Assassin Change Suggestion

tfi2f

Please note well that the recent patch demonstrates that there is a full capability for the Assassin class to be modified and grounded.

The patch modified the Assassin's stealth skill to prevent them from using stealth while pulling a catapult. As a loosely code-related worker, I can just imagine that this code change would have been done in the actual code for the stealth skill. As part of the "enter stealth" sequence, within that code for entering stealth the change would have been something like:

"IF (player is pulling a catapult == TRUE) THEN return ERROR".

In other words, the change would almost definitely have been a part of the actual code for entering stealth, DIRECTLY. In other words, the developers know where in the source base the code for entering stealth is. That means that modifying assassins is not an issue of maintenance, or difficulty to make the changes.

It's not like this code was written a million years ago and they don't remember how to change it (Q_Q), or anything like that. They can change it at will. So why not implement the changes to stealth that players have been asking for for SO LONG?

1. Shadow Escape should have a much higher cooldown. 5 minutes.
2. Shadow Escape should TAKE AWAY a spark and not GIVE a spark.
3. Inner Harmony should have a much higher cooldown. 3 minutes.
4. 2 spark from stealth should also pop the sin.

It's obviously not a difficult thing to implement. Get to work please. It's not hard to do and can be done by tomorrow night. Without a doubt.

krittycat

tfi2f wrote: »

Please note well that the recent patch demonstrates that there is a full capability for the Assassin class to be modified and grounded.

The patch modified the Assassin's stealth skill to prevent them from using stealth while pulling a catapult. As a loosely code-related worker, I can just imagine that this code change would have been done in the actual code for the stealth skill. As part of the "enter stealth" sequence, within that code for entering stealth the change would have been something like:

"IF (player is pulling a catapult == TRUE) THEN return ERROR".

In other words, the change would almost definitely have been a part of the actual code for entering stealth, DIRECTLY. In other words, the developers know where in the source base the code for entering stealth is. That means that modifying assassins is not an issue of maintenance, or difficulty to make the changes.

It's not like this code was written a million years ago and they don't remember how to change it (Q_Q), or anything like that. They can change it at will. So why not implement the changes to stealth that players have been asking for for SO LONG?

1. Shadow Escape should have a much higher cooldown. 5 minutes.
2. Shadow Escape should TAKE AWAY a spark and not GIVE a spark.
3. Inner Harmony should have a much higher cooldown. 3 minutes.
4. 2 spark from stealth should also pop the sin.

It's onbiously not a difficult thing to implement.

The thing is, they apparently don't want to implement it. On any F2P game, there will always be the "OP class" that everyone wants to play. That's part of the allure of F2P games... you can be "amazing", even if you truly aren't.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

tfi2f wrote: »

It's not like this code was written a million years ago and they don't remember how to change it (Q_Q), or anything like that. They can change it at will. So why not implement the changes to stealth that players have been asking for for SO LONG?

Hi new user!

Apparently you haven't been around here for long. The original development team left shortly after PW was created. Judging PWE's inability to do quite a number of things with the game client and how it works, it's very apparent that the source was never annotated properly and/or is quite confusing or is just a plain mess.

In any event, this is a nearly decade old game engine and it's easy to believe that the new junior ranks of PWE have very little actual programming knowledge and most game client work is either contracted/outsourced. PWE is a design and publishing company. Even when it comes to reusing the old engine and just changing content as would any modding group would do, they still fail at it.

PWE has never created their own game engine as far as I am aware of. They've only modded the Angelica 3D engine to try to create different games with various levels of mostly non-success.

So if I were to come to your house and ask if your plumbing and electricity were up to code, how would you know if you weren't there to inspect it when it was done, and how would you be able to easily correct it without tearing down all the walls? Well, you wouldn't.

b:bye

llamalover

so im guessing this whole cant stealth in tw lowered attack and defence levels as well. my sin doesnt seem the same after this new patchb:puzzled

Alasen - Heavens Tear

lol Michael... cept it's the NEW devs that made TB.......

but as to the original post..... just no.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Alasen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

lol Michael... cept it's the NEW devs that made TB.......

but as to the original post..... just no.

No one said WHEN that class was actually coded in the game, we just know when it was released.

Alasen - Heavens Tear

um ya good point. wasn't all the fashion in the files for a long time and they just release one here one there.. ? so.... ya hell idk

bearyflair

How about QQ'ing about something that's really broken? Barbs aggro skills need to give more aggro and the same goes for the Venos' pets. While at it, Flesh Realm and Devour should not require chi to be able to cast, thus making them more spammable for the Barbs to keep aggro from the 5 APS ppl.

VKnightV - Lost City

yes and plz make bramble hood and guard off veno work in open pk and demon roar work in open pk with no damage reduction then we will see a more balanced pvp

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

As far as I know, any race that isn't the original 6 were developed in China by the new set of developers. I don't remember it ever being argued that the developers didn't have the ability to create and tweak the new classes, it was the old classes that were believed to be more difficult because the original developer of those classes are long gone. It's not that the can't, it's that they already sold a lot of people a certain product and they aren't going to make them rage. Instead they are working on more roundabout ways to make the sins and with it aps less effective. EG Sins can't stealth while pulling catas, pop out of stealth at 3 spark, caster nirvana, tweaking TT that sort of thing.

