New cleric skills (by Korren/Bubbles)

StacysMum - Dreamweaver

Kurisutina - Sanctuary wrote: »

I honestly don't see the problem with heals being disabled. Have decent defense, use armor charms, be hp/mp charmed, use apoth healing isn't necessary.

Because you would get wtfpwned even worst than you get wtfpwned now.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

StacysMum - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Because you would get wtfpwned even worst than you get wtfpwned now.

not really >.>

Hollyyy - Lost City

Who heals during pvp anyway unless its during TW? I know i dont. Plus, anyone pvping should have a charm and crabs anyway.

Another thing, people are forgetting that the higher level version of metal mage mode DOESN'T reduce your HP by 10%. So im not quite sure what you're all getting worked up about.

Decus - Dreamweaver

Hollyyy - Lost City wrote: »

Who heals during pvp anyway unless its during TW? I know i dont.

b:question

Vindis - Dreamweaver

"18691 "Purple Night Dance beta

Mana% d
Channel 1.6 seconds
Cast 1.6 seconds
Cooldown 15.0 seconds
Arms limitation instruments used, empty-handed"

from Asterelle's translation of the skills.

Oh I see that metal mage mode has a very short cast/chan time and a 15 sec cooldown. Could switching on the fly between the two when needed truthfully be that difficult? Would it not be similar to a BM switching between claws and axes when a situation merits it?

Seriously. Metal mage mode and normal clericing mode is not that different from how other classes already operate. Venos can switch between casting and fox. BMs (at least pro ones) can switch between 3-4 weapons when a situation merits the skill usage. I can even logic that many archers are able to switch to claws (as against archer aps claw use as I am) when mobs are too close or they need to tank.

Metal mage is exactly what it is, situational. Surely, not practical all the time, but it isn't meant to be used exclusively.

Most Clerics remind me of 2 quotes that Decus quoted the other night...

Kanmi - Sanctuary

Hollyyy - Lost City wrote: »

Who heals during pvp anyway unless its during TW? I know i dont. Plus, anyone pvping should have a charm and crabs anyway.

I do . Charm/HP food are bonus, nothing close of the cleric healing ability . Unless you've been attacked by Soulburn, WS can save you while your charm is in cooldown .

J_Voorhees - Heavens Tear

Hm, I do not quite understand, why the No Exp Loss skill is so good....

If it is a lvl 100 skill, what is the point then? Getting to lvl 101 is easy, and there is no real point in leveling any further.

If you get to learn it at lets say 70 ish it might be a usefull skill i admit, but then again, hypers are so cheap, leveling is so easy in this game. It still doesnt seem worth it in my eyes.

Lana - Raging Tide

J_Voorhees - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hm, I do not quite understand, why the No Exp Loss skill is so good....

If it is a lvl 100 skill, what is the point then? Getting to lvl 101 is easy, and there is no real point in leveling any further.

If you get to learn it at lets say 70 ish it might be a usefull skill i admit, but then again, hypers are so cheap, leveling is so easy in this game. It still doesnt seem worth it in my eyes.

Agreed, just a nice bonus not a must-have skill i guess.

Cedro - Sanctuary

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

"18691 "Purple Night Dance beta

Oh I see that metal mage mode has a very short cast/chan time and a 15 sec cooldown. Could switching on the fly between the two when needed truthfully be that difficult? Would it not be similar to a BM switching between claws and axes when a situation merits it?

Seriously. Metal mage mode and normal clericing mode is not that different from how other classes already operate. Venos can switch between casting and fox. BMs (at least pro ones) can switch between 3-4 weapons when a situation merits the skill usage. I can even logic that many archers are able to switch to claws (as against archer aps claw use as I am) when mobs are too close or they need to tank.

Metal mage is exactly what it is, situational. Surely, not practical all the time, but it isn't meant to be used exclusively.

Most Clerics remind me of 2 quotes that Decus quoted the other night...

