5 aps Sage or 5 aps demon?

Ariella_ - Lost City

Was doing a pw calc of what my gears gonna be when i hit 100. And shockingly im 5 aps base.

http://pwcalc.com/03fdd9525800bf22

Dont know why i didnt realize that sooner but yea... Which is better?

Obviously immediately the edge goes to sage. Since demon spark does nothing for me aps wise, damage reduction is always smexy. But more importantly I would like to ask more experienced archers than myself, which culti has better level 11 skills? Sage or demon?

I looked around a bit, I like how sage BoA has reduced damage taken during casting. I also like how frost arrow does water (Mag) Damage instead of phys. A good counter for non-squishies ;o

Well to be honest, I like almost all of the sage skills over the demon ones. But Im wondering if there's something I'm missing. Or something i'm not taking into account for why no one ever seems to go sage on an archer. What am I missing????? ::

Vindis - Dreamweaver

I believe you meant to roll a sin or BM. Your dex is so low I don't even know where to start...i.e. My dex is higher than yours without my gear on.

Aps is really only useful for bosses so you might want to aim for as much dex as possible while still wearing fists/claws, if you still want aps. +str is highly attainable with the addition of engraving.

<--Sage btw.

Anfisa - Lost City

Depends on what you are going to use your archer for. If it is just to kill bosses with a 5aps char I would say sage for the damage reduction. But if you are going to pvp then I would say demon but it really depends on your playstyle. I would go into more detail but you're only level 7, and idk if you have any high level characters. So before I would consider culti, I would use the Useful Archer Links sticky to learn more about archers. Deciding this early reminds me of something Elena once said:

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Level 40-49: So I was wondering if I should go Sage or Demon. I think I'm going to choose X because the skills of Y are bad for blah blah blah and I know what I am talking about because I'm level 45. Also, where do I grind?

Ariella_ - Lost City

Anfisa - Lost City wrote: »

Depends on what you are going to use your archer for. If it is just to kill bosses with a 5aps char I would say sage for the damage reduction. But if you are going to pvp then I would say demon but it really depends on your playstyle. I would go into more detail but you're only level 7, and idk if you have any high level characters. So before I would consider culti, I would use the Useful Archer Links sticky to learn more about archers. Deciding this early reminds me of something Elena once said:

I have a 101 cleric, 101 sin, 89 BM, 75 archer on another server. Coming to LC to pk. So yea Im probably just gonna merch here but if I feel like farming I'd like the ability to with fists, so yea the demon/sage spark does matter to me. And I have a general idea of most archer skills, just not the exact specifics since ive never played one for a long time. The 75 archer was plevelled lol...and the 89 BM...

And well, I'd say Im going to use this archer for both, farming and pking.

Ariella_ - Lost City

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I believe you meant to roll a sin or BM. Your dex is so low I don't even know where to start...i.e. My dex is higher than yours without my gear on.

Aps is really only useful for bosses so you might want to aim for as much dex as possible while still wearing fists/claws, if you still want aps. +str is highly attainable with the addition of engraving.

<--Sage btw.

Well first this isnt like me gear like right now. Im level 11. But i have the money on me right now to get this once I buy some fcs. But here I fixed it anyways.
http://pwcalc.com/21ff67371194efc5
Got my dex up to 431, not sure how I can get that any higher short of wearing Copper Fists... And that was just an irrelevant reference to my gear, i wasnt asking for an opinion on it, just shared it thinking it was necessary for the post lol. But yea.

Oh and another question, If I sage spark > cloud eruption/white tea or some spark gaining ability > BoA. Does the 25% damage reduction from sage spark and the 33% reduction from boa stack?? If so im sage. If not then back to the drawing board ,_,

Vindis - Dreamweaver

No it does not stack. Sage BoA gives the same buff as a Cleric's BB. Except BB is 50% and BoA is 33%. Still, BoA + Expel + Crabs is kind of like your own personal BB.

And youre level 11. You have a long way to go. If you have a sin I see no point in going aps seeing as you already have one farming character. Unless you plan to like multi-client farm nirvy or something I don't see the point in more than one aps char, but maybe thats just me.

