A question geared towards the Demons

Cytte - Harshlands

So I'm (slowly) creeping up on 89 and I'm still on the edge about sage & demon So I have a few play style questions to the Demon Wizzies on the forum.

Chi management, now I know sage gets that hands down, but How do ya'll feel about your chi management? (Not including Teas)

Dps v Dph, well really I'm just asking if you try and charm bypass or try to kill someone before their charm ticks?

Thanks in advance.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

well the chi management is not much of an issue if you have cloud eruption

but to the perfect dex-genie-build for a wizard doesnt allow cloud eruption
its pretty annoying to have no chi


currently im in the process of testing several genies
but the combinations including cloud eruption and other awesome skills often end up with requisite lvl105 in calculator

a dex-genie CE hybrid seems to be a bit gimped.. (my demon suggestion to go sage here)

pk is not very active here atm since the only bigshot pking enemy faction is falling apart :C so i need to abuse faction mates for genie pk testing < (most other people in pk are stealth-1shot-stealth sins)



dph difference between demon and sage isnt that big

sage would use more Bids and hope for proc


both are able to dph(crit on an ult) and dps (genie-spark sutra pwn) kill pretty much equally
while sage-bids has a higher chance to crit and demon can lock the opponent easier to start macro (ya they always run away when u seal them if they ever got killed by spark-fire-sutra)

Sun_Burn - Lost City

dps / dph isnt a concern regardless of culti. We are a damage per hit class.

But, with that being said, here's a thought.

Apparently demons attack faster with and without sparking because of their reduced channeling skills.. But when you are in pvp and you want to kill someone before their charm ticks again most of the time you are gonna want to sutra depending on the situation. Since sutra costs 2 spark guess which culti isn't gonna have problems casting sutra when they need to, sage. (most of the time)

So sage in theory can be better at dps when it needs to be after ticking someone to finish the fight, or at least more reliable.

Cytte - Harshlands

b:thanks Thanks, though deciding is still hard b:surrender. though im leaning towards demon a bit for the control skills, but I do wish demon had the +5% from elemental Masteries instead of +crit

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

tbh I don't feel cloud eruption justifies not having the sage chi skill. Every time I have to use eruption, I feel bad because I know it could have been used for a different genie skill, and it sucks because it ties up your affinities and takes a skill spot.

Also, cloud eruption on a sage wizard is just ridiculous.

And somebody already answered your dps vs dph question. We're a dph class. Our only faster channeling skill is pyrogram, but pyrogram being .8sec faster is pretty much a nonfactor imo.
Unless you meant when triple sparking? In which case demon wins in dps hands down, but if your opponent is letting you triple spark them in pvp, then sage will do fine too. So it'd only really make your dps faster in PvE, which I would think you don't care about considering your server.
Also there is our mini sutra. Use one spark and channelling becomes idon'trememberhowmuch faster, which is usuable in PvP and therefore would make your pvp dps much higher than a sage wizzy.

Nurfed_You - Harshlands

there are no active pvping wizzies on harshlands that use demon wellspring. not that i've ever seen XD, and if they ahve been using hten it hasnt been noticeable.

negativereaction

sage advantage extends to more than just "hoping bids procs."

i can't stress enough how dry you will run on chi in any sort of prolonged fight, especially group vs group and especially against players who aren't just 1-hits. forget Master Li's and Pyro, even the half-cost on bt and ms is huge. and yes, reliance on cloud eruption (or teas) will severely limit what you can do with your genie DEX-wise (or with other apothecaries).

it is easy enough to find the many, many upsides of going sage elsewhere on the forums, so i'm not going to reconstruct them all in yet another thread, but i want to make sure sage isn't dismissed as just being "lol bids proc." that's only a small fraction of the reasons you shouldn't go demon.

Nurfed_You - Harshlands

dont be hatin on the demon wizzies out there. Demon is a very good cultivation pick simply due to the control skill differences. I'm sage and hailstorm is a badass bm/barb stopper. i cant imagine how much better it would be if i were demon

Tsuyoginos - Heavens Tear

I'm probably gonna start a flame war here, but the lack of chi for me is nothing than a minor inconvenience. Since I know chi gain is less, I try and play my wiz to require less. It's annoying to have to use CE, or not be able to use an Ulti whenever I want, but I deal. I know I'm only 92 so I'm just at the tip of the demon iceberg (or fireberg?? since I'm hell), so take things with a grain of salt.

I really find the extra control skills extremely helpful for survivability (haven't gotten Demon Stone Barrier yet, so I make no comment). I've been saved a few times in TW by my hailstorm proc. When I see a BM coming, I slow with gush (assuming he's not TOO close), hailstorm and kite. (With the Faction I'm normally TW'ing against, I'm up against R8/9/Nirv, so I have problems taking people down with my +4 Aquadash Q_Q). Another thing that is good, especially about hailstorm, in TW is freezing where you think an Ulti might be better. In my TW squad there are normally a few higher level sage wizards. So, casting hailstorm before they get their BIDS out allows me to delay Cata-barbs and other melee's so they can't run away from BIDS (or run to kill the other wiz).

For more info about Demons in TW, see here: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=669902&highlight=Demon Some info may be outdated since it's from a year ago (so no necro XD).

As far as 1v1 PvP, I can't tell you much since I don't do it yet. And in PvE, we're useless, demon or sage, pretty much no one wants us b:cry

And Disclaimer number 2: I'm only level 92, so I don't know everything yet XD. These are just my overall impressions from what I've experienced so far.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Going demon so you can hailstorm targets for other better wizzies is a good reason to go demon. In fact, it's a bad reason...

