Keeping aggro while tanking

laloner
laloner Posts: 0 Arc User
edited October 2011 in Seeker
I have a seeker alt that I would like to tank with and truthfully I get asked to tank in BHs often enough that its sort of a necessity. My main issue with this role is how to keep agro. On my main I've seen seeker tanks struggle with keeping aggro from players their level.

First off I'm wondering if a pure damage build might be better for tanking than the so called tanker build. I say that because I have very little Vit on my seeker and so far healers have no problem keeping me alive while tanking. While soloing I suck down pots but so far(lvl 59) I don't need the Vit to tank. This makes me wonder if a damage build is really best for tanking and if the extra damage would help in keeping agro. Because a tanker only needs to do 2 things, stay alive and keep agro. Well, canceling channel on aoe and stuff like that is a tanker job but I don't think seeker's have skills for that.

So I'd like some feedback on this and any advice on keeping aggro in general. I know about the alpha male genie skill and I know that a lot of seekers keep aggro by Vortexing. Anything else you can do?


I'd also like to know how much aggro the Battousai skill generates. Specifically about using it as an opener the way barbs use Flesh Ream. Seekers tend to start slow because they have to debuff first and most other players don't know about this or care and start shooting right away.

I plan on experimenting with this myself but wonder if anyone has tried opening with Battousai and then debuffing and then going into the main attack. Will the aggro from Battousai last through the debuffing? I mean the 2 main debuffs, reducing attack levels, and switching back to NSW and reducing defense levels. Getting ppl to wait through all that is hard, wonder what you can do to make it easier.
AKA PermaSpark, Heartshatter
Post edited by laloner on

Comments

  • HildieGarde - Heavens Tear
    HildieGarde - Heavens Tear Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    In my experience the only safe way to keep aggro at these levels is with Vortex. Yes you can keep is up continuously starting from level 60 with an MP charm and mana + gear. And it is a lot of fun. There is no reason to wait until lvl 75 unless you really cannot afford an MP charm and the equipment.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1192151

    Keep your Vit up. I have mine at 60 + 10 from equipment. I restated down to 35 Vit as an experiment and it was bad, I died a lot more and if you die as the Tank if often means a squad wipe.

    With Vortex I was hitting 5K+ (on BH51 bosses) with crits about 10K in my 60s, I was pulling aggro even from Barbs and Sins many levels higher than me. Now I'm hitting 6K+ with Crits over 12K (this is on Bosses) I don't usually bother with Vortex on normal mob.

    Having Alpha Male on a genie also helps to reset aggro and pull it to you. Use in in oh Sh*t moments when the healer grabs aggro.

    Battousai, well I have yet to see it make any difference in grabbing aggro.
  • Tomoe_ - Sanctuary
    Tomoe_ - Sanctuary Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    from lvls 2-current, i never put any stat points on vit, instead i took 2 points from it, and i never had problems with it. i am a pure str seeker with just enough dex to equip a sword with all gears equipped since day 1. . (so yah, when i take off one gear with dex on it, im weaponless :D)

    usually, nowadays, the only reason that you have to tank is that there is no aps toon in squad. . if you get asked to tank with an aps toon, tell them then to gimp their dps. . THEY have to adjust, not YOU. . vortex is an expensive way to hold aggro and it gets annoying when it stops at lower levels. . you can just try:

    soulsever> heartshatter > skill/auto attack > first proc > affinity > gemini slash then switch northern sky waltz > skill/auto > staggering strike> battousai > rock splitting cleave (you can just cycle through the last 3 skills mentioned)

    well at least this worked for me with 5aps toons. .
  • HildieGarde - Heavens Tear
    HildieGarde - Heavens Tear Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    from lvls 2-current, i never put any stat points on vit, instead i took 2 points from it, and i never had problems with it. i am a pure str seeker with just enough dex to equip a sword with all gears equipped since day 1. . (so yah, when i take off one gear with dex on it, im weaponless :D)

    usually, nowadays, the only reason that you have to tank is that there is no aps toon in squad. . if you get asked to tank with an aps toon, tell them then to gimp their dps. . THEY have to adjust, not YOU. . vortex is an expensive way to hold aggro and it gets annoying when it stops at lower levels. . you can just try:

    soulsever> heartshatter > skill/auto attack > first proc > affinity > gemini slash then switch northern sky waltz > skill/auto > staggering strike> battousai > rock splitting cleave (you can just cycle through the last 3 skills mentioned)

    well at least this worked for me with 5aps toons. .

    Well you obviously haven't been in BH51 and BH59 recently. Asking the Sins to control their output is rarely appreciated nor is it often listened to. Then you have the Wizzes and Psys that have such high spike damage.

    I don't think the OP is talking about lvl 100+ BHs here (where the dynamics are quite different) but 60s.

