Sin damage issue

RioNHale - Archosaur

Ok this is something that I hope has already been discussed but im gna stress my own anger at it...

okay

deep breath...


WHY THE HELL DO SINS GET TO DO 2 SECONDS OF DAMAGE AT HIGH APS ON A PLAYER THAT DOSENT GET TRACKED OR RECORDED FROM STEALTH BY THE TARGET OFTEN RESULTING IN THE DEATH OF THE VICTIM BEFORE THEY HAVE APPEARED ON SCREEN, ESPCIALLY IF THEY ARE HIGH REFINED R9?!?!?!?


Ah... yeah so knowing sins are broken and all, ive seen this happen way way way way way way way too often.

Sin pops from stealth, your dead, what just happened? apparently they hit u 8 times 2 sparked and you couldnt see them yet cos they were still unstealthing.


Watch the "Cannot perform action while dead" spam.

so what I wanna know is, how do arcanes especially feel about it and maybe some SS examples for kicks.

Evict - Heavens Tear

I have a question..

WHY DO YOU NEED TO TALK IN BIG RED WRITING? ALSO, THE SIZE OF THE FONT IS BIG ENOUGH, NO NEED TO OVERKILL WITH CAPS.

NoXide_ - Heavens Tear

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have a question..

WHY DO YOU NEED TO TALK IN BIG RED WRITING? ALSO, THE SIZE OF THE FONT IS BIG ENOUGH, NO NEED TO OVERKILL WITH CAPS.

what she said ^

Orintaz - Archosaur

Arcanes? What arcanes? Ha psychics >:OOOO thats the **** :DDDD

VoItaire - Harshlands

Here's one from a long time ago. Notice who it says I got killed by ^^

As an arcane, I hate it, especially when they stealth spark. My advice to you? Run around in circles whenever you know that the creepers are lurkin'. They won't be able to get in very many auto hits on a moving target. Psys have the edge over other AAs though since retaliation prevents sins from leading with control skills.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Sins are OP.


Don't bother trying to fight it, don't bother arguing about it. Just realize you're dealing with a horribly broken class and move on.

NoXide_ - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Sins are OP.


Don't bother trying to fight it, don't bother arguing about it. Just realize you're dealing with a horribly broken class and move on.

what she said too ^

RioNHale - Archosaur

@ Evict, its for emphasis


@ Rawrgh I fight sins all the time I can kill them even at r9 +12

however my issue is that way too often they can tick your charm before appearing out of stealth, its just stupid theres so many factors that assist sins in getting the easiest kills ever.


I never leave tiger form due to sins op-invisible damage.

Maybe ill go fraps record some cases of it happening, its way worse on my bm usually I get killed without any damage showing at all.

NoXide_ - Heavens Tear

RioNHale - Archosaur wrote: »

@ Evict, its for emphasis


@ Rawrgh I fight sins all the time I can kill them even at r9 +12

however my issue is that way too often they can tick your charm before appearing out of stealth, its just stupid theres so many factors that assist sins in getting the easiest kills ever.


I never leave tiger form due to sins op-invisible damage.

Maybe ill go fraps record some cases of it happening, its way worse on my bm usually I get killed without any damage showing at all.

thats something to do with server lag, ping, fps, player lag. not the sins fault

VoItaire - Harshlands

Aizza - Harshlands wrote: »

Not all sins auto-hit.... and I have skills to sleep you and hold you still.. With psy I wait till their buffs are over..many are too lazy to keep totally buffed up. Since I have a 81psy, I can recognize them.

I know that not all sins auto hit, that's why I said psys have an edge over other arcanes since sins won't be able to lead with a control skill if they have retaliation up. And I have never really seen a psy who does not keep either stunning or retaliation up at all times when outside of sz, actively pvping.

AriesBreath - Raging Tide

If you think that's bad. I was killed by a sin yesterday without my charm even ticking. I have 9.3k hp unbuffed, 41 defense levels and about 4k p.def with self buffs. My damage log?

"... Deals 4xxx damage.
... Deals 2xxx damage.
Unable to perform action while dead
Unable to perform action while dead
Unable to perform action while dead"

My charm didn't even tick. If ever a class could get more broken... b:angry

NoXide_ - Heavens Tear

AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »

If you think that's bad. I was killed by a sin yesterday without my charm even ticking. I have 9.3k hp unbuffed, 41 defense levels and about 4k p.def with self buffs. My damage log?