Is 3.2 seconds to cast, and 15 seconds cooldown before casted again, in other with lag and normal delay, is a 20 seconds thing to go metal mode and then go back again to normal mode, yes is a big issue as 20 seconds is very long, how are you comparing it to venos fox form is beyond me, lets not even say BM and archers, since changing weapon is pretty much instantly done.

I'm keeping an eye on the wanmei forums and the official page, if there is any new improvement I will post it here, based on the large amount of QQ on wanmei forums, I will say they will make some changes to this mode.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

J_Voorhees - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hm, I do not quite understand, why the No Exp Loss skill is so good....

If it is a lvl 100 skill, what is the point then? Getting to lvl 101 is easy, and there is no real point in leveling any further.

If you get to learn it at lets say 70 ish it might be a usefull skill i admit, but then again, hypers are so cheap, leveling is so easy in this game. It still doesnt seem worth it in my eyes.

Is it the best skill? No.

Is it a good skill? Yes.

For example, I have sage rez. If I die, and no one is in squad who can rez me, I lose FULL xp. By saying that its not good, I would have to ask you, would you rather have me, who has level 11 sage revive to rez you, or would you rather have a cleric who has not leveled their rez past 1 to rez you. Everytime that a cleric dies, and has to run back, or has to scroll, that is essentially what they are doing. Level 11 sage/demon rez is not there for them. Not level 10 rez, not even level 2. We lose the whole percentage throughout, so a little reprieve at the end...when it requires millions upon millions to level is a nice relief. Do I believe that at around level 70 it would be better, sure. But better late than never. At least around endgame, with my rez what it is, now NO ONE, myself included has to worry about XP loss. So, yes, I'd say that its a good thing. Also, if you want to level past 101, which I admit that I do, then it is very helpful.

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Cedro - Sanctuary wrote: »

Is 3.2 seconds to cast, and 15 seconds cooldown before casted again, in other with lag and normal delay, is a 20 seconds thing to go metal mode and then go back again to normal mode, yes is a big issue as 20 seconds is very long, how are you comparing it to venos fox form is beyond me, lets not even say BM and archers, since changing weapon is pretty much instantly done.

I'm keeping an eye on the wanmei forums and the official page, if there is any new improvement I will post it here, based on the large amount of QQ on wanmei forums, I will say they will make some changes to this mode.

Idk, how you can't think of countless uses for metal mage mode...Do clerics really have that hard a time dealing with not healing themselves? Crabs work wonders, I should know since I have never ever healed myself on my archer (ToP not worth it IMO).

20 secs isn't that long of a time period. Given you won't use this on bosses, but you can switch to it when nothing is around (say you are doing BH SoT for example) and just DD like everyone else since no one really needs any heals in there if they are playing their classes right. If a squad can do full instances without a cleric healing them for 90% of the run, I don't see why a cleric can't DD for at least half of that if needed. (and before you say I don't know how to play a cleric, my gf mains one and I've healed several instances on my brothers, sometimes healing isn't as needed as you would think (slow/freeze/stun/seal).

I don't see why a cleric can't be in metal mode, and then switch to heals if heals are needed, then switch back when they get down time. PWI isn't a constant battle lol. There is alot of walking from mob to mob to boss. And everyone doesn't permacluster together in TW either.

Does anyone know what skills are still usable in metal mode? If Plume Shell is still usable, then its uses just went up a ton in my mind.

Cedro - Sanctuary

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

20 secs isn't that long of a time period. Given you won't use this on bosses

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If a squad can do full instances without a cleric healing them for 90% of the run, I don't see why a cleric can't DD for at least half of that if needed.

The damage increase is minimal... and you think MM / MM skills are for PVE well... Nevermind. b:bye

Chrisssss - Sanctuary

Yeah gotta agree I don't like investigation nore the one that makes you drop all DQ items. Only skill I really like is the new shell. Overall however I think the clerics really got screwed over with these new skills but who knows only time will tell how useful they are.

Well see how the sage and demon adds on will be if they have em assuming it will.

