Let's talk about the devs.
Miugre - Heavens Tear
Posts: 2,390 Arc User
Now, please don't think I'm just trying to revive a closed thread here. I only quoted that because it's relevant, and because I feel like ranting a little. :PChaoticShelly wrote:There won't be a snowmen event this year, frankie has confirmed that, and since they don't know what went wrong and why the snowmen are turning at us in a vicious, murderous way, they can't fix it. The Chinese team has done something wrong, that's for sure.
The snowmen are just the latest in a long line of missteps, kludges and "oops!" moments by the devs. You would think that a competent dev team could look at their own code, find out what's making the snowmen do AoE attacks, and fix it. Nope. We just get snow without snowmen. A much-loved tradition, three years running, gets put down. I wouldn't be surprised if they never bother to fix it and we never see the snowmen again.
The FF goon glitch is a great example, too. Why did the boss spawn so many extra goons? What was the trigger, and how can we fix it? These are the questions a competent dev team would ask themselves. But not ours. We just got massively reduced goon exp, so that they can't even be used in the way they were intended anymore. And now almost no one does end-runs in FF.
And I don't care what the officials here say, the SP fiasco was a dev error. The official explanation is just too full of holes to be real ("ohai gaiz the devs wanted to try out free-for-all PK in a totally inappropriate instance for it lol").
APS is a great example too (and yeah I know it's my "pet issue," if you will, but it's relevant :P). The whole thing could've been curbed by just changing one simple number in the code. Instead we get kludges and workarounds. Caster Nirvana, for instance... great for casters, but it only sidesteps the problem, and the rest of us still get shafted. Even the Earthguard classes are kludgy in this regard. Sure it's better than being able to have a 5.0 Seeker, but did you really have to restrict all the weapons to do it?
And then there are the tiny little bugs that should be as easy as flipping a switch. The buff overwrite bugs come to mind, here. How hard could it possibly be to fix Magic Shell, Blazing Arrow, etc.?
If nothing else, the current devs have proven that they can they can create new content somewhat competently. I thought the Elysium Village update was actually pretty cool... just the sort of thing we needed for endgame. The Genesis expansion was nice, kludgy weapon system notwithstanding. And assuming it's the same dev house working on this new expansion coming up, well, I'll admit I'm optimistic (although I love how it's already got people prophesizing doom for it just because the new PVE-centric gears won't put R9 to shame).
But what is the deal with the old code? Why would a dev team confident enough to add new content have such an aversion to fixing any of the old stuff? It's like they're afraid it'll all turn to dust if they so much as touch it. It's okay, guys. You can change that 5.0 to a 3.0. The world won't burn. >_>
Okay, I'm done ranting now. XD But for the record, my feeling on the devs in general isn't so much "you guys can't do anything right!" It's more along the lines of "come on, guys, I know you can do better than this."
Although one question does remain in my mind, and I think we've been owed this answer for a while now: who are the dev houses that have worked on PW*? It's obvious that the original devs are long gone. But who took over for them? Who developed Rising Tide, and was it the same team that developed Genesis? And why, oh why won't they fix things in a manner we actually need?
inb4 PWI ONLY CAERS BOUT $$$ LOL
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).
Post edited by Miugre - Heavens Tear on
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Comments
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to be honest, i feel bad for frankie and the whole crew of PWI
they pay PWE to get a **** code thats constantly screwed up, and they cant do anything to fix it┌─┐
┴─┴
ಠ_ರೃ0 -
I am a software developer myself and sometimes have to deal with "legacy" code that can break easily and be hard to maintain. The usual reason why code ends up this way and also why it is never fixed is "deadline pressure".
You get asked to do a ridiculous amount of changes new features and fixes in a very tight timescale with a very tight budget. These days very little investment is made in development since everyone is trying to save money.
So my guess is that the PW team in China are under such pressure so they do "rush jobs", make "mistakes", "cut back on the amount of testing and code review" etc. Basically they bodge it to get it done quickly and on budget to meet unrealistic targets.
It is very sad how a game like this that must make sooooo much money (I dread to think how much sales from just Hyper stones during the FF glitch period was) can invest so little in fixing issues and doing decent testing.
But bottom line is that only the players actually care and as long as we keep giving them our money the management team will not care. If you really want to influence PWI the only way is with your wallets (or should I say ur mum and dads credit cards lol).
