Clawcher any good?

Drakulas__ - Sanctuary

Ther was an archer in my last faction level 90-100(sorry, forgot exact b:surrender) that used fists instead of bows. He said that he's played as every class and class build and he found the "Clawcher" to be the best in the game.

However, I've been in partys with him multiple times and from what I could tell:
1. His damage output was horrible.
2. He couldn't survive long enough in melee combat to kill anything.

One example is when another faction member needed help with his FB39 so the Clawcher said he'd solo it. It ended with the Clawcher dieing multiple times and unable to finish, so the tabber had to call me in to finish it.

Am I missing something here or are claw/fist based archers really as strong as he claims them to be? If so how can a level 90-100 one be unable to do a simple FB39?

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Drakulas__ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ther was an archer in my last faction level 90-100(sorry, forgot exact b:surrender) that used fists instead of bows. He said that he's played as every class and class build and he found the "Clawcher" to be the best in the game.

However, I've been in partys with him multiple times and from what I could tell:
1. His damage output was horrible.
2. He couldn't survive long enough in melee combat to kill anything.

One example is when another faction member needed help with his FB39 so the Clawcher said he'd solo it. It ended with the Clawcher dieing multiple times and unable to finish, so the tabber had to call me in to finish it.

Am I missing something here or are claw/fist based archers really as strong as he claims them to be? If so how can a level 90-100 one be unable to do a simple FB39?

People make clawchers because it is one of the easiest classes to obtain 5.0 with due to the -int on the rank gear. Clawchers are inferior to other melee based classes because they cannot get bloodpaint, and as such have to compensate with pots/heals/higher defenses. Higher defense is also difficult to obtain due to the fact that LA is known for its bad defenses.

Clawchers can be quite powerful, but I stand by my statement that you would be better off just making a sin, if not a BM for melee ranged dps purposes. And that story with your fac mate makes it sound like he has inferior gear, or perhaps was just extremely careless. Clawcher dph with a bow will always be lower than a pure dex archer's unless the clawcher is also pure dex and uses a high level str tome to use claws. Also, Clawcher's should only start to shine post 99 due to the newly acquired -int options.

<--Pure Bow sage mind you. Ive solo'd 79 and down.

Lythianaa - Dreamweaver

Yea, I think it really comes to what sort of equips you have, refine levels, and gems. An archer is like a sin but not meant for melee. They have low defenses and as mentioned, cannot get bloodpaint. But they can make base 5.0 due to their rank equipment so clawchers can become very strong with the right kinds of things.

truekossy

That said, his inability to even do 39 isn't because of using claws. It's because he just plain sucked.

Okeano - Harshlands

Drakulas__ - Sanctuary wrote: »

He said that he's played as every class and class build and he found the "Clawcher" to be the best in the game.

*Facepalm*

truekossy

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

*Facepalm*

You don't have a palm, fishie. Go facefin instead.

Decus - Dreamweaver

truekossy wrote: »

That said, his inability to even do 39 isn't because of using claws. It's because he just plain sucked.

This.

Vindis - Dreamweaver

truekossy wrote: »

That said, his inability to even do 39 isn't because of using claws. It's because he just plain sucked.

^ This again.

Though I have seen many a fail BM/Barb think they can pull half of Delirium and just get destroyed <,<

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

That archer was just uber fail. I have seen many uber fail claw archers lately(I do not use the term clawrcher because it sounds like some kind of STD). Sparking and clawing/fisting mobs that would be way easier to kill with a bow, giving no thought at all to their defenses before deciding they are a natural born melee(which should be given attention to regardless of if one uses claws or not).

If you are creating a character specifically to farm and have cash for G13-15 dagger /other -int gear , then it could be better to start a sin(technichally I suppose, although on principle I have difficulty standing the thought of playing one)

But if you are an archer, want to farm much more efficiently, and/or are poor then it is viable. Or maybe if you want to have a multipurpose char that can both farm and TW. Claw archers do have their benefits, for one due to rank chest and wearing claws rather than daggers, there is a lot more variety with potential gear sets/adorns.

Vindis - Dreamweaver

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

That archer was just uber fail. I have seen many uber fail claw archers lately(I do not use the term clawrcher because it sounds like some kind of STD). Sparking and clawing/fisting mobs that would be way easier to kill with a bow, giving no thought at all to their defenses before deciding they are a natural born melee(which should be given attention to regardless of if one uses claws or not).

^ This. So hard.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

^ This again.

Though I have seen many a fail BM/Barb think they can pull half of Delirium and just get destroyed <,<

I tried that on my Sin. It went well until stuff started resetting on me, but one AOE killed everything that still was angry at me enough to follow. I suppose if I spammed Alpha Male while running through, it might keep them with me... b:chuckle

I'm going opposite from a Claw Archer. I wanna build an Archer that doesn't use fists, has the maximum -int I can get in gear, and absolute max Dex. It would be for TW only, seeing how farming anything but... Well, spiders would be useless... I came up with a build that only required 66 base str, 5 vit and magic, and had 444 base dex at 101.