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Cedro - Sanctuary wrote: »

The damage increase is minimal... and you think MM / MM skills are for PVE well... Nevermind. b:bye

I listed some PvE examples to go with my previous PvP ones seeing as most of the PvP/TW related ones should be rather obvious (Ray and Aurora are pretty given) from the skill descriptions themselves and do not require much thought beyond that.

Feel free to tell me how the following have no useful PvE or PvP applications whatsoever...

Arc ray of disease: debuff ur target, increase the chance of taking crit dmg by 15%.

Sincere: give ur target Deaden Nerves buff, recover 50% hp when taking effect, last 8sec.

Tianyin thunderstorm symbol: metal mage version of soul burn! debuff ur target , each time he try to atk or use skill, he has 30% chance take phy dmg equal to ur magic atk. last 1min. 50chi

and additional damage when using normal attack skills in MM mode (Cyclone/Wield,etc)

Cedro - Sanctuary wrote: »

What the metal mage really needs to be effective is:

1. A good increase in damage: I was expecting a metal damage increase of 20-40% for god sake, miserable 6-7% in exchange of disabling all heals is just brutally unfair.

2. A buff skill that in crease our defense: Plume shield is just not enough, either a passive skill that increase our defense like verdant shield or make plume shield a 30 mins buff and it only takes half of the MP damage that it takes now.

3. An antistun skill.

4. A teleport away skill / Knockback skill.

5. Make the soulburn-like skill deal magic damage instead of physical, and raise the activation to 50% or more.

I mean, from your first post I can tell you want Clerics to be like Archers/Wizards (knockback/antistun/Distance Shrink), but realistically that is more class breaking than what you are actually getting. Pretty sure cleric got a bunch of support like debuff skills for MM mode because, lo and behold, Cleric is a support class. That is why they didn't get hax'd out DDing skills :P. And to disagree that the extra damage isn't better than not having it when one needs to DD is just ludicrous. Extra damage is always helpful.

Apologies for being one of the few people attempting to gain positive insight from the new skills (on page 2). I know you come across as a person enthralled in negativity (as evidenced by your first post), but honestly, it could have been worse. Sorry your wish list was not met, perhaps you meant to roll a mystic since you seem to want their buff and knockback? I mean who would even post such a list for a cleric (a support class)?

I would like to quote you here since I feel its relevant:

Cedro - Sanctuary wrote: »

...it seems that whoever made Cleric's skills [wishlist] knew nothing about clerics and just dropped random stuff on it and call[ed] it a day:

Back on topic, does anyone know what old skills are actually usable still in metal mode? before discounting the entire skill set?

Cedro - Sanctuary

TL;DR

Read this if you want some insight on why those new skills are not that good:

http://w2i.178.com/201112/117835439134_3.html

I don't agree with everything of this review (that seem quite old by now) but everything posted there is good enough to realize whoever made it has experience in the class. That's all feel free to quote me as much as you want not gonna answer to you anymore b:bye

Ceiba - Sanctuary

Chrisssss - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah gotta agree I don't like investigation nore the one that makes you drop all DQ items. Only skill I really like is the new shell. Overall however I think the clerics really got screwed over with these new skills but who knows only time will tell how useful they are.

Well see how the sage and demon adds on will be if they have em assuming it will.

It seems like they are stand alone skills with no sage/demon version (like 79/100 skills), but I agree it would be awesome if they had sage/demon versions, but is very unlikely.

Hollyyy - Lost City

Judging by the information surrounding obtaining the skills from each of the 3 factions, yes, i'd say they are stand alone.

J_Voorhees - Heavens Tear

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Is it the best skill? No.

Is it a good skill? Yes.