I am sage, pure bow, TW build. 485 dex with gear on, and I think thats abit low seeing as I don't have any nirvy gear at all (like the hat).

Seeing as you plan to use it for both farming and PK, I recommend an alternate set of rings with +str engravements on them (Band of Heavens Jail works nicely) and maybe a str tome, so that way you can remain pure dex (for maximum pk bow damage) and swap to some str sets (for pve aps nirvytime).

Sample build, haphazardly thrown together

You can feel free to switch the tome for a better one or change a ring out or what have you. The extra 14 str is relatively attainable with engraving (its honestly not that expensive, especially compared with nirvy pants).

Apologies for how sloppy this post is, its almost 2am and frankly, I can't be bothered to fix it up more lol.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

It's actually quite possible to increase your bow damage with a claw build.
Step 1) Farm lots of money with claw
Step 2) refine bow to +12
Step 3) Bam you do more bow damage.

If you aren't at +12 R9 yet there's no need to try to squeeze unnoticeable bits of damage out of a bow that has lots of room for improvement.

laloner

Ariella_ - Lost City wrote: »

Well to be honest, I like almost all of the sage skills over the demon ones. But Im wondering if there's something I'm missing. Or something i'm not taking into account for why no one ever seems to go sage on an archer. What am I missing????? ::

I think what your missing is that Blazing Arrow only affects normal attacks. So Take Aim says it does several times normal damage but its never the equivalent of that many normal attacks because blazing arrow isn't involved.

The demon micro buffs involving attack speed and crit rate affect normal attacks which involve blazing arrow. Skill damage does not. So you need to take this into account.

That doesn't mean Demon is better. I think genie defense skills protect against the demon skills better than the sage skills. If you get hit with demon quickshot you can hit a genie skill before the attack speed increase kills you. If you get hit with sage take aim there is no warning time in the manner that exists with demon quickshot and all demon skills which involve micro buffs.

Anyway, I'm convinced PW balanced out culti paths equally even though few people say that. I picked sage on playstyle grounds and am very happy with it.

Ariella_ - Lost City

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No it does not stack. Sage BoA gives the same buff as a Cleric's BB. Except BB is 50% and BoA is 33%. Still, BoA + Expel + Crabs is kind of like your own personal BB.

And youre level 11. You have a long way to go. If you have a sin I see no point in going aps seeing as you already have one farming character. Unless you plan to like multi-client farm nirvy or something I don't see the point in more than one aps char, but maybe thats just me.

I am sage, pure bow, TW build. 485 dex with gear on, and I think thats abit low seeing as I don't have any nirvy gear at all (like the hat).

Seeing as you plan to use it for both farming and PK, I recommend an alternate set of rings with +str engravements on them (Band of Heavens Jail works nicely) and maybe a str tome, so that way you can remain pure dex (for maximum pk bow damage) and swap to some str sets (for pve aps nirvytime).

Sample build, haphazardly thrown together

You can feel free to switch the tome for a better one or change a ring out or what have you. The extra 14 str is relatively attainable with engraving (its honestly not that expensive, especially compared with nirvy pants).

Apologies for how sloppy this post is, its almost 2am and frankly, I can't be bothered to fix it up more lol.

The reason it's for both is because my farming char is on another server lol. This char is for TW/pk on a pk server.

I wanted to experience pvp, something Ive rarely done on my old pve server, and figured if ima pk, might as well do it on an actual legit pk server. But i do still need a source of income. And since merching on this server isnt as flourishing as it is on my other server (so it seems after a week anyways lol), I'll need a back up form on income, (farming), hence why I want 5 aps. And to me losing 15-20 dex to wear fists and gaining the ability to farm coins to improve my gear is a better idea than just going straight dex and maxing bow damage, then having no form of income, thus limiting my ability to improve after that.

And thanks for the answers, I think you guys are right, I should wait til I actually get experience using skills against people, see which ones I like to use, then decide which benefits of sage/demon would benefit me more once I have actually played the class, I just wanted an overall opinion of some of the key points for why to go a specific path.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's actually quite possible to increase your bow damage with a claw build.
Step 1) Farm lots of money with claw
Step 2) refine bow to +12
Step 3) Bam you do more bow damage.