BTW on the snowman issue I would be happy if they released them some time in the winter, even like February. Rather than just saying tough luck they are not comming until next year. Ah well, I can dream.0 -
You must understand, first the sheer amount of coding here is astounding, then add to this fact that these developers are not the creators and they probably come and go fairly often (high turnover).
The other thing is that in the case of the Dragons, you had a mob that already existed. Now I am not sure if they are given the same ID as the mobs in TT, and some parts of the map up around 1K - but we know they are definately the same mobs in other parts of FC.
Sometimes what may seem to be a simple fix, can set off a domino effect. Snowmen last year had different variables to work with - think about how many updates their has been and then there was even an expansion. All of this needs to be taken into account.
I do agree with the FC, it could of been as simple as nurfing the experience given from the dragons from the get-go, but then - this is not a decision for the developers. They merely help provide data for meetings where they are support and not decision makers. IF they were invited at all.
Trust me, this is my world, there is always more to this than meets the eye. Developers can do nothing w/o final approval. Often they are rushed by higher ups, and TOLD to get things done - even though there is not enough time or testing. But - in the end, Developers are the ones blamed.0 -
The code for this game is sitting at a bit over 6 GB right now.
When something goes wrong on a line in the code, somewhere deep in there, and there's been multiple teams of devs that have worked on it previously, everything is jumbled up and there are mixed up notes, missing notes, or nobody made notes in the first place, do you think it takes 5 minutes to go in and fix something like snowmen?
Some of the code is obviously quite complicated, like the code to prevent getting above 15m/s or riding your land mount while flying on your air mount at the same time, since it took so long to fix those bugs.
You can't just go to google and type in 'snowmen fix' and get an answer for this stuff, and these are pretty much students in China working on this game.
If you want a POLISHED game, find a game not based in a Communist country, and one that is P2P.101 Sage Sin*/Archer
100 Demon BM*/Barb
96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
95 Demon Wiz/
94 Sage Veno
85 Psy/80 Mystic
And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
*Pre RB level0 -
I'm not much of a coder (and when I do, it's usually just a hobby thing). But if we're talking legacy code, wouldn't that imply a completely different game engine in this case? AFAIK, the PW engine has never really changed... it's just, things kept getting stapled on to it until it became the bloated, buggy mess we have today.ghdfghdfgh wrote: »I am a software developer myself and sometimes have to deal with "legacy" code that can break easily and be hard to maintain. The usual reason why code ends up this way and also why it is never fixed is "deadline pressure".
You get asked to do a ridiculous amount of changes new features and fixes in a very tight timescale with a very tight budget. These days very little investment is made in development since everyone is trying to save money.
So my guess is that the PW team in China are under such pressure so they do "rush jobs", make "mistakes", "cut back on the amount of testing and code review" etc. Basically they bodge it to get it done quickly and on budget to meet unrealistic targets.
It is very sad how a game like this that must make sooooo much money (I dread to think how much sales from just Hyper stones during the FF glitch period was) can invest so little in fixing issues and doing decent testing.
But bottom line is that only the players actually care and as long as we keep giving them our money the management team will not care. If you really want to influence PWI the only way is with your wallets (or should I say ur mum and dads credit cards lol).
BTW on the snowman issue I would be happy if they released them some time in the winter, even like February. Rather than just saying tough luck they are not comming until next year. Ah well, I can dream.
I'd have to agree 100% on the "fixing" business. Deadlines or no, there is no excuse why you can't fix the Magic Shell overwrite bug in five minutes or less. Same thing with the APS cap. These things could well be just a single line of code that needs fixing, but the way our devs work, you'd think they'd need to rewrite the entire engine to fix them. >_<
I hate to say the "vote with your wallet" thing just doesn't work though. If that worked, we wouldn't have a lot of the problems we do in society today.
All valid points, although I still don't see how magic shell or APS would set off a domino effect. But as for the "higher-ups," well that's all fine and dandy except for the fact that we can't see them, we can't talk to them, and more importantly we can't blame them for everything either. If it was just a change in policy, why the change in dev houses? You could easily have just said "okay guys, we're going in this direction now" to the old ones. :PAizza - Harshlands wrote: »You must understand, first the sheer amount of coding here is astounding, then add to this fact that these developers are not the creators and they probably come and go fairly often (high turnover).