    Edit: You don't need Vit to tank regular mob. You need it to tank Bosses like Rankar and Wyvern and the BH59 bosses.
  • Tomoe_ - Sanctuary
    Tomoe_ - Sanctuary Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    well im not entirely talking about end game tanking either? all the skills i mentioned up there, are obtained at 59.. if you are in a squad that just goes all out (like you said, sins, psys, wiz that all have high spike damages), then tanking is out of the question, it'l just be a you-take-the-first-hit role. . if you are asked to tank, whatever level that would be,it must be a squad participation not take-all-the-damages-while-everyone-tries-to-outdamage-each-other. .

    i havent been in any lower level instances since the last 4 months so yah i dont know what changes happened in 51 and 59. . but in my experiences on those instances, i never had problems (be it rankars aoe and wyverns damage amp debuff. .) if u get sins in squad always ask for rib strike as first hit. .

    and yes you don't need vit to tank mobs being an ha class lol. . but you don't necesarrily need it to tank bosses. . im not saying vit build is a no way to go, if you can't play without putting points on it, then by all means go vit. . im just saying i did pretty well without putting any vit points and went full str. .
  • HildieGarde - Heavens Tear
    HildieGarde - Heavens Tear Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    i havent been in any lower level instances since the last 4 months so yah i dont know what changes happened in 51 and 59. . but in my experiences on those instances, i never had problems (be it rankars aoe and wyverns damage amp debuff. .) if u get sins in squad always ask for rib strike as first hit. .

    and yes you don't need vit to tank mobs being an ha class lol. . but you don't necesarrily need it to tank bosses. . im not saying vit build is a no way to go, if you can't play without putting points on it, then by all means go vit. . im just saying i did pretty well without putting any vit points and went full str. .

    Well you are right, if you have a good healer and/or the other members are Pro, you don't need high Vit for those bosses.

    However, so many BH 51-59 squads I have been in recently have fail members that I like the insurance. I die at least 80% less with 60 Vit than when I had restated down to 30Vit.

    So I guess it is up to play style. Personally I like being able to survive and prevent a squad wipe even when there are fail members.
  • Tomoe_ - Sanctuary
    Tomoe_ - Sanctuary Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    yeah. . well, we can only do so much. . there will always be those who will show off and end up dead and blame everything to the "tank" and cleric, but if they survive they'll brag about that for a while. . xD
  • Yuniryu - Raging Tide
    Yuniryu - Raging Tide Posts: 516 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Well you are right, if you have a good healer and/or the other members are Pro, you don't need high Vit for those bosses.

    However, so many BH 51-59 squads I have been in recently have fail members that I like the insurance. I die at least 80% less with 60 Vit than when I had restated down to 30Vit.

    So I guess it is up to play style. Personally I like being able to survive and prevent a squad wipe even when there are fail members.

    Then you my friend are indeed suited for vit seeker :). Personally i agree, some people are comfortable with high hp, for some are not. I am oddly enough in between but i am going to learn towards the full str end once i get enough hp with 5vit alone from refines and shards and gear. :). Obviously i cant do it now because i will have under 6.5k hp i will have more like 5.5k to 6k which might be too low for me right now.

    Well never bothered about hp, thats me, just dont want too low.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • laloner
    laloner Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Since Heartshatter only affects skills I wonder if skill spamming will help keep aggro. If the other physical attack toons are using normal attacks and the seeker skill spams after applying Heartshatter then this might allow the seeker to keep aggro.

    Since vortex gets aided by Heartshatter I wonder if this is part of the reason seekers rely on vortex so much to keep aggro.

    PWI likes to make all the skills fit together without explaining it all and making you figure it out. I wonder if the purpose of a debuff which only helps skills was to help the seeker keep pace with aps toons relying on normal attacks.
    AKA PermaSpark, Heartshatter
  • Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver
    Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver Posts: 441 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    bh51 and bh59.....god i squadded with a bunch of jackass in those. sin going wind shield+spark non stop.....wiz spamming there highest damage skill.....psy using black voodoo....could had more. And when they die, they are not to blame.... blame the tank for not keeping aggro and the healer for not healing them.

    sorry, needed to spend some past anger lol

    but seriously, vortex is our main aggro keeper. if you can't keep it up, try to save your spark, use it often and use battousai during the period you gain chi. If you can keep vortex up, you should be good to keep aggro from almost anything.
    Ebrithalia -Sage Seeker
  • SoulPlay - Heavens Tear
    SoulPlay - Heavens Tear Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    to keep agro seeker basic 101

    heartseeker reduces def

    debuff att and def lvls with gemini

    wind shield + enrage (frenzy) +20 att levels

    tell the stupid 5k hp 5.00 sins that have no def to chill up most wont but meh they die anyway leave them there
  • Neodaystar - Sanctuary
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    BASIC LOST KNOWLEDGE OF HOW TO BE A TANK WITHOUT AGGRO SKILLS:

    1) Let the tank do at least 15-20% damage on the boss's hp before anyone else starts doing damage.

    2) Ask the high aps chars to gimp damage.