I was reluctant to do claws or fists on my current archer... I'm thinking about statting some str out and going a different route anyway. On the other hand, some GV's for farming would be nice as well, but I need a little more str for them >_>

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

I tried that on my Sin. It went well until stuff started resetting on me, but one AOE killed everything that still was angry at me enough to follow. I suppose if I spammed Alpha Male while running through, it might keep them with me... b:chuckle

I'm going opposite from a Claw Archer. I wanna build an Archer that doesn't use fists, has the maximum -int I can get in gear, and absolute max Dex. It would be for TW only, seeing how farming anything but... Well, spiders would be useless... I came up with a build that only required 66 base str, 5 vit and magic, and had 444 base dex at 101.

I was reluctant to do claws or fists on my current archer... I'm thinking about statting some str out and going a different route anyway. On the other hand, some GV's for farming would be nice as well, but I need a little more str for them >_>

I too was originally planning a build like yours, but I still need to stat some more strength out (debating whether to get a str ring and a warsoul of earth or just restat lower and forge a Ancestral Divine Hat). If I restat out some of my 104 base str atm I think I would be at...464 dex? maybe abit higher.

And yeah, I remember in my 70s watching a 9x demon barb pull half the dungeon roar, invoke, keep pulling then arma and drop dead. Needless to say BoAing everything that didnt die and staying alive was good times. b:chuckle

Aesthor - Heavens Tear

No . .

Night$aber - Dreamweaver

Yeah they are still good.Their damage is only a little lower than same aps bm/claw barb and even if they lack bp,GV gives much heal at 5 aps and thinking at same gear a 5 aps archer has higher damage than a 2.86 R8 sin and about same damage as 3.33 R8.Also i really like archer because it has both strong AoE damage but also good single target damage and i have a 100 sin by myself which i like less than my archer.

Aesthor - Heavens Tear

Claws are ONLY good if you can be permasparked and then ONLY if you need to spark more than like twice on any boss. For BHs and whatever using a bow is way better than running up to each and every mob to punch its nose.

Night$aber - Dreamweaver

Ofc im not using claws on mobs (apart from melee mobs but rarely).I'm using claws on boss and i can permaspark with Gorenox Vanity and depending on squad 2 sparks may be enough to kill the boss but i can solo FC on my archer with 5.7k hp and +5 fists with garnet gem without using too many crabs.Mobs are more annoying so i usually use my sin for soloing FC but whatever.

DeathVark - Raging Tide

using claws all the time is stupid, that archer is fail and doesn't know how to play his char.
I have also seen claw/fist archers, that have like 60-70 base VIT and 150+base STR, because they try to be "melee", which is even more ****, because they have fail HP and phys def and crit like 24% at lvl 100. They don't understand, that because of lower DPH, they need that DEX to crit more often and improve that DPS, archers rely on crit wether they are bow or claw/fist.
With that said, my archer has only 10 extra STR, compared to pure Dex build, to accomodate for Deicides (i use Battle Tactics tome +13 STR and other +STR items), which I decided to use at lvl 100 over GV, because claws have better -int and I can drop Lionheart neck and use Cube neck instead and still have 5 APS, permaspark and all that good stuff.
the best test of damage output (besides soloing FC, ofc) is CoA, where with +10 Deicides I easily outdamge a squad of BM with +5-6 Deicides and a sin with +6 R8 daggs. I do lose to a +12 nirvy sin or a +10 Deicides BM, but u can't have it all, right?b:laugh
I do like to play my archer, so I enjoy my char being versatile and being able to farm/make coin in PVE and destroy arcanes in TW with a +10 R8 bowb:victory
I do have 7350 HP with Deicides equipped unbuffed, so soloing bosses and nirvy squads is not a problem

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I too was originally planning a build like yours, but I still need to stat some more strength out (debating whether to get a str ring and a warsoul of earth or just restat lower and forge a Ancestral Divine Hat). If I restat out some of my 104 base str atm I think I would be at...464 dex? maybe abit higher.

And yeah, I remember in my 70s watching a 9x demon barb pull half the dungeon roar, invoke, keep pulling then arma and drop dead. Needless to say BoAing everything that didnt die and staying alive was good times. b:chuckle

Depending on how much str I can get via rings and other gear, the final Dex my build would have (including that from bonuses) was just shy of 500, and had a base crit rate of 36%. Going with a +str tome allowed statting even more into Dex, and obviously, crit rate went up as well. For a Demon archer, this would give an insane crit rate. I had been using two Bands from Heavens Jail rings for +str adds, but OHT rings can have much more +str addons allowing yet more str to be removed, and more dex added. Best part was, sparked APS was 1.25 APS with R8 bow, so it's still rapid fire for a quick charm tick then bam you're dead in TW.

The mobs in BH/FB's are elite. They might be level 36-42, but they hit like trucks. It takes a sin up into the 60's to even solo BH29, maybe you can do it in the 50's with a Cleric.