Already an APS, but now: Vit vs Dmg?

2

Comments

  • Kubu - Momaganon
    Kubu - Momaganon Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Bashmaster - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Was too lazy to quote, but seriously, since when can aps barbs solo better than aps bms? i think never. Hell i was soloing eden before i was even 3.33 (thats when i was always charmed though >_>), with full buffs ofc.

    Since they usually have more HP at earlier stage of gear quality and/or refines - I think that's what he meant
  • Hexalot - Dreamweaver
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Gnip - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I run vanas with my sin r9 and I prefer to have a tank in squad. Guess running 5-6 minute runs with no pots or charm ticks is fail nowadays. b:chuckle

    What a ridiculous comment.

    Hey newsflash... 99.9% of the time in Vana your R9 Sin IS the tank. Or are you saying that some claw or Vit Barb in squad actually takes and keeps aggro from you (and in that case the only "fail" is your ability to play a Sin since you need a tank to shield you) during 6 minute Vana runs ? b:bye
  • Blaxton - Raging Tide
    Blaxton - Raging Tide Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    kububububu wrote: »
    Okay then, I'll continue with my barb, I'll try to farm as much money as I can and If I don't feel like investing more into barb's gear I'll start a sin alt. On the other account, just for plain fun. But for now, as 5.0 is fresh for me I have so much stuff to do ;)
    Sure I can't do everything, sure I can't be as good DD as Sins - but... I can still do alot and have fun and that's what I'm gonna do : D
    And yeah, no restatting, not worth it at all ;)
    Maybe I'll try to farm for Pan Gu tome and then pass it to Sin... or something : )

    Btw: What would be needed for me to duo FC with cleric?
    I suppouse 90lv Lionheart axes with zerk & demon tiger form might be useful, right? ;d

    Farming a Pan Gu is a great idea. Not only can you pass it to sin if you decide to create one, but it'd let you get rid of Ashura's Ornaments and get some nice Magic Def ones if you keep your barb at 5.0. :)

    The speed increase from Demon True Form will really help with pulls. Calloused Lionheart Hatchets are great. Nice vit add and sac strike is awesome if it goes off on Sunder and/or Arma. Some alternatives would be Pan Gu's Giant Axe or Anchor of Chaos for even more hp for the pulls.

    Also ToP on your fairy will boost your Arma damage some, if you plan to use it. AD and/or Solid Shield are good defensive skills to have ready as well. Should be pretty simple with a cleric.
  • Bashmaster - Raging Tide
    Bashmaster - Raging Tide Posts: 353 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Also ima point out, sage barb > aps barb in nirvana >_>.... and sage barb > sage amp veno in nirvana, people just refuse to test it. Barb can spam sage devour if they have it, plus can debuff the nonhfable bosses, AND if a bm in the squad has the tt99 pole that ca purify teh 2nd boss you're all set. I ran with a sage barb once, was significantly faster than running with a veno sage amp or not.
  • Blaxton - Raging Tide
    Blaxton - Raging Tide Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Bashmaster - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Also ima point out, sage barb > aps barb in nirvana >_>.... and sage barb > sage amp veno in nirvana, people just refuse to test it. Barb can spam sage devour if they have it, plus can debuff the nonhfable bosses, AND if a bm in the squad has the tt99 pole that ca purify teh 2nd boss you're all set. I ran with a sage barb once, was significantly faster than running with a veno sage amp or not.

    Any barb can spam level 10+ devour. They have the same physical defense reduction. Even an aps barb can spam it, just ask them to use that instead of claws if you want. Demon even lasts 15 seconds, so unless whoever is tanking wants the -15 attack levels as often as possible, demon barbs don't need to spam it as much as level 10 or sage and should have plenty of chi to keep using it again just before it wears off.

