How would you rather pwi get funded?

Icehart - Lost City

Since everyone is so hateful over the gold prices what should pwi do instead? monthly fee? in-game ads?

Aquyla - Heavens Tear

why would they go with monthly fees? i mean statistically f2p games earn more than p2p games. more and more p2p games are becoming f2p nowadays.
and why would pwi care if gold prices are going up? as long as players charge they won't care. and if you guys really have problems with gold prices you can always buy yourself your gold. b:bye

Icehart - Lost City

Aquyla - Heavens Tear wrote: »

why would they go with monthly fees? i mean statistically f2p earn more than p2p games. more and more p2p games are becoming f2p nowadays.
and why would care if gold prices are going up? as long as players charge they won't care. and if you guys really have problems with gold prices you can always buy yourself your gold. b:bye

I'm with you honestly, I can't understand the constant complaining cashshoppers are more powerful then everyone else. They keep the damn game running.

Segreta - Sanctuary

Why players keep thinking that PWE as anything to do with gold prices?
Surem,things like having many stuff on sale makes gold prices going up,but in the very end its the player's doing.

_Ghoul_ - Lost City

before this whole aps sht started and my barb was somewhat usefull i was maybe cash shopping 50 gold montly.

after when my class was out of the whole picture i said **** it i mean i am not gona destroy my class for some puny claw and decided to get the best armor ingame to tank the freaking damage. in a few days i will we +10 my gear and in a few month i we +12
so ty you farming apsing for making me use my money.


not everyone started with money some off us just did to compete without using fist.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Either way, we pay.

put that on a bumper sticker

Ikarium - Dreamweaver

Icehart - Lost City wrote: »

in-game ads?

OMG no. Just no.
Look at how youtube used to be. Look at youtube now. b:angry
I don't want that sort of thing in any variation in my MMO's please.

LadySam - Raging Tide

Make the game p2p so i`ll be able to quit it b:chuckle

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary

LadySam - Raging Tide wrote: »

Make the game p2p so i`ll be able to quit it b:chuckle

+1 lol

OontzOontz - Dreamweaver

It should be pack based. 99% will be tokens and 0.001% chance to play for 1 day.

MystieMoon - Dreamweaver

Nice to see after years of complaining, no one has actual constructive criticism to say b:chuckle

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Nothing in life is free, but I don't really have a problem with the way it's funded now. I just wish they would ease up on the power-obtaining sales. Other than that though, everything is available for free, it just takes a lot longer.

Bubbles - Morai

MystieMoon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Nice to see after years of complaining, no one has actual constructive criticism to say b:chuckle

It's pointless to make decent suggestions if the devs don't understand us.
If they don't listen to their target audience in China, what makes you think we'll be any different....

HadesHound - Raging Tide

Bubbles - Lothranis wrote: »

If they don't listen to their target audience in China, what makes you think we'll be any different....

There target audience is the ones who buy the Zen. And they DO listen. At least to what matters most business-wise. They listen by paying attention to what id bought in the boutque, and elsewhere, and making changes that would be most appealing to those who buy from the boutique, so that the cash keeps flowing in.

I for one do not feel I have any need to gripe. If I thought it not good, I would play something different.

Mitachi - Dreamweaver

I'd rather pay a monthly fee to a game that fixes bugs etc, most p2p games i know fix bugs and stuff cause they know they'll lose all their money if they don't

If i don't make sense sorry its 4amb:surrender

Kinjeto - Raging Tide

I was adament to post this but I've been beta testing the **** out of a really NICE SKILLFUL game called Tribes Ascend recently I like how they look at things...

It cost me 30 AUD and THAT IS ALL IT COST ME NOT LIKE PW...

But hey, I *would* have no trouble continue to pay them and even support them because they BALANCE THE F@#$ OUT OF THEIR GAME (*cough* 5 APS is really balanced. *cough*)

Why make the game free-to-play?

1. So our success depends upon the gameplay itself (more than marketing).
Players have a lot of gaming choices. Convincing people to pay $50, $30, or even $20 for a title requires a very large marketing budget and even then there is no guarantee that people will buy. You recognize "Tribes" as a great brand, and we recognize "Tribes" as great brand, but the majority of today's gamers do not necessarily recognize the Tribes franchise. We'd honestly rather put more of our resources on game development and ongoing updates versus a huge marketing campaign. At the same time our Dev Team is working incredibly hard on the title and we DO want a large number of people to become aware of the game, to try the game, and hopefully enjoy the game for many years. We bought the franchise because we think the gameplay deserves a much larger audience than it's ever found before. And we believe the most effective way to build a large community is a fun & balanced core game, with strong word-of-mouth combined with a low barrier of entry. In terms of low barrier of entry it is simply hard to beat "FREE". By offering a AAA game as free-to-play we'll have the largest number of people exposed to the game and trying the game. After that the game can succeed or fail on its own merits.