If you aren't at +12 R9 yet there's no need to try to squeeze unnoticeable bits of damage out of a bow that has lots of room for improvement.

b:chuckle

You post like you actually farm.

Ariella_ - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:chuckle

You post like you actually farm.

She farmed goons pretty well, does that count??

QuietKitteh - Lost City

Sage = dmg etc etc etc

Demon = speed, crits etc etc etc

http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/skillpwi.php and here u compare.

Reifeil - Archosaur

Look how i see it 5 aps for archers doesn't really matter UNLESS you want to be Fist/claw and Bow

I'm a sage archer with 1.00 aps with my bow, I use to be fist/claw and bow but changed because i didn't like being both.

As many people would disagree on what a Sage or Demon archer Fist does is entirely up to them. Sage archers are good IF you can build them up properly, but expensive... As goes the same for demon, Many people go for demon because of the Spark that can land them 5 aps for a few seconds, yes it helps but only in a PvE matter... for eg. Nirvana etc.

PvP fist/claw and bow archers.... i don't know how well that would work out. I know a few who have tried but going up against a BM who is naturally a fist builded char with all the other builds it can use, it doesn't work out verry well...

Sage = Dmg Dmg dmg, When critted they do hurt....
Demon = Speed, crits etc.

Reifeil - Archosaur

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's actually quite possible to increase your bow damage with a claw build.
Step 1) Farm lots of money with claw
Step 2) refine bow to +12
Step 3) Bam you do more bow damage.

If you aren't at +12 R9 yet there's no need to try to squeeze unnoticeable bits of damage out of a bow that has lots of room for improvement.

I would also have to agree with Asterelle you can boost you bow dmg with claw build , it just take a while. unless your really rich then poof there ya go XD

Must - Lost City

Anfisa - Lost City wrote: »

Depends on what you are going to use your archer for. If it is just to kill bosses with a 5aps char I would say sage for the damage reduction. But if you are going to pvp then I would say demon but it really depends on your playstyle. I would go into more detail but you're only level 7, and idk if you have any high level characters. So before I would consider culti, I would use the Useful Archer Links sticky to learn more about archers. Deciding this early reminds me of something Elena once said:

marry me b:dirty

Hurrdurr - Lothranis

Ariella_ - Lost City wrote: »

She farmed goons pretty well, does that count??

So an archer who's not even 100 yet asking for help just started picking nits on one of the most knowledgeable archers in game and on the forums. Congratulations.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

What I find Ironic is that, being someone who's taken note of level rankings for the past 2 years or so, Asterelle had been the highest archer for a long time and had the least, if any at all, help from goons to hit 105... yet it seems like she cant show her face in GD without at least a handful of idiots crying goons.

and the rest of the 105s get hardly any **** at all. Especially the sins, which is even more so ironic. Being a class that was implemented quite a while after the original 6 and yet was the first to hit 105. Essentially, the community's great stance on the issue is: "damn you goon glitchers with your squad team work and coordination! Why cant you hit 105 legitimately like the sins who used their broken stealth to skip half the instance and their broken 5.0 to kill bosses within 10 seconds!!!!11!"

To keep **** on subject <.>

Demon spark allows one to wear better gear and still be 5.0 sparked.

Hurrdurr - Lothranis

Back on subject, the counter argument could be that sage spark allows you to tank on worse gear because of damage reduction.

But even then sage wouldn't allow me to go pure dex and switch to only 3 pieces of -int/+str gears with rest R9 for 5APS sparked when I feel like farming.

In my opinion, choosing your culti depending on PvE ability especially as an archer who gets overlooked for so many squad instances is not the best way to go. If you are dead set on choosing your culti based on PvE, and just triple spark at that, then I won't comment further b;shutup

Aesthor - Heavens Tear

It doesn't matter if you go sage or demon if you're gonna be 5 aps. The difference between sage and demon is in skills, which you can't use when you're 5 apsing anyways.

What a ridiculous question.

Decus - Dreamweaver

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It doesn't matter if you go sage or demon if you're gonna be 5 aps. The difference between sage and demon is in skills, which you can't use when you're 5 apsing anyways.

What a ridiculous question.

