My thoughts on ways to blanace end game
Warest - Raging Tide
Posts: 35 Arc User
Ok first of all i do realize that not every one will agree with me on this and for those of you who dont agree that is fine these are just a few ideas i have that i feel would help balance the game.
the first thing i feel would help the game is to lower the game breaking 5 APS i feel if this were lowered to 3.33 Aps it would allow barbs to hold aggro end game /any barb who says they cant hold aggro against 3.33 aps should consider re rolling because i am able to do it up to 3.33/
another change i feel they should make is archer and barbs going fist for aps i mean why make a class if you are just going to turn it into a watered down bm. now i dont feel that they should make all fists/claws bm but i feel that any fists or claws that are instance based meaning any Twilight temple, lunar glade, Frost covered, Nirvana or Old heavens tear should be bm only. but not just claws i feel they should do this with all weapons such as Bows, Swords, Axes, this way i player could customize their toon to match their style but if they wanted the full effect of a weapon they woul have to play the class that it is ment for.
soo these are my thoughts i have a few more but i would like to see what you all think about these ideas. i feel that it would make nirvana a more party friendly instance and maybe we would see people start playing the dead classes again /clerics and wizzies/ thank you for your time
the first thing i feel would help the game is to lower the game breaking 5 APS i feel if this were lowered to 3.33 Aps it would allow barbs to hold aggro end game /any barb who says they cant hold aggro against 3.33 aps should consider re rolling because i am able to do it up to 3.33/
another change i feel they should make is archer and barbs going fist for aps i mean why make a class if you are just going to turn it into a watered down bm. now i dont feel that they should make all fists/claws bm but i feel that any fists or claws that are instance based meaning any Twilight temple, lunar glade, Frost covered, Nirvana or Old heavens tear should be bm only. but not just claws i feel they should do this with all weapons such as Bows, Swords, Axes, this way i player could customize their toon to match their style but if they wanted the full effect of a weapon they woul have to play the class that it is ment for.
soo these are my thoughts i have a few more but i would like to see what you all think about these ideas. i feel that it would make nirvana a more party friendly instance and maybe we would see people start playing the dead classes again /clerics and wizzies/ thank you for your time
Post edited by Warest - Raging Tide on
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Warest - Raging Tide wrote: »Ok first of all i do realize that not every one will agree with me on this and for those of you who dont agree that is fine these are just a few ideas i have that i feel would help balance the game.
the first thing i feel would help the game is to lower the game breaking 5 APS i feel if this were lowered to 3.33 Aps it would allow barbs to hold aggro end game /any barb who says they cant hold aggro against 3.33 aps should consider re rolling because i am able to do it up to 3.33/
another change i feel they should make is archer and barbs going fist for aps i mean why make a class if you are just going to turn it into a watered down bm. now i dont feel that they should make all fists/claws bm but i feel that any fists or claws that are instance based meaning any Twilight temple, lunar glade, Frost covered, Nirvana or Old heavens tear should be bm only. but not just claws i feel they should do this with all weapons such as Bows, Swords, Axes, this way i player could customize their toon to match their style but if they wanted the full effect of a weapon they woul have to play the class that it is ment for.
soo these are my thoughts i have a few more but i would like to see what you all think about these ideas. i feel that it would make nirvana a more party friendly instance and maybe we would see people start playing the dead classes again /clerics and wizzies/ thank you for your time
Suggestion 1:
Wouldn't work and would honestly just boost the strength of assassins as the APS itself isn't a problem as much as the permaspark that results from it. A 2.86 permasparking assassin will out-DD most 5.0 claw users and considering that a barb can't hold aggro against... say... a 1.11 archer with a bow and a high refine, the APS is not relevant to how well the barb holds aggro.
Suggestion 2:
Then everyone would go APS sin and only use their other characters for PK. Had weapons been restricted from the start, fine... but as it is now, that would just cause mass complaints. Besides, in the context fists and claws are normally used for, Barbs do it better than BMs.0 -
Suggestion 1:
Wouldn't work and would honestly just boost the strength of assassins as the APS itself isn't a problem as much as the permaspark that results from it. A 2.86 permasparking assassin will out-DD most 5.0 claw users and considering that a barb can't hold aggro against... say... a 1.11 archer with a bow and a high refine, the APS is not relevant to how well the barb holds aggro.
Suggestion 2:
Then everyone would go APS sin and only use their other characters for PK. Had weapons been restricted from the start, fine... but as it is now, that would just cause mass complaints. Besides, in the context fists and claws are normally used for, Barbs do it better than BMs.
soo you believe that lowering max aps from 5 to 3.33 would not work b:puzzled well first off do sins already not out dd every other class o.o i am not saying lower aps because it makes sin too strong i am saying lower aps to balance the game of course sins out dd bm why cause sins have the highest dps of all the classes. and for you to say aps isnt relevant to a barb holding aggro i just dont agree with for the fact that anymore the game dosent breed real barbs only lazy one i have on my lvl 95 barb held aggro agains a 4aps sin using deicides refined to 10 i didnt hold it very well but i could hold it. any more the reason that bvarbs dont hold aggro is because thy have gotten lazy
and as for you second comment i am sorry but does not almost every one use a sin for pvp because it sure seems that way and if a barb is built the way it is ment to how and why would it do better with claws then a bm o.o barb are TANK when a barb is in True Form it cant use claws and if it isnt in true form then it isnt exactly a tank i feel that if you build i barb to use fistrs its a waste of time because you limit the ammount of skills it can use it none if i can remember correct so i ask you what is the point of said barb.
