Are Hooks really that great?

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Comments

  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I know someone who solo farmed H&T's, spent ~400k making them, then would sell them for 6-7 mil. And people would buy them. Is it really worth spending that much on something that you aren't gonna use very long? You can get the FCC Daggers for the same coin, and they actually have a proc on them that's useful. I've never had a set, so I can't comment on DPS vs Hooks... But...

    I think most players base their choice on adds + their budget. Here many calculate dps and all, but ingame I don't think many actually know theirs. You seem to have picket SotS for it's pierce proc more then anything else. I used fcc daggers, mainly for the faith add. What's so wrong with using H&T for the -int add? If they consider poking single targets is their main activity during 80 to 100, they actually make a good choice damage/budget wise.
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I saw a 101 sin with Hooks and everything else to get to 5.0, and he demon sparked, then I sage spark, and at 1.67 APS, I stole aggro and out DD him on several bosses. It's... Sort of sad. b:surrender

    This is the result of the aps-mania. When "sin 5 aps" will get you a squad easier then "sin 4 aps", you get ppl to do those things. Besides, during the past years I've seen pretty much anything, from axeclerics to wandbms.
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Feel free to +12 your Hooks, but they still aren't endgame daggers.

    Who in this thread ever qualified them as "endgame"?

    I think another big argument in favor of H&T is the "everyone uses them"/"everyone sais that". If you do something different from the standard set in game, you will have to proove and explain yourself all the time, which is probably what lead you to make this thread. If you want to be/try something different, you have to make sure you're damn good so you get accepted in this game. However, it can be worth it. Just look at fist bms 2+ years ago and now, sage sins at start of expension and now, arcane wizzard build for tw then and now, etc etc
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    As for readily farmable, that'd debatable. I had to merchant for the mats for the set I used to decomp for Backbiter because even during 2X, there weren't enough mats to go around (faction runs, nobody ran away with mats).

    I only do solomode TTs and I've ran into enough Hooks to make a few dozen Hook and Thorns.

    And btw, currently the following Hook and Thorns are in AH:
    2x Immaculate Garnet, +5 @ 12,000,000
    Unsharded 1 socket @ 5,200,000
    1x Immaculate Garnet, 1x Flawless Garnet, +3 @ 7,000,000
    I saw a 101 sin with Hooks and everything else to get to 5.0, and he demon sparked, then I sage spark, and at 1.67 APS, I stole aggro and out DD him on several bosses. It's... Sort of sad. b:surrender

    It is. Personally, I leveled to 100, sold my Hook and Thorns, merchanted until I had enough to buy Rank 8 and moved to the dagger. Not a single mob killed on 100 with Hook and Thorn.
    Feel free to +12 your Hooks, but they still aren't endgame daggers.

    Well obviously not. No one claimed that. Though, the same is true of all other TT80s. The same is also true of TT90s and TT99s, all of them. Because Rank 8 dagger is better than every single one of them by a ridiculous factor and it's also cheaper, assuming that you'll be getting Rank 8 anyway.

    Sadly, I have seen a few +10 Hook and Thorns. The worst I saw was a +10 with 2 Incomparable Garnets. And the user? Said that his weapon is far superior to Rank 8 and laughed at how much of a noob I apparently am.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Mauntille - Heavens Tear
    Mauntille - Heavens Tear Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    As for readily farmable, that'd debatable. I had to merchant for the mats for the set I used to decomp for Backbiter because even during 2X, there weren't enough mats to go around (faction runs, nobody ran away with mats).

    There's people in my faction who won't get H&T because it's so expensive, and even though we will farm the mats for them, they don't want to bother. They will see a legendary 74 dagger with a HP recovery proc for 800k in AH, and stick with that to 90 or get an FCC Dagger for less than H&T.

    I know someone who solo farmed H&T's, spent ~400k making them, then would sell them for 6-7 mil. And people would buy them. Is it really worth spending that much on something that you aren't gonna use very long? You can get the FCC Daggers for the same coin, and they actually have a proc on them that's useful. I've never had a set, so I can't comment on DPS vs Hooks... But...

    You can completely farm them in solo mode. My sin did with a little help from a level 85 friend. Call me crazy, but my characters are required to farm their own gear (barring instances they can't enter, such as Nirvana). 6mil is indeed overpriced, but you yourself say they can be acquired for about 400k. At around level 80, if 400k is too expensive, you have bigger problems than picking out your next gear set and should work those out before leveling.
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I saw a 101 sin with Hooks and everything else to get to 5.0, and he demon sparked, then I sage spark, and at 1.67 APS, I stole aggro and out DD him on several bosses. It's... Sort of sad. b:surrender

    Feel free to +12 your Hooks, but they still aren't endgame daggers.

