Have seekers completely replaced BM's?

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »

Seekers are better at pulls *if they have bloodpaint*.

Seekers can solo Delta with a sin buffer, that's how much better they are at aoeing mobs. Once Yata is up, if they have bp, they are more or less invincible unless the mobs stun and the seeker didn't pop a vac.

A seeker without bp still massively out DDs a bm in AoE, and will probably massively out dd most of the squad + hf as well. The reason for this is that Yata hits every 1.5 seconds. Most casters take 2 seconds or more to channel/cast a spell. BMs can get off an Axe AoE every 2-2.5 seconds. Yata is basically the APS of AoEs, if that's how you want to view it. Only really Psychics spamming aoes can out aggro some vortexes (depending on wep refine and att level of both).

As for your sin question...
http://pwcalc.com/24ee1645956e2a40 random 2.86 BM +7 2 Socket GV
Unbuffed Phys Att Sparked: 8980-9431 (26972 max dam per sec)
Crit Rate: 19%
http://pwcalc.com/26da4cfac849d98b random 2.2 Sin Hook Thorn+3
Unbuffed Phys Att Sparked: 7591-9462 (20816 max dam per sec)
Crit Rate: 30%

Yes, the 2.22 hook Thorn Sin will out DD you, by quite a lot, due to crit rate, even when you are both sparked. At +4, the sin beats you in sheer damage alone. Even more so, since with their two chi skills they will almost, if not defacto, perma spark and you will not.

All this said, I watched my BF get into no less than five FCCs 90-99 on his BM just today and complete them. Some of these FCCs had multiple BMs, and a few had BMs who knew what they were doing b:shocked So I question the validity of your argument, basically. The FCCs are out there, you're either not looking hard enough, or long enough.

Also, FCC is not an "end game instance". It's the instance you use to GET to endgame. BMs are much more needed in farming instances than Seekers, period. Almost none of the end game instances involve mob pulls. Most Seekers hit 100 go "now what", and reroll a bm when they get rejected from everything like most casters do. They're wanted in Delta.... their yata gets sealed in Metal. So... Yeah. Delta.

I must be doing something wrong. My crit rate with GV's is 21%? 23% if I use leaf dance. b:surrender Oh, you didn't use masteries...

Whatever. When I do an FCC, I pull on my BM. Unless there's a 99 Sin with something better than +5 daggers, I'm gonna hold aggro against them (I'm thinking weapon proc generates aggro, so whatever). If there's a Seeker, I'll keep aggro against Vortex using AOE's, but then, Stun generates some decent aggro.

If someone else shows they can hold aggro against me on bosses, then I simply HF when they spark and let them tank it.

asdrfvzx

Seekers=FAIL against BMs b:laugh ,Seeker can't take a place of bm ,bcz seeker only can b good AoEr,and BMs are GOOD AoEr,DDer,PULLER b:victory so Bm is the WINNERb:cool

asdrfvzx

http://pwcalc.com/aac0d1696dfc03c3 see it and check how much PRO can BM v with Axes too, see its Aps with Axes too b:laughb:laughb:laughb:laugh BM is PROest Class in this game

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

asdrfvzx wrote: »

http://pwcalc.com/aac0d1696dfc03c3 see it and check how much PRO can BM v with Axes too, see its Aps with Axes too b:laughb:laughb:laughb:laugh BM is PROest Class in this game

The +20 vit stones and that tome aren't in game, so you fail.

Erryne - Sanctuary

asdrfvzx wrote: »

http://pwcalc.com/aac0d1696dfc03c3 see it and check how much PRO can BM v with Axes too, see its Aps with Axes too b:laughb:laughb:laughb:laugh BM is PROest Class in this game

This smell more of a noob, than a fish which was left to rot under the sun. Double so, since we talking fcc, aka leveling...

Asgardeus - Sanctuary

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

I must be doing something wrong. My crit rate with GV's is 21%? 23% if I use leaf dance. b:surrender Oh, you didn't use masteries...

Sounds like a fail LA bm. lol

And bm holding agro against sins same level? hahahaha Totally b:chuckle

Erryne - Sanctuary

Let's put thing back in perspective. I once runned with OP's bm, did a great job imho. 7-8k hp at lv92 or 93, and yes, it was a HA build.

Frankly, I have no idea why people refuse you, must keep on getting the wrong moronic squad of hyper noob or something. b:shocked

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Tank roles:
Seeker: Pulling, AOE, Boss Debuff
BM: Pulling, AOE, AOE Stun, DD, Tank, Amp
Demon Sin: Buff, DD, Tank if the BM or Barb can't hold aggro
Barb: Pulling, Buff, Boss Debuff, Tank

Support roles:
Cleric: Rezzer, Heals, Debuffs, DD
Mystic: Rezzer, Heals, DD, and lets face it the debuffs rarely work.
Sage Sin: Buff for heals, DD

Seekers make AOE pulls faster. They're good pullers because of DR. Let em pull while the BM charges chi.
BMs make killing everything faster. They're good pullers cause of stats and speed skills.
A 4 year old could run a barb pulling FF.