also i would like to say that dont expect any of these changes to be made just my thought about balance end game. i realize there would be too much QQing and rage quits if people could not reach 5 aps or the archers and barbs couldnt use claws0 -
To be honest i am rather suprised i was 1/2 expecting to see like massive ammounts of hate comments but it would seem only onw person had anything to say about my sugestions that does that mean every one else agrees o.o0
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Warest - Raging Tide wrote: »To be honest i am rather suprised i was 1/2 expecting to see like massive ammounts of hate comments but it would seem only onw person had anything to say about my sugestions that does that mean every one else agrees o.o
People don't see a need to comment on mediocre suggestions that have been made dozens of times before. Also suggestions here don't matter since this forum is ignored by the chinese devs. In 3 years of gameplay there is not a shred of evidence that a suggestion from this forum has been passed to the devs in China.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Warest - Raging Tide wrote: »the first thing i feel would help the game is to lower the game breaking 5 APS i feel if this were lowered to 3.33 Aps it would allow barbs to hold aggro end game /any barb who says they cant hold aggro against 3.33 aps should consider re rolling because i am able to do it up to 3.33/
No you don't. What you do is hold it against people with much, much worse gear. Anyone with just 3.33 aps right now probably has about a +5 refine on their weapon, assuming it's a weapon that can go to 4.0 or 5.0.
Get someone with +10-12 weapon and 5.0 aps to lower to 3.33 and see if you can still do it.
Also, R9 Sage sins have more DPS than 5.0 BMs/Barb/Archer and they're locked at 2.86 aps. So that already disproves you claim. But then again, most R9 sins have +10-12 refine.
What the APS change would do is make sins better in comparison than before, because at 3.33 they can permaspark really well, whereas other classes would be troubled.
And besides, if you made a change like this, you'd **** off a ton of people who bought TT99 stuff, as those are bound on equip and most people, if they chose to go with lower APS, would start by replacing their TT99 ornaments with Cube and Warsong or their TT99 armors with R9 or Nirvana.another change i feel they should make is archer and barbs going fist for aps i mean why make a class if you are just going to turn it into a watered down bm. now i dont feel that they should make all fists/claws bm but i feel that any fists or claws that are instance based meaning any Twilight temple, lunar glade, Frost covered, Nirvana or Old heavens tear should be bm only. but not just claws i feel they should do this with all weapons such as Bows, Swords, Axes, this way i player could customize their toon to match their style but if they wanted the full effect of a weapon they woul have to play the class that it is ment for.
What this would do is create a situation where barbs and archers would be losers at endgame. Barbs already got it bad with having to restat to claws to get into Nirvanas and Archers are already discriminated because of their natively lower DPS in comparison to other claw builds due to not having STR for HA.
So your suggestion would effectively transform the current APS frenzy, where people ask for 2.86+ aps, to asking for that APS AND being a BM or Sin.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »People don't see a need to comment on mediocre suggestions that have been made dozens of times before. Also suggestions here don't matter since this forum is ignored by the chinese devs. In 3 years of gameplay there is not a shred of evidence that a suggestion from this forum has been passed to the devs in China.
True i just figured people would voice their opnion on the matter to me it dosent matter if this were to ever reach the Devs this is just to see what people would think about if such an event were to ever happen0 -
Well another core problem beside the aps cap that is too high is that the whole game has started to favour DPS classes since DPH classes cant make up in terms of dmg.
So lowering the aps to 3.33 alone might not solve the problem but might help and be neceassary together with other changes. You are right when you identify the weapons themself as part of the problem and the suggestion to restrict weapons to classes can not entirely solve the problem. Here are some examples what I mean with DPS is favoured compared to DPH
psychics soulsphere has ~ the dmg of wizards magic sword but psychic has higher aps and on spam skills the % weapon dmg are the same. This is like giving a fist user fists with dmg of a polearm.
Even on a bm the total dph from a sword/pole path cannot match fists dmg when both weapons are refined because there is a breakeven point when dph ~ dps over a period of time and when i look at the time 5 polehits take and add up the number of hits from fists and sum the dmg DPS also always tends to win
Also classes with high crit rates like sins and archers are supposed to have weapons with low base dmg which is a bad joke when you look at the dmg of daggers this like the soulsphere dmg has to be reduced to equal out.
when it comes to barbs and archers it is ridiculous that they are worse of with the weapons intended to wear for their class than with melee DPS weapons taking away the chance to use their class skills.
