cleric vs mystic

Lady_Yukie - Sanctuary

i would like to know if cleric will pawn mystic at higher levels in PVP? i mean a PURE battle cleric. do anyone here has any experience dueling, PKing or TW with a mystic?

ILubby - Raging Tide

Lady_Yukie - Sanctuary wrote: »

i would like to know if cleric will pawn mystic at higher levels in PVP? i mean a PURE battle cleric. do anyone here has any experience dueling, PKing or TW with a mystic?

Depends on the player, but from my experience, mystic is stronger. They can do more debuffs on you(sleep, seal, stun, slow and defense debuffs) + the broken physical spell they got is annoying + they got epic shields from their pet that works against both types of damage and lasts for a decent time unlike our WoP for example.

Decus - Dreamweaver

What is a "pure battle cleric"? Full int cleric or just attack skills? Not really sure what you use to qualify that.

FWIW, from what I see on the forum and reading skills/abilities, the older classes are somewhat one-dimensional compared to the newer ones. I really can't back that up with any actual proof though, so take that statement with a grain of salt.

Scuzeme - Dreamweaver

really depends on the player skill in PVP in general.
But mystics are more versatile, sure clerics can IH themselves, but the quickcasting vital herb, and falling petals, almost equals cast of multiple stacked IH.
In addition, they have a pet which can stun, Gale force + thicket , which can both SEAL and do damage.
so overall I need to say that mystics are just a bit stronger.

Mekkhala - Lost City

Mystics seem to do better...

However, that might be because most players don't know how to counter a mystic yet. As people get more practice it might change.

_vaiya_ - Lost City

mystics have a pet that can stun lock you (i think its the devil chihyu), and their lvl 79 skill allows them to regenerate a lot of their mp. i used to duel a mystic once (we were both 6x) but he always killed me like sins do lol. if you have that pill from apothecary that makes you immune to debuffs it would help, cleric sleep skill takes a bit of time to cast and from my experience with mystic stun it seems like its instant cast from the pet. btw, that stun skill can last quite a while too..

its like pvp with any other class, you have to know what they can and will probably do to you and counter it to attack them. the only thing about mystics is that they can be unpredictable because there is a lot to try and look out for: pets, plants, their own magic attacks, and their heal which is faster than our IH. but if you do manage to catch a mystic off-guard with your sleep skill then you got them

Kagizyu - Heavens Tear

_vaiya_ - Lost City wrote: »

mystics have a pet that can stun lock you (i think its the devil chihyu), and their lvl 79 skill allows them to regenerate a lot of their mp. i used to duel a mystic once (we were both 6x) but he always killed me like sins do lol. if you have that pill from apothecary that makes you immune to debuffs it would help, cleric sleep skill takes a bit of time to cast and from my experience with mystic stun it seems like its instant cast from the pet. btw, that stun skill can last quite a while too..

its like pvp with any other class, you have to know what they can and will probably do to you and counter it to attack them. the only thing about mystics is that they can be unpredictable because there is a lot to try and look out for: pets, plants, their own magic attacks, and their heal which is faster than our IH. but if you do manage to catch a mystic off-guard with your sleep skill then you got them

5 second stun, instant from devil.
Plus, we got a 6 second immune to stun/sleep/immob I believe... I'm not sure if it limits some... really awkwardly.

mryc

Cleric attacks first; Chromatic Seal the Mystic, kill the pet, charge up, then unleash hell on the sleeping victim.

Mystic attacks first; Expect to be stunned for about 5 seconds, then if you survive over the next 6 seconds the Mystic will most likely have Leached the pet, making them immune to stun, freeze and have a variaty of buffs on them. Stack 3 IH, sage/demon spark, Razor Feathers (with luck this will kill the pet as well as hurt the Mystic, if not use Siren's Kiss also). When the pet is down the leach ends, Chromatic Seal the Mystic, and then take your time to build chi back up, get all your nice buffs up and blast it away.

Oviously different people play differently, but this is a general thing I would try.

A cleric working with a Mystic to pk people would be amasing;
Mystic casts Nature's Vengeance (doubles the damage that Absorb Soul hits)
Cleric uses Chromatic Seal and buffs up the Mystic.
Mystic then can keep casting Absorb Soul, which does fairly high damage and doesn't break sleep.

Why hate Mystics when we work together so well ^.^

nutzzers

Mystics are probably better as in the fact that they have a pet and they can heal .

Though, not many people have tried this out i dont think, so as time goes by, it should change .

though i really hope a cleric can beat a mystic >.> .b:angry

Hiemus - Raging Tide

I lasted a good 1x seconds against a 7x Mystics...