"... Deals 4xxx damage.
... Deals 2xxx damage.
Unable to perform action while dead
Unable to perform action while dead
Unable to perform action while dead"

My charm didn't even tick. If ever a class could get more broken... b:angry

bms can do that too.. lol ( not defending the sin class just pointing out a fact )

but yes sins are OP, just got stage 2 nirvana zerk daggers and i can tell you now the damage makes me have multiple orgasums and now im really h0rny.

AriesBreath - Raging Tide

NoXide_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

bms can do that too.. lol ( not defending the sin class just pointing out a fact )

but yes sins are OP, just got stage 2 nirvana zerk daggers and i can tell you now the damage makes me have multiple orgasums and now im really h0rny.

xD Difference is, bms can't spark in stealth and pop on you. Gz, but ughhh. The poor clerics that you are gonna **** with them... b:cry

NoXide_ - Heavens Tear

AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »

xD Difference is, bms can't spark in stealth and pop on you. Gz, but ughhh. The poor clerics that you are gonna **** with them... b:cry

nah they just spark in mid air above you then drop down, just as bad really.
i dont go after clerics unless i hate them otherwise il just ask them for buffs

Okeano - Harshlands

NoXide_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

nah they just spark in mid air above you then drop down, just as bad really.

LOLOLOL!

no.

RioNHale - Archosaur

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

LOLOLOL!

no.

+1


Thats silly comparing a VISIBLE bm to an INVISIBLE sin.

In no way the same.


But Oke my point is that they have SO much damage that they can kill you by via 1-2 seconds of lag.

1-2 seconds to kill me? A 25k hp r9 barb with 41 def lvl? Before I can even see them? It dosent happen all the time, but they are very capable of it with ease.

And it has skipped charm ticks for me too, self buffed only w/tiger ive seen 7k 6.8k 7k in 1 second hardly any time to even click expel and already dead thinking wtf?

It hasnt happened as many times recently cos if I know they are there I can prepare better for their attempts.
The thing I keep finding is if they fail to kill me in under 5 seconds, they go back to stealth and wait 2-3 mins for all their cooldowns and try again and repeat over and over and over until I get bored and just go afk.


Its dumb and one of the many reasons sins kill pk fun for every other class.

Ois - Lost City

I gotta agree with this shet. Sins are only fun/useful to kill other sins with. They are so broken that it's usually not even entertaining to PK other classes.

That's why I'm lvling an archer to use my sins gear. b:victory

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

I don't understand the thrill sins get from killing the other classes.

I mean it's not like it's any challenge. Stealth spark, stun out of stealth, hit hit hit, target is dead. Repeat x20. What people think that's fun?

RioNHale - Archosaur

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

I don't understand the thrill sins get from killing the other classes.

I mean it's not like it's any challenge. Stealth spark, stun out of stealth, hit hit hit, target is dead. Repeat x20. What people think that's fun?

2 types of sins in pvp.

Most people that roll sins are just looking for an easy time getting kills to feel pro. -.-

Others are the ones that play other classes and are feddup of sins ruling pk and decide to roll a sin to fight other sins.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

RioNHale - Archosaur wrote: »

2 types of sins in pvp.

Most people that roll sins are just looking for an easy time getting kills to feel pro. -.-

Others are the ones that play other classes and are feddup of sins ruling pk and decide to roll a sin to fight other sins.

I don't understand the first type. I rolled a sin on Harshlands, a pvp server, to get as much as pvp as I could. Within weeks of rolling the sin, I was sick and tired of it. No class, and I mean none, could stand up to me. I honestly don't see the thrill.

Currently leveling a sin for just that reason. Nothing feels better than killing a fail sin with your alt.

RioNHale - Archosaur

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

I don't understand the first type. I rolled a sin on Harshlands, a pvp server, to get as much as pvp as I could. Within weeks of rolling the sin, I was sick and tired of it. No class, and I mean none, could stand up to me. I honestly don't see the thrill.

Currently leveling a sin for just that reason. Nothing feels better than killing a fail sin with your alt.

Imma go lolrape people with my "pro" lvl 56 sin yo, and if my targets dont die in 3 seconds im gna QQ.