Skulla - Dreamweaver

KrittyCat wrote: »

The thing is, they apparently don't want to implement it. On any F2P game, there will always be the "OP class" that everyone wants to play. That's part of the allure of F2P games... you can be "amazing", even if you truly aren't.

^This kind of "answer" infuriates me like nothing else can.
When you say stuff like that what you're basically saying is that the people who create these games intentionally make game breaking modifications and that you're willing to ignore the problem because 'that's just the way it is'.

See, the problem is 'that's just the way it is' because you ignore the problem.

If the people who are out there creating these OP toons and cheating through instances to level them and then dropping obscene(for a game) amounts of cash to gear those toons didn't play along with the 'devs' that would be a step in the right direction.

If people (like you) didn't just 'roll over' and say 'that's just the way it is' that would be another step in the right direction.

If we all got together and stepped in the right direction, guess what the 'devs' would be compelled to do?

That's right... step in the right direction.

But as long as people are willing to accept what is wrong around them that's all they'll get and that's all they deserve.

Ostriches bury their heads in the sand, people aren't supposed to. We're supposed to walk around with our heads held high and our backs straight.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Feel free to contact PWE and let them know how you feel. I do. Too bad they never bother to respond.

Aizza - Harshlands

Question -

Your out farming - watching green dots, hitting T

- A higher Sin pops out of stealth, stun locks/kills you

- or a higher Wiz drops down fast, sleeps/kills you

- or a higher Archer drops down fast, stuns you/kills you

- etc...

The only difference here is the Sin can stealth. In all of these cases, your still dead. So why hate on the Sin's stealth?

IF a Sin is lower and pops out of stealth, you should know enough by now how to get out of their stun locks and turn to kill them. The average Sin has fairly low HP and is rather squishy.

Think about it please.

Skulla - Dreamweaver

Aizza - Harshlands wrote: »

Question -

Your out farming - watching green dots, hitting T

- A higher Sin pops out of stealth, stun locks/kills you

- or a higher Wiz drops down fast, sleeps/kills you

- or a higher Archer drops down fast, stuns you/kills you

- etc...

The only difference here is the Sin can stealth. In all of these cases, your still dead. So why hate on the Sin's stealth?

IF a Sin is lower and pops out of stealth, you should know enough by now how to get out of their stun locks and turn to kill them. The average Sin has fairly low HP and is rather squishy.

Think about it please.

First, that's not a question.

Second, given your hypothetical examples all pertain to higher levels attacking lower levels they are already moot.

Third, stealth in and of itself is not the game breaker that most people are arguing. There are multiple skills available to Sins that make them game breakers. Shadow Walk, Bloodpaint, Deaden Nerves, Shadow Escape, Shadow Teleport. None of this even touches on the number of control skills available to the class.
The class in total was/is designed to be the game breaker OP class. There were/are ways to balance it so that it need not be so.

Fourth, I am still trying to puzzle out why you even bothered posting something like this.
It doesn't indicate whether you think the class is OP or you think the class is balanced. In fact it seems to be nothing more than an attempt at avoiding a commitment to either position.

Take a position, try to defend it and then win or lose. It's really that simple.

Aquyla - Heavens Tear

Aizza - Harshlands wrote: »

The only difference here is the Sin can stealth.

And they have thousand and one skill that gives them chi and that they can spark and kill everything much faster, while barb for example have all aggro skills that use chi, not gain. in dungeon if you don't have genie with cloud eruption or don't pull 10 mobs while you're under bestial rage you can't spam aggro skills, which are pretty much useless in this state of game.

but enough about that. the reason that one class is op is simple: people will pay to push that class to the limits and to be the best, thus spending large sum of money without even realizing so. 90% of people have fish alts probably. think about it: you're doing some job for hefty sum of money, you're doing it wrong and don't care about it and as long as you get your paycheck you don't care if the job is done right or wrong. all that matters is paycheck.

Lyritha - Heavens Tear

we can give them a chance with their fancy new expansion that doesn't introduce new classes.... but new skills for all classes.

http://w2i.wanmei.com

I'm usually pessimistic when it comes to their announcements but he lets give them a chance... it might not suck.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

KrittyCat wrote: »

The thing is, they apparently don't want to implement it. On any F2P game, there will always be the "OP class" that everyone wants to play. That's part of the allure of F2P games... you can be "amazing", even if you truly aren't.

this part was funny

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Aizza - Harshlands wrote: »

Question -

Your out farming - watching green dots, hitting T

- A higher Sin pops out of stealth, stun locks/kills you

- or a higher Wiz drops down fast, sleeps/kills you

- or a higher Archer drops down fast, stuns you/kills you

- etc...

The only difference here is the Sin can stealth. In all of these cases, your still dead. So why hate on the Sin's stealth?


Think about it please.

That doesnt really make sense. If you are actively looking at green dots and checking the T filter you can see both the archer and the wiz coming and keep an eye on them. If they prepare an attack you can ready your defenses and strike back.