For example, I have sage rez. If I die, and no one is in squad who can rez me, I lose FULL xp. By saying that its not good, I would have to ask you, would you rather have me, who has level 11 sage revive to rez you, or would you rather have a cleric who has not leveled their rez past 1 to rez you. Everytime that a cleric dies, and has to run back, or has to scroll, that is essentially what they are doing. Level 11 sage/demon rez is not there for them. Not level 10 rez, not even level 2. We lose the whole percentage throughout, so a little reprieve at the end...when it requires millions upon millions to level is a nice relief. Do I believe that at around level 70 it would be better, sure. But better late than never. At least around endgame, with my rez what it is, now NO ONE, myself included has to worry about XP loss. So, yes, I'd say that its a good thing. Also, if you want to level past 101, which I admit that I do, then it is very helpful.

i disagree with u in this whole post i am sorry. When u play a cleric it is your role, and you do know it is your role to stand up without a rez. So when you choose to play cleric you should not qq about loosing exp upon death.
When I die in a squad, i ofc want a lvl 11 sage revive, since it is ,as a non cleric, not my role to get up and run all the way back int if the squad got wiped.

And the next thing is, we still do not know the prices of the new skill. I for sure would not even bother to get that skill. As i posted at lvl 70 it is very easy to lvl and at lvl 101 it is not important to lvl any further. If it is your goal tho to get the last 20 attribute points so get it.

Eillysium - Archosaur

You fanciful clerics are always looking for the best trades >.>. Dont you think there ARE other classes that DO have to go into an annoying and useless form to cast skills. coughvenocough*
Venos have to be constantly switching to fox form to be able to cast their debuffs. All you want is to be OP If you stack IH properly BEFORE switching to metal mage mode your HP bar will rarely go down. However what I do agree is that you should get more attck bonus to get the adventage of these skills. They DO know the class bitc.hes as THEY were the ones who DESIGNED them. You should shut up and get over it....

Prophete - Dreamweaver

J_Voorhees - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i disagree with u in this whole post i am sorry. When u play a cleric it is your role, and you do know it is your role to stand up without a rez. So when you choose to play cleric you should not qq about loosing exp upon death.
When I die in a squad, i ofc want a lvl 11 sage revive, since it is ,as a non cleric, not my role to get up and run all the way back int if the squad got wiped.

And the next thing is, we still do not know the prices of the new skill. I for sure would not even bother to get that skill. As i posted at lvl 70 it is very easy to lvl and at lvl 101 it is not important to lvl any further. If it is your goal tho to get the last 20 attribute points so get it.

Lol, you miss the part where 99% of the time the cleric dies because of other squadmates' fault.
I don't mind loosing full xp once in a while because of a squad fail, it happens to everyone.
But if you actually played a cleric for a while, you'd be pissed off and understand why this passive skill is nice.

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Eillysium - Archosaur wrote: »

You fanciful clerics are always looking for the best trades >.>. Dont you think there ARE other classes that DO have to go into an annoying and useless form to cast skills. coughvenocough*
Venos have to be constantly switching to fox form to be able to cast their debuffs. All you want is to be OP If you stack IH properly BEFORE switching to metal mage mode your HP bar will rarely go down. However what I do agree is that you should get more attck bonus to get the adventage of these skills. They DO know the class bitc.hes as THEY were the ones who DESIGNED them. You should shut up and get over it....

+1. Finally, someone able to think outside the box (or would bubble be a better word? b:chuckle).

Cedro - Sanctuary wrote: »

TL;DR

*glances at Cedro's post on the first page*

Glad to know 3 paragraphs, your own quotes and 3 of the new cleric skill descriptions are beyond your reading comprehension. No wonder you were having so much trouble in the first place. b:chuckle

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

J_Voorhees - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i disagree with u in this whole post i am sorry. When u play a cleric it is your role, and you do know it is your role to stand up without a rez. So when you choose to play cleric you should not qq about loosing exp upon death.When I die in a squad, i ofc want a lvl 11 sage revive, since it is ,as a non cleric, not my role to get up and run all the way back int if the squad got wiped.

And the next thing is, we still do not know the prices of the new skill. I for sure would not even bother to get that skill. As i posted at lvl 70 it is very easy to lvl and at lvl 101 it is not important to lvl any further. If it is your goal tho to get the last 20 attribute points so get it.