2. We're in this for the long-term.... And, we like to iterate along the way.
If you are looking for a game that will remain exactly the same from Open Beta for the next few years, Tribes: Ascend will likely not be for you. As a studio we experiment and innovate and we think the best games are the results of constant iteration and update. In fact, for us launching the game is more like the beginning than the end. But constant updates require a development team well past launch. And maintaining that development team means continued revenue from the game to pay their salaries. Based on Global Agenda, and other F2P games, we have seen that a meaningful percentage of players will gladly pay for optional items and services if they enjoy the game. We've also seen that the majority of players may never spend a dime. And that is fine. Because those paying players fund ongoing updates and support for the entire population. So, we believe this model gives us the best opportunity to grow both the game and the community over time; by players who pay only when they choose to.

3. Free and Balanced.
Two years ago I don't think you could have found a Hi-Rez employee playing a free-to-play game. The games we tried were too grindy, or too old-looking, or too 'pay2win' to too something-else-bad. But the times they are changing. There are now free-to-play games where the gameplay is not unbalanced by purchases, including, but definitely not limited to, our own Global Agenda. With Tribes: Ascend we intend to support balanced and very competitive gameplay while also supporting micro-transactions.

Can I 'pay-2-win'?

No. Even as a 'free-to-play' game our general philosophy is to make all gameplay affecting items and loadouts earnable thru gameplay.

However we will allow players a path to earn loadouts and items more quickly by spending their money rather than their time. And we will offer a variety of cosmetic/prestige items for sale that do not affect game balance.

We will not be using the same exact system as Global Agenda, but you can see that general philosophy in place within Global Agenda. When speaking with IGN we described our intent to have load-outs earnable thru gameplay or purchasable, but to also maintain balance between all the load-outs. The writer found that analogous to League of Legends in that their champions are earn-able or purchasable but without any power discrepancy between the free ones, earned ones, or bought ones. And it is a model/game that has been embraced by the e-sports/competitive community. The writer's analogy is fitting but only goes so far since the Tribes: Ascend gameplay is so different.

Just my two cents on HOW GAMING SHOULD BE DONE.

PW I don't see you taking notes, bro. b:laugh
Here is my analysis of how Malaysia milks the cow for all its worth which takes forever making Rank 9 nigh impossible. Same game, Different bullcrap.

The Rank 9 in Perfect World Malaysia is next to (denied to players) impossible to get, but Rank 8 seems plausible possible only after buying the stupid wedding candy (3600 RM -- someone quoted this to me in my guild)

This demonstrates that PW is just 'another cash cow company' and has abhorred business practices.
No surprise there that is usually what most asianatic MMOs are. About the only one I've seen that doesn't use these practices is Gunz The Duel run by Meint Entertainment or Net Marble? I am not sure if its specifically Net Marble though???.

I am very solidly hoping that this pay to playwin club cover charge will die in obscurity and by fire as new games like Guild Wars 2, Tribes Ascend and Team Fortress 2 demonstrate, objectify and show that "free" to play (as in beer to party, not charge you for every action you do) is the way of the future.

Fun making money? How about losing customers as I tell all my friends (who are gamers) and then they tell their friends (who are gamers) and then these people write on forums all over the net that it is just 'another money-grabbing MMO corporation'

Suppose this is why more people trust names like Valve Software, Activision Blizzard, Inc (their official name) and Tripwire Interactive. Who actually give-a-****-about-their-customers and don't want them to have a bad experience, build better customer service tools, patch things really fast, balance their games fairly fast (once again as I've said in one previous post using Steam) but that is fine PW you just keep trying, when you get to 'a better standard call' cause frankly I don't care and you can go and jump off the deep end.

These companies/corporations know one thing. One wrong word and that is it. Albeit I am sure the Wow phenomenon let alone the Diablo 3/ Guild Wars 2 phenomenon will blow the pants off PW.

But that is fine PW you just keep doing you're acquisition of titles. Life will roll on and on. Same old business model, Jeez get a clue we're in 2011, where free-to-play isn't 2005 pay-to-win.

I commend you for doing the Core Connect idea and the achievement idea. But you've got to start GETTING SOME GOD DARN BACKBONE get some real perspective about what is being done in the "A happy customer is likely to spend more" but not "An unhappy customer is likely to know when he/she smells a used car saleman and tells their friends".

I do also commend you for bring the prices down on the platinum charms and keeping them in the cash shop versus your distant cousin PW MY (although its a sub-company of the PW Franchise) PW is a direct line to China. Still. MY is doing somethings better, which I don't have time to write about here. I am off-to-play Tribes Ascend and have REAL FUN.

