Wellspring Quaff
Comments
-
Sure, if sins want to, they can always find ways to get you when your apo is on cooldown. I am just saying that it's more useful to save the cooldown for defensive use, because our offense should be good enough without the 2 spark apoth.
I never use pitfall because the chance is really really low on the sage/lvl 10 version, granted. I was just talking about hailstorm. I really don't have a problem to gain chi while kiting, it's pretty easy with the right timing between shrink, fow, hailstorm, pyro, dropping/flying again, fortify (and maybe badge for the random occult ice) and chi skill/ele shell. Sure the additional demon disables are really useful for sure, but you don't really need em, it's not like they will make you kite a good sin. But then again, nothing does as you pointed out yourself.
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."
- Jaya Ballard, Task Mage0 -
the question was, how to demons gain chi not do demons get chi better than sages. :PArenaceous - Lost City wrote: »Sure, if sins want to, they can always find ways to get you when your apo is on cooldown. I am just saying that it's more useful to save the cooldown for defensive use, because our offense should be good enough without the 2 spark apoth.
I never use pitfall because the chance is really really low on the sage/lvl 10 version, granted. I was just talking about hailstorm. I really don't have a problem to gain chi while kiting, it's pretty easy with the right timing between shrink, fow, hailstorm, pyro, dropping/flying again, fortify (and maybe badge for the random occult ice) and chi skill/ele shell. Sure the additional demon disables are really useful for sure, but you don't really need em, it's not like they will make you kite a good sin. But then again, nothing does as you pointed out yourself.Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze0 -
BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »Most try for 5, ijs
Yeah oops i forgot I suck at wizzy -.-
im supposed to beat server lag and hit thru that stun!
FML i quit xD b:surrenderb:surrenderb:surrender0 -
Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »pretty sure demon freezes (50%+33%) stuns (50%+20%) and such combined with a shorter FOW cooldown and a longer blink make building chi pretty easy since each 3 second freeze/stun is a free 30+ chi (pyro+ gush+skill) and with only SR, pit, and hail you get something like an 80% chance of 1 procing.
That's a different way to look at it. I still think sage is superior at building chi, but you definitely raise a good point for demon.Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »Elemental shell, Divine Pyrogram, Glacial Snare, Sandstorm are my main skills.
I use my chi for distance shrink mainly.
P.S. On downtime, I use my alternative genie for cloud eruption (same genie I use for fights against nonfactors. My main PK genie doesn't have cloud, but by the time I switch to it I already have 200+ chi).
hmm I'll try out using the slower skills. I always thought that trying to get off 2-3 poke skills was better for chi, but if it works for you it might work for me?
And I have an alternative genie as well. It's also my TW genie, but it's pretty much only around for cloud.
Using those things you can easily get an ultimate off without demon distance shrink or MS...BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »So now, having been proven wrong, you change the subject from MS range to its channeling time? lolololol
vacuity, fortify, demon well spring, sutra, zooming thunder powder, etc. etc. etc. all make MS easily useable when its in range.BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »Oh, and how about a sins freeze? Yes, demon distance shrink is such a burden there. Frozen, you can't move, but you want to be 5m CLOSER? lol
With their teleport it really doesn't matter which you have...BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »Any wizard worth their salt would trade demon DS for sage anyday.
I agree. Any wizard worth their salt would trade the demon version for the sage version. It's much better on chi and doesn't have an annoyingly long distance. Good to see you finally see things my way b:cuteBLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »Well, at least this time you said it "seems" that way. But again, you aren't a demon wizard.
"It seems to me that a woman's period would be fun to have . . . . "
Makes about as much sense as you saying what playing a demon wizard would "seem" to be.
OMG, sage wizard... a sage wizard
You have no experience... as a demon wizard, yet you say its hard.
You have trouble building chi as a sage wizard?!?!?!?!?!?!
now you admit that you as a sage wizard can't.
I'll post this link again since you seemed to miss it last time...BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »Ever think the chi problem you are having has nothing to do with sage vs demon, but its just you?