    So, skipping an upgrade at 90 to upgrade at 100 makes the daggers endgame? I like your logic there. No one is saying to +12 the Hooks. (If you don't realise that Evict is trolling you, you should stop posting in general.) We've only been making comparisons about the H&Ts against TT90 daggers.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    It's official, Sarrafeline is hopeless. She's now throwing out random things after it's shown that the TT90 dags that you spend more time and effort to get actually do worse than H&T. When you are wrong, you are wrong, get over it.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    This argument has been a longer duration then any sin would have either dagger, idc. Get r8 or nirvana and move on when you ding 100 in 2 days. kthnxbai b:cute
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • fairymaster1
    fairymaster1 Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    I went the h & t path, then at 95, choose lunars, i got them cheap. got my tt99's and farmed coin for gold during the rep sale and then leveled to 100 and got my r8 gear. It was well worth the wait. Now i am working on tome and niv leggs but skipping the daggers until after i achieve r9 ring and daggers maybe. it is amazing what you can do once you hit r8 and i am sure r9 will be well worth the wait as well. I got a taste yesterday of how well and what you can do with learning you class. Right now I am at 2.86 sparked and loving it.

    I knew i could tank this guy, but I was amazed at solo'n this boss he is not easy and hits crazy hard. As you see the barb died and cleric as well. I think the bm barely lived and the other sin might have died as well, cant remember. tbh i dont remember a 80's barb ever living through this boss without a really good cleric. cleric got wiped at first aoe, as you noticed i tele'd to pull the boss but i dropped down at wrong spot so he got kinda stuck at the box, that goodness didnt loose any green mats, but some fairyboxes got caught in the box hehe.

    Overall people should choose what they think best fits their budget/abilities and what they like. I could have used hooks up to r8 but the lunars gave me a bit more survival and more dmg.

    SUgbH.jpg
  • Jianqiao - Dreamweaver
    Jianqiao - Dreamweaver Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Sadly, I have seen a few +10 Hook and Thorns. The worst I saw was a +10 with 2 Incomparable Garnets. And the user? Said that his weapon is far superior to Rank 8 and laughed at how much of a noob I apparently am.

    This makes me indescribably sad.
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Mauntille - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You can completely farm them in solo mode. My sin did with a little help from a level 85 friend. Call me crazy, but my characters are required to farm their own gear (barring instances they can't enter, such as Nirvana). 6mil is indeed overpriced, but you yourself say they can be acquired for about 400k. At around level 80, if 400k is too expensive, you have bigger problems than picking out your next gear set and should work those out before leveling.



    So, skipping an upgrade at 90 to upgrade at 100 makes the daggers endgame? I like your logic there. No one is saying to +12 the Hooks. (If you don't realise that Evict is trolling you, you should stop posting in general.) We've only been making comparisons about the H&Ts against TT90 daggers.

    Farm in solo mode? I attempted that and was getting fairy boxes, perfect stones, and Sides. Total waste of subs. b:surrender I think it would cost me more to farm them in Solo Mode than 6 mil just for the subs costs... But once I got them, I'd have eleventy billion Mirages to +12 them without having to use dragon orbs at least.

    Evict is just a nub. But I have seen people with +10 hooks running around. I'm not going to waste the resources to go past +3 on anything unless it's never going to be replaced or upgraded (my GV's for my archer, for example). I have +7 SotS, but other than putting perfect garnets into them, I haven't spent a coin on them. They were actually given to me. So I'll use them. (I was given a Sound Chaser last night too, I'm a magnet for gear I guess?)

    Meh... It's got -int on it so it must be great I guess. >_>
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Mauntille - Heavens Tear
    Mauntille - Heavens Tear Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Farm in solo mode? I attempted that and was getting fairy boxes, perfect stones, and Sides. Total waste of subs. b:surrender I think it would cost me more to farm them in Solo Mode than 6 mil just for the subs costs... But once I got them, I'd have eleventy billion Mirages to +12 them without having to use dragon orbs at least.

    Evict is just a nub. But I have seen people with +10 hooks running around. I'm not going to waste the resources to go past +3 on anything unless it's never going to be replaced or upgraded (my GV's for my archer, for example). I have +7 SotS, but other than putting perfect garnets into them, I haven't spent a coin on them. They were actually given to me. So I'll use them. (I was given a Sound Chaser last night too, I'm a magnet for gear I guess?)