If you have all three in the same squad with equal gearing, in terms of pulling: Barb > Seeker > BM. Barb wins out specifically due to Beastial Rage needing the hits.

Seeker & BM vs 2 BMs seem to make the runs about the same length. With a lot of DDs the 2 BMs tend to make the bosses faster.

3 BMs and a Sin the bosses last about 15-20 seconds. Demon Spark and amp makes the world go round.

A Psy can pull most/all of FF in the 90s.

Find what works for you. If a party prefers longer runs with no amp or stun , so be it and go run 3-4 FFs in the time they run 2.

But if what you originally wrote is bothering you, you probably need to step away from your BM. Class envy and gear envy will burn you out.

Kerona - Sanctuary

I love how you ignored everything else I said and focused on the fact that the PWCalc had 2% less crit than you. If the sin is STILL not out aggroing you, they're on lazy mode or spark macroing or something is very, very wrong with their build.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »

I love how you ignored everything else I said and focused on the fact that the PWCalc had 2% less crit than you. If the sin is STILL not out aggroing you, they're on lazy mode or spark macroing or something is very, very wrong with their build.

No more along the lines of I had a bathroom emergency and was already 5 minutes late for work.

Whoo. 85 in a 55 along part of the highway to work. >_>

Eh. Most sins won't pull aggro off my BM if they try in FCC. If they do, I yeild to them. Sins don't do pulls. At least not the sane ones.

I just wanna be useful in FCC so I can get to 100 and start farming Nirvana. >_>

OJake - Raging Tide

[QUOTE=Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Eh. Most sins won't pull aggro off my BM if they try in FCC. If they do, I yeild to them. Sins don't do pulls. At least not the sane ones. >_>[/QUOTE]

Hmm... Sins w/ +3-5 H&T shouldn't hav problem taking & holding aggro from u even w/ +7 GVs ( unless they're sage or lower aps) because if they're pro like most lvl 90 ish sins I know, there crit rate & DMG is higher than that of a 90ish BM. & yes there r those sins out there that i could take aggro from at those lvls...& still even at 100, but that's rare now.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Seekers are more of a tank/zhen role than support role of BMs. BMs have amazing controls skills and better squad buffs. Support roles complement a tank/dd role, they accomplish different things.

Not to mention BMs are overall more useful in group PvP due to better group buffs/support skills and PvE farming bosses by DDing with fists...

snufalufaguss

So the basic consensus- Bm is jack of all trades, master of none. Unless you want to say it is the master of being versatile. Also, if you (as a bm) are not invited to a squad, then either a) you suck and word has spread of this or b) they suck and don't really know how valuable a bm is to any squad or c) they are racist against bms.

Hexalot - Dreamweaver

snufalufaguss wrote: »

So the basic consensus- Bm is jack of all trades, master of none. Unless you want to say it is the master of being versatile. Also, if you (as a bm) are not invited to a squad, then either a) you suck and word has spread of this or b) they suck and don't really know how valuable a bm is to any squad or c) they are racist against bms.

I vote (a). BMs have been around for too long now for the vast majority of the player base to not know and appreciate how valuable they are in squads. Even complete total noob squads love that snakey dragon thing (they probably have no idea what its called) doubling their damage.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I vote (a). BMs have been around for too long now for the vast majority of the player base to not know and appreciate how valuable they are in squads. Even complete total noob squads love that snakey dragon thing (they probably have no idea what its called) doubling their damage.

Yeah, I suck. *Unamused* Which is why the people I was FCCing with who already hit 100-101 are asking if I've hit 100 yet to do Nirvana now...

Asgardeus - Sanctuary

snufalufaguss wrote: »

So the basic consensus- Bm is jack of all trades, master of none. Unless you want to say it is the master of being versatile. Also, if you (as a bm) are not invited to a squad, then either a) you suck and word has spread of this or b) they suck and don't really know how valuable a bm is to any squad or c) they are racist against bms.

... or they are just sick of OPs negative attitude towards everything. I know I am.

Professor_X - Heavens Tear

In FF... BMs are only worth HF. Seekers can do it all (minus stuns, which aren't THAT important for a low instance like FF)

Outside of FF... BMs are still more useful because of HF, ROTP, and APS.

I still like my seeker though!

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary

I'd like to meet these seekers you people play with and smack them across the head. The class has been rained with doubt and uncertainty for so long now, it makes me think we have a bunch of lazy seekers running around.

And you don't need bloodpaint to pull..

_Nerox_ - Dreamweaver

Only for FC maybe, but at nirvy, gl finding a squad as a seeker

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

_Nerox_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Only for FC maybe, but at nirvy, gl finding a squad as a seeker

They can make non-HFable bosses HFable. I would imagine they shouldn't have THAT hard of a time. :x