Those 2h+ TTs you talk about so much...

Cytte - Harshlands

Will RARELY (if ever) happen.

Now I've seen this argument over and over again about how without 5aps Nirvana and TT will be really expensive and take ages to finish, and I'd like to put to rest this out of date and horribly out of touch rumor.

Those 2H+ TTs wont come back unless you get a squad full of people with average gear together and run it, because that's how it was back before the game went 5apsorgtfo. If aps ever gets a lower cap it wouldn't make much of a difference, the state of the game has changes in many more ways just the game flaw of aps. back when we had those 2h+ runs, the average weapon/armor and refine of everyone was TT90/99 +5 if you were good, now look at the average its R8/Nv + 7-10.

Now no those instances wont regularly be the 5-25 minute instances you're used to now, but the total duration may only go up to say 45-90 minutes now.

"OHHH but what about the lower lvl TTs, no lower lvl will have a +7-10 refines yet (lest they want to be ridiculed for using that much money on gear that lasts for 10 lvls)?"
Well chances are that they have a friend who has around a lvl 10x char, or has one themselves, or when they WC for some help, they may get a high lvl character. Problem solved.

"But if they don't get high lvl help from anywhere?"
Well they can do it themselves and take 2h+

(I don't have anything to say about Nirvana since I only play casters and rarely did the non caster Nirvana)

So PLEASE stop bringing that up like it's a valid argument. It's not, it never will be.

/rant

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

OP: Of course not. R8 is getting the -int boost to make players 5aps unsparked, and 5aps sparked. When this nerf happens to aps, spark macro's should still work.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Why don't see save the rage+anti-rage stuff for if/when this actually happens?

Ikarium - Dreamweaver

Cytte - Harshlands wrote: »

So PLEASE stop bringing that up like it's a valid argument. It's not, it never will be.

/rant

I will.......if the argument/theory/rumors/QQ about APS/perma-sparking being nerfed ever stops. There has not been any shred of any evidence they are in the progress of doing this, working on it, or hell, even considering or thinking about it. Yet, y'all bring it up like its fact that its going to happen imminently.
If anything, the fact they added a Caster-only Nirvana points more towards that they aren't.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

You complain about people saying it'll take 2 hours to run TT without being able to perma spark, you say it's a lame excuse, then you go and say that lower levels are gonna have +10 refines on their weapons? What kinda dumb shi--

Anyway... a level 90 isn't gonna have +10, even if they do know a 10x or 20 10x, just aint gonna happen. You know, unless they're insanely stupid but then you wouldn't want them in your squad anyway. Also, it's entirely possible to see 2 hour TT runs still, not everyone has +10 weapons and good gear. It's only the cash shoppers and hardcore farmers/merchants, there's still a rather large chunk of the community with gear that's sub-par for their level. TT3-3 is still out of reach for some level 100s, so don't whine about people complaining about TTs taking over 2 hours... it's ENTIRELY possible that with some groups it really will.

Perogies - Lost City

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »

OP: Of course not. R8 is getting the -int boost to make players 5aps unsparked, and 5aps sparked. When this nerf happens to aps, spark macro's should still work.

Oh does that mean bm rank 8 will actually be good now? Does that mean we'll have 5 aps unsparked full rank 9 sins? omg were doomed =/

Razorburn - Dreamweaver

Hey I got great news for all you QQ about aps...You are entirely free to go do all the TT you want without any aps characters at all...


Have lots of fun

Decus - Dreamweaver

Love how like three posters completely missed the point cause they didn't read. Not that I blame them, that's a big ol' wall of text.

b:surrender

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

Perogies - Lost City wrote: »

Oh does that mean bm rank 8 will actually be good now? Does that mean we'll have 5 aps unsparked full rank 9 sins? omg were doomed =/

As far as I know, yes. :P

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Love how like three posters completely missed the point cause they didn't read. Not that I blame them, that's a big ol' wall of text.

b:surrender

Or they are just unlitrate and didn't bother reading.

Oops, I didn't bother reading.

Oops, so does 99% of the forums. People read the title, the first paragraph (if it's divided up into paragraphs), then make assumptions on what the rest of the wall of text is about.

Then, they post something ****, look like idiots, derail the thread, and keep the Status Quo - A Stupid Forum.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Love how like three posters completely missed the point cause they didn't read. Not that I blame them, that's a big ol' wall of text.

b:surrender

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Or they are just unlitrate and didn't bother reading.