    Meh... It's got -int on it so it must be great I guess. >_>

    So let me get this straight:
    -You don't have the patience to farm.
    -You refuse to go to +4 on something that isn't endgame, yet you run around with a +7 SotS.
    -You tout cost comparisons against daggers that you haven't paid for or farmed yourself.

    Did you even consider the cost of these +7 SotS daggers and that maybe they were given to you because people don't see a good reason to pay that much coin when you don't have a proportional increase in performance?

    Sorry, but your contradictions are lack of seeing the bigger picture is getting harder and harder to follow...
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I know someone who solo farmed H&T's, spent ~400k making them
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I think it would cost me more to farm them in Solo Mode than 6 mil just for the subs costs...
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Mauntille - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    So let me get this straight:
    -You don't have the patience to farm. [cost=red]Wrong. I simply refuse to spend 6 mil on subs farming somthing.[/color]
    -You refuse to go to +4 on something that isn't endgame, yet you run around with a +7 SotS. They were free, or can you not read? Besides, +3 SotS out DD's +3 H&T, so what's the point? I have both of those as well.
    -You tout cost comparisons against daggers that you haven't paid for or farmed yourself. Wrong. I BOUGHT a set of H&T, 2 socket, +3, almost a year ago. I also bought a set of SotS for 3.5 mil that was 2 sockets +3. I also farmed a set of SotS with my faction, which I still have. This dagger came out 1 socket, so I'm going to use it as a souledge to make TT99 daggers.

    Did you even consider the cost of these +7 SotS daggers and that maybe they were given to you because people don't see a good reason to pay that much coin when you don't have a proportional increase in performance? Huh? They were given to me because a faction mate quit the game, and wanted them to have a good home. He still comes back for TW every weekend, and the agreement is that I give him the SotS for TW, and I have them for the rest of the time, for anything else I end up doing.

    Sorry, but your contradictions are lack of seeing the bigger picture is getting harder and harder to follow...

    Your assumptions and misconceptions are insulting. I've farmed a ****ing TON of gear. My BM has TT70 pole, sword, axe, and fists, I have TT80 fists already, I've got TT60, TT70, AND TT80 arcane weapons, I have TT80 and TT90 slingshots, bows, and crossbows (Unicorn, Striker, Dragonbow, etc), AND I have TT70 Arcane, Light, and Heavy sets of armor. I've farmed or purchased all of this myself. The mats have been reasonable, either to farm or to buy, and the gear itself has been reasonable, either to buy, or to shard and refine.

    However, for the price of a one socket, unsharded, unrefined H&T, I could buy a complete set of TT70 Arcane armor, 3 socket, with Flawless Cits, +3. Hell, I bought a 4 socket +4 TT90 LA wrist guard AND TT90 LA 4 socket +3 boot for less than that. Wrists had Immac Cits, boots have Immac Garnets in them.

    If I hadn't come across my current Hooks for the reasonable price I got them for a year ago, and they weren't required for Backbiter, I never would have bothered with them in the first place.

    I probably would have gone with a set of FCC daggers, I can get a 1 socket +5 set for around the price of a 1 socket +3 set of Hooks. Instead I went with SotS.

    Maybe I'll sell my H&T and get an FCC Dagger. Who knows. The -int on the dagger itself really doesn't help that much being sage, and when I use relentless Courage, I'm only getting to 2.22 with Hooks vs 2.22 with any other dagger out there, might as well go for maximum damage.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Mauntille - Heavens Tear
    Mauntille - Heavens Tear Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    It wasn't meant to be insulting. I flat out said it's getting harder to follow you. I just wanted to get the facts straight.
    Wrong. I simply refuse to spend 6 mil on subs farming somthing.

    6 mil in subs, with subs at 38k, is approximately 158 subs. It shouldn't take you anywhere near that to farm H&Ts.

    They were free, or can you not read? Besides, +3 SotS out DD's +3 H&T, so what's the point? I have both of those as well.

    I never said that you +'d them yourself. I'm just pointing out that you telling people to not go beyond +3 yet bragging about the performance of your +7s will make people wonder. If you look back at the thread, you'll see that I also never said that SotS's weren't better. Instead I pointed out that for most people it isn't worth the cost.

    99% of sins already have H&Ts at level 90 because they use them in their 80s. Most people believe that the increased performance should be proportional to the cost. Pay 0 coin to stay the same, or pay millions to do marginally better?

    Wrong. I BOUGHT a set of H&T, 2 socket, +3, almost a year ago. I also bought a set of SotS for 3.5 mil that was 2 sockets +3. I also farmed a set of SotS with my faction, which I still have. This dagger came out 1 socket, so I'm going to use it as a souledge to make TT99 daggers.

