Shards for Cata Barb

wtflolomgbbq

JoSD http://pwcalc.com/bd2ca0b4f13c6f2c or +10 vit http://pwcalc.com/ffdd4cc616e1b8e1 which is better ?

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

9 times out of 10 JoSD's are better. Consider that if 1 vit point add's 31 points (18 plus your hp buff and tiger form) and 10 vit adds 310 hp than a 2% reduction equal to 310hp would be 310/.02=15500 starting hp.

In other words, if you had 15500 and were allowed to take 2% more damage that would equal 310 more hp. Any hp above that means that 2% is greater than the 310 hp a vit stone gives and your build shows almost 2.5 times that hp (36348 hp x .02%=727 hp equivilant per JoSD). Obviously the higher your base hp the more effect a 2% shard will have where vitality is a pretty much finite addition.

That's taking defense out of the equation since vit stones add to defense. I buffed up both builds with bm and cleric buffs since you said "cata barb" and I'll assume you have a squad supporting you. The numbers I got were vit stone=35.7k, 89% reduction and JoSD=34k 89% reduction. Lets give vit shards a bit of an advantage and say its 89% vs 88% since those numbers are based on other 105 opponents, which not everyone is. This means that vit stones might help reduce physical damage an extra 9%. If you look at magic defense vit stones reduce attack 73% and JoSD's in a build only 70%. This means that Vit can help reduce magic attack 11% more.

Now, that's only half the story since JoSD's first go towards canceling opponents attack levels first. I'm trying to remember Asterelle's excellent example but basically each opponent will have a different number of attack levels so your JoSD's will react differently in pvp. Vit stones are more predictable.

Can also consider the benefits of which would be easier to heal, more a bigger vit pool or a smaller vitality pool but taking a fraction of the damage. Clerics can only heal so much incoming damage but if you reduce the rate of damage you take it will help their heals make a bigger impact.

Its hard to say which is better because it varies based on the situation but almost everytime JoSDs are better. I'd put this through Asterelle's calculator and see what you come up with.

Oh, and I'd suggest calcing it with O'Malleys if you're serious about being a catabarb.

prof

^are you an idiot?

first are foremost, defense levels do not = your hp. defense levels add an additional +1% defense, per level, over your opponents attack level. this mean, big shocker here, if your defense is low, your defense levels add nothing.

oh, and, most of the people who will be killing you.. yeah, they have 70+ atk levels anyway.

you want vit. barbarian's gain the most from hp as any other class(hp buff+tiger form), you highest damaging and most devastating skill is directly based on how much hp you have(armageddon), and jades cost 3x more than vit(no matter how much better vit is, weirdness).

Traz - Dreamweaver

prof wrote: »

^are you an idiot?

first are foremost, defense levels do not = your hp. defense levels add an additional +1% defense, per level, over your opponents attack level. this mean, big shocker here, if your defense is low, your defense levels add nothing.

oh, and, most of the people who will be killing you.. yeah, they have 70+ atk levels anyway.

you want vit. barbarian's gain the most from hp as any other class(hp buff+tiger form), you highest damaging and most devastating skill is directly based on how much hp you have(armageddon), and jades cost 3x more than vit(no matter how much better vit is, weirdness).

So far you're the only one that's proved themselves and idiot.


Pretty much what saku has said, although I personally would want 20k HP before I shard JoSD, but that's just a personal standard. b:cute

GohRaL - Sanctuary

prof wrote: »

^are you an idiot?

first are foremost, defense levels do not = your hp. defense levels add an additional +1% defense, per level, over your opponents attack level. this mean, big shocker here, if your defense is low, your defense levels add nothing.

oh, and, most of the people who will be killing you.. yeah, they have 70+ atk levels anyway.

you want vit. barbarian's gain the most from hp as any other class(hp buff+tiger form), you highest damaging and most devastating skill is directly based on how much hp you have(armageddon), and jades cost 3x more than vit(no matter how much better vit is, weirdness).

Man, pls dont put yourself under any more shame...


