Endgame Fists
Comments
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Dog house = box with a hole?101 Sage Sin*/Archer
100 Demon BM*/Barb
96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
95 Demon Wiz/
94 Sage Veno
85 Psy/80 Mystic
And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
*Pre RB level0 -
now here's a question... I'll try to look into an actual build later, but something I've been considering for an all out DPS build on my own archer - when there's a healer present is to get the TT90 gold fists. These seem to be highly overlooked by... everyone. Check the stats:
Fist
Close Range
Grade 11
Attack Speed 1.43
Attack Range 2.5
Physical attack 501-554
Items Addons:
Amount:3+
Maximum Physical Attack +130
HP: +225
Sacrificial Strike: Has a chance to inflict double damage
at the cost of losing 5% HP.
a +12 refine would put the wearers physical attack at 2264-2621 with no other gears equipped at all, and minimum str allocated for weapon - according to pwcalc. If a demon archer has 5.0 base with deicide - they can still hit 5.0 sparked with a zerk weapon like this, and should be able to greatly outdamage a deicide weilder due to the sac proc. The only question is wheather or not the proc rate of sac on the buddha peace will result in out damaging the cube 'zerk procs. on the cube weapon we see a p.attack range of 2886-3004.
it might be close, and the end result of which is the better choice may ultimately come down to cultivation path. IE... for demons, the 'zerk proc may override the d.spark attack rate and result in a lower attack rate than 5.0.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Retired..0 -
Another concern would be that as you refine and shard for more HP, serk would start being more damaging as it takes a percent of your HP. The damage amp from cube, on the other hand, would be less damaging though since it increases damage you take without hindering your defense or HP.
In the end, it does come down to culti choice though in part. Anything that gives an attack speed buff is going to be more of a hindrance on a demon that isn't 5.0 base (and if a demon is 5.0 base, they have to sacrifice being able to use better gear than a sage defense-wise) than to a sage who would actually have a use for the attack speed proc so that they could, potentially, be 5.0 with base attack speed below 5.00 -
Another concern would be that as you refine and shard for more HP, serk would start being more damaging as it takes a percent of your HP. The damage amp from cube, on the other hand, would be less damaging though since it increases damage you take without hindering your defense or HP.
In the end, it does come down to culti choice though in part. Anything that gives an attack speed buff is going to be more of a hindrance on a demon that isn't 5.0 base (and if a demon is 5.0 base, they have to sacrifice being able to use better gear than a sage defense-wise) than to a sage who would actually have a use for the attack speed proc so that they could, potentially, be 5.0 with base attack speed below 5.0
A 4.0 base Demon wouldn't care either way for Berserk. 4.0 is still fast enough that it's gonna proc often enough to get them to perma-spark, and when it does proc, it'll take them to 5.0.
On my Sage Archer, I'd probably go Cube fists if I could get the 2 socket +4 set that was floating around for 40m, however I think they got sold and I will never see them again. b:cry
Zerk fists are great if you have heals. Otherwise you're gonna either **** your charm's face off or you're gonna kill yourself on Zerk. I watched a Sin go from full HP to 200k HP on a GoF G15 dagger in like 1 second doing a TT3-1. If you have 25k HP, 5% for Zerk starts turning into an awful lot of HP.101 Sage Sin*/Archer
100 Demon BM*/Barb
96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
95 Demon Wiz/
94 Sage Veno
85 Psy/80 Mystic
And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
*Pre RB level0 -
Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »I watched a Sin go from full HP to 200k HP on a GoF G15 dagger in like 1 second doing a TT3-1. If you have 25k HP, 5% for Zerk starts turning into an awful lot of HP.
What kinda Sin was he, Jean-Claude Van Damme?Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray0 -
Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »A typical BH squad has been (for example), myself, three barbarians, a veno and a blademaster.
Yea... 3 barb, 1 veno, 1 BM, and an archer. No cleric/sin... or even mystic. Either you are just talking out of your *** again. Or else you hang out with some of the highest refined people on the server to run lunar like that.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
They were all TT99+5![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »I hope Fleuri now realizes that it no longer matters who she actually is or can do in-game, as far as we're concerned, she will forever be immortalized as the TT99+5 wielding Sage archer with a harem of venos under her command!
b:chuckle
Oh, he is hilarious!
