TT99 or Nirvana?

Chelestine - Heavens Tear

I've been in a bit of a dilemma lately, and I'm not getting anywhere with my thoughts so I figured I'd hopefully receive some good advice from some nice people

My main worry is what gear I should aim for at 99-100 (as presumably "end-game gear" for me). I am not a cash-shopper, so I can't afford to spend money getting any of the better gears available.

The two only bits I'm concerned about are the Top and Bottom (Wrist + Shoes will stay TT99, end of story).

I've always wanted the TT99 Archangel set but because of the price of the gold mats I've thought this would be impossible to ever obtain. But due to the double drop rate, I've seen fairly decent prices for the gold mats needed, and I could most definitely be able to afford them.

The other set I've been looking at is the Lunar based Nirvana: Phoenix Rise, starting with the Phoenix Dance set at 95. Now, I know the cost for a full second cast nirvana piece, and it's a lot steeper than the TT99 set would be (heck, even getting the 95 base on it's own is way more expensive than the TT99), but I figured it would give me something to aim for in the game, and to work my way into getting gradually rather than quitting of boredom as soon as I reach 100.

IMO the stats on the Lunar gear is a lot better than the TT99, with the defences and grade being higher even on the 95 Phoenix set and the first cast of Nirvana. But I don't know if it's worth the cost and time to get instead of the TT99, which would grant a nice +15 VIT bonus with 4 pieces.

The pieces of armour in question are these:

TT99 Archangel:
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/14952
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/14958
Lunar Nirvana Dragon Rise:
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/25697
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/25696
Phoenix Dance (Lunar 95):
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/15991
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/15967

I personally don't really see how the TT Nirvana Sacred Legate set is an improvement from the TT99, and I don't think I'd want to spend extra money to upgrade a TT99 set to that. Rank 8 gear is also out of the question as my cleric shares account with my veno, psy and mage, and I want to be able to re-use the gear on all characters.

Sorry for the long post, but if anyone has any opinions or points that I've missed, please tell me and I'll be very grateful

Decus - Dreamweaver

So what you are asking is, either vanilla Lunar, vanilla TT99, or Lunar Nirvy? Forgive me if I have misunderstood.

Just so you know, I would say the cost of either TT99 or Lunar nirvy are about the same, with maybe TT99 nirvy being a tad cheaper. The base stats on Lunar nirvy are higher, but there are additional stats on TT99 nirvy to compensate for this. There was a lively discussion once about the circumstances on which percentile adds vs base stats were more effective. I forget the conclusion. Either way, it's not a huge deal-breaker.

If we are talking about true "endgame" gear, then shoot for G15 nirvy. If you need monetary advice, I'd say start merchanting. Lunar gold is nice, but hardly what I would consider endgame. Lunar nirvy is a far better option, though it is considerably more expensive. If you really want the set bonus from TT99, then aim for that. I don't much care for an extra +15 vit if it means I have to use gear I do not prefer, so that is something to consider as well.

Apologies in advance if I have not answered your question. It really comes down to what you do with your cleric. In PvE, even a mix of TT99 and lunar gold will be sufficient. In PvP, it depends.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There was a lively discussion once about the circumstances on which percentile adds vs base stats were more effective. I forget the conclusion. Either way, it's not a huge deal-breaker.

I've done the math for Barbs and BM (TT percentile vs Lunar's 33% higher base defense) where one might wear 1 physical ornie and 1 magical ornie, or 2 magical ornies. I've also done the math for Sins who usually wear 2 x TT99 physical ornies and LA. For BMs/Barbs it was a huge difference in defense favoring Lunar because HA has better defensive stats, and the percentile benefits of TT was only multiplying 1 physical ornie's stats. For Sin's, since LA has a lower defense range anyways it wasn't as much of a defense and when you add multiple 4% bonuses to well refined pdef ornies the difference in stats disappears. For AA it'd be pretty close to LA depending on what type of ornies you typically wear, but AA only gets a 2% bonus.