    The benefit of a sage barb is if they have sage Strength of the Titans. If no one uses crit buffs, however, a demon barb can give everyone 5% more crit for 1 minute. Of course, sage Titans is more consistent... Oh and they can send you off with 30 more minutes of increased hp if they have sage BKI. xD
  • Kubu - Momaganon
    Kubu - Momaganon Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Blaxton - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Farming a Pan Gu is a great idea. Not only can you pass it to sin if you decide to create one, but it'd let you get rid of Ashura's Ornaments and get some nice Magic Def ones if you keep your barb at 5.0. :)

    The speed increase from Demon True Form will really help with pulls. Calloused Lionheart Hatchets are great. Nice vit add and sac strike is awesome if it goes off on Sunder and/or Arma. Some alternatives would be Pan Gu's Giant Axe or Anchor of Chaos for even more hp for the pulls.

    Also ToP on your fairy will boost your Arma damage some, if you plan to use it. AD and/or Solid Shield are good defensive skills to have ready as well. Should be pretty simple with a cleric.

    Anchor seems cheaper than Calloused and idk how much Frostcovered Sign in my serv.
    Cheaper = better tho

    I'll try with lv70 axes first ; )
  • Blaxton - Raging Tide
    Blaxton - Raging Tide Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Kubu - Momaganon wrote: »
    Anchor seems cheaper than Calloused and idk how much Frostcovered Sign in my serv.
    Cheaper = better tho

    I'll try with lv70 axes first ; )


    I've seen some 100+ barbs with Calamities on my server. If it works out, then why not? Good Luck :)
  • Asgardeus - Sanctuary
    Asgardeus - Sanctuary Posts: 551 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Bashmaster - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Also ima point out, sage barb > aps barb in nirvana >_>.... and sage barb > sage amp veno in nirvana, people just refuse to test it. Barb can spam sage devour if they have it, plus can debuff the nonhfable bosses, AND if a bm in the squad has the tt99 pole that ca purify teh 2nd boss you're all set. I ran with a sage barb once, was significantly faster than running with a veno sage amp or not.

    You do realize that a sage veno got 40% phy def reduction? lol
    Add amp and pet to the calculation and I highly doubt the barb will win b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ZoracGallant - Raging Tide
    ZoracGallant - Raging Tide Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Blaxton - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Any barb can spam level 10+ devour. They have the same physical defense reduction. Even an aps barb can spam it, just ask them to use that instead of claws if you want. Demon even lasts 15 seconds, so unless whoever is tanking wants the -15 attack levels as often as possible, demon barbs don't need to spam it as much as level 10 or sage and should have plenty of chi to keep using it again just before it wears off.

    The benefit of a sage barb is if they have sage Strength of the Titans. If no one uses crit buffs, however, a demon barb can give everyone 5% more crit for 1 minute. Of course, sage Titans is more consistent... Oh and they can send you off with 30 more minutes of increased hp if they have sage BKI. xD

    Just so you know most nonpowerlvled sins hate Barbs that spam the barb crit buffs because it actually lowers a sin's crit rate if they are a sin that knows how to play there class. I have an 83% crit rate on my sage sin, if a barb spams his buff I have a 38% rate, so please please don't spam buff.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Want to solve alot of my problems? On your computer Click - Start - now click - Run - now type - cmd - now type - format c: - If you are using Windows Vista or 7 please be sure you run as administrator.
  • Blaxton - Raging Tide
    Blaxton - Raging Tide Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    ZoracGallant - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Just so you know most nonpowerlvled sins hate Barbs that spam the barb crit buffs because it actually lowers a sin's crit rate if they are a sin that knows how to play there class. I have an 83% crit rate on my sage sin, if a barb spams his buff I have a 38% rate, so please please don't spam buff.

    I said if no one uses crit buffs. Personally, I'd always ask if anyone in the squad uses crit buffs before using demon Titans immediately prior to the boss. Demon Bestial Onslaught is better for me anyway.