DuckTapez - Archosaur

Hiemus - Raging Tide wrote: »

I lasted a good 1x seconds against a 7x Mystics...

fail mystic much

b:shutup

but don't use "how long i can survive against them" as a means to measure everyone's pk skills
if that were the case then barbs would be the one that's considered the OP class, not sins

Yamiino - Heavens Tear

PF get channeling and plume shot the hell outa him/her sleeping pet first ofcourse. b:chuckle

Yes mystics are gonna be a pain with R9...

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Ignore pet. Plume Shell and IH stack before duel starts. Sleep mystic. Nuke mystic. Problem solved?

Kaitica - Heavens Tear

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ignore pet. Plume Shell and IH stack before duel starts. Sleep mystic. Nuke mystic. Problem solved?

Mystic can stun you faster than sleep because pet is instacast.

Mystic can sleep you ontop of that stun for 15 or so seconds.

Mystic has a skill that by passes all buffs negating damage and doesn't wake up sleep.

Survive 3-5 physical attacks that deal a ton of damage.... your pro

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Kaitica - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Mystic can stun you faster than sleep because pet is instacast.

Mystic can sleep you ontop of that stun for 15 or so seconds.

Mystic has a skill that by passes all buffs negating damage and doesn't wake up sleep.

Survive 3-5 physical attacks that deal a ton of damage.... your pro

An end game a cleric should have a good 4k phys defense with easily obtainable ornaments/refines. Also, Plume Shell at level 10 absorbs 80% physical damage. They also have access to the 79 skill Wings of Protection, which is basically guaranteed protection vs. 1 shots.

Mystics are abit of a joke class in pvp in my experience, they rely too heavily on stuns/control skills and pets. They also (so far in my experiences) fail to kill me faster than I can kill them. Then again, I'm an archer. IF I knew any decent mystics personally I would just log my gfs cleric and go duel some, but I don't know any that are similarly geared. Perhaps I'll duel my brother's mystic when it reaches 100 so I can see what all the fuss is about.

Btw, genie skills go a LONG way for that whole "oh noes Im is slept/stunned!11" thing that you guys talk about. (Fortify/Badge/AD)

I imagine the fight should go: No one is stunned or slept (assuming the mystic also has access to genies) and then its just a matter of who can DD better and who can outlast whos heals. Seeing as any random mystic that *I* have personally encountered and randomly dueled in 1k or squads has posed little challenge, whereas I've met several clerics that are quite capable of defeating me (keep in mind I am an archer aka I have more DD power than a mystic, especially in the physical department). I'd have to look into mystic skills to be honest, I normally kill them before they really do anything. Antistun--> Normals has worked everytime.

Pretty sure clerics have other classes to worry about abit more than mystics... :P

inb4zomgcragglordroflpwnsclericsxD

Yamiino - Heavens Tear wrote: »

plume shot the hell outa him/her sleeping pet first ofcourse. b:chuckle

This probably works quite well. ^

VoItaire - Harshlands

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

An end game a cleric should have a good 4k phys defense with easily obtainable ornaments/refines. Also, Plume Shell at level 10 absorbs 80% physical damage. They also have access to the 79 skill Wings of Protection, which is basically guaranteed protection vs. 1 shots.

Mystics are abit of a joke class in pvp in my experience, they rely too heavily on stuns/control skills and pets. They also (so far in my experiences) fail to kill me faster than I can kill them. Then again, I'm an archer. IF I knew any decent mystics personally I would just log my gfs cleric and go duel some, but I don't know any that are similarly geared. Perhaps I'll duel my brother's mystic when it reaches 100 so I can see what all the fuss is about.

Btw, genie skills go a LONG way for that whole "oh noes Im is slept/stunned!11" thing that you guys talk about. (Fortify/Badge/AD)

I imagine the fight should go: No one is stunned or slept (assuming the mystic also has access to genies) and then its just a matter of who can DD better and who can outlast whos heals. Seeing as any random mystic that *I* have personally encountered and randomly dueled in 1k or squads has posed little challenge, whereas I've met several clerics that are quite capable of defeating me (keep in mind I am an archer aka I have more DD power than a mystic, especially in the physical department). I'd have to look into mystic skills to be honest, I normally kill them before they really do anything. Antistun--> Normals has worked everytime.

Pretty sure clerics have other classes to worry about abit more than mystics... :P

inb4zomgcragglordroflpwnsclericsxD

This probably works quite well. ^

You do realize that absorb soul completely ignores both Wings of Protection and Plume Shell right? It even goes through AD in duels so they aren't that safe from one shots or charm bypass...