Cytte - Harshlands

negativereaction wrote: »

sage advantage extends to more than just "hoping bids procs."

i can't stress enough how dry you will run on chi in any sort of prolonged fight, especially group vs group and especially against players who aren't just 1-hits. forget Master Li's and Pyro, even the half-cost on bt and ms is huge. and yes, reliance on cloud eruption (or teas) will severely limit what you can do with your genie DEX-wise (or with other apothecaries).

it is easy enough to find the many, many upsides of going sage elsewhere on the forums, so i'm not going to reconstruct them all in yet another thread, but i want to make sure sage isn't dismissed as just being "lol bids proc." that's only a small fraction of the reasons you shouldn't go demon.

Okay for one, I didn't mention anything about sage wizzies or them just being (delish) BIDs proc in my post, and as I said before I am still on the edge about each and am weighing the pros and cons of each.

Two, I am aware of the pros and cons of sage and demon, this thread was to ask those with experience how limiting the demon cons are, not a ask for an obvious statement.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Going demon so you can hailstorm targets for other better wizzies is a good reason to go demon. In fact, it's a bad reason...

I think he meant it was an advantage, Also its a good show of teamwork if ya ask me.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Cytte - Harshlands wrote: »

I think he meant it was an advantage, Also its a good show of teamwork if ya ask me.

A good show of teamwork is a bm suicide stunning/HFing a crowd of people...

I'll admit he's found a good way to be useful, but I'm just saying that even mentioning it as if it's somehow something that should factor into your culti decision is a joke.

Fresh_Corpse - Sanctuary

I just love demon quaff and SR. Free sutra chance every proc and a 1 spark sutra replica seems oh so fun. Getting the gear to build one right would be a pain though and anythign less than full JOSD rank 9 seems to be sin food these days.

MSing an archer as they run in to stun is also hilarious. Hey wheres your range advantage now pew pew tranny?

Sage does benifit a lot more from rank 9 so its the default endgame faceroll path. Not a lot of wizzies regret going it.

Seriously though unless you just really love the class you'll reroll a tideborn eventually anyways so just play what you find amuseing. Either you'll ahve fun with it or ragequit (you would do so anyways) and make a fish.

Tsuyoginos - Heavens Tear

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Going demon so you can hailstorm targets for other better wizzies is a good reason to go demon. In fact, it's a bad reason...

What makes you think that's WHY I went Demon? And also, until I'm good to kill **** myself, I make others do it b:laugh

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Tsuyoginos - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What makes you think that's WHY I went Demon? And also, until I'm good to kill **** myself, I make others do it b:laugh

You listed it as a plus. Obviously it wouldn't be the only reason but ijs that even mentioning it is ludicrous since it's such a non factor in the grand scheme of cultivation choice.

And don't sell yourself short in terms of damage. Tbh our ultimates are the great equalizers in terms of level and gear. A bids crit is going to hurt anyone unless they're r9.

Fresh_Corpse - Sanctuary

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

You listed it as a plus. Obviously it wouldn't be the only reason but ijs that even mentioning it is ludicrous since it's such a non factor in the grand scheme of cultivation choice.

And don't sell yourself short in terms of damage. Tbh our ultimates are the great equalizers in terms of level and gear. A bids crit is going to hurt anyone unless they're r9.

(unless you have a +10 tt 99 with icebourns)

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Fresh_Corpse - Sanctuary wrote: »

(unless you have a +10 tt 99 with icebourns)

(who has +10 tt99 anymore?)

Adroit - Lost City

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

(who has +10 tt99 anymore?)

with iceborns? That would be BLOODMYSTIC b:laugh

Tsuyoginos - Heavens Tear

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

You listed it as a plus. Obviously it wouldn't be the only reason but ijs that even mentioning it is ludicrous since it's such a non factor in the grand scheme of cultivation choice.

And don't sell yourself short in terms of damage. Tbh our ultimates are the great equalizers in terms of level and gear. A bids crit is going to hurt anyone unless they're r9.

Fine, let me rephrase. Instead of freezing your opponents so others can bids them.

Sutra->Hailstorm->Bids...if you have Demon BIDS and it procs-->go do something else with your 2 sparks depending on the situation.

Yay, I'm almost starting got think like a wizard. Took 2.5 years b:shutup
/troll

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

with iceborns? That would be BLOODMYSTIC b:laugh

*knocks on wood*

shh, you gotta be careful when you mention you-know-whob:quiet

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

with iceborns? That would be BLOODMYSTIC b:laugh

Yes, I know. All the skilled wizards up grade their weapon immediately so they can show how pro they are.

And as I said, I had that weapon well before the rank sale. The fact that I continued to use it rather than trying to continually out gear my competition (or qq about the rank sale and say I was quitting this game only to still be here almost a year later)? I don't have any problem admitting to that.

prof

Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »

there are no active pvping wizzies on harshlands that use demon wellspring. not that i've ever seen XD, and if they ahve been using hten it hasnt been noticeable.

i've noticed very few mages who do in lc as well, i think it has something to do with their amount of cast. since most of these mages end up with around 20% cast in their final sets, wellspring doesn't really show much of a difference.

at around 50%(which i figured most would have, but they don't), the bonus from wellspring is more useful than sutra by far; and you easily get back that 1 spark before the effect runs out.