y do lower aps sins out dmg higher aps bms archers etc.

escarte
escarte Posts: 33 Arc User
edited September 2011 in Assassin
how come sins so heavly out dps other classes even when put against higher dps say 3.33 sin vs a 5.0 bm or even a 2.86 sin vs a 5.0 bm i dont entirely get it <.< and im not even gonna compare how much they out dps non aps classes is it the crits or what O.o
Post edited by escarte on

Comments

  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    -Crit
    -Higher weapon damage on daggers than fists/claws
    -More DEX to modify their damage on daggers, than BM or Archer have STR. Endgame sin can easily get 450 DEX while BM are looking at around 300 STR, even less STR for Archers with claws.

    damage multiplier = 1 + ( Dex / 150 ) + weapon mastery (for BM it's STR/150)

    You are looking at 4.75 multiplier on Sin vs 3.75 of BM, and Sin's multiplier is applying to daggers of higher weapon damage than fists of same level. That with about 10% more base crit and Wolf Emblem buff leaves BM in the dust.

    In the end, Sin hits harder per hit and that makes up for it if they are hitting slower than a BM or Archer. APS as a number doesn't mean everything, but most people don't realize that.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    -Crit
    -Higher weapon damage on daggers than fists/claws
    -More DEX to modify their damage on daggers, than BM or Archer have STR. Endgame sin can easily get 450 DEX while BM are looking at around 300 STR, even less STR for Archers with claws.

    damage multiplier = 1 + ( Dex / 150 ) + weapon mastery (for BM it's STR/150)

    You are looking at 4.75 multiplier on Sin vs 3.75 of BM, and Sin's multiplier is applying to daggers of higher weapon damage than fists of same level. That with about 10% more base crit and Wolf Emblem buff leaves BM in the dust.

    In the end, Sin hits harder per hit and that makes up for it if they are hitting slower than a BM or Archer. APS as a number doesn't mean everything, but most people don't realize that

    The greatest reason is for Assassins dominating is daggers getting damage from dexterity. This allows an assassin to have a high base DPH with high crit, something an Archer can never really get, as they either have a similar crit and lower DPH due to low str and high dex, or low crit% and high DPH. And even then, daggers have a higher base damage to begin with. BMs and Barbs have the additional issue of being Heavy Armor and having a secondary weapon (axes) that requires high strength, meaning that they don't even get to choose between the two route.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Pyrostormz - Raging Tide
    Pyrostormz - Raging Tide Posts: 956 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    dagger devotion

    additional 75-90% damage besides the higher actual weapon damage
    ┌─┐
    ┴─┴
    ಠ_ರೃ
  • Kaitica - Heavens Tear
    Kaitica - Heavens Tear Posts: 270 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Pyrostormz - Raging Tide wrote: »
    dagger devotion

    additional 75-90% damage besides the higher actual weapon damage

    Which blademasters get fist and claw masteries 75% demon 90% sage?

    The reason is sins have more damage to deal because they have les damage to take.
    Dex multipliers, they don't require multiple weapons... Bow being an exception because it follows a sin build, etc.
  • laloner
    laloner Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    escarte wrote: »
    how come sins so heavly out dps other classes even when put against higher dps say 3.33 sin vs a 5.0 bm or even a 2.86 sin vs a 5.0 bm i dont entirely get it <.< and im not even gonna compare how much they out dps non aps classes is it the crits or what O.o

    I don't think a BM can get to 5 aps without wearing 90s lvl LA and that means having a lot of Dex and that doesn't directly increase fist damage.

    Ask yourself why blood moon bracers or w/e they are called sell for 40M while tt90gold bracers with the same -interval sell for 18M. Its because the blood moon's have Dex requirements low enough for a HA wearer to use. Its the only low Dex -interval wrist in the game so it sells for a lot.
    AKA PermaSpark, Heartshatter
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    laloner wrote: »
    I don't think a BM can get to 5 aps without wearing 90s lvl LA and that means having a lot of Dex and that doesn't directly increase fist damage.

    A BM can get 5 aps via many ways, the most common is probably:
    TT99 HA wrist (-0.1)
    TT99 HA Boots (-0.05 via bonus)
    Deicide (-0.1)
    TT99 LA Ornaments (-0.05 via bonus)
    Energetic Robe: Lunar Glade (-0.05)
    Lionheart Greaves (-0.05)
    Ask yourself why blood moon bracers or w/e they are called sell for 40M while tt90gold bracers with the same -interval sell for 18M. Its because the blood moon's have Dex requirements low enough for a HA wearer to use. Its the only low Dex -interval wrist in the game so it sells for a lot.

    Untrue. For one, Deicide, the most cost efficient claw in the game, requires 193 Dexterity, whereas TT99 LA Wrists, Ashura's Bracers, require 103 Dexterity. The requirements have absolutely nothing to do with it.