    Also could do something like... barb runs up, uses Devour, Sin(s) spark then Power Dash, barb uses Titans, then goes back to devouring/apsing whatever. Then Power Dash will not be blocked, and everyone else has increased crit. -Shrug- Takes some timing and communication, though. xD
  • Kubu - Momaganon
    Kubu - Momaganon Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    ZoracGallant - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Just so you know most nonpowerlvled sins hate Barbs that spam the barb crit buffs because it actually lowers a sin's crit rate if they are a sin that knows how to play there class. I have an 83% crit rate on my sage sin, if a barb spams his buff I have a 38% rate, so please please don't spam buff.


    Constant 83% crit? How?
  • Blaxton - Raging Tide
    Blaxton - Raging Tide Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Kubu - Momaganon wrote: »
    Constant 83% crit? How?

    Power Dash
  • SashaGray - Heavens Tear
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Bashmaster - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Also ima point out, sage barb > aps barb in nirvana >_>.... and sage barb > sage amp veno in nirvana, people just refuse to test it. Barb can spam sage devour if they have it, plus can debuff the nonhfable bosses, AND if a bm in the squad has the tt99 pole that ca purify teh 2nd boss you're all set. I ran with a sage barb once, was significantly faster than running with a veno sage amp or not.

    Sage devour is a 50% pdef debuff
    sage ironwood is 40% pdef debuff

    the highest pdef boss in nirvana gets a 43% physical damage reduction

    amp is damage times 1.3 for 20 of 30 seconds. an.d you dont have to wait for the stupid pole to proc.

    game mechanics dictate the squad will do more damage with a veno in squad. barbs can buff outside or at open. venos need to be there to amp.

    saying your squad was faster with a sage non-aps barb than with a sage veno means you are omitting details so you can make a point. while if all the details were provided, your arguement would be invalid
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ZoracGallant - Raging Tide
    ZoracGallant - Raging Tide Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Blaxton - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I said if no one uses crit buffs. Personally, I'd always ask if anyone in the squad uses crit buffs before using demon Titans immediately prior to the boss. Demon Bestial Onslaught is better for me anyway.

    Also could do something like... barb runs up, uses Devour, Sin(s) spark then Power Dash, barb uses Titans, then goes back to devouring/apsing whatever. Then Power Dash will not be blocked, and everyone else has increased crit. -Shrug- Takes some timing and communication, though. xD

    Yes done that way it's fine, but most of the time (had this in a warsong run the other day too) the barb just keeps hitting it even in the middle of the boss and I go from seeing 4/5 hits as crits to 2/5 being crits. And to those that will say aww 2 less crits, well that's 2 less crits per second since I am 5 aps, not to mention that a sins crits do more than just double damage because of other buffs.

    But yeah that barb buff is nice for mag classes and pretty much any class other than sin b:surrender

    But it's ok we know everyone deep down hates sin b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Want to solve alot of my problems? On your computer Click - Start - now click - Run - now type - cmd - now type - format c: - If you are using Windows Vista or 7 please be sure you run as administrator.
  • Blaxton - Raging Tide
    Blaxton - Raging Tide Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    ZoracGallant - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Yes done that way it's fine, but most of the time (had this in a warsong run the other day too) the barb just keeps hitting it even in the middle of the boss and I go from seeing 4/5 hits as crits to 2/5 being crits. And to those that will say aww 2 less crits, well that's 2 less crits per second since I am 5 aps, not to mention that a sins crits do more than just double damage because of other buffs.

    But yeah that barb buff is nice for mag classes and pretty much any class other than sin b:surrender

    But it's ok we know everyone deep down hates sin b:chuckle



    That sucks.
    It's sad when people don't understand their own class skills and how they can affect others in their squad. b:surrender

    As much as I hate sins, I do everything with one since my best friend plays a sin. b:chuckle We have a lot of fun.
  • Gnip - Raging Tide
    Gnip - Raging Tide Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    What a ridiculous comment.