On the other hand sins can use bows as well if need also chi skills for sins and bloodpaint needs to be weakened but with lower dmg and reduced aps the bloodpaint situation will improve steadily
the probabilities of certain effects have to be reduced for the new classes for instance stuns from seeker and sin have a 100% chance to hit while bms even with maxed skills still dont have that.
purify on elemental shell for wiz has to be increased to 98% from 10% as it is
......
The main reasons why devs wont change the current situation is
a) nerfing aps would **** off many people who have invested a lot in their toons +
it will make all runs slower at the same time
b) increasing the weapon dmg of DPH classes too much would lead to a 1 shot fest in PvP
greetz harm0wnie0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »No you don't. What you do is hold it against people with much, much worse gear. Anyone with just 3.33 aps right now probably has about a +5 refine on their weapon, assuming it's a weapon that can go to 4.0 or 5.0.
Get someone with +10-12 weapon and 5.0 aps to lower to 3.33 and see if you can still do it.
Also, R9 Sage sins have more DPS than 5.0 BMs/Barb/Archer and they're locked at 2.86 aps. So that already disproves you claim. But then again, most R9 sins have +10-12 refine.
What the APS change would do is make sins better in comparison than before, because at 3.33 they can permaspark really well, whereas other classes would be troubled.
And besides, if you made a change like this, you'd **** off a ton of people who bought TT99 stuff, as those are bound on equip and most people, if they chose to go with lower APS, would start by replacing their TT99 ornaments with Cube and Warsong or their TT99 armors with R9 or Nirvana.
What this would do is create a situation where barbs and archers would be losers at endgame. Barbs already got it bad with having to restat to claws to get into Nirvanas and Archers are already discriminated because of their natively lower DPS in comparison to other claw builds due to not having STR for HA.
So your suggestion would effectively transform the current APS frenzy, where people ask for 2.86+ aps, to asking for that APS AND being a BM or Sin.
as much as i wouldlove to argue your first argument i will put it simply like this i have a 95 barb i was able to hold aggro against a 4 aps sin usinr decides thatwere refined to +10 granted sins arent ment to use fists but 4 aps +10 deicides so that kinda dis proves your first point granted i did not hold aggro 100% of the time but 85-95% of the time i did and my gear is not amazing by any means.
i under stand that sin out dd other classes this was never an issue i would likt to make that very clear but i dont think that 5aps sins should be able to solo almost everything in the game such as Harpy Wraith as an example this game was ment for TEAM play not SOLO play.
as for barbs and archers using claws i would like to think it aps was lowered a barb could tank nirvana which is the main point of a barb unless i am mistaken and archers i would like to think if the aps was lowered their dph could start to keep up with 3.33 dps seeing as how archers are the highest phys DPH in the game.
and i dont know wat your server is like but on RagingTide the whole server is an aps race all nirvana's want 3.33+ for sins and 4+ for bms so your last comment to me has already happened b:bye0 -
HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »Well another core problem beside the aps cap that is too high is that the whole game has started to favour DPS classes since DPH classes cant make up in terms of dmg.
So lowering the aps to 3.33 alone might not solve the problem but might help and be neceassary together with other changes. You are right when you identify the weapons themself as part of the problem and the suggestion to restrict weapons to classes can not entirely solve the problem. Here are some examples what I mean with DPS is favoured compared to DPH
psychics soulsphere has ~ the dmg of wizards magic sword but psychic has higher aps and on spam skills the % weapon dmg are the same. This is like giving a fist user fists with dmg of a polearm.
Even on a bm the total dph from a sword/pole path cannot match fists dmg when both weapons are refined because there is a breakeven point when dph ~ dps over a period of time and when i look at the time 5 polehits take and add up the number of hits from fists and sum the dmg DPS also always tends to win
Also classes with high crit rates like sins and archers are supposed to have weapons with low base dmg which is a bad joke when you look at the dmg of daggers this like the soulsphere dmg has to be reduced to equal out.
when it comes to barbs and archers it is ridiculous that they are worse of with the weapons intended to wear for their class than with melee DPS weapons taking away the chance to use their class skills.
On the other hand sins can use bows as well if need also chi skills for sins and bloodpaint needs to be weakened but with lower dmg and reduced aps the bloodpaint situation will improve steadily
the probabilities of certain effects have to be reduced for the new classes for instance stuns from seeker and sin have a 100% chance to hit while bms even with maxed skills still dont have that.
purify on elemental shell for wiz has to be increased to 98% from 10% as it is
......
The main reasons why devs wont change the current situation is
a) nerfing aps would **** off many people who have invested a lot in their toons +
it will make all runs slower at the same time
b) increasing the weapon dmg of DPH classes too much would lead to a 1 shot fest in PvP
greetz harm0wnie
Thank you this is what i was hoping for i didnt say that theses 2 things alone would fix the unbalance indeed the game in un balanced in more aspects then on as you noted with psys and wizzies however i dont see this as so much a problem because of the qizzies being able to so much more DPH then psys.
now as you mentioned about pole/sword bms vs fist bm's.If max aps was lowered to 3.33 aps then you could reach nice dps if not higher with polearms for sure seeing as is you use the same -int gear as fist users do and use demon spark you can hit 2 aps with the r8 pole.0
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