The sin meanwhile can be buffing up and sparking right on top of you totally impervious to anything and without your knowledge no matter how attentive you are of your surroundings. A sin in stealth doesn't even have a shadowy outline or anything. Even if you know the exact position of the sin you can't use any aoe's unless they happen to stand on top of a mob (seeker edged blur is the only exception, all other genie/class aoe's need target).

Lenestro - Sanctuary

Aizza - Harshlands wrote: »

Question -

Your out farming - watching green dots, hitting T

- A higher Sin pops out of stealth, stun locks/kills you

- or a higher Wiz drops down fast, sleeps/kills you

- or a higher Archer drops down fast, stuns you/kills you

- etc...

The only difference here is the Sin can stealth. In all of these cases, your still dead. So why hate on the Sin's stealth?

IF a Sin is lower and pops out of stealth, you should know enough by now how to get out of their stun locks and turn to kill them. The average Sin has fairly low HP and is rather squishy.

Think about it please.

yes, and if the sins meets his/her match they can just pop back in stealth and try again.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Lenestro - Sanctuary wrote: »

yes, and if the sins meets his/her match they can just pop back in stealth and try again.

Neh, not if they're fighting another sin. Also, not if Escape is on CD.

I've gotten into places in TW where Escape was on CD and I was stabbing someone with too much in the way of defenses. I smelled after i died.

Empu - Sanctuary

Skulla - Dreamweaver wrote: »

^This kind of "answer" infuriates me like nothing else can.
When you say stuff like that what you're basically saying is that the people who create these games intentionally make game breaking modifications and that you're willing to ignore the problem because 'that's just the way it is'.

See, the problem is 'that's just the way it is' because you ignore the problem.

If the people who are out there creating these OP toons and cheating through instances to level them and then dropping obscene(for a game) amounts of cash to gear those toons didn't play along with the 'devs' that would be a step in the right direction.

If people (like you) didn't just 'roll over' and say 'that's just the way it is' that would be another step in the right direction.

If we all got together and stepped in the right direction, guess what the 'devs' would be compelled to do?

That's right... step in the right direction.

But as long as people are willing to accept what is wrong around them that's all they'll get and that's all they deserve.

Ostriches bury their heads in the sand, people aren't supposed to. We're supposed to walk around with our heads held high and our backs straight.

I pretty much agree with you, except that, to me, the main problem isn't the ones sayint "it's just the way it is". Indirectly they admit something is wrong. The ones that "infuriate" me most, are those who say nothing is wrong and everything perfectly balanced. I never know if they honestly think so, or just like to have to play an OP class. They are easily recognised by their slogan : "nobody wants 2h+ TT back". The idiocy behind that statement and the majority of their arguments, really enrage me.

However, as long as that stays the mind-set of the majority ingame, things won't change. At least, the number of ppl realising the lack of balance, and the bad influence on the game it generates, seem to grow. From my point of view, there are 2 major problems : Sins stealth, and a general balance problem between classes PvE and PvP. For both, many solutions have been sugested. Including very viable and doable solutions.

Sins stealth is mainly a PvP problem. Besides fcc and a few fb, the "kill count" requirement pretty much takes away the advantage of it (yes, every instance should have a kill count requirement to avoid stealth abuse). PvP wise, sins really don't need stealth under the "squishy-ness" argument. With :
- Deaden nerves
- Tidal protection or focussed mind
- 2 sprint buffs, 1 assorted with anti-stun
- 2 instant teleports with very long range, 1 assorted with stun
- and a long ranged channel interuption
Sins have all means necessary to close in on a target and use control skills. Heck, bm's might even need stealth more then sins. The ability to hide ethernally from whoever can kill you is OP in PvP. Some good solutions have been suggested ever sins came out, like :
- Have stealth consume chi instead of mp, to massively reduce time and counter the spark + control skill combos
- Have the end of stealth assorted with some massive attack reduction (that can't be purified ofc), something like -50 att lvls for 5~10sec.
- Give stealth a chance to be knocked out when close to a player, before actually hitting them

Ofc, there will still be the problem of the major imbalance that grew with time. All bosses and mobs are really out of phase with current gear lvl. Same can be said of the skills, when the static added damage is really low in comparaison to weapons damage. I think it wouldn't be to hard to fix that, without totally **** the ones without OP gear. They actually already introduced the solution with tb expension : soulforce. With the mechanism already existing, it shouldn't be so hard to make a sort of ponderation to keep instances challenging. And most importantly, to prevent excessive soloing

Okeano - Harshlands

Aizza - Harshlands wrote: »

Question -

Your out farming - watching green dots, hitting T

- A higher Sin pops out of stealth, stun locks/kills you

- or a higher Wiz drops down fast, sleeps/kills you

- or a higher Archer drops down fast, stuns you/kills you

- etc...

The only difference here is the Sin can stealth. In all of these cases, your still dead. So why hate on the Sin's stealth?

IF a Sin is lower and pops out of stealth, you should know enough by now how to get out of their stun locks and turn to kill them. The average Sin has fairly low HP and is rather squishy.

Think about it please.

Then from now on, just drop down fast, don't use stealth again, since "they are the same" k b:bye.