This. /endthread

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It doesn't matter if you go sage or demon if you're gonna be 5 aps. The difference between sage and demon is in skills, which you can't use when you're 5 apsing anyways.

What a ridiculous question.

Hm, I'd disagree. I think the implications of the spark bonus on 5 aps is sufficient enough to warrant a discussion. A small one, at least.

Hurrdurr - Lothranis

I've been away for too long. Since when did farming affect a class like archer's cultivation decision? Hell it's not even farming, it's just spark, ffs.

Aesthor - Heavens Tear

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hm, I'd disagree. I think the implications of the spark bonus on 5 aps is sufficient enough to warrant a discussion. A small one, at least.

Sage may have damage reduction but since you need less APS gear to reach 5.0 as demon you can wear better ornaments or armor. I can hit 5 aps with most of my r9 gear.

Allynna_ - Dreamweaver

If you have the Gear to be either, it really comes down to which set of skills you prefer. A 5APS Demon would be able to Perma-spark with more flexible gear, but when you get 5 APS base Sage spark is better.

Though a Demon Archer could get better base survivability with better Ornaments and/or cape, does this off set the Sage damage reduction?

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

.. And the previous two posts would be the bulk of the discussion.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Sage archers can be 5.0 base with at most 3 pieces of R9 while demons can do it with 4. The 4/6 set bonus for R9 is +10 attack lev. Demons can even do 4/6 with -.05 G15 claws which sages have a hard time using.

Basically Demons have an easier time first hitting 5.0 and they have a higher potential DPS. Somewhere in the middle sages have higher survivability.

Aesthor - Heavens Tear

Ty Asty for the exact number of r9 pieces that can be worn lol. I haven't tried to get 5 aps on my archer for so long I don't even remember.

Ariella_ - Lost City

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It doesn't matter if you go sage or demon if you're gonna be 5 aps. The difference between sage and demon is in skills, which you can't use when you're 5 apsing anyways.

What a ridiculous question.

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This. /endthread

People on the forums are so reta,rded lol. That's the point of the question. I didnt wanna say sage or demon just like that cuz then you dumbasses would come in here saying "Demon for 5 aps", so i said, Ill be 5 aps with either culti, which skills are better. Did you even read the original OP you downies? Lololol.



Kids will never learn.

Ariella_ - Lost City

Ariella_ - Lost City wrote: »

Was doing a pw calc of what my gears gonna be when i hit 100. And shockingly im 5 aps base.

http://pwcalc.com/03fdd9525800bf22

Dont know why i didnt realize that sooner but yea... Which is better?

Obviously immediately the edge goes to sage. Since demon spark does nothing for me aps wise, damage reduction is always smexy. But more importantly I would like to ask more experienced archers than myself, which culti has better level 11 skills? Sage or demon?

I looked around a bit, I like how sage BoA has reduced damage taken during casting. I also like how frost arrow does water (Mag) Damage instead of phys. A good counter for non-squishies ;o

Well to be honest, I like almost all of the sage skills over the demon ones. But Im wondering if there's something I'm missing. Or something i'm not taking into account for why no one ever seems to go sage on an archer. What am I missing????? ::

Quoted the OP for you since you guys are incapable of looking at the 1st page.

And yea, i was ignorant asking this question so early...Frost arrow. LOL I was actually basing a decision off that stupid *** skill. How worthless.

Im still split btw. Didnt consider the option of being able to wear better gear and still be 5 aps if i was demon. And demon boa is also sexy. Idk -.-

Traz - Dreamweaver

Pretty much all valid points except one is missing. If the archer in question is an alt (5th 100 alt for me). My archer just uses all my sins gear, so it's sage 5.0 (soon 5.0 with G15 claws). Some people that are reading this and will be in the same position as me will say, "I don't care how many r9 pieces I can wear, give me the best heal / survivability build and phew phew phew phew."

For the record, if this archer was my main, I would have gone demon. Since It's 99.9% used to nirvy exclusively, I just went sage for the dmg reduction and with the G15 claws it should hardly ever die. Same goes if I ever use it in TT (not sure why but well O.o).

Quilue - Sanctuary

Bow APS can be important too.