    Hey newsflash... 99.9% of the time in Vana your R9 Sin IS the tank. Or are you saying that some claw or Vit Barb in squad actually takes and keeps aggro from you (and in that case the only "fail" is your ability to play a Sin since you need a tank to shield you) during 6 minute Vana runs ? b:bye

    Are you stupid? Who is talking about tanking? If you do not understand my comments please control yourself and don't spout nonsense thanx
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    So, having read the comments in here, I've come to the conclusion that Barbs are now 100% useless in Nirvana. APS is fail on a barb. And Barbs are more or less useless in everything else, as well.

    Soooo... Anything else we should all know about Barbs?

    Do they even pull cata in TW anymore, or do Archers do that now?
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Oneji - Heavens Tear
    Oneji - Heavens Tear Posts: 310 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    dur..
  • ResMePls - Heavens Tear
    ResMePls - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,349 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Oneji - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    dur..

    I saw that >->....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]I know what your thinking.
  • Kubu - Momaganon
    Kubu - Momaganon Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Barbs aren't useless.
    Not every Vana squad is super-duper-OP squad.
    Not all vana squads have all 5.0 BMs and Sins.
    They can still run BHs, TTs and everything else.

    So what a "FAIL" squad will do Vana in 3 minutes more?
    Or takes longer to farm TT?
    NOT THAT MUCH LONGER : )
    Most of You think of terms of high-end gear and refines - but not everyone has that.
    In fact: most ppl does not.
    Many 4.0 still needs to farm their vana pants for example - welcome 5.0 Barb here!
    5.0 barb is not meant to be compared with 5.0 Sin who has dagger +12 etc.

    Is it really in Your servers like that? I mean: You're either 5.0 bm/sin (for farming) or nothing?
    There's no place for players who has yet to become 5.0 and still want to do something?

    Yeah, If you're making a new char and You mean it for farming - go with Sin or Bm.

    But I made my char some time ago. I made it for tanking. Didn't know anything about that 5.0 stuff these days etc.
    While playing it I learned that it might be fun to be APS, to do more than being just a meat-shield - and I found it fun. I doubt If I'd be playing still If not APS.
    It revealed to me new aspects of the game (we can argue if it's good aspect tho).

    Btw: I never intended to be the best, the best tank, the best APS or whatever.
    And You know what? I like the looks of barb ;D So damn, If I ever have some nice money farmed I'll make a Sin just to check it out. Or put it all to refine my barbie ;d
    Doesn't really metter.

    Not everything depends on economic aspect.
  • Deago - Lost City
    Deago - Lost City Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    So, having read the comments in here, I've come to the conclusion that Barbs are now 100% useless in Nirvana. APS is fail on a barb. And Barbs are more or less useless in everything else, as well.

    Soooo... Anything else we should all know about Barbs?

    Do they even pull cata in TW anymore, or do Archers do that now?

    So if you think barbs are fail from the posts other have made I would like to inform you that barbs still play a tank role in the game and always will since they have high vit and defenses. But I must also add not every barb that goes claw are fail, to most yes it seems to be the fail thing to do but most of us play for fun and everyone has i different playing style. I chose my barb cause i like being the meat shield (when we were in great need of them) since i have made my barb i have come across very different playing styles with this class. Aps was one of these i was not rerolling to become aps when i can restat.

    As i did restat I have 3k less hp then when i wasnt but i can also solo more for myself and thats why i did it. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH CHANGING YOUR CLASS TO HOW YOU WANNA PLAY. And yes barbs still pull cata and still tank just depends on what your doing. Everyone who says we are fail, are the ones who are fail there is no wrong way to play your class. -.-
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Nothing is true. Everything is Permitted.
    Ezio Auditore
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    So, having read the comments in here, I've come to the conclusion that Barbs are now 100% useless in Nirvana. APS is fail on a barb. And Barbs are more or less useless in everything else, as well.

    Soooo... Anything else we should all know about Barbs?

    Do they even pull cata in TW anymore, or do Archers do that now?

    You are completely wrong.