But when every sentence he writes about me contains misunderstandings to the point of silliness, I cannot think how I can say anything meaningful to him. I know that he will come up with some new and creative way of misunderstanding me, but he can do that just fine without me doing anything to help him.0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »Yea... 3 barb, 1 veno, 1 BM, and an archer. No cleric/sin... or even mystic. Either you are just talking out of your *** again. Or else you hang out with some of the highest refined people on the server to run lunar like that.
Whenwill this guy stop being so epicly butthurt about that argument? From what i read of the thread in question, Fleuri said "tt99+5 has enough dmg to kill a rank 9 archer in under 10 seconds." she later specified the circumstances in wich this was possible. The whole thing was mainly a discussion on wether or not (tt99+5 dps)10 is equal to or greater than, a rank9's hp, wich, in the circumstances she specified, is actually so.
Your rage, Kiyoshi seems to have its origin in your inability to accept the posibility of defeat by someone you clearly consider weaker than yourself.
Were you perhaps ***** by your 12 year old brother at some point in your past?0 -
Sint - Harshlands wrote: »Whenwill this guy stop being so epicly butthurt about that argument? From what i read of the thread in question, Fleuri said "tt99+5 has enough dmg to kill a rank 9 archer in under 10 seconds." she later specified the circumstances in wich this was possible. The whole thing was mainly a discussion on wether or not (tt99+5 dps)10 is equal to or greater than, a rank9's hp, wich, in the circumstances she specified, is actually so.
Your rage, Kiyoshi seems to have its origin in your inability to accept the posibility of defeat by someone you clearly consider weaker than yourself.
Were you perhaps ***** by your 12 year old brother at some point in your past?
infinite attackers = 1 rank 9?I give up on beign a blademaster. Gonna go wave my tranny **** around and pew pew.0 -
Fresh_Corpse - Sanctuary wrote: »infinite attackers = 1 rank 9?
This only holds true if they are all spherical.0 -
Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »This only holds true if they are all spherical.
Let's assume a spherical cow in a vacuum... b:chuckleProving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray0 -
Sint - Harshlands wrote: »Whenwill this guy stop being so epicly butthurt about that argument? From what i read of the thread in question, Fleuri said "tt99+5 has enough dmg to kill a rank 9 archer in under 10 seconds." she later specified the circumstances in wich this was possible. The whole thing was mainly a discussion on wether or not (tt99+5 dps)10 is equal to or greater than, a rank9's hp, wich, in the circumstances she specified, is actually so.
Your rage, Kiyoshi seems to have its origin in your inability to accept the posibility of defeat by someone you clearly consider weaker than yourself.
Were you perhaps ***** by your 12 year old brother at some point in your past?
If you would have actually read everything... it was brought up that a tt99 can't kill a r9. i guess nobody understand that "a" = one anymore. No **** if you get a horde of people together they'll manage to kill r9. I don't need anyone to point that out. Get enough tt90 or even tt60s together... I'll be the first to admit that even a r9 barb would die through turtle.
all you need is 1k tt60 +1 venos dealing 10 damage each... all they have to do is hit the barb 4 times each in that 10 seconds... bam... dead turtled barb.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Sint - Harshlands wrote: »Whenwill this guy stop being so epicly butthurt about that argument? From what i read of the thread in question, Fleuri said "tt99+5 has enough dmg to kill a rank 9 archer in under 10 seconds." she later specified the circumstances in wich this was possible. The whole thing was mainly a discussion on wether or not (tt99+5 dps)10 is equal to or greater than, a rank9's hp, wich, in the circumstances she specified, is actually so.
Your rage, Kiyoshi seems to have its origin in your inability to accept the posibility of defeat by someone you clearly consider weaker than yourself.
Were you perhaps ***** by your 12 year old brother at some point in your past?
Fleuri scenario.. with an archer with 500 hp afk/lagging/without pots/without genie/without charms/withouth pdef/mdef charms/without a whole squad/ getting chase by a phoenix/bleeding/stun/seal/armor n magic pen AND FIGHTING A +5 99 Weapon SAGE ARCHER!.