Second that, get some balls, then come talk to me.

CRYSTY_III - Sanctuary

Icehart - Lost City wrote: »

Since everyone is so hateful over the gold prices what should pwi do instead? monthly fee? in-game ads?

You have nigthmares lol ? you cant sleep the nights and you are very worried about a company incomings ? They have managers ,they know what is best for them.
Unless you work for PWE and you need new ideas lol which i wont give you some unless you pay me b:laugh

Are you worried about the world economic crisis too? Or why the bees are dissapearing ? Or if the world will end in 2012 hit by a meteorite or swallowed by a blackhole ?
You cant do to much , you dont have the power to change the world or pwe funds
Relax and play b:bye

Renza - Raging Tide

Icehart - Lost City wrote: »

Since everyone is so hateful over the gold prices what should pwi do instead? monthly fee? in-game ads?

As someone said, PWE has nothing to do with gold prices, what they do have though, is the ability to not have completely bollocked the game up with never ending pack sales and then insanely cheap rep sales for some easy cash, because PWE already knew that R8 was basically just a bit better then TT99 so do you know what they thought? since people don't get R8 because it's to hard (true story), lets just sell the mofos in the cash stop totalling at 72 gold!

Anyway..., for a F2P game to make money, they DON'T have to sell the ability to pay for power...in the most ludicrous and insanely stupidiest way possible by making the gap between f2p players and crazy cash shoppers so huge, that it's no longer funny, I'm a "f2p" player as I stopped cash shopping in 2009 just before ani packs came out, I bought charms, herc/nix, fash, some mounts, flyers, dolls, basically all the stuff that didn't give some form of pay for insane power so you can "lol1shot" everyone that doesn't do the same, then PWE got out of hand and did the trade for more people playing the game, into a lot less people now playing the game, shortening the life of the game and making as much cash as possible, hell it's "worked", but it didn't half **** off god knows how many people into quiting.

Kinjeto - Raging Tide

Renza - Raging Tide wrote: »

As someone said, PWE has nothing to do with gold prices, what they do have though, is the ability to not have completely bollocked the game up with never ending pack sales and then insanely cheap rep sales for some easy cash, because PWE already knew that R8 was basically just a bit better then TT99 so do you know what they thought? since people don't get R8 because it's to hard (true story), lets just sell the mofos in the cash stop totalling at 72 gold!

Anyway..., for a F2P game to make money, they DON'T have to sell the ability to pay for power...in the most ludicrous and insanely stupidiest way possible by making the gap between f2p players and crazy cash shoppers so huge, that it's no longer funny, I'm a "f2p" player as I stopped cash shopping in 2009 just before ani packs came out, I bought charms, herc/nix, fash, some mounts, flyers, dolls, basically all the stuff that didn't give some form of pay for insane power so you can "lol1shot" everyone that doesn't do the same, then PWE got out of hand and did the trade for more people playing the game, into a lot less people now playing the game, shortening the life of the game and making as much cash as possible, hell it's "worked", but it didn't half **** off god knows how many people into quiting.

Yeah and you still want to keep that nice even keel gap where people don't feel ripped off, amirite?

Also the feeling of "Oh jeez I have to start a new character to make in-game currency cause 5 APS is OP and is the only real way to farm / power level other people and make coin." amirite?"

Take for example Team Fortress 2. Sure they sell hats. Sure they have a small market with the most valuable item being the Ear buds (ear headphones) but people are having fun and more importantly in some cases people are "making money out of it"

Renza - Raging Tide

Kinjeto - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yeah and you still want to keep that nice even keel gap where people don't feel ripped off, amirite?

Also the feeling of "Oh jeez I have to start a new character to make in-game currency cause 5 APS is OP and is the only real way to farm / power level other people and make coin." amirite?"

Take for example Team Fortress 2. Sure they sell hats. Sure they have a small market with the most valuable item being the Ear buds (ear headphones) but people are having fun and more importantly in some cases people are "making money out of it"

Not a clue what you're talking about, all I'll say is I haven't got any aps freak character, granted I had made a sin, that was when the RT expansion came out, left it in 5x levels, I played the game I wanted to play it, not the way PWE demands me to play it with either jumping the wagon onto the aps train or forking out all my cash which they don't even slightly deserve.

Kinjeto - Raging Tide

So to quote TF2 as being the best example of 'free' to play and what's good:

- The game costs about 20 USD but it is also FREE.

- The private server issue (which I am sure some PW players have tried at some point or another) was *FIXED* by releasing dedicated servers for TF2 or the Steam client. All the in-game items work on dedicated servers as long as long as you can log into Steam (might even work offline though -- not sure)

- The Pay to Win was solved by making the items randomly drop in game and every gameplay item had some sort of positive and some sort of negative effect. They had set items. But if anything is visualized by said 'community' to imbalanced then it quickly gets patched, in fact it the game gets fixed sometimes tri-monthly.