    Thanks for clarifying that. It wasn't obvious because you had said:
    Farm in solo mode? I attempted that and was getting fairy boxes, perfect stones, and Sides. Total waste of subs. I think it would cost me more to farm them in Solo Mode than 6 mil just for the subs costs...

    and
    I have +7 SotS, but other than putting perfect garnets into them, I haven't spent a coin on them. They were actually given to me.


    Huh? They were given to me because a faction mate quit the game, and wanted them to have a good home. He still comes back for TW every weekend, and the agreement is that I give him the SotS for TW, and I have them for the rest of the time, for anything else I end up doing.

    It was a hypothetical to get more information out of you. This is actually a decent reason. However, I've known people to make and use a piece of gear that isn't commonly used. The couldn't sell said gear because no one wanted it, and ended up giving it away.
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Nope.

    For further clarification, if I hadn't gotten the +7 SotS, I'd have kept my +3 SotS, and used them as they were. Half the cost of H&T, better performance. But I never turn down free gear, and often either end up using it for... like forever, or passing it on to faction.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • lobinhoot32
    lobinhoot32 Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    The general idea of hooks price is really off in this thread. Unsharded one socket does not cost 5mil, more like 3.5 to 4mil. People set it at that price does not mean you have to buy.

    General price of hooks unsharded one socket on AH my server 5mil to 6mil. I refused to pay that ridiculous price, so i adv and within two hrs i got these offers

    unsharded one socket hooks no refines 3mil
    two sockets flawless +3 5.5 mil
    two sockets immacs +4 6.5mil

    then i also got this joker offering me 8mil for +3 2 immacs two and calling me noob cuz i told him it was overpriced.

    They are actually quite affordable if you know what you are paying for and spend some time to shop.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    You are wrong, get over it. b:bye

    We don't need to hear your "I got blah blah blah for blah blah blah blah while making H&T will cost blah blah blah". H&T is just as good if not better than other TT dags pre 99, and are cheaper to make than starting a new TT path for most people.

    You are wrong, get over it. b:bye
  • ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver
    ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver Posts: 458 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Sarra you're wrong stubborn and more important, you're looking dumber and dumber with each post.

    I'll wrap this up like I usually do. at 80 get h&t. at 90 you have 2 choices. Stick with h&t or spend a couple mil to get backbiter or sots and get out dd'd by h&t of equivalent refine. your choice.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Yulk? Is that you *taps on computer monitor of Sarra's post*



    Her posts need a warning label so she doesn't trick unsuspecting new players into messing up their characters or spending coin on gear that hurts more than it helps. Copy paste this into your signature please.

    I R troll and will Yulk you with my constant bad advice. Everything I say is purely for comedic effect so the entire forum community can laugh at me. Do not follow my troll advice or you'll regret it. Troll trol trol, troll trolling troll troll. Troll.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    >_>

    Fine. I'm gonna leave the sin forum. Have it your way. Have fun asspatting yourselves over your -0.05 int that really is useless before 99.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Malkomod - Harshlands
    Malkomod - Harshlands Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    >_>

    Fine. I'm gonna leave the sin forum. Have it your way. Have fun asspatting yourselves over your -0.05 int that really is useless before 99.

    -Warning!! incoming sarcasm-

    Yeah, I dunno why I farmed my H&T.... The price is so high.... I could afford Nirvana-Barrier thorn + 12 with that money.

    -back to normal-

    What is funny about that thread is that all your arguments are wrongs. And I just calculated the whole DPS of your **** you want us to put instead of H&T. And yes it is possible to farm it.... I DID!!!!!! I had it when I turned 80.

    You say: h&t are pricy, but its less than 3 mils if you buy all the mats from catshop at high price. (i just calculated it) And theres some people in Harshland selling h&t for like 5 mils +4-5. It is really affordable. The plan is to use it till Other high level daggers they are not endgame.

    Anyway h&t resell faster because more people use this path.

    Finally, I don't see any reason writing other arguments to you because you wont admit your wrong. (at least admit you wont admit it lol!) And, you act a little kiddish because your arguments about damage,price,time are totally wrong. And, your arguments are full of contradictions. I just think you imagine arguments and try to fool us. Seriously, I don't try to frustrate you, It is just the way I feel about it.
    b:bye
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    >_>

    Fine. I'm gonna leave the sin forum. Have it your way. Have fun asspatting yourselves over your -0.05 int that really is useless before 99.

    Yes, the math CLEARLY shows that any interval are completely useless pre 99. What a bunch of noobs getting R4/6 tops and Bracers of Blood Moon.

    Have fun debuffing over your Barb/Veno/Cleric's debuff with your dags and slow everyone down.

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