Sure. I have the tendency to burn chi pretty quickly. Mizuno and Josh both had interesting takes on how to build/conserve chi. I still have plenty to learn about my culti and class, but you consistently post complete nonsense... that usually has nothing to do with the wizard class. You're guilty of what you accused Adroit of doing to you- you're fixated on me. Well it's flattering, but I'd rather you stop b:bye.0 -
Killanator, I think he misses Adroit :O
As for the chi discussion,
I don't normally struggle for chi much at all since i've started using pyrogram a little more and gush a little less. have a mg vs ep recording where i noticed i should be using pyro instead of gush more also >.> if your blowing all your chi at once, it means its probably your only option to kill someone who way outgears you. or your trying to rush the fight.
been about 3-4months back now, but i found i was trying to rush and go for the quick kill and it was causing me to over extend chi/apoth/charm cooldowns and getting me killed. Once i started playing a little more relaxed and letting my opponent use his resources to chase me i found that after a couple minutes most ppl are completely out of chi/genie/apoth enough that i can jsut sutra or charm bypass with ease. Also kiting around in air allows for the use of more pyrogram seal pyro>wotp>blink if they get in your face and such. I've found that it builds chi pretty fast while maintaining most of your control skills/genies and apoths.
Perfect example, was fighting a mage the other day who out gears me by about 18JoSD. He was using his genie to HP after me sleep me, or distance shrink closer to me. by the time he ever really got to where he could use more hten one skill he had chi for bt only which didnt kill me. after tanking a bt, just a quick sutra and he dropped 2/3 fights. the first fight his one skill that he got in range with hit me for 9.5k charm bypass b:surrender
Just a few of the things i do to build chi, and i have to agree with Josh about demon control skills=sage chi gain. everytime a control skill procs. thats 20-30 free chi depending on the skills. If your alternating using them, as you should, it should build chi almost as fast as a sage wizzie -master li tech.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
b:laugh I'm sure he does.
Yeah I'm r8 and on PvE servers only r9s, +10 r8s, and sins seem to ever pk so I'm usually fighting an uphill battle b:surrender
You're right about rushing fights. The problem with me is that I might underestimate somebody and just go for the quick kill, because a lot of the time I can do just that when I'm fighting people that have no idea what they're doing.
And rushing fights might be why my chi seems to go so quickly? With procs, the average chi gain of a demon wiz is probably fairly close to a sage's chi gain over so much time
When I think about it, it's true that when I fight a good player for a long time that chi isn't too big an issue. I guess the lesson here is to never underestimate opponents and kite everybody equally b:chuckle0 -
DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »kite everybody equally b:chuckle
thats what i do. seems to work pretty well.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I see a lot more sage mages blowing their metaphorical wad early. then again I've had a demon mage prock SR 3 times in a row on my bm with full chi and not follow through.Gifs are hard to make work here0
-
I think it is because sages really have to rely more on their two spark skills, be it sutra or ultis and some don't find the balance between blowing chi and being too cheap to spend it. Because let's admit it, if we had to fight without chi (Maybe only the chi for shrink or sleep) demons would perform far far better..."Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."
- Jaya Ballard, Task Mage0 -
Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »I think it is because sages really have to rely more on their two spark skills, be it sutra or ultis and some don't find the balance between blowing chi and being too cheap to spend it. Because let's admit it, if we had to fight without chi (Maybe only the chi for shrink or sleep) demons would perform far far better...
Was the ideaGifs are hard to make work here0 -
Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »I think it is because sages really have to rely more on their two spark skills, be it sutra or ultis and some don't find the balance between blowing chi and being too cheap to spend it. Because let's admit it, if we had to fight without chi (Maybe only the chi for shrink or sleep) demons would perform far far better...
b:byeThe reason I dropped sage BIDS to go demon.
@Killanator
With enough channeling, the longer channel skills become merely another stone rain/pre demon pyrogramSins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze0 -
Try tt90+3 against r9, NV,& r8 +7 or more b:surrender it's an uphill battle to survive atm,DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »b:laugh I'm sure he does.
Yeah I'm r8 and on PvE servers only r9s, +10 r8s, and sins seem to ever pk so I'm usually fighting an uphill battle b:surrender
You're right about rushing fights. The problem with me is that I might underestimate somebody and just go for the quick kill, because a lot of the time I can do just that when I'm fighting people that have no idea what they're doing.