The other thing is that in the case of the Dragons, you had a mob that already existed. Now I am not sure if they are given the same ID as the mobs in TT, and some parts of the map up around 1K - but we know they are definately the same mobs in other parts of FC.
Sometimes what may seem to be a simple fix, can set off a domino effect. Snowmen last year had different variables to work with - think about how many updates their has been and then there was even an expansion. All of this needs to be taken into account.
I do agree with the FC, it could of been as simple as nurfing the experience given from the dragons from the get-go, but then - this is not a decision for the developers. They merely help provide data for meetings where they are support and not decision makers. IF they were invited at all.
Trust me, this is my world, there is always more to this than meets the eye. Developers can do nothing w/o final approval. Often they are rushed by higher ups, and TOLD to get things done - even though there is not enough time or testing. But - in the end, Developers are the ones blamed.
And even then, I'm positive that some of these things could have been fixed in five minutes or less by a dev who was comfortable with the code. I disagree that everything has to come from the top. I think a dev who took the initiative could just say to the boss "hey, I fixed five bugs today, is it cool if we include this in the patch?" I can't imagine a superior who wouldn't appreciate that. Hell, I'd promote the guy. XD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
Pyrostormz - Raging Tide wrote: »to be honest, i feel bad for frankie and the whole crew of PWI
they pay PWE to get a **** code thats constantly screwed up, and they cant do anything to fix it
this. But when it comes to customer support, I expected something better, since it's in their competence and not relative to PWE.0 -
Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »Same thing with the APS cap.
5 APS is and was never a bug. Its just a rumor speard by wannabes like u. Without APS gear Boss HPs would have to be 95% lower. Only brainless repetetive tards which r proud to be able to spam flesh, devour or ironheart want to stay at a boss more than 5mins. I'm glad that the times of stupid asisan grinders r over. 99.9% of core community likes the 4/5 aps system as it is. The view others just spam in forum and r not able to play the game anyway - and believe they r a majority lolz.0 -
5 APS is and was never a bug. Its just a rumor speard by wannabes like u. Without APS gear Boss HPs would have to be 95% lower. Only brainless repetetive tards which r proud to be able to spam flesh, devour or ironheart want to stay at a boss more than 5mins. I'm glad that the times of stupid asisan grinders r over. 99.9% of core community likes the 4/5 aps system as it is. The view others just spam in forum and r not able to play the game anyway - and believe they r a majority lolz.
No, no, no, no, no, no!
Before the stabby fish revolution, we used to get full rainbow squads and do caves. Sure, it would take longer to kill a high hp boss but that's why we had the skills we did.
Now, too many power lvl stabby fishies want to be tanks, DDs and self healing EPs (bloodpaint). I guess you see nothing broken when a stabby fish can solo FC, eh?
Us "repetetive tards" as you like to call us, knew that the tank (barb) was our meat shield, the healer (cleric) healed the tank, and the others were DDs. I have no problem spamming IH on a tank that is doing what he is supposed to do.
TBH, give me a rainbow squad (non tideborn or earthguard), who knows how to play their class, anyday.
It should have been that TB and EG were a seperate game called "Fish and Moles".[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Without APS gear Boss HPs would have to be 95% lower.
That gave me a laugh to start my day. I suppose I should thank you for that.
Idk about everyone else but I found bosses killable in the early days before the APS craze. More challenging to be sure, but that is half the fun.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Annalyse (veno) - Melosa (cleric) - Glynneth (archer) - Pickerel (sin)
Florafang (wiz) - RubixCube (barb) - Laravell (psy) - Diviah (Mystic)
Torchwood (BM) - Sataea (Seeker) - Wystera (Sin) - Allissere (SB)
Looking for a mature faction on HT? pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=7608420 -
Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »The code for this game is sitting at a bit over 6 GB right now.
When something goes wrong on a line in the code, somewhere deep in there, and there's been multiple teams of devs that have worked on it previously, everything is jumbled up and there are mixed up notes, missing notes, or nobody made notes in the first place, do you think it takes 5 minutes to go in and fix something like snowmen?
Some of the code is obviously quite complicated, like the code to prevent getting above 15m/s or riding your land mount while flying on your air mount at the same time, since it took so long to fix those bugs.