Mystics can actually get away with relying a bit on control skills because they can cause seal really often, and seal can't be blocked by anti stuns. Really, you've been facing some bad mystics... Really bad mystics. And I don't think duels are a very good reference because you don't start at max range... But anyway, let's go ahead and put it into duels for you >.> If I were dueling an archer and they were to use their anti stun thingy, I would do many things depending on my current state:

1)If I were currently using devil and not close enough to use gale force, I would simply knock them back and kite their anti stun by flying. By time it runs out I send in devil to stun, use swirling mist, then thicket, summon listless, use nature's, if you're still alive I would lyse listless, putting you to sleep, call back pet, absorb soul for some nice dmg and it won't break sleep, then if you're STILL alive, gale force and if you live through that you're most likely sealed, and I doubt it you'd live through that seal if still alive...

2)If using storm, I would have her seal you while casting swirling mist, her seal doesn't last long so should run out as I start to cast gale force for another seal, summon listless, thicket, for another seal, if they try to use stunning arrow withing that interval I'd just AD, and they usually don't live through that, but if they did well, continue above from thicket.

3)If using salvation, I would energy leech, knock back, kite kite kite, use AD to get in thicket, blah blah blah ending with the sleep and so on.

Now this is not considering that the archer could easily use one of their own genie skills to derail the chain, but from my experience, they usually just blow AD while sealed, effectively wasting it. Again, fortify and badge don't work on seals.

Now against clerics I usually don't need a pet summon, but if I were to use one it'd make setting up much easier. Cleric sleep is easy enough to live through thanks to petals instantly healing me after taking a hit, and then nature's barrier afterwards to reduce all their incoming dmg for the next few seconds by half. If the heal or the barrier are too slow and the cleric will be able to two shot, then I can just AD as soon as the first attack hits, get some heals in, and reduce their dmg then. Then I just use swirling mist, summon listless, nature's, lysing, befuddling, absorb soul, gale force or thicket depending on how long I'd need them to be sealed, but absorb soul or gale force usually ends it. And with an enhanced version of their own sleep strategy.

Again this can be easily countered with a tactful genie skill, but it's usually really easy to work around anyway. Clerics are kinda disadvantaged to mystics. Only clerics I ever really get killed by are the ones who can one shot me with crit, and that's only r8+7 or higher so we'll see how that goes when I hit 100.

@Yamiino
I've seen clerics sleep my pet before and it's kinda funny actually. It's not a veno, we don't have to rely on our summons for huge dmg or control skills. When they do that I usually just thicket them and so on. I can usually beat other equal geared casters besides venos without a pet summon.

But I don't really like the idea of listing a chain of skills and assuming it will go your way because different people react differently, so I'm gonna stop there...

Vindis - Dreamweaver

VoItaire - Harshlands wrote: »

1)If I were currently using devil and not close enough to use gale force, I would simply knock them back and kite their anti stun by flying. By time it runs out I send in devil to stun, use swirling mist, then thicket, summon listless, use nature's, if you're still alive I would lyse listless, putting you to sleep, call back pet, absorb soul for some nice dmg and it won't break sleep, then if you're STILL alive, gale force and if you live through that you're most likely sealed, and I doubt it you'd live through that seal if still alive...

Did you really just claim you would kite a class with a 34 metre range for 15 seconds by flying? Archers have 2 antistuns, the 15 second +30% damage reduction/speed one. And an 8 second holy path one. Did I mention the 34 metre range thing? And you used knockback? Apologies, but what exactly is a mystic going to do to prevent me from Stunning for 4.5 seconds/Freezing for 8 in the deadzone (4 metre range where you are unable to attack back for around 11 seconds total)? Because thats probably worth mentioning. Also, Lawbreaker works nicely vs. Seal, ijs. You are acting as if I have never fought wizards before.

2)If using storm, I would have her seal you while casting swirling mist, her seal doesn't last long so should run out as I start to cast gale force for another seal, summon listless, thicket, for another seal, if they try to use stunning arrow withing that interval I'd just AD, and they usually don't live through that, but if they did well, continue above from thicket.

^ This seems the best strategy, I would probably have to legitimately kite to make countering the seals work out. That or just Lawbreaker and stunlock like I would a wizzy.

3)If using salvation, I would energy leech, knock back, kite kite kite, use AD to get in thicket, blah blah blah ending with the sleep and so on.

This strategy would just lose. I've encountered it. Anything relying heavily on kiting or knockback against an archer tends to work out badly.

Now this is not considering that the archer could easily use one of their own genie skills to derail the chain, but from my experience, they usually just blow AD while sealed, effectively wasting it. Again, fortify and badge don't work on seals.