Oops, I didn't bother reading.

Oops, so does 99% of the forums. People read the title, the first paragraph (if it's divided up into paragraphs), then make assumptions on what the rest of the wall of text is about.

Then, they post something ****, look like idiots, derail the thread, and keep the Status Quo - A Stupid Forum.

On the contrary, I said both initially because of the original intention of the thread which was to debate the validity of Mag vs Pdef ornaments in the vein of Citrines vs Garnets since that is the subject of much debate in the cleric subforum. However, it isn't even a debate which one you should use. Any cleric that would only further boost their magical defense, sacrificing Pdefense is a moron. The only time one would consider such a thing is for the channeling, and even then only if you have enough Pdef already. In other words, there is no debate if you had to choose you should go with Pdef with the only caveat being explained to the OP the reason he'd even see M.Def ornaments being for the channeling.

Decus - Dreamweaver

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

On the contrary, I said both initially because of the original intention of the thread which was to debate the validity of Mag vs Pdef ornaments in the vein of Citrines vs Garnets since that is the subject of much debate in the cleric subforum. However, it isn't even a debate which one you should use. Any cleric that would only further boost their magical defense, sacrificing Pdefense is a moron. The only time one would consider such a thing is for the channeling, and even then only if you have enough Pdef already. In other words, there is no debate if you had to choose you should go with Pdef with the only caveat being explained to the OP the reason he'd even see M.Def ornaments being for the channeling.

Wrong thread?

_omegis_ - Sanctuary

Pre-99 TT sucks, you don't go in unless it's to do a quest seriously, no one farms that junk, no one with any sense of efficiency that is...Jeez.

OP, you think the 3-x TTs run 5-25min? You do not know what you're talking about. Just stop until you've stepped in there for once. Some people already do spend 2 hours or more in there, and they will do so all the more, regardless of perma-spark.

Oh speaking of which, how does the lack of perma-spark affect higher level TTs? Hmm i don't know, maybe a quick, periodic purify + immune was useful in dealing with the bosses? If you haven't been in 3-x TT, you reeeeeally shouldn't judge. I'd like to see how many squads would still be able to do Arma with a single cleric. It's not just about the difference in raw DD you know. TT run speeds will not be affected much as far as the best-geared squads go, they'd probably also have good genies to cover the chi gain.

For the crappy squads with +7 gears, wep and mediocre genies, it'll take a loooot longer, at least with the current TT bosses. lol...once again, no one will farm 3-x TT (well, no one with any sense of efficiency that is) except the very best-geared, as always. You can still probably pull it off for some culti or past map quest or some ****, but profit-wise I wouldn't go there.

For those who think "why but recast R8 will allow for 5.0 unsparked" - it's not about unsparked attack speeds...it's about being permanently sparked with the weapon damage add, as well as having the immune + purify every so periodically. Not saying I'm against the change or for it, nor addressing whether it's OP or not, but just saying. Those changes will make a lot greater impact than you're understanding.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wrong thread?

no, just proving me right... I guess... Or something. I didn't actually bother to read anything past the word 'contrary' as I don't know what it means. b:cool

Zanryu - Lothranis

O___O

StormHydra - Sanctuary

2 Hour TT runs are the most fun I've had in this game after Territory wars.

I don't see what's so bad about long instance runs. Especially one like TT which is actually legit fun.

_Ghoul_ - Lost City

i am going aps partly and this is fun lol the ppl who farmed and relly on aps are going nuts.
u shouldent solo period.
no solo mode.
i can see more cleric needed to purify on some bosses is goodb:victory.
i knew to many bm who never lift a axe in pvp hunt u with fist demon spark hunt u.
they fail spark again and retry.
my bro feel the same thing he seen sin spark 4 time in a rowb:shutup.
for this very reason i am glad b:bye we dont need them and i we happy seeing more axe pole stun bm using skill.

if aps is a glitch or not i do not care as long as it diesb:chuckle

Cytte - Harshlands

How many people actually read more then the title and first paragraph? I mean really some of you brought up points things that weren't even part of the thread (though I do think Venus was joking) b:question

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Love how like almost every posters completely missed the point cause they didn't read. Not that I blame them, that's a big ol' wall of text.

b:surrender

Fixed

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Or they are just unlitrate and didn't bother reading.