You can't just go to google and type in 'snowmen fix' and get an answer for this stuff, and these are pretty much students in China working on this game.
If you want a POLISHED game, find a game not based in a Communist country, and one that is P2P.
You really have no idea what you're talking about do you...
PWI is not "6gb of code". PWI is 6gb of textures, meshes, maps, all the good stuff you see visually. The actual coding for this game (such as events, AI, quests, etc) doesn't even come CLOSE to 6gb. Don't believe me? Look at your data folder... That's a good part of what actually happens in game. It's only 89 mb too.
Also, changing around snowmen is not as hard as you think it is. PW is pretty well documented how it works by a certain other community, and they are laughing at PWE right now because snowmen would take 5 minutes to fix. When I say 5 minutes, I mean the time it takes to find the file, edit the code, and then open the game to make sure it came out correctly.
Don't kid yourself guys... Most of the fixes that can be done are doable and are not as hard as you think they are...
Fixes never happens is due to things like laziness, unwillingness, or just simply wanmei demanding unreasonable things from their devs.
If wanmei wasn't so concerned with maintaining like 20 mmos, they would have a perfect game...
PWE isn't exactly helping either by catering to the cashshoppers with all these sales and refusing to interact with the community when they need them. Simple acknowledgements and information instead of lies go far...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
like with the SP PK problem. we waited 7 weeks after they announced that it would be reverted back to the way it was.
In recently playing around with starting a private server, I discovered something in a discussion about the Armageddon snowmen...343 wrote:SERIOUSLY -- we needed to wait weeks/months for the PvP enabled to be disabled and flying in SP WHY, when it was a simple one liner in GS.CONF ~~ they REALLY needed a 'dev' to change ONE LITTLE THING in GS.CONF [LIMIT = NOFLY; & CID = 0,2,13] OMFG that was hard...
And I get a two-week ban from the forums for calling Frankie a lying terd about them giving us a false expectation on when the new item would be added to the DQ shop. >.<
Let's face it. All they care about is selling packs, ultimate gear, and making money. It is precisely because of this that I am no longer afraid to voice my opinion of the company, it's management, and it's intermediaries.
I still continue to send them mail. I also continue to receive absolutely no response whatsoever.
Edit: Yeah, you're right Bubbles, so I removed the link. Like I need to give them something else to ban me for. If anyone wants it, PM me.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Sylen, quoting 343 is fine, but you'd be wise to remove that link. >_>[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »like with the SP PK problem. we waited 7 weeks after they announced that it would be reverted back to the way it was.
In recently playing around with starting a private server, I discovered something in a discussion about the Armageddon snowmen...
And I get a two-week ban from the forums for calling Frankie a lying terd about them giving us a false expectation on when the new item would be added to the DQ shop. >.<
Let's face it. All they care about is selling packs, ultimate gear, and making money. It is precisely because of this that I am no longer afraid to voice my opinion of the company, it's management, and it's intermediaries.
I still continue to send them mail. I also continue to receive absolutely no response whatsoever.
Edit: Yeah, you're right Bubbles, so I removed the link. Like I need to give them something else to ban me for. If anyone wants it, PM me.
We did not wait 7 weeks because they were incompetent to fix it, we waited because they do not send a patch every week to PWI. As frankie has said several times in regards to patches, "they do not send us single fixes for patches they wait until the group up a bunch of them at one time and send them."
The only thing we can blame frankie for is quoting time frames that he has no control over. Constantly he tells us times that he either does not actually know for sure or china changes the time frame on him. Other then that if china tells him 2 weeks and he reports that and then china says well it will be another 2 weeks we only seem to blame him. We do not know the full reasons, but as a result most of us want to cry about it rather then understand it. Don't get me wrong some of the things are inexcusable and we should be frustrated over but other things it's just sad how quick everyone is to cry about.BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
This FREE tool adds ZEN to your Perfect World! Just don't abuse and your account will stay safe!
Might want to remove that post, mods.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Annalyse (veno) - Melosa (cleric) - Glynneth (archer) - Pickerel (sin)
Florafang (wiz) - RubixCube (barb) - Laravell (psy) - Diviah (Mystic)
Torchwood (BM) - Sataea (Seeker) - Wystera (Sin) - Allissere (SB)
Looking for a mature faction on HT? pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=7608420 -
Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »We did not wait 7 weeks because they were incompetent to fix it, we waited because they do not send a patch every week to PWI. As frankie has said several times in regards to patches, "they do not send us single fixes for patches they wait until the group up a bunch of them at one time and send them."