Yes, most archers will fail like that. It's quite sad.

Now against clerics I usually don't need a pet summon, but if I were to use one it'd make setting up much easier. Cleric sleep is easy enough to live through thanks to petals instantly healing me after taking a hit, and then nature's barrier afterwards to reduce all their incoming dmg for the next few seconds by half. If the heal or the barrier are too slow and the cleric will be able to two shot, then I can just AD as soon as the first attack hits, get some heals in, and reduce their dmg then. Then I just use swirling mist, summon listless, nature's, lysing, befuddling, absorb soul, gale force or thicket depending on how long I'd need them to be sealed, but absorb soul or gale force usually ends it. And with an enhanced version of their own sleep strategy.

Again this can be easily countered with a tactful genie skill, but it's usually really easy to work around anyway. Clerics are kinda disadvantaged to mystics. Only clerics I ever really get killed by are the ones who can one shot me with crit, and that's only r8+7 or higher so we'll see how that goes when I hit 100.

I'll have to test the rest of the information when I am able. Perhaps I'll worldchat for a decent mystic if I am extremely bored in North Arch sometime :P

And ijs, Clerics can pretty much take my archer strategy and apply it to survive most archers and sins, so I'm not sure if a Mystic is really capable of posing a higher threat than a sin, but it could be possible I suppose. What skills do mystics have to counter a 16+ second sleep?

I suppose Mystic could be anti-caster based much like a seeker is anti-LA.

Kaitica - Heavens Tear

Well, archers o're there... Lolz.

Not many people have skills that break seal, most don't even have break stun which is disappointing. Ofc you may have it but your not everyone. They think its damage damage damage, poison, windshield, AD, pew pew.

Also, you dont even know how many archer's ive met without that 79 skill b:chuckle
Or any class really.... They think its too expensive til they hear about 100

Mystics have anti stun skills, and damage absorbers. We can tank a ton.

Many Mystics are starting out like psychics... NO ONE KNOWS HOW TO PLAY THEM RIGHT
Still kinda like now for TB, or every other class....







Rank 8 doesn't make you pro, it just gives you a second more of survival time before you die.

StacysMum - Dreamweaver

Vs Crag sleep and lol or Jump on mount and lol
Vs Kiting Mystic, counter kite wait for resets, bore him to death if you need to.
Its pretty even as far as I can see, gonna be more a case of who got better gears and luck(PWI favourite stat to compensate for bad design) rather than skill.

VoItaire - Harshlands

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'll have to test the rest of the information when I am able. Perhaps I'll worldchat for a decent mystic if I am extremely bored in North Arch sometime :P

And ijs, Clerics can pretty much take my archer strategy and apply it to survive most archers and sins, so I'm not sure if a Mystic is really capable of posing a higher threat than a sin, but it could be possible I suppose. What skills do mystics have to counter a 16+ second sleep?

I suppose Mystic could be anti-caster based much like a seeker is anti-LA.

Heck yes I would kite an archer like that. I assumed it would be obvious that the flying part was so that they couldn't catch you with their increased movement speed or holy path, but I guess not. And the point of knocking back is to create more distance and give you more time to fly away. When their anti stun runs out all I have to do is send in devil to stun, making their range useless. If they see devil coming and kill it? All I have to do is summon another and I can keep doing it over and over lol it's happened once. And you do realize by leeching salvation mystics not only get a 4k dmg absorb shield and 4.5k HoT that ticks after you break through the shield but also anti stun right? So it'll make kiting a lot easier, and then they don't expect the AD to use thicket, which is understandable because thicket casts fast and has very subtle channeling unlike a wizzie ulti :P so it's kinda hard to react to. I'm aware of the genie skill lawbreaker, but I didn't bother including it in as a possible skill someone might use simply because I have never come across anyone who has it, and it also won't stop any incoming seals after. What's to say they won't use it on storm's seal not knowing the difference between the seals that last long and the seals that don't? By not kiting an archer after they use their anti stun or using some genie skill to counter you're pretty much letting them get the first hit which is like standing around waiting for a sin to attack you from stealth.