Just go in the stinky corner and be sure not to leave until u realized what u did

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

prof wrote: »

^are you an idiot?

first are foremost, defense levels do not = your hp. defense levels add an additional +1% defense, per level, over your opponents attack level. this mean, big shocker here, if your defense is low, your defense levels add nothing.

Not arguing defense levels = hp. I'm arguing hp=survivability vs. defense=survivability and comparing them. Remove every vit shard on the build and you notice the vit shards accounts for 7344 hp or about an additional 20% more hp. So the argument becomes which is better, reducing your opponents attack 48% from JoSD or gaining 20% more hp.


oh, and, most of the people who will be killing you.. yeah, they have 70+ atk levels anyway.
If they have 70 attack levels and you reduce is down to 22 that's cutting your opponents damage down 28%. Welcome to pwi, troll.

you want vit. barbarian's gain the most from hp as any other class(hp buff+tiger form), I pointed this outyou highest damaging and most devastating skill is directly based on how much hp you have(armageddon)Not alot of cata barbs volunteer to give up 50% of their hp, but it does happen to clear opponents. I just wouldn't base a cata build on 1 skill you rarily use, and jades cost 3x more than vit(no matter how much better vit is, weirdness).I don't see the original poster asking which is more expensive.

I didn't bother responding to your comments about vit vs JoSD in my thread because I didn't want to move it off topic with your fail trolls but since this thread is about JoSD I'll use it as an example. THe math is more straightforward since I stated multiple times my priority was pve.

Your vit stone build
http://pwcalc.com/b14a8c7798fff513

My JoSD build
http://pwcalc.com/48d2317f65557e66

Now, the best part about your build is it jumps my magic defense up from 52% to 60% damage reduction because of 200 exrta vit points multiplying it which is almost a 17% decrease in magic damage I'd take. So I can either take 48% damage and reduce it by 54 defense levels for a total of 22.08% damage or I can use your build and take 40% damage and reduce it by 16 attack levels for a total of 33.6% damage.

JoSD build=12989hp taking 22.08% damage
Vit build = 15575hp taking 33.6% damage.

Even though magic defense is where your build shines the JoSD are still more effective unless your build made the vitality more than 23.7k hp (which is falls way short of).

Same math with defense. Both builds gives an 82% reduction of phys damage. 18% dmg is reduced 54% more in JoSD build, but only 16% more in Vit build.

JoSD build=12989hp taking 8.28% damage
Vit build = 15575hp taking 10.4% damage.

the JoSD build would be as effective as a Vit build that had 18960 hp.


Your builds fall way short dude, but welcome to PWI and good try at fail troll.

laloner

prof wrote: »

^are you an idiot?

first are foremost, defense levels do not = your hp.

I think your getting confused by the way people refer to the damage reduction of a shard as effective health. I know the term effective health hasn't been used in this thread but that is the concept being used to determine the damage reduction.

RioNHale - Archosaur

JoSD has superior tanking capability to vit, if stacked highly, you will see an enormous drop in how much damage you take.

Sharding vit increases your hp significantly, this is good for arma bombing, and having a nice hp pool for tanking opponents without high attack levels.


If I was going for cata pulling only (not pve aps build) and had limitless funds, my chioce for a build would probably be something like this:

http://pwcalc.com/90b65f2cd4a71127

However I do prefer the crit/dex 2 50% acc rings, build. Its just a lot more fun.

http://pwcalc.com/2cb1867391d60218

XylolyX - Heavens Tear

For my cata/multipurpose barb I sharded for mdef (sapphire gems) and threw in a couple of vit stones. HP is achieved, IMO by refining gears. I'm not saying that is the way to go for all barbs, but it works well for me.

As far as effectiveness....depends. Some barbs have a ridiculous HP pool and vit stones to absorb damages and throw a few armageddons about- and they play their toons well. Some have an incredible HP pool + JoSD and also play their toons well.

Which is better? It really depends on the individual barb. Defense levels are nice, since they will counter a certain percentage of attack levels. But Vit stones are always nice since they always add more hp. Personally, since I always get attacked by magic users, I prefer to shard for mdef. My goal unbuffed is about 7K and I'm at 5.4K now.

I know a lot of posters here will disagree with me, but that's what makes the barb forum great.