The only thing we can blame frankie for is quoting time frames that he has no control over. Constantly he tells us times that he either does not actually know for sure or china changes the time frame on him. Other then that if china tells him 2 weeks and he reports that and then china says well it will be another 2 weeks we only seem to blame him. We do not know the full reasons, but as a result most of us want to cry about it rather then understand it. Don't get me wrong some of the things are inexcusable and we should be frustrated over but other things it's just sad how quick everyone is to cry about.
The point is that the fix wasn't something we had to wait 7 weeks to get a patch for. It was something they could have fixed locally, easily, and then rebooted the server. Nothing even needed to be sent out to the clients. It would have taken all of about 10-15 minutes.
Same goes for the snowmen.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Gaaah. Why is it that every time I meet someone who makes such an awesome post as this, they're on any server BUT mine? >_< I want to play these kinds of runs!SkogDyr - Lost City wrote: »No, no, no, no, no, no!
Before the stabby fish revolution, we used to get full rainbow squads and do caves. Sure, it would take longer to kill a high hp boss but that's why we had the skills we did.
Now, too many power lvl stabby fishies want to be tanks, DDs and self healing EPs (bloodpaint). I guess you see nothing broken when a stabby fish can solo FC, eh?
Us "repetetive tards" as you like to call us, knew that the tank (barb) was our meat shield, the healer (cleric) healed the tank, and the others were DDs. I have no problem spamming IH on a tank that is doing what he is supposed to do.
TBH, give me a rainbow squad (non tideborn or earthguard), who knows how to play their class, anyday.
It should have been that TB and EG were a seperate game called "Fish and Moles".
But yeah, that's actually the reason I refuse soloists in any and all cases unless I'm really pressed for time (in which case, I arguably shouldn't be playing PWI anyway). I've had so many offers to have my BHs soloed for me. I refuse them every time, they're mystified, and I explain to them that it completely kills the point of the game to have things soloed for me. I think a lot of them are silently raging when you tell them all their APS gear fails to get them respect from some people :P
In general... does anyone remember the name Archosaur Studios? I've seen a couple posts about them, listing them as the people who created the original PW engine before it was bought by the PW company. Why were those devs not brought on board along with the engine? What dev house took over from there? I really, really want some names here. It's a bad sign when your dev house doesn't even have a name other than "some Chinese college students." >_>[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »The point is that the fix wasn't something we had to wait 7 weeks to get a patch for. It was something they could have fixed locally, easily, and then rebooted the server. Nothing even needed to be sent out to the clients. It would have taken all of about 10-15 minutes.
Same goes for the snowmen.
The problem with all of this is pwe's relationship with wanmei; they can't do nada to the servers without approval.
I suppose this relationship allow means that they are not allowed to touch game code untill wanmei ships them an update.
I suppose the only thing pwe is allowed to change on their side is the cash shop files...Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »
In general... does anyone remember the name Archosaur Studios? I've seen a couple posts about them, listing them as the people who created the original PW engine before it was bought by the PW company. Why were those devs not brought on board along with the engine? What dev house took over from there? I really, really want some names here. It's a bad sign when your dev house doesn't even have a name other than "some Chinese college students." >_>
They were most likely fired for doing such a good job with the game. Judging from the inconsistencies in the game, the original devs had ambitious dreams, but were unable to reach the deadline in time, and such were fired when wanmei took over.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: ».....
In general... does anyone remember the name Archosaur Studios? I've seen a couple posts about them, listing them as the people who created the original PW engine before it was bought by the PW company. Why were those devs not brought on board along with the engine? What dev house took over from there? I really, really want some names here. It's a bad sign when your dev house doesn't even have a name other than "some Chinese college students." >_>
Actually we had them for most of the first year of the game. But apparently they cost too much to maintain so PWE fired them and hired a bunch of kids fresh out of school. It's no wonder the dev team sucks so hard.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »The point is that the fix wasn't something we had to wait 7 weeks to get a patch for. It was something they could have fixed locally, easily, and then rebooted the server. Nothing even needed to be sent out to the clients. It would have taken all of about 10-15 minutes.