You seem to have misunderstood me.

I was explaining to you WHY this is a good skill for clerics to have...not qq'ing about XP loss. Of course, I get up, scroll up, purchase scrolls, run back to the entrance, and rez my teammates because that is INDEED part of a cleric's role. Also, if I die because of a mistake of a teammate, then I do have the right to QQ. That's not what I'm doing here though. I was explaining WHY it is a nice skill for a cleric to have. Also, you wanting a level 11 rez to save your xp, as you die in squad as a non cleric, and wait for a poor cleric to run all the way back, rez you, and heal you, then feel that they shouldn't want or like something that saves their xp is unfair.

The second paragraph in yellow, you missed the point again. I'm not mentioning price or anything. I'm stating that this is WHY the skill is nice to have. Not losing XP like the rest of the squad is fun and nice for a cleric. That's why we like it. It helps a little on the cannot rez myself issue. At least our XP is safe even if we do have to buy scrolls, and run all the way back at times.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Eillysium - Archosaur wrote: »

You fanciful clerics are always looking for the best trades >.>. Dont you think there ARE other classes that DO have to go into an annoying and useless form to cast skills. coughvenocough*
Venos have to be constantly switching to fox form to be able to cast their debuffs. All you want is to be OP If you stack IH properly BEFORE switching to metal mage mode your HP bar will rarely go down. However what I do agree is that you should get more attck bonus to get the adventage of these skills. They DO know the class bitc.hes as THEY were the ones who DESIGNED them. You should shut up and get over it....

what idiot would do that and how long do u think an IH stack lasts, add to that the casting/switching seconds.

Moonlight_xo - Heavens Tear

Whats the point of playing a cleric if you cannot heal?
If you want to DD as a magic class, play a wizard.
I'm sticking to heals.
It would be nice to get a anti-stun yes but other then that no.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

I'd also like that both fox form and true form for barbs ENHANCE their roles in squad. Yes they have to give up somethings, but it enhances their role in squad. Venos gain access to more powerful debuffs and barbs tank much better in true form. Also true form doesn't stop a barb from tanking or a veno from using their pet/debuffing. Which is their main role in squad. If true form suddenly stopped allowing barbs to tank or fox form prevented venos from debuffing or using their pets, but for a slight increase in damage. Nobody would use it and everyone would complain. Metal Mage mode stops a cleric from doing their job in squad.

Eillysium - Archosaur

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

what idiot would do that and how long do u think an IH stack lasts, add to that the casting/switching seconds.

You know my post is totally correct the purpose of metal mage mode is not to stay there for THAT long is to give a temporal boost to the DD power on clerics. As I said you COULD use more bonus to have more adventage of this. Dont you see the purpose? let me just give you an example. *battle starts* Sleep>MetalMage>Debuff>Spark>Thunder>Defeated OR Sleep>Metal Mage> Debuff>Tempest>Defeated. If that fails then metal mage has no fault YOU do for being undergeared. The only thing that you needed to match wizards BIDS was a little boost of your metal damage now you APPARENTLY (cause we are forgetting that these skills are just a rumor) have it so go pwn light and heavys bit.ches. For arcanes just use the same triple sparked plume shot possibly combined with the charm cooldown debuff. There is so many things to do. The devs just cant give you all directly you have to learn how to play.

Ok now for PVE.. Well if the tank is competent enough you could stack him and go DD the hell out of the boss.

PS. Hell why am I saying all this if you want dont use it. Or you could with no problem switch constantly like venos no veno has been banned for spamming fox form ijs....

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Eillysium - Archosaur wrote: »

You know my post is totally correct the purpose of metal mage mode is not to stay there for THAT long is to give a temporal boost to the DD power on clerics. As I said you COULD use more bonus to have more adventage of this. Dont you see the purpose? let me just give you an example. *battle starts* Sleep>MetalMage>Debuff>Spark>Thunder>Defeated OR Sleep>Metal Mage> Debuff>Tempest>Defeated. If that fails then metal mage has no fault YOU do for being undergeared. The only thing that you needed to match wizards BIDS was a little boost of your metal damage now you APPARENTLY (cause we are forgetting that these skills are just a rumor) have it so go pwn light and heavys bit.ches. For arcanes just use the same triple sparked plume shot possibly combined with the charm cooldown debuff. There is so many things to do. The devs just cant give you all directly you have to learn how to play.