    As for the OP's question. If you are going to solo stuff go HP, and if you are duo'ing and someone else is tanking go damage. You need to get to about 15k buffed to be comfortable working on other things.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Asone - Raging Tide
    Asone - Raging Tide Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    So, having read the comments in here, I've come to the conclusion that Barbs are now 100% useless in Nirvana. APS is fail on a barb. And Barbs are more or less useless in everything else, as well.

    Soooo... Anything else we should all know about Barbs?

    Do they even pull cata in TW anymore, or do Archers do that now?



    Well no, barbs are definitely not fail. It's not so much the class as it is the people that know how to play it well (I've stated something similar about barbs in this thread ).

    But in my option an aps barb is not something I would build. It wouldn't hold my interest for long. All that is done half the time is hitting with claws when barbs have all these other skills you could combine to make even more use of damage be it demon or sage.

    Also, with the newest update coming into effect soon who knows what else could be useful?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Retired PWI veteran. 06/26/2010-2014.
  • Bashmaster - Raging Tide
    Bashmaster - Raging Tide Posts: 353 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Asgardeus - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You do realize that a sage veno got 40% phy def reduction? lol
    Add amp and pet to the calculation and I highly doubt the barb will win b:surrender

    run and see the difference
  • Asgardeus - Sanctuary
    Asgardeus - Sanctuary Posts: 551 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Bashmaster - Raging Tide wrote: »
    run and see the difference

    Oh I run with a sage barb quite often. And I can tell you we are faster with a constant 40% phy def debuff and amp on the bosses that can be amped. lol

    Unless ofc, that sage barb comes as his aps bm, which speeds up the run by quite a good deal more.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Sagek - Sanctuary
    Sagek - Sanctuary Posts: 1,156 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    So, having read the comments in here, I've come to the conclusion that Barbs are now 100% useless in Nirvana. APS is fail on a barb. And Barbs are more or less useless in everything else, as well.

    Soooo... Anything else we should all know about Barbs?

    Do they even pull cata in TW anymore, or do Archers do that now?

    YAY Archer cata pullers!!! b:pleased

    I want 2 b:nosebleed
  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Lol, archer cata pullers...
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • Rickioo - Archosaur
    Rickioo - Archosaur Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    http://www.pwcalc.com/5ec1356a17e17b9c

    theres a build for you solo 3-1 2-3 last boss can still tank delta like a tank can, 17.7k hp in tiger and **** in nirvny runs

    if you dont have the money to make a good aps barb better roll a BM then you wont look like fool when you die as much a barb dies then everyone rises eyebrows and sadly says stupid fail barb.
    Started Playing Early June Of 2005 Back In The Very First Beta In Perfect World History

    The True Old School b:cool
  • Massad - Harshlands
    Massad - Harshlands Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    kububububu wrote: »
    Hello,
    I finally achieved 5.0 with my Barb.
    Now I'm considering improving my hp with taking some dmg off.
    Atm most of my equipment won't change ever - so maybe a restat?
    I could save some points from DEX and STR and put them into VIT.

    Before restat I have 10k hp and after it would be 12k

    Is it worth it to loose that dmg? it shouldn't be an issue while I can still perma-spark in my TT runs, but with 2k hp more I can try to kill Behe and Steel in 3-1 for example ;)

    Links to both versions:

    My build:
    http://pwcalc.com/9afe9351f32760e2

    The idea:
    http://pwcalc.com/5c9e5f9bfb1417e9

    What do You think?

    I think this is what your barb should like... give or take with some more tweaking from the experts....

    http://pwcalc.com/2106989797a55b4f

    4 aps base 47 att lvl 13k+hp and more than 2700+ more physical attack and a 3% more higher crit rate

    Again a lil bit more tweaking should make it about right I just threw that together with what you already hadb:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Other names include but not limited to LOKl_ _ClRCE_, _AnGeal_
  • Aubree - Dreamweaver
    Aubree - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,868 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Massad - Harshlands wrote: »
    I think this is what your barb should like... give or take with some more tweaking from the experts....

    http://pwcalc.com/2106989797a55b4f

    LOLOLOL thats a bm

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