Same goes for the snowmen.
You just nailed the biggest problem of this game right on the head. PWE is unable to touch ANY code unless it is qualified as a complete game ruining situation that needs immediate attention. The best thing that could ever happen to this game is if they could get local devs that can make all those quick changes and then verify said changes with china instead of always waiting on china to do it for them. There is a second aspect of waiting on china to fix things. Sometimes these fixes DO NOT involved their game in china. This change happened to our version, but it remained the same in china. These types of changes will take longer because it's for a sister company and version vs their mainstream version of the game. I will say it now and I will continue to say it, the two biggest flaws of this game is needing china to change EVERYTHING and the marketing team has transformed this game into a joke of a pay to play. China's version is far from a pay and get all your rep and r9 and event items. They have a much more balanced game and this is more or less a private server version now.BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
sad part is, a good number of the community here on the forums that plays the game can make these fixes in 5 easy minutes, if we just had access to what we needed (basically, just the server files that need to be fixed and the configurations) this is the single-most annoying thing to any number of us, we know how to make this work like it should, but instead of china taking the 5 minutes it will take to fix it, they refuse. Let's face it, snowmen is NOT a 7 day fix.
343 has been a rather large part of a great many of us' learning of the game's workings, and it's good to see him getting mentioned and noticed here as well
this is the information that we know about the snowmen, given the limited information we can pull from the client.
(do not ask what the "?" are, they are unknown to the majority of us)ID(int32)=13641 Type(int32)=2868 Name(wstring:64)=Snowman ?(wstring:32)=0 Element(wstring:32)=No Attribute ?(int32)=1073741824 ?(int32)=2048 ?(string:128)=Models\NPCs\怪物\12水元素\圣诞雪人\圣诞雪人.ecm ?(string:128)=0 ?(string:128)=GFX\策划联入\怪物击中\怪物肉搏击中.gfx ?(float)=1 ?(float)=1 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 Level(int32)=150 ?(int32)=1 ?(int32)=0 HP(int32)=1 Physical Defense(int32)=0 Metal Defense(int32)=0 Wood Defense(int32)=0 Water Defense(int32)=0 Fire Defense(int32)=0 Earth Defense(int32)=0 ?(int32)=62 EXP(int32)=10 SP(int32)=2 Coin Mean(int32)=0 Coin Variance(int32)=0 ?(int32)=1 ?(int32)=15 Accuracy(int32)=1 Evasion(int32)=1 Min. Physical Attack(int32)=1 Max. Physical Attack(int32)=1 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=2 ?(float)=2 Min. Magic Attack(int32)=1 Max. Magic Attack(int32)=1 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 Aggro Range(float)=25 Aggro Time(float)=12 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=1 Walk Speed(float)=0.01 Run Speed(float)=0.01 Fly Speed(float)=0 Swim Speed(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 AI Controller(int32)=1221 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=1 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=1 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=1 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=1 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0.95 ?(float)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(float)=0.05 ?(int32)=5 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=3368 ?(float)=0.026362 ?(int32)=3369 ?(float)=0.026362 ?(int32)=3370 ?(float)=0.026362 ?(int32)=11155 ?(float)=0.008787 ?(int32)=5634 ?(float)=0.474517 ?(int32)=5635 ?(float)=0.158172 ?(int32)=5636 ?(float)=0.052724 ?(int32)=5637 ?(float)=0.017575 ?(int32)=5638 ?(float)=0.005272 ?(int32)=5639 ?(float)=0.001757 ?(int32)=13699 ?(float)=0.158172 ?(int32)=18933 ?(float)=0.00703 ?(int32)=24694 ?(float)=0.001757 ?(int32)=13698 ?(float)=0.035151 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0
it looks fine here. which means that the problem lies in the server files most likely, but no one but PWI can verify this as no one but them has access to those files, and no one has configurations for them either. now if someone who does have access (GMs I'm talkign to you) wants to post the data from the SERVER-SIDE elements.data I'm sure a good number ofus would like to see if that matches up
(this is likely the same tools that PWdatabase uses to get their information)I'm a guy, not a woman, that is all
"When you're on Team Bring it, every morning your feet hit the floor, the good lord says "good morning" and the devil says 'Oh **** they're up' " - Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson
Are you on Team Bring it?0 -
the devs are probably a bunch of bad paid chinese it-students coming and going regulary b:byei am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss0
-
Here's what the original, (non-nuclear), snowman code looks like in the elemnts.data file on the server. All they have to do is remove the existing snowman string, insert this one, and then reboot the server quick. Problem solved, and we have working snowmen. (They would also have to re-activate the spawn trigger in NPCgen.data for the world-map, of course. This takes a mere 10-15 seconds.)