Thats close to the 1v1 scenarios.. rite? Or i think.. i forgot he was sharp tooth(SAGE) and bloodvow.
If you believe taking a 1-2 squad skirmish against 1 person is a fair square fight.. then you must be <Add a word>.
I agree.. Rank9 is obviously best gear in the game.. but if you try to prove that hh99 is superior using 10 people to accomplish.. you have fail on the process.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Face the fear. Face a war. Face the world.
Leeching CQ salary since 09'
Many names, Common Faces.0 -
Unreasonable 100% to stat that much str, get those claws,get those shards, or get that refine.
But, i believe they are the BEST possible claws/fists obtainable ingame for an archer.
http://pwcalc.com/088e3cfa20e85472
And, they ARE the best-looking.0 -
SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »Unreasonable 100% to stat that much str, get those claws,get those shards, or get that refine.
But, i believe they are the BEST possible claws/fists obtainable ingame for an archer.
http://pwcalc.com/088e3cfa20e85472
And, they ARE the best-looking.
Definitely gotta disagree there. I'd go with -int revenge-type proc G15 crab claws if I could, even with how ugleeeee they are0 -
_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »Definitely gotta disagree there. I'd go with -int revenge-type proc G15 crab claws if I could, even with how ugleeeee they are
IDK if ur right/not but you probably are.
Mine are still THE BEST LOOKING EVER!!! b:cute0 -
Ignoring kiyoshi, because it's what big boys do.KedgeSniper - Lost City wrote: »Fleuri scenario.. with an archer with 500 hp afk/lagging/without pots/without genie/without charms/withouth pdef/mdef charms/without a whole squad/ getting chase by a phoenix/bleeding/stun/seal/armor n magic pen AND FIGHTING A +5 99 Weapon SAGE ARCHER!.
Thats close to the 1v1 scenarios.. rite? Or i think.. i forgot he was sharp tooth(SAGE) and bloodvow.
If you believe taking a 1-2 squad skirmish against 1 person is a fair square fight.. then you must be <Add a word>.
I agree.. Rank9 is obviously best gear in the game.. but if you try to prove that hh99 is superior using 10 people to accomplish.. you have fail on the process.
I dont think the word "superior" was ever used that way. As i believe the argument was about "the possibility of killing a rank 9 (+10 right?) archer with tt99 +5" The argument can be resolved trough math, and possibly would haev been, were it not because kiyoshi cannot admit he might actually be wrong.
Ignoring kiyoshi, then, the question is "can a tt99+5 weapon deal enough dmg to kill a rank 9 +10 archer (unbuffed, -20% hp and debuffed with BV, using a jones blessing) in 10 seconds.
If you land 8-9 hits in those 10 seconds, given how a rank 9 +10 archer (with admitedly less than stellar shards) has 10k hp after the debuff, this means you need to land 1.25-1.11k per shot. If said archer (as he does in my calc) is wearing an mdef neck and both rank rings, dmg is reduced by 75% for pvp, followed by 51% pdef and 61% mdef, 8k base dmg would be enough to finish the job without critting(or missing), if the archer uses his genie to amp dmg/speed. Assuming Aim Low ticks his charm and freezes the guy in mid jump, it would take all of 4-5 seconds (wind shield and frenzy, string high end crits) for your r9 +10 to die.
http://pwcalc.com/728103b3de1cd960
Because i expect you to say "genie/pill" and rant about how awesome you are, if you burn your genie/pill saving your *** from a tt99+5 archer, a sin WILL stealthgank you.
EDIT: On topic, GVs are my personal preference.0 -
Sint - Harshlands wrote: »Ignoring kiyoshi, then, the question is "can a tt99+5 weapon deal enough dmg to kill a rank 9 +10 archer (unbuffed, -20% hp and debuffed with BV, using a jones blessing) in 10 seconds.