Oops, I didn't bother reading.

Oops, so does 99% of the forums. People read the title, the first paragraph (if it's divided up into paragraphs), then make assumptions on what the rest of the wall of text is about.

Then, they post something ****, look like idiots, derail the thread, and keep the Status Quo - A Stupid Forum.

QFT^

Woo Status Fxcking Quo

StormHydra - Sanctuary

And I think people are getting the wrong idea because I haven't actually seen anyone on the forums "talk so much" about 2 hour TTs.

And a good forum post (I mean a long forum post that you can't read in 10 seconds) should be roughly summarized in the introduction or conclusion.

and theres always "a forum post should be like a skirt".

I've also never seen anyone use the 'long instance' argument against the APS nerf.

Spliffany - Lost City

_omegis_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

OP, you think the 3-x TTs run 5-25min? You do not know what you're talking about. Just stop until you've stepped in there for once. Some people already do spend 2 hours or more in there, and they will do so all the more, regardless of perma-spark.

Oh speaking of which, how does the lack of perma-spark affect higher level TTs? Hmm i don't know, maybe a quick, periodic purify + immune was useful in dealing with the bosses? If you haven't been in 3-x TT, you reeeeeally shouldn't judge. I'd like to see how many squads would still be able to do Arma with a single cleric. It's not just about the difference in raw DD you know. TT run speeds will not be affected much as far as the best-geared squads go, they'd probably also have good genies to cover the chi gain.

For the crappy squads with +7 gears, wep and mediocre genies, it'll take a loooot longer, at least with the current TT bosses. lol...once again, no one will farm 3-x TT (well, no one with any sense of efficiency that is) except the very best-geared, as always. You can still probably pull it off for some culti or past map quest or some ****, but profit-wise I wouldn't go there.

For those who think "why but recast R8 will allow for 5.0 unsparked" - it's not about unsparked attack speeds...it's about being permanently sparked with the weapon damage add, as well as having the immune + purify every so periodically. Not saying I'm against the change or for it, nor addressing whether it's OP or not, but just saying. Those changes will make a lot greater impact than you're understanding.

we did 25 minute runs (full ones!!) in 3-3 before r9 with just hh99 and nv gear (all +10 weapons if i remember right, but that's it. gear was about +7 refines). ur party just needs to know how to play... (party setup: sin, bm, archer, barb, ep, veno). if the sin, bm and barb weren't 4.0 - 5.0 aps it would have raised the duration a bit ofc. but i doubt that a full 3-3 would last longer than 45 minutes if you know how to do it.

and where is this "recastable R8" coming from? as far as i know there will be 2 more R8 pieces (boots and wrists), so that R8 will be a complete set instead of just 2 pieces of armor. and noone knows if any of the pieces will have -int. R9 will be recastable though.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Cytte - Harshlands wrote: »

Will RARELY (if ever) happen.

Now I've seen this argument over and over again about how without 5aps Nirvana and TT will be really expensive and take ages to finish, and I'd like to put to rest this out of date and horribly out of touch rumor.

Those 2H+ TTs wont come back unless you get a squad full of people with average gear together and run it, because that's how it was back before the game went 5apsorgtfo. If aps ever gets a lower cap it wouldn't make much of a difference, the state of the game has changes in many more ways just the game flaw of aps. back when we had those 2h+ runs, the average weapon/armor and refine of everyone was TT90/99 +5 if you were good, now look at the average its R8/Nv + 7-10.

Now no those instances wont regularly be the 5-25 minute instances you're used to now, but the total duration may only go up to say 45-90 minutes now.

"OHHH but what about the lower lvl TTs, no lower lvl will have a +7-10 refines yet (lest they want to be ridiculed for using that much money on gear that lasts for 10 lvls)?"
Well chances are that they have a friend who has around a lvl 10x char, or has one themselves, or when they WC for some help, they may get a high lvl character. Problem solved.

"But if they don't get high lvl help from anywhere?"
Well they can do it themselves and take 2h+

(I don't have anything to say about Nirvana since I only play casters and rarely did the non caster Nirvana)

So PLEASE stop bringing that up like it's a valid argument. It's not, it never will be.

/rant

I like this post, and I'm not even quite sure why. XD

So if I read this right... are you trying to debunk a popular counter-argument against an APS cap drop? Because yeah, factually you'd be right. But I think you'd be forgetting the bigger issue, in that nobody needs (or deserves) 5-10 minute runs in the first place. Nirvana (IMO) was not designed for that, and TT definitely wasn't designed for that.