And rushing fights might be why my chi seems to go so quickly? With procs, the average chi gain of a demon wiz is probably fairly close to a sage's chi gain over so much time
When I think about it, it's true that when I fight a good player for a long time that chi isn't too big an issue. I guess the lesson here is to never underestimate opponents and kite everybody equally b:chuckle
Thats true for me too, the times I feel the opponent is **** is when I find I've wasted my chi killing him/her.
Words to live by. I feel like a bad wiz getting hit more than once. b:sad
couchhelpmefarmmy99goldnurfedcoughI
A lot of people0 -
Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »b:byeThe reason I dropped sage BIDS to go demon.
Well we don't fight without chi tho. :P"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."
- Jaya Ballard, Task Mage0 -
Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »Well we don't fight without chi tho. :P
*runs to mele range and uses mon zuls virtulent and dissolve*
you have half a spark at the start of the fight and no hope of ever getting enough to ulti outside of apos/geni.
go
(Most bm's with 91+ LP genis have 2 free spots for the skills and affinity already. Pretty much shuts down mage classes)Gifs are hard to make work here0 -
Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »*runs to mele range and uses mon zuls virtulent and dissolve*
you have half a spark at the start of the fight and no hope of ever getting enough to ulti outside of apos/geni.
go
(Most bm's with 91+ LP genis have 2 free spots for the skills and affinity already. Pretty much shuts down mage classes)
Who's this bm that knows literally nothing about wizzys? He goes around giving horrid advice even in the genie thread is he a troll like yulk orrr?Siggy from bellefleurs.
[SIGPIC]http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/25yzm05jpg.png/[/SIGPIC]
youtube.com/user/HardToYawn?blend=1&ob=video-mustangbase0 -
HardToThink - Lost City wrote: »Who's this bm that knows literally nothing about wizzys? He goes around giving horrid advice even in the genie thread is he a troll like yulk orrr?
Never level past 40 or your fail
axes are the best dps
sins are OP because they kite with knife throw
wizzies cant one shot people
/trollface
Points I've made on wiz forums
Living good.
Having more than one single target amp with redundant effects and a cooldown shorter than the effect is redundant
Accurate math on demon chi building on meles
wizzies dont always have 399 chi
/common sense and mathGifs are hard to make work here0 -
Interesting. How much chi do you take away from your opponent and yourself and is it really worth it to use up 45 energy every 30 seconds?
What two single target amps are redundant in your opinion? Can't think of two commonly used, hope you don't talk about spark and extreme poison."Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."
- Jaya Ballard, Task Mage0 -
Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »Interesting. How much chi do you take away from your opponent and yourself and is it really worth it to use up 45 energy every 30 seconds?
When I converted my 71 LP geni to test (90 str) I could burn 3 sparks off the opponent pretty quickly. Then its just mon zul spam to keep em suppressed. I normally had enough geni energy open afterwards for wind shield and mag def charms cover the rest while I regen energy, Tranq orbs can cover a fast apo on the mages part. My bm goes down about 1 spark.
What two single target amps are redundant in your opinion? Can't think of two commonly used, hope you don't talk about spark and extreme poison.
Frenzy EP. EP costs less and only works on 1 target, Frenzy costs more and amps aoes, about the only difference in the usage. and God no i love spark
Its not a commonly used tactic due to the need for a high skill spot geni. If a rich and well played bm/barb comes after you with it though its just mean. Archers can get around it once and APS meles just shrug it off though. No good in TW at all due to mele range and own chi burn but thats the reason for pve/pvp and tw geni specialization.
A more common event would be a long 1v1 with a rank 9 demon spaming taunt, chaotic and prolonged group pvp with you as a priority target or just rezzing in TW.Gifs are hard to make work here0 -
Hmm, I am not really convinced.. I mean you pretty much use up all your genie regenration for that skill (Assuming 2/sec on a high str genie is 120 per minute with 90 for skill spamming) and also sacrifice two sparks per minute. Assuming that wizzy kniows what he is doing, you won't be building chi on him either since he kites you most of the time... So how are you planning on killing him?"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."
- Jaya Ballard, Task Mage0 -
Burning your genie to steal a wizards sparks seems suicidal. I haven't ever fought a BM that uses that tactic, but I would think that them doing that would leave them open for a spark > BT combo if the wizard just popped a chi pot.0
-
DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »Burning your genie to steal a wizards sparks seems suicidal. I haven't ever fought a BM that uses that tactic, but I would think that them doing that would leave them open for a spark > BT combo if the wizard just popped a chi pot.