I believe his example was using a demon veno. I know sage venos can pull off the -20% hp... and just how do venos even blood vow?Sint - Harshlands wrote: »If you land 8-9 hits in those 10 seconds,
But sure... lets just assume that you are using a tt99 sage archer to pull off this. you expect to hit an r9 archer 8-9 times without him hitting you back even once? so basically like fleuri... you expect your target to be afk.Sint - Harshlands wrote: »Assuming Aim Low ticks his charm and freezes the guy in mid jump
Let me get this straight... you expect to sharp/blood vow him... then to freeze him in mid air while he jumps towards you?Sint - Harshlands wrote: »dmg is reduced by 75% for pvp, followed by 51% pdef and 61% mdef,
FYI... while you are right about the 75% pvp damage reduction. r9 archer these days tend to have MORE p.def then m.def unbuffed.
It seems like no one knows how to build an archer anymore... how about trying this for your target.
http://pwcalc.com/808bca2daeb1eb841. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Sint - Harshlands wrote: »
This archer is a 1-shot. If you're somehow expecting to get 8-9 hits off against a R9 on this archer within 10 seconds and NOT be sniped off and 1-shot, you don't have a clue what you're talking about or you expect your opponent to be AFK.0 -
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This archer is a 1-shot. If you're somehow expecting to get 8-9 hits off against a R9 on this archer within 10 seconds and NOT be sniped off and 1-shot, you don't have a clue what you're talking about or you expect your opponent to be AFK.
winged shell will catch one hit, condor will catch several if the guy is sage, AD/ pot finishes it.
Also, kiyoshi, the rank 9 i was talking about happened to be sharded with immacs. That's still r9+10. The build you propose costs easily twice what mine cost.
If my theoretical archer in my theoretical situation crits every hit, he might still die, by the way.
Also, if my theoretical archer stuns your guy in the air, follows up with BV, then aim low and normal shots, that would probably do it, given a 20m range, and the oportune use of an imunity pot/condor.
Yeah, you could AD to save your ***. I doubt most r9 archers would. Not because your genie cant cast it but because you are an arrogant ****, as are most r9 archers.0 -
Sint - Harshlands wrote: »winged shell will catch one hit, condor will catch several if the guy is sage, AD/ pot finishes it.
Also, kiyoshi, the rank 9 i was talking about happened to be sharded with immacs. That's still r9+10. The build you propose costs easily twice what mine cost.
If my theoretical archer in my theoretical situation crits every hit, he might still die, by the way.
Also, if my theoretical archer stuns your guy in the air, follows up with BV, then aim low and normal shots, that would probably do it, given a 20m range, and the oportune use of an imunity pot/condor.
Yeah, you could AD to save your ***. I doubt most r9 archers would. Not because your genie cant cast it but because you are an arrogant ****, as are most r9 archers.
so... you assume that you'll catch the r9 in free fall... and he'll not either genie or apoc when he notice hes cursed. and to top it off you expect to crit 8 times in a roll? doing the math in my head... even at 40% crit rate... there is a 0.06% chance of that happening. add on 90% chance of stun and freeze... that brings down the odd to 0.05%. so over all you have 0.05% chance of pulling this off... pending you can catch an r9 in FREE FALL... and who choose NOT TO genie/apoc/defense charm. i think you actually beat fleuri in the lowest odds of killing an r9 contest.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »so... you assume that you'll catch the r9 in free fall... and he'll not either genie or apoc when he notice hes cursed. and to top it off you expect to crit 8 times in a roll? doing the math in my head... even at 40% crit rate... there is a 0.06% chance of that happening. add on 90% chance of stun and freeze... that brings down the odd to 0.05%. so over all you have 0.05% chance of pulling this off... pending you can catch an r9 in FREE FALL... and who choose NOT TO genie/apoc/defense charm. i think you actually beat fleuri in the lowest odds of killing an r9 contest.
I dont need to crit any more than i'm likely to if that archer is not fully jade sharded. As i pointed out before, i'm assuming this archer has no jades sharded. That's still r9+10. You just happen to fail epicly.
As for not using apoc/genie i already told you how to compensate for most apoc/genie options. Given how you jump at the chance to exclaim about low odds, you're likely one of he guys who woulnt genie/apoc, and instead start typing your nerdrant for when you 1shot the guy.