The percentile adds mutliply the defenses your ornies and rings refine for. So well refined ornies benefit from TT. But Lunar naturally is about 33% higher on their base defense. In general Lunar is better, but I've never done the math for AAs because the decision for me was easy since I have casters on 2 accounts and so Lunar Nirvana is the way I chose since it doesn't bind and TT does.

Anyway, percentile vs base defense. When someone debuffs you, the percentile defense bonuses are not affected, just the base defense. So you lose less when debuffed wearing TT armor. Likewise, when buffed (cleric buffs, base buffs, golden bell) the 2% adds are not multiplied so you gain less from buffs with TT than with Lunar. This makes TT a good choice for catabarbs being debuffed in TW, but not as good of a choice in general play. For Cleric's since we have our own buffs and are rarely the target of debuffs (people think they can kill us without) I suspect the Lunar would be better.

Frijolero - Sanctuary

Well, you need TT99 gear to get nirvana gear. So you can equip yourself with the Archangel's set while you farm the cannies to forge them into nirvana gear one piece at a time. That's what I'm doin' atm.

Oh, and one of the advantages of Nirvana gear over TT99 is the nice defense levels it gives once you get 2+ pices of it. The whole set gives you +13 def and +5 atk levels. Not bad for a squishy cleric.

Eoria - Harshlands

Going to tell you right now...do not bother with Lunar pants unless you plan on 2nd recasting them. The stat add-ons for plain Lunar gold and 1st recast are utter ****. You will need to 2nd recast them. The top, however, is pretty decent as just Lunar gold.

Keep in mind, however, if you ever want to do a Nirvana set, you need 2 2nd recast pieces for 5 atk levels, 5 pieces for 10 def levels, and 6 pieces for 3 def levels. These must be the same type. You cannot mix 3 Lunar pieces and 2 TT pieces and still get the 10 def level bonus. You can do 2 TT pieces for 5 atk levels and 2 Lunar pieces for 5 atk levels and get 10 atk levels though, but...atk levels are useless on a cleric.

Kanmi - Sanctuary

Chelestine - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I personally don't really see how the TT Nirvana Sacred Legate set is an improvement from the TT99

I'll just answer this since others pretty answer the rest

TT99 is G12 and nirvana is G15 which means more HP per refine level .

+5 TT99 AA wristguard gives + 155 HP
+5 Nirvana AA wristguard gives +201 HP

+10 TT99 AA wristguard gives + 602 HP
+ 10 Nirvana AA wristguard gives + 780 HP

Also Lunar Nirvana may seems more expensive at first but it's not bound... if you ever want to aim for something better in the future, you will still have the choice to resell it .

Chelestine - Heavens Tear

@ Decus: I suppose it's more of a matter if it's worth sticking with "crappier" gear (comparing stats of Lunar gold bottoms to TT99 bottoms) for however long it takes for me to farm the 75m it takes to make a second cast, or if it's better to aim for something that's still decent and acceptable, like the TT99 set, and stick with it. The TT99 set I can have ready for when I hit 99, whilst the Lunar Nirvana could take me months if not years to farm. One thing I also forgot to mention was that my cleric is only a secondary character, with the main focus being on my money-draining sin, who happens to be in front of the queue for nirvana recast.

@ Sakubatou: Thank you for clearing it up. I've long wondered about the advantage/disadvantage of the lower defence/more % of the two types.

@ Frijolero:

Well, you need TT99 gear to get nirvana gear. So you can equip yourself with the Archangel's set while you farm the cannies to forge them into nirvana gear one piece at a time.

If I did go for the TT99 set I probably wouldn't bother upgrading it to nirvana stage, as I see too few benefits in comparison to the price. But I have been thinking that it would probably be nice to have that option just in case I did find myself having 500 uncannies spare! With the Lunar Nirvana on the other hand, I would be stuck with the base lvl 95 for however long it takes for me to farm for the uncannies, as keeping the base wouldn't be an option.

@ Eoria:

Going to tell you right now...do not bother with Lunar pants unless you plan on 2nd recasting them

Yes, I've noticed that as well and the stats for the TT99 win hands down in that comparison. The pants are the first ones I'd make second cast though. I'm not too worried about getting the +5 attack level bonus, as it isn't very beneficial for a cleric, like you said. And I doubt I'd ever get any other nirvana pieces than the top and bottoms either.