- The only real items of value are the scraps of metal used to craft hats. You can buy hats as well but its purely a cosmetic thing and DOES NOT impact on gameplay.

- They like PW have events relating to Halloween / Christmas but once again the items are cosmetic.

- More recently TF2 have put in a demo recording function into a play back recording feature in the engine it self (The COD series did this as well) but demo recording has been around for a while still TF2 turned it into a suite.

- Like PW, Valve also have sales on other games. But they don't rely on the sales just to get them by.

- Valve encouraged the community to 'make their own editions' in the way of weapons as well as having a beta test that players can participate in. PW however doesn't do this. They limit the Rank 9 to competition servers (as demonstrated in the Perfect World International Championship) and to their own private beta test server. Which we can't touch.

- The "community" issue was on of the first problems solved in around 2004~2005 with the Introduction of the Steam Friends service. Where people can have an account, post screenshots and leave messages for another players as well as view other people's achievements if the game on Steam supported achievements. Core Connect - is PWI's recent edition to patch up anything remotely friend like or community-like and is still probably a development in progress. PW as a company has two game on Steam works (Forsaken World & Rusty Hearts).

If anyone feels free add more points here that Valve are doing right and PW are doing wrong. Go at it or correct me where I've made errors about either company. Constructively thanks.

_Ghoul_ - Lost City

Renza - Raging Tide wrote: »

As someone said, PWE has nothing to do with gold prices, what they do have though, is the ability to not have completely bollocked the game up with never ending pack sales and then insanely cheap rep sales for some easy cash, because PWE already knew that R8 was basically just a bit better then TT99 so do you know what they thought? since people don't get R8 because it's to hard (true story), lets just sell the mofos in the cash stop totalling at 72 gold!

Anyway..., for a F2P game to make money, they DON'T have to sell the ability to pay for power...in the most ludicrous and insanely stupidiest way possible by making the gap between f2p players and crazy cash shoppers so huge, that it's no longer funny, I'm a "f2p" player as I stopped cash shopping in 2009 just before ani packs came out, I bought charms, herc/nix, fash, some mounts, flyers, dolls, basically all the stuff that didn't give some form of pay for insane power so you can "lol1shot" everyone that doesn't do the same, then PWE got out of hand and did the trade for more people playing the game, into a lot less people now playing the game, shortening the life of the game and making as much cash as possible, hell it's "worked", but it didn't half **** off god knows how many people into quiting.

i agree on all BUT wait wtf is THIS herc and omg NIX.

and we are talking 2009 when nixes was if not mistaken OP.

i do not think i need to read this with red chicken involved as it was considered OP pet.

Kinjeto - Raging Tide

As for solutions to said problem...

+ DQ points are start in the right direction.
- The Rank needs a reasonable time-frame for the gathering of materials.
+ I suppose in some ways getting level 90 or 100 pots from the grinding of monsters from the 'Divine Order of Void' but they'd need more variety.
- Level 75 pots -- not sure what they are on other servers. From rough memory most of it was under 50,000 coin which is good?
+ Gold charms in the Event point system.
+ Cosmetic items for cash and gameplay unhindered (as it stands now they already sell fashion, mounts and flying pets.
+ More items earnable but through dungeons. Which means introducing more 'content' which hasn't been done of late.

Wasn't the first PW1 subscription model? Yeah funny that.

There are also references in asian text to a recipe system for crafting items. Which is interesting cause the thing must be already in there (see www.pwdatabase.com) Maybe this was part of the PW1 system.

_Ghoul_ - Lost City

if you wish to make r9 less obtanable you have to completely kill "aps" and make non aps barb wanted again wish i do not think is possible well not with the current greedy chiefs.

i would trow away my r9 armor for a full balanced pw wish mean nerf on fish and no more aps wish is the reason i got the gear in the 1st place for.


good luck making pw balanced again ooh and while we at it bann all the gooners so pw get back its popularity pw sure need it.

Renza - Raging Tide

_Ghoul_ - Lost City wrote: »

i agree on all BUT wait wtf is THIS herc and omg NIX.

and we are talking 2009 when nixes was if not mistaken OP.

i do not think i need to read this with red chicken involved as it was considered OP pet.

Oh yeah they were considered OP, which was "one" of the reasons I got it, though I didn't know about the bleed bug till after I bought it, but hell, put it to use anyway, I mainly bought it simply to be able to level at the fastest possible speed I could and as a self defence vs PK on harshlands, that aside though, I was using herc and nix as an example as a nix back then wasn't nearly as game breaking as 5aps and rank9/+12 gears.