SourceFile=\\FIRE-AND-ICE\share\gamed\config\elements.dat ListIndex=37 ElementIndex=1952 ID(int32)=13641 Type(int32)=2868 Name(wstring:64)=Snowman ?(wstring:32)=0 ?(wstring:32)=no attribute ?(int32)=1073741824 ?(int32)=2048 ?(string:128)=Models\NPCs\怪物\12水元素\圣诞雪人\圣诞雪人.ecm ?(string:128)=0 ?(string:128)=GFX\策划联入\怪物击中\怪物肉搏击中.gfx ?(float)=1 ?(float)=1 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=150 ?(int32)=1 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=1 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=62 ?(int32)=10 ?(int32)=2 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=1 ?(int32)=15 ?(int32)=1 ?(int32)=1 ?(int32)=1 ?(int32)=1 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=2 ?(float)=2 ?(int32)=1 ?(int32)=1 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=25 ?(float)=12 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=1 ?(float)=0.01 ?(float)=0.01 ?(float)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=1221 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=1 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=1 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=1 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=1 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0.95 ?(float)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(float)=0.05 ?(int32)=5 ?(int32)=0 ?(int32)=3368 ?(float)=0.026362 ?(int32)=3369 ?(float)=0.026362 ?(int32)=3370 ?(float)=0.026362 ?(int32)=11155 ?(float)=0.008787 ?(int32)=5634 ?(float)=0.474517 ?(int32)=5635 ?(float)=0.158172 ?(int32)=5636 ?(float)=0.052724 ?(int32)=5637 ?(float)=0.017575 ?(int32)=5638 ?(float)=0.005272 ?(int32)=5639 ?(float)=0.001757 ?(int32)=13699 ?(float)=0.158172 ?(int32)=18933 ?(float)=0.00703 ?(int32)=24694 ?(float)=0.001757 ?(int32)=13698 ?(float)=0.035151 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0 ?(int32)=0 ?(float)=0
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I've heard this theory more than once now. And it would explain a lot. But do you have a source to back it up?SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »Actually we had them for most of the first year of the game. But apparently they cost too much to maintain so PWE fired them and hired a bunch of kids fresh out of school. It's no wonder the dev team sucks so hard.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
Instead of anouncing majour updates patches. I really dont think anyone would mind if they worked on fixing glitches and other problems for a few weeks. something to show off would be the end result.
LET me say as well "If u dont listen to your customers then they will go else where" its the same as offering the correct "service" as you call it. People are willing to help make this game what it should be by makeing sugestions and even helping moderate in game. ( Ive had lots of people complain about no ingame suport ) sometimes its not about how long it takes is about getting it right first time...0 -
Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »I've heard this theory more than once now. And it would explain a lot. But do you have a source to back it up?
If you had asked me two years ago, easy peasy. Even a year ago, I could have dug up some information to back it up. Now though, everyone that I knew from back then has moved on to greener pastures, and whatever information that was available here got long buried with the spoons cleanup in the forums. (they messed with a LOT of threads back then.) Given some time I can probably come up with the hard data, but I lack the time to waste these days on such an effort that will give little return.
The gist of it was this.. PWE purchased the PW game from Archosaur group. (I believe they may have actually purchased the company and PW was the main or only title.) Back then it was pay-to-play. That was PW-1. The devs from Archosaur group came to work for Wanemei and continued to refine their game. PW-Bejing made the descision to convert the client to a free-to-play version and expand their audience. (Thus the birth of PW-2, which was/is the PW-CN version.)
At this time they also began working on PWI (PW-3). The dev's salaries were well reasonable when it was P2P, unfortunately, PWE could not support this as well with the change to F2P and did not have enough other popular games at the time to support it. PW-CN was their flagship. As a result of this, they slowly reduced the team of developers, and eventually let the original dev's go.