Luring them into the air and dropping would probably work to get a lot of r9 archers to free fall.0 -
It's true that you will probably have enough dmg to kill a +10 r9 but the chances of that happening is extremely low... Any average archer with r9 +10 will ******* a tt99 +5[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Sint - Harshlands wrote: »I dont need to crit any more than i'm likely to if that archer is not fully jade sharded. As i pointed out before, i'm assuming this archer has no jades sharded. That's still r9+10. You just happen to fail epicly.
As for not using apoc/genie i already told you how to compensate for most apoc/genie options. Given how you jump at the chance to exclaim about low odds, you're likely one of he guys who woulnt genie/apoc, and instead start typing your nerdrant for when you 1shot the guy.
Luring them into the air and dropping would probably work to get a lot of r9 archers to free fall.
so you expect to lure him in to the air... and free drop to the ground or refly without getting hit a single time? and instead of having genie/apoc of the r9 on cool down... you went ahead and assume that he won't use it? you are already fighting against the lowest geared r9 out there... and with all your "assuming", "likely", and "probably"... this does not sound like a good plan.
what you are proposing is like saying that to kill an r9 with tt99 is as easy as opening a single pack and getting an sot.
btw... i am not going to use any chance/probability words... i am going to say... one shot of non nerfed damage from the said +12 r9... WILL kill the average refine tt99 armor archer.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »Get Cube fists.
Someone in kakumau made a spreadsheet detailing the dps differences between GV and Deicides at +0, +10, with a Garnet gem +0, and garnet gem +10. GV is so close to Deicides in DPS that it's not really worth getting Deicides unless they get you to a 5.0 base aps, where GV would leave you at 4.0 base, and even then... This was considering the proc.
Then consider that Deicides are 60m~ish for a crappy 1 socket, low refine, flawless garnet set, and you can get a 2 socket, dual garnet gem, +6 or so set of GV's for 20-25m. (Prices from Sanct, YMMV).
If you want an increase in DPS with fists and have some str to burn, then get Cube fists. They have the Berserk proc, so they will give you an aps boost, but they require 150 Str. They're Lunar fists. I saw a 2 socket +4 set in AH on Sanctuary for 40m.
I'll play with PWCalc in a bit and see how Cubes stack against Striking Dragon in terms of base damage.
Great game0 -
Great Game0
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Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »so you expect to lure him in to the air... and free drop to the ground or refly without getting hit a single time? and instead of having genie/apoc of the r9 on cool down... you went ahead and assume that he won't use it? you are already fighting against the lowest geared r9 out there... and with all your "assuming", "likely", and "probably"... this does not sound like a good plan.
what you are proposing is like saying that to kill an r9 with tt99 is as easy as opening a single pack and getting an sot.
btw... i am not going to use any chance/probability words... i am going to say... one shot of non nerfed damage from the said +12 r9... WILL kill the average refine tt99 armor archer.
I can afford to take a hit on my shell, wich, as a demon archer, i can have on permanently.
Your r9 archer just spent a lot of money refining to +12.
I am not proposing to kill an r9 archer this way. I'm merely stating it is possible, wich is what the original argument was about. There is a difference between possible and probable, wich you should know by now. I dont bet on tt99+5 archers winning against r9 archers, just like i dont expect to get an SoT in my first pack. However, i know it is possible. (1/10k for the SoT)
Also, i know a lot of r9 archers would be too arrogant to think they might lose to a tt99 +5 even if they go afk. Some tards on my server would likely go afk and assume they wouldnt die anyway.0 -
Sint - Harshlands wrote: »I am not proposing to kill an r9 archer this way. I'm merely stating it is possible, wich is what the original argument was about. There is a difference between possible and probable, wich you should know by now. I dont bet on tt99+5 archers winning against r9 archers, just like i dont expect to get an SoT in my first pack. However, i know it is possible. (1/10k for the SoT)
By your logic its also possible for a level 1 veno to kill a +12 full r9 jades archer right? All the veno needs is for other to get his hp down to about 1-2... and smack the said r9 archer with the green ****. Like you said... its all possible.
You can call r9 archers "arrogant" or whatever you perfer to call them. But at the end of day... they are still better then you.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0
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