@ Kanmi:

TT99 is G12 and nirvana is G15 which means more HP per refine level

I have noticed that the refine is a lot better on the nirvana because of the grade level, but IMO it's not worth spending that much extra money just to get a bit more hp. I don't usually refine any higher than +5 at most, and by spending a bit more money getting a +6 orb and refining the TT99 top for example, I would have gained the same amount of hp that the extra refine gives a +5 nirvana top. Of course the nirvana top has a lot better stats as well, but again, it all just comes down to the money.

I guess it's also a bit of a visual issue as well lol. I much prefer the look of the lunar nirvana compared to the TT nirvana or archangel set, but I guess it's not really worth spending that much money just for a visually better looking set of armour..

Kanmi - Sanctuary

b:laugh I have nirvana lunar chest and legs so yes it does look good .
As i don't use orb until +7, i don't currently know the cost of those . It was more like a lot of time spent in farming than extra money for me ( well time is money i guess...)
It takes much more patience and effort to get good piece only using in game money, so i totally agree that you want to spend your money wisely b:victory

Eoria - Harshlands

Chelestine - Heavens Tear wrote: »

One thing I also forgot to mention was that my cleric is only a secondary character, with the main focus being on my money-draining sin, who happens to be in front of the queue for nirvana recast.

If you're just planning on a sin for a farming char to farm gear for your cleric, then I would honestly suggest to stop. All the money you would end up sinking into a farming char could just go to your cleric instead.

thumbs

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

If you're just planning on a sin for a farming char to farm gear for your cleric, then I would honestly suggest to stop. All the money you would end up sinking into a farming char could just go to your cleric instead.

-Finally some sound advice on farming toons. Totally agree: A decent farming sin simply costs too much isn't more profitable at same expense and while having some advantages also has disadvantages.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

i remember getting lunar nirvana just for the extra MAG stats it gave over the TT nirvana o.o

Chelestine - Heavens Tear

If you're just planning on a sin for a farming char to farm gear for your cleric, then I would honestly suggest to stop. All the money you would end up sinking into a farming char could just go to your cleric instead.

Well, my sin is actually my main character and not just a "farming" character. If anything, it's more the other way around - my cleric is a supportive character for my sin and my boyfriends bm when running TT and other instances.

Downside - Lost City

I've been contemplating HH NV vs CV NV too. My cleric was my firs to 100 and my all-time favorite but yes I did make a 100 bm to farm because honestly endgame: no one wants or needs clerics as much as they need clerics before 100.

But to the OP:
If your cleric is not your main do not waste money on it. You don't need it and because clerics aren't that needed endgame don't waste money/effort.

Both sets have pros and cons but I think you have to think about what ornaments you use and how far you plan to refine all the gear on your cleric. And it really depends on whether you PvP or mainly PvE. If PvE just CV NV and PvP get HH. But to get end-game it would be best to NV everything.

Tbh. Don't get NV gear for your cleric unless you plan to spend 80% of your time playing it. For all your cleric needs end-game just get rank 8 gear, 5k hp, and a jones blessing.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

So much nihilism here *sadface*. Yes, if you create a farming sin you put alot of money in it and you end up in this cycle of making money to invest in making money to invest in making money... where you are constantly improving your farming char to farm faster and faster and the money doesn't make it where you originally intended.

However, is that such a bad thing that you end up investing the money in your farming char instead of your "main"?

Clerics are fun, and invest in them if you consider them playworthy. They honestly become more fun the less squishy you are and the more tankish/DD you become because you get to be suicidal. Its funny when you see an archer grab aggro on a mob, so you steal aggro from the archer, tank the mob, kill it, then just heal yourself. That's supporting your squad, right?

And honestly nowadays G15 isn't so super expensive. My goal is to farm the cannies for 5 pieces of G15 for my cleric. So far I've only farmed about 200 cannies, but that's because I've been buying raps from my squad to recast my claws a few times. Assuming I get those squared away I'll start buying cannies from my squads using the rap split and hopefully get 1250 cannies this month. One month of farming for "end game" gear isn't too bad.