Devour + 2 5.0 APS Characters

Maelael - Heavens Tear

So since I posted this in a QQ thread in general, and I dunno why I thought I'd get valuable responses there...I'll ask here:


With devour+axe damage, cutting the Phys def by 50%: Theoretically, in a squad with 2 5.0 Sin/BMs, would the barb then be equal to another 5.0 Sin/BM?


The reason I ask, is I'd be willing to crack out my Vit Barb and level him to 100 if so. Of course I realize APS + Going Kitty to Devour is better, but I'd like to see 25k+ hp on my Barb.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So since I posted this in a QQ thread in general, and I dunno why I thought I'd get valuable responses there...I'll ask here:


With devour+axe damage, cutting the Phys def by 50%: Theoretically, in a squad with 2 5.0 Sin/BMs, would the barb then be equal to another 5.0 Sin/BM?


The reason I ask, is I'd be willing to crack out my Vit Barb and level him to 100 if so. Of course I realize APS + Going Kitty to Devour is better, but I'd like to see 25k+ hp on my Barb.

Depends on how good the 2 5.0s are geared. If they are both +10 or higher weapons (mainly sin +12) then by far. It also depends on who you are replacing it with. We had a 5.0 sage archer with +7 deicides go on his VIT barb that has +5 tt99 green axes and we did runs faster. I'm a +12 G15 sin with 20 atk lvl -int and the other APS was +10 5.0 bm.

In general with a good 2-3 APS, the rest of the squad can be whoever and it will not really effect squad time much. A 5.0 to vit barb wouldn't do much in our situation or if he went on a veno for amp or etc etc.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear

This depends on the defense of the mob/boss in question, but nearly all endgame bosses have a physical defense of somewhere around 2150, though some have more (demonic sovereign in nirvana at 3306) and some have less (3-3 armageddon at 1624).

If we look at this formula:

pwi wiki wrote:

physical reduction% = physical defense / ( ( 40 * attacker level ) + physical defense - 25 )

A boss would normally reduce physical damage from a level 100 character by 2150/((40*100)+2150-25) = 35%.

With devour this would be 1075/((40*100)+1075-25) = 21%.

which means their damage gets increased from 65% total to 79% total, which is a 21,5% increase. You'd need to increase both their damages by roughly 50% to make your debuff equal to that of another APSer.

In a squad of 5 APSers + you this would be the case though, as 5 * 121,5% = 607,5%.

Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver

I do not konw the math, however I have ran a squad wth sin,bm, and a barb. It was fast enough for me to feel like it was ok as we were doing runs in 6-7 mins. The barb was in tiger form the entire time and I assume he had an awesome genie for chi and debuff adds.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

The OMGAPS! people out there don't seem to understand how important a debuff is. When I join a vana squad as a sin or a demon HF BM and find a squad full of sins, I always suggest getting a veno or barb for the debuff. Even a cleric (losing 20 seconds on a run is fine when clerics make the runs so laidback, lol). 9 time out of 10 I hear "No, another sin is better."

As Nowitsawn pointed out a 50% physical debuff is about a 30% increase in damage. That then can be multiplied by other debuffs like tangling mire, amp damage, extreme poison, or HF.

This isn't exactly how the math works but, lets say 6 sins each do 100% of their damage with no amps/debuffs, so 600% dmg right? Someone EPs and you have 6 people doing 120% of their damage so 6 x 120%= 720%... add amp, HF, the works and you can get everyone doing roughly 750% their normal damage output, which is how millions of hp drop of a [?] boss so fast. Physical debuff on a genie other than tangling mire is pretty rare to find, and Devour's physical debuff stacks with TM so you are looking at stacking debuffs that they wouldn't get without you (assuming no veno, cleric, BM...).

What you are asking is 3 sins doing 100% dmg better than 2 sins and a barb that is amping them 30% and its hard to say because it depends on other debuffs. Add a permanent EP and you have 360% dmg with 3 sins vs 312% dmg with 2sins/barb. Overall, I'd say its not equal until you get 4 sins/bms and a barb.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Yea, thats what I was afraid of, needing more than 2 5.0s making it worth it. I keep forgetting about the damage calcs on the wiki.

I'm already running 6-10 minute 3-4 mans with 2-3 5.0s and Veno preferred. Honestly 3 5.0 +10-12's cream through the place pretty damn fast. Eh, at least its food for thought when dragging friends and fac mates through Nirvana.

I just haven't the foggiest clue what to do with my damn Barb if I level him past 92.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Even a cleric (losing 20 seconds on a run is fine when clerics make the runs so laidback, lol).

And we even have a 40% p.def debuff (at sage/demon) which doesn't stack with that of a barb, so go figure b:chuckle

Mythsoul - Heavens Tear

Stack mire with devour.. -91% pdef =P

Zanryu - Lothranis

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And we even have a 40% p.def debuff (at sage/demon) which doesn't stack with that of a barb, so go figure b:chuckle

It are 35%!