It's all really sad. None of the updates we get now are actual changes to the code. They're just mods added to the client like putting add-ons on Oblivion. The original Developers had envisioned a vast land, many times larger than our current map. It would have had the content to easily support the games level cap of 150. Unfortunately, PWE has blundered even this. our FB-109 maps are Warsong and Nirvana. (Although Nirvana has been changed to the point of being almost unrecognizable.) It's not likely that we will ever see the cap raised from 105. What would they have to offer anyway?
I'd just be happy if the new guys learned enough about the source code to fix the bugs that have plagued this game for years.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Could you try to find a bit of hard data? I know you're cynical and apathetic now and all that - and I don't blame you, because I would be, too - but that kind of info would be really useful for our historical perspective. The less we know about the past of this game, the easier it is to forget all of it in favor of the **** heap we have today.SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »If you had asked me two years ago, easy peasy. Even a year ago, I could have dug up some information to back it up. Now though, everyone that I knew from back then has moved on to greener pastures, and whatever information that was available here got long buried with the spoons cleanup in the forums. (they messed with a LOT of threads back then.) Given some time I can probably come up with the hard data, but I lack the time to waste these days on such an effort that will give little return.
The gist of it was this.. PWE purchased the PW game from Archosaur group. (I believe they may have actually purchased the company and PW was the main or only title.) Back then it was pay-to-play. That was PW-1. The devs from Archosaur group came to work for Wanemei and continued to refine their game. PW-Bejing made the descision to convert the client to a free-to-play version and expand their audience. (Thus the birth of PW-2, which was/is the PW-CN version.)
At this time they also began working on PWI (PW-3). The dev's salaries were well reasonable when it was P2P, unfortunately, PWE could not support this as well with the change to F2P and did not have enough other popular games at the time to support it. PW-CN was their flagship. As a result of this, they slowly reduced the team of developers, and eventually let the original dev's go.
It's all really sad. None of the updates we get now are actual changes to the code. They're just mods added to the client like putting add-ons on Oblivion. The original Developers had envisioned a vast land, many times larger than our current map. It would have had the content to easily support the games level cap of 150. Unfortunately, PWE has blundered even this. our FB-109 maps are Warsong and Nirvana. (Although Nirvana has been changed to the point of being almost unrecognizable.) It's not likely that we will ever see the cap raised from 105. What would they have to offer anyway?
I'd just be happy if the new guys learned enough about the source code to fix the bugs that have plagued this game for years.
What's ironic though, is... if they didn't have the money to keep Arch Studios back then, wouldn't they have the money to buy them back today? Say to them "okay look, we admit we don't know wtf we're doing, just fix it for us?" :P I know it'll never happen, but the hilarity is in the fact that it could.
And I don't remember a purge when spoons left... o.o[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »The gist of it was this.. PWE purchased the PW game from Archosaur group. (I believe they may have actually purchased the company and PW was the main or only title.) Back then it was pay-to-play. That was PW-1. The devs from Archosaur group came to work for Wanemei and continued to refine their game. PW-Bejing made the descision to convert the client to a free-to-play version and expand their audience. (Thus the birth of PW-2, which was/is the PW-CN version.)
At this time they also began working on PWI (PW-3). The dev's salaries were well reasonable when it was P2P, unfortunately, PWE could not support this as well with the change to F2P and did not have enough other popular games at the time to support it. PW-CN was their flagship. As a result of this, they slowly reduced the team of developers, and eventually let the original dev's go.
You're mostly right but...
While they did convert the client to f2p, they still kept the p2p version. It's still running, and it got updated with tb few months ago.
Our version is not pw3, its pw2 in english.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I have seen it referred to as "Perfect World, version 3" in several documents, which is where I got that from.
Miugre, I'll go hunting. I lost a lot of information when my hard drive crashed a year and a half ago. Really pissed me off because I had just spent two months solid on the most detailed FCC guide ever. That's about the time I quit updating my guide website on a regular basis, SO much was lost. The web is handy for holding onto useless data, so I may be able to discover some of it out there in the quarterly reports or something.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
@SylenThunder - Sanctuary: What elements editor are you using?I'm a guy, not a woman, that is all
"When you're on Team Bring it, every morning your feet hit the floor, the good lord says "good morning" and the devil says 'Oh **** they're up' " - Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson
Are you on Team Bring it?0
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