    And btw, Bracers of Blood Moon having a required dexterity of 64 would get you level 28 Claws or level 23 fists. No one uses those.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    laloner wrote: »
    I don't think a BM can get to 5 aps without wearing 90s lvl LA and that means having a lot of Dex and that doesn't directly increase fist damage.

    Ask yourself why blood moon bracers or w/e they are called sell for 40M while tt90gold bracers with the same -interval sell for 18M. Its because the blood moon's have Dex requirements low enough for a HA wearer to use. Its the only low Dex -interval wrist in the game so it sells for a lot.

    *face palm*
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Why do BMs way out survive Assassins with the same HP?
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    you don't even have to get into pure dex for crit/dmg multiplier stuff, simply put wolf emblem. b:cute
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Pyrostormz - Raging Tide
    Pyrostormz - Raging Tide Posts: 956 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    thumbs wrote: »
    Why do BMs way out survive Assassins with the same HP?

    they can wear heavy armor ?
    ┌─┐
    ┴─┴
    ಠ_ರೃ
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    thumbs wrote: »
    Why do BMs way out survive Assassins with the same HP?

    u troll or just stupid?
    ____________
    I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    George Carlin

    ~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear
    Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    u troll or just stupid?

    Check the veno forum , there is ur answer b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    <--- MALE Veno ..... Moved to G W 2 or maybe not completely , don't know ...... PW addiction
    {That TT xbow chain is one that describes someone's bowel movements after having too much spicy food. A loud **** (Thundercrack), then a burning sensation (Flash Fire), followed by an explosion of multi-colored poo-confetti (Blinding Radiance). Excellent...} By Quilue
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    thumbs wrote: »
    Why do BMs way out survive Assassins with the same HP?
    AoEing or PK, BM survives because of HA, AoE stun with short CD, and more AoE.
    1v1 or against bosses, sins far out-survive and DPS BMs.
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
    ~Spazz~
  • Hexalot - Dreamweaver
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »
    1v1 or against bosses, sins far out-survive and DPS BMs.

    Really ???

    LOLOLOLOLOL...

    Sins are the ones I see dropping like flies in Nirvana when caught in the flames of the "KFC" chicken... not BMs or Barbs. b:laugh
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    @ OP : are you serious b:laugh

    Damage goes further then just the number of hits per second.

    If you want to hurt someone, would you throw 500 marbles at him, or drop 1 brick on his head?
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Really ???

    LOLOLOLOLOL...

    Sins are the ones I see dropping like flies in Nirvana when caught in the flames of the "KFC" chicken... not BMs or Barbs. b:laugh

    Keep in mind 90% of the sins are played by idiots that believe being a fish makes you OP, doesn't make the class bad soloing... Not to mention most of them are now demon with dot build just made for nirvana.

    My sin is way way way better at surviving then my barb on 1 vs 1 bosses. This is a just as biaised comparaison as yours, since the quality of my sins gear is way better then my barbs.
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Really ???

    LOLOLOLOLOL...

    Sins are the ones I see dropping like flies in Nirvana when caught in the flames of the "KFC" chicken... not BMs or Barbs. b:laugh
    I've never died to those flames. They're pretty easy to just...oh I dunno, run away from?
    All the sins you've squadded with must have been stupid semi-afk-players who think they can herpaderp pwn because of 5aps.
    Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    My sin is way way way better at surviving then my barb on 1 vs 1 bosses. This is a just as biaised comparaison as yours, since the quality of my sins gear is way better then my barbs.
    I've squadded with Empu and seen him in action. He makes barbs blush in terms of survivability and DPS. 2.86 +12 R9 Sage sin ForTheMuthaFuhckingWIN b:victory
    Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    @ OP : are you serious b:laugh

    Damage goes further then just the number of hits per second.

    If you want to hurt someone, would you throw 500 marbles at him, or drop 1 brick on his head?
    Ooooh... That's a tough one.
    The brick would immediately give him a concussion at least, and most likely crack his skill. Not to mention inflict some bad brain damage.
    However the 500 marbles would bring about some hilarious results.
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
    ~Spazz~
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »
    2.86 +12 R9 Sage sin ForTheMuthaFuhckingWIN b:victory.

    That is highly misleading. Last I saw, he only used the ring, weapon and occasionally the belt and most of his non-weapon refines were +7-10.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    That is highly misleading. Last I saw, he only used the ring, weapon and occasionally the belt and most of his non-weapon refines were +7-10.

    that's the point, it's misleading to say "I only see *inser random class* die on *inser random boss*, and never the *inser another random class*. So the second has better survivability then the first.".

    Just like yesterday, some sin on a vana run asked : "is 4 aps r8 better then 5 aps?". Can't make 1 reply on that, since 5 aps can cover H&T just as well as G15 with GoF and -0.05 int (Leaving out 5 aps possibilities with fists etc etc). Yet, half the squad immediatly yells "5 aps is better".

    Got to know what you're compareing first. I can say "sin has way better survivability then barbs against bosses. I got a barb and a sin, so I can know.". Except that my barb has +5 max refines, and my sin +7 to +12...

Categories