Vindis - Dreamweaver

VoItaire - Harshlands wrote: »

Heck yes I would kite an archer like that. I assumed it would be obvious that the flying part was so that they couldn't catch you with their increased movement speed or holy path, but I guess not. And the point of knocking back is to create more distance and give you more time to fly away. When their anti stun runs out all I have to do is send in devil to stun, making their range useless. If they see devil coming and kill it? All I have to do is summon another and I can keep doing it over and over lol it's happened once. And you do realize by leeching salvation mystics not only get a 4k dmg absorb shield and 4.5k HoT that ticks after you break through the shield but also anti stun right? So it'll make kiting a lot easier, and then they don't expect the AD to use thicket, which is understandable because thicket casts fast and has very subtle channeling unlike a wizzie ulti :P so it's kinda hard to react to. I'm aware of the genie skill lawbreaker, but I didn't bother including it in as a possible skill someone might use simply because I have never come across anyone who has it, and it also won't stop any incoming seals after. What's to say they won't use it on storm's seal not knowing the difference between the seals that last long and the seals that don't? By not kiting an archer after they use their anti stun or using some genie skill to counter you're pretty much letting them get the first hit which is like standing around waiting for a sin to attack you from stealth.

How long does this anti-stun last for? Because if it isn't like a 22+ seconds antistun the archer will be immune to stun longer than a mystic AND still have genie available for Lawbreaker or other skills. Also, I still doubt anyone can out run an archer except maybe a holy pathing barb, but even then they will still get caught unless they have enough vit on their genie to triple holy path (not sure that is even possible). And how exactly you would fly out of an archer's range is confusing to me, seeing as wings are actually slower than running away. If you propose to escape vertically, I could see the strategy, but against an archer that is like asking to let my antistuns come off cooldown and get stunlocked in the air completely out of range. The second one walks out of an archer's range they have made a mistake, because the archer (if intelligent) can just hold you in the deadzone for 13+ seconds. With my relatively low bow aps of .87 (I don't have cape or tome or ornas or nirvy legs like most archers on my server) I would be able to get in at least...14 attacks, almost 15. I sincerely doubt a mystic can survive that many attacks, ijs.

Everyone knows archers were designed to be robe killers. And I think most archer's would agree, mystics are the easiest robe to kill. In 1v1 or in groups. I'd probably say Psys (SoS, SoV, Soulburn) or a well geared wizard (I know many that have at least 9k phys defense self buffed) would be the hardest. Clerics are a mixed bag, Venos are easy if you freeze their pets.

Anyways, this was more about clerics vs mystics anyways. Maybe in a couple months people will get bored and start leveling mystic alts for me to actually combat against...

And yes Lawbreaker is quite rare, but it is effective.

uncleblademaster

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How long does this anti-stun last for? Because if it isn't like a 22+ seconds antistun the archer will be immune to stun longer than a mystic AND still have genie available for Lawbreaker or other skills. Also, I still doubt anyone can out run an archer except maybe a holy pathing barb, but even then they will still get caught unless they have enough vit on their genie to triple holy path (not sure that is even possible). And how exactly you would fly out of an archer's range is confusing to me, seeing as wings are actually slower than running away. If you propose to escape vertically, I could see the strategy, but against an archer that is like asking to let my antistuns come off cooldown and get stunlocked in the air completely out of range. The second one walks out of an archer's range they have made a mistake, because the archer (if intelligent) can just hold you in the deadzone for 13+ seconds. With my relatively low bow aps of .87 (I don't have cape or tome or ornas or nirvy legs like most archers on my server) I would be able to get in at least...14 attacks, almost 15. I sincerely doubt a mystic can survive that many attacks, ijs.

Everyone knows archers were designed to be robe killers. And I think most archer's would agree, mystics are the easiest robe to kill. In 1v1 or in groups. I'd probably say Psys (SoS, SoV, Soulburn) or a well geared wizard (I know many that have at least 9k phys jdefense self buffed) would be the hardest. Clerics are a mixed bag, Venos are easy if you freeze their pets.

Anyways, this was more about clerics vs mystics anyways. Maybe in a couple months people will get bored and start leveling mystic alts for me to actually combat against...

And yes Lawbreaker is quite rare, but it is effective.

So how would you react to a Mystic with Salvation leeched...holy pathing next to you then just stun/freezelocking you? Sure you might be able to counter if your fast enough but how would you counter that? Sage energy leech gives 9 seconds of antistun plus genie skills... a lot more. Lol. Also there are instant cast like spidervine which will slow you down by a lot along with your channeling speed. Also creeper which will lower your defenses even lower. If you got a set of fists or claws although..maybe you can kill if your not already frozen/sealed from Gale Force. Also during a hard hitting move like thicket that also does the same thing...listless can be summoned and lysed or gale force again.

Also salvation can be summonded and leech very fast. Gale Force is also the largest AOE range skill of any class. So if you tried to kite...Gale Force would still hit you hard and likely frozen .

Doom_Panda - Harshlands

Necro...

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Doom_Panda - Harshlands wrote: »

Necro...

^

Hai Doom ♥b:flower

Decus - Dreamweaver

necronecronecro

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