TE, mag def charms, tranq orbs, wind sheild need to have the bm at 50% for the bypass. I find myself spending the first part of any caster fight forcing spark use anyways Just speeds it up. (I no longer use the combo as my geni has **** LP and I need fortify vs sins)
@Arenaceous its only used as an opener. Mon zul alone can suppress sage wizzie chi gain in a long fight even counting pyro proc. Chi combo just kills opening sparks.
The bm should stil have energy for lawbreaker after your blink and at least 2.5 sparks after catching you (marrows) accelerated flyer replaces sprint bm can bash 2x roar 2x and aoleanblade+demon M rush. Claws build chi really quickly and a rank 9 bm will just laugh at you w/o sparks.. Also as I pointed out to killer there's many ways to counter magic DPH for damn near free so if the bm really needs it he can white tea.
Vs a barb with the combo? GL
Rare but effective.
Already gave other situations where chi loss is an issue.Gifs are hard to make work here0 -
As you've stated twice now, not many bms use that skill.
If it's so effective why don't they? Is that genie skill an affinity hog? Or does it just require a ton of LP to be effective?
Basically, what's the drawbacks of the skill? lol0 -
I wish I could fight you, would be interesting to find ways around it. I would probably just wait for the right moment and aim for a sutra/ulti kill with White Tea... Not saying it would work or break the tactic, but seems like a viable option since I don't usually need other apos against BMs."Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."
- Jaya Ballard, Task Mage0 -
DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »As you've stated twice now, not many bms use that skill.
If it's so effective why don't they? Is that genie skill an affinity hog? Or does it just require a ton of LP to be effective?
Basically, what's the drawbacks of the skill? lol
need a 91 LP geni to fit the combo on or sins gut you. Oh and the bm has to not be tarded. both of these cut out 99% of the game on their ownArenaceous - Lost City wrote: »I wish I could fight you, would be interesting to find ways around it. I would probably just wait for the right moment and aim for a sutra/ulti kill with White Tea... Not saying it would work or break the tactic, but seems like a viable option since I don't usually need other apos against BMs. Gifs are hard to make work here0 -
ITT: Real MG's beating their head against a brick wall, as Joshcja tries desperately to prove he has a slight idea of what he's talking about[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
-
ITT: Idiots beating their head against a brick wall, as Joshcja tries desperately to prove he has a slight idea of what he's talking about
You consider Nurfed a nubcake
The forums as a whole generally agree with him/her
So by your logic let me edit the above statement
IJS you cant talk out of both sides of your mouth at the same time.Gifs are hard to make work here0 -
Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »You consider Nurfed a nubcake
The forums as a whole generally agree with him/her
So by your logic let me edit the above statement
IJS you cant talk out of both sides of your mouth at the same time.
it doesn't take a genius to spew the same **** LLama, Haiz, and Adroit have said since Closed Beta.
it takes someone a cut above the rest to innovate like said people.
Nurfed_You dies to Nirvana Barbarians, and he's rank nine.
seriously, stop. think. Rank nine needs no skill, it's ALL math, the only way you can fail at being rank nine is if you haven't had enough experience with your class.
Therefore, Nurfed_You needs more experience and should spend some time thinking of possible situations in his head, and appropriate actions to take.
His PVP video= gear keeping him alive, if he was in NV gear, like the barbarian was, he would have got tooled.0
![http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/25yzm05jpg.png/[/SIGPIC]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/25yzm05jpg.png/[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 181.9K PWI
- 699 Official Announcements
- 2 Rules of Conduct
- 264 Cabbage Patch Notes
- 61K General Discussion
- 1.5K Quality Corner
- 11.1K Suggestion Box
- 77.4K Archosaur City
- 3.5K Cash Shop Huddle
- 14.3K Server Symposium
- 18.1K Dungeons & Tactics
- 2K The Crafting Nook
- 4.9K Guild Banter
- 6.6K The Trading Post
- 28K Class Discussion
- 1.9K Arigora Colosseum
- 78 TW & Cross Server Battles
- 337 Nation Wars
- 8.2K Off-Topic Discussion
- 3.7K The Fanatics Forum
- 207 Screenshots and Videos
- 22.8K Support Desk