I'm not saying there's some premium on a run lasting two hours (though in the good old days, it made those drops all the sweeter :P). But if I can do a Nirv run with my faction in 30 mins with only 2/6 squad members having high-aps (which I have done... and neither of those people are speed-demons, either), I figure a non-aps squad ought to be able to do it in an hour or so. So if they lowered the cap and, say, increased the Rap/Canny drop rates, it'd level the playing field a lot.

StormChimera - Lost City

_Ghoul_ - Lost City wrote: »

i am going aps partly and this is fun lol the ppl who farmed and relly on aps are going nuts.
u shouldent solo period.
no solo mode.
i can see more cleric needed to purify on some bosses is goodb:victory.
i knew to many bm who never lift a axe in pvp hunt u with fist demon spark hunt u.
they fail spark again and retry.
my bro feel the same thing he seen sin spark 4 time in a rowb:shutup.
for this very reason i am glad b:bye we dont need them and i we happy seeing more axe pole stun bm using skill.

if aps is a glitch or not i do not care as long as it diesb:chuckle

Ghoul no one really cares if your going back on everything you always said about "true barbs" and going Aps so please stop posting this rubbish in every aps related threadb:bye

_omegis_ - Sanctuary

Spliffany - Lost City wrote: »

we did 25 minute runs (full ones!!) in 3-3 before r9 with just hh99 and nv gear (all +10 weapons if i remember right, but that's it. gear was about +7 refines). ur party just needs to know how to play... (party setup: sin, bm, archer, barb, ep, veno). if the sin, bm and barb weren't 4.0 - 5.0 aps it would have raised the duration a bit ofc. but i doubt that a full 3-3 would last longer than 45 minutes if you know how to do it.

and where is this "recastable R8" coming from? as far as i know there will be 2 more R8 pieces (boots and wrists), so that R8 will be a complete set instead of just 2 pieces of armor. and noone knows if any of the pieces will have -int. R9 will be recastable though.

45min full 3-3 with sin, 2 archers, and 1 clerics pre-R9...pretty good for no hf, amp, and only running with 4 people no?

Where is that link saying people will no longer gain chi with normal attacks during T spark? That's where people would get it from, I need to read it again and confirm >>.

NiightmareXz - Harshlands

Hi Cytte. Gz on 84.



b:avoid

chanchale

You dont know what you're talking about.
Long before the aps ruled pwi, TTs were really easy..like 5x more easy than they're now.
it is due to aps and the way it made TT 3-2 n TT 3-3 easy that they changed all the bosses in TT 3-x to hard mode. I dont remember steelation having 5 aps until about a year ago. Nor emperor being so effing hard.
It is due to aps that they changed the TT bosses to hard mode

Now that chi is finally getting nerfed, since u wont get any chi with normal attacks anymore, TT 3-2 n TT 3-3 r gonna be effing hard and almost impossible to do it. Good luck with that brah

Miugre - Heavens Tear

chanchale wrote: »

You dont know what you're talking about.
Long before the aps ruled pwi, TTs were really easy..like 5x more easy than they're now.
it is due to aps and the way it made TT 3-2 n TT 3-3 easy that they changed all the bosses in TT 3-x to hard mode. I dont remember steelation having 5 aps until about a year ago. Nor emperor being so effing hard.
It is due to aps that they changed the TT bosses to hard mode

Now that chi is finally getting nerfed, since u wont get any chi with normal attacks anymore, TT 3-2 n TT 3-3 r gonna be effing hard and almost impossible to do it. Good luck with that brah

Chi nerf or no, the only thing the TT3 buff accomplished was making the instance 99% impossible for anyone but 5aps people to do. It was a glaring blunder at best (if they really meant that talk about making it more fair for everyone) or blatant lies at worst (if they didn't mean it).

Either way, TT3 is, and has been, dead to me until/unless it's fixed.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

i miss the 4 hour TT days :P

brazenbusboy

So we are being told that we (PWI) are 6 months to a year behind China (PWC). We are told that 5 aps does not exist in China and its coming here next.

My question is this, did China ever have 5 aps? If not then how did the PWI get it and not PWC?

If China did have 5 aps previously, what was the reason given for it going away?