Ok now for PVE.. Well if the tank is competent enough you could stack him and go DD the hell out of the boss.

PS. Hell why am I saying all this if you want dont use it. Or you could with no problem switch constantly like venos no veno has been banned for spamming fox form ijs....

not sure about archo but in the more populated servers, at least in TWs, youll be dead or stunned by the time your casting debuff. Maybe our TWs are just busier...

risingblood

Eillysium - Archosaur wrote: »

You fanciful clerics are always looking for the best trades >.>. Dont you think there ARE other classes that DO have to go into an annoying and useless form to cast skills. coughvenocough*
Venos have to be constantly switching to fox form to be able to cast their debuffs. All you want is to be OP If you stack IH properly BEFORE switching to metal mage mode your HP bar will rarely go down. However what I do agree is that you should get more attck bonus to get the adventage of these skills. They DO know the class bitc.hes as THEY were the ones who DESIGNED them. You should shut up and get over it....

I have to say that is dumbest response I've read through this entire thread.

"Don't you think there are other classes do have to go into annoying useles sform to cast skills"

Considering a Veno and a Barb are both INSTANT cast into switching forms and increase their running speed you can't compare a arcane cleric taking 3 seconds to change forms and running at 4.8 speeds per second. Also, Veno's get an INSANE amount of defence increase AND they can purge while their nix **** the living **** out of you.

Also, clerics need something similar to Mystic's Falling Petals, not giving yourself IH that only lasts for 15 seconds. Giving yourself IH and then switching to metal mage mode is so inconvenient. Oh, and may I add while you switch to metal mage mode "sin pops out" trolololol.

Cedro - Sanctuary

A lot of people were complaining today about Clerics lackluster new skills on wanmei forums, if this keep going a major overhaul may happen.

The concept behind Metal Mage is not bad, is just poorly implemented, its obvious that is an idea that they stole from WOW. I would love metal mage mode if it increased Physical Defense alongside magical attack, allowed us to use bless skills, and had some antistun skill, it would be much more usable, you could turn when the time were right to help DD, then turn back when you need to heal teammates, not a big thing.

As it is, it actually weakens the cleric, not only because it disables heals and blessings (plume shell too?), but also and even in PVE, any competent, decently geared cleric, actually outdamages his own metal mage counterpart using efficiently demon spirit gift / Sage Magic Shell instead of the purple dance (both seems disabled in MM mode), and both cast next to instantly with enough channeling and even if they last for only 10 seconds, they are spammable and refreshable, also you dont need to turn back into normal mode. (it takes 3.2 seconds to go metal mage form / 3.2 seconds to go back to normal mode, also this was just an example of how badly MM mode limit us).

So the only reason to cast it would be to put some subpar curses on the target that wont kill anything by themselves. b:surrender, guess that the only use I find for it would be triple spark + HP Curse on catas below the crystals b:surrender

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

risingblood wrote: »

I have to say that is dumbest response I've read through this entire thread.

"Don't you think there are other classes do have to go into annoying useles sform to cast skills"

Considering a Veno and a Barb are both INSTANT cast into switching forms and increase their running speed you can't compare a arcane cleric taking 3 seconds to change forms and running at 4.8 speeds per second. Also, Veno's get an INSANE amount of defence increase AND they can purge while their nix **** the living **** out of you.

Also, clerics need something similar to Mystic's Falling Petals, not giving yourself IH that only lasts for 15 seconds. Giving yourself IH and then switching to metal mage mode is so inconvenient. Oh, and may I add while you switch to metal mage mode "sin pops out" trolololol.

theres probably more of them on that server