NoXide_ - Heavens Tear

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

LOLOLOL!

no.

its not as bad but it is pretty much the same thing, a bm randomly dropping down onto you 5aps`d and **** you before you even know whats happened, yeah i grant not many bms do that but it does work... lol

AriesBreath - Raging Tide

NoXide_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

its not as bad but it is pretty much the same thing, a bm randomly dropping down onto you 5aps`d and **** you before you even know whats happened, yeah i grant not many bms do that but it does work... lol

It is most definitely not the same thing for several reasons.

1) It's your fault for not constantly checking the T-screen, or paning the screen around you to keep aware of your surroundings while actively PK'ing.

2) it's almost impossible for a BM to fly right above your EXACT spot, dropping and stunning EXACTLY when he hits the ground, and then aps'ing you to death. What is more likely to happen: BM flies above unaware cleric, sparks, drops. God damn he dropped 3 steps away and has to run to stun. Cleric realizes and hits expel or has enough time to holy path away. BM QQ's over not being able to stealth after a failed kill attempt.

Sin PK is flat out ****. It requires no skill whatsoever. You just need a face, and a keyboard.

Ofc there are a select few sins, however, who refuse to use stealth while in PK. Kudos to them.

Okeano - Harshlands

RioNHale - Archosaur wrote: »

+1
But Oke my point is that they have SO much damage that they can kill you by via 1-2 seconds of lag.

1-2 seconds to kill me? A 25k hp r9 barb with 41 def lvl? Before I can even see them? It dosent happen all the time, but they are very capable of it with ease.

Oh I'm aware on how broken they are and anyone says other wise are just kidding themselves.

negativereaction

RioNHale - Archosaur wrote: »

so what I wanna know is, how do arcanes especially feel about it

i feel that if you think sins are the more OP of the two fish classes, you are mistaken.

i also feel that if you cannot preventatively counter being 2sparked from stealth, you need to hold the W key more, and that if you have a problem with non-r9 sins, you either need a better genie, better refines, or to fight someone decent at pretty much any other class (aside from like, WFs and maybe EPs) because other classes have the potential to be far more lethal.

seriously, this is a non-issue for me even when i spend most of my free time in pk hotspots.

not kidding myself, sins have two awesome things going for them: deaden nerves and the ability to get first control chain against anyone unable to see them with detection potions. the latter can be countered easily through genie skills, potions, or simply tanked; the former just takes 1-hit kills off the table, so you may need to set up a 2nd hiero bypass.

AriesBreath - Raging Tide

negativereaction wrote: »

i feel that if you think sins are the more OP of the two fish classes, you are mistaken.

Psychics are pretty damn OP with high refines, but still require some semblance of skill to play. Sins, on the other hand, do not.

negativereaction wrote: »

i also feel that if you cannot preventatively counter being 2sparked from stealth, you need to hold the W key more, and that if you have a problem with non-r9 sins, you either need a better genie, better refines, or to fight someone decent at pretty much any other class (aside from like, WFs and maybe EPs) because other classes have the potential to be far more lethal.

Because a sin would spark and pop on a moving target. Right. They have the luxury of waiting for you to be vulnerable, but you don't have the luxury of knowing if anyone is even there, or if you are just being paranoid.

negativereaction wrote: »

not kidding myself, sins have two awesome things going for them: deaden nerves and the ability to get first control chain against anyone unable to see them with detection potions. the latter can be countered easily through genie skills, potions, or simply tanked; the former just takes 1-hit kills off the table, so you may need to set up a 2nd hiero bypass.

The point of this thread is that you don't have the time for even a charm tick when a sin pops on you with a sparked stealth. And even if you survive and manage to pop expel or AD, all they do is pop back into stealth. Joy.

Also, who does control locks anymore? All they do is aps you to death.

CritCat - Archosaur

AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »

Also, who does control locks anymore? All they do is aps you to death.

1.33APS w/ TT90 +5 REQUIRES me to lock heavy armor classes.

being F2P Sucks and the sins who just APS everything to death sicken me.

I just PK for fun, and I rolled a sin because I saw how good at farming/soloing they are, the PvP aspect just comes to play when I get sent a duel request and mess around for giggles.
I'll admit, PvP as an APS sin requires:
A. Occult Ice
B. Auto Attack

PvP as low APS is more fun because you actually have a chance to slip up and lose.
I PK for fun, not numbers on a scoreboard.

NoXide_ - Heavens Tear

AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »

It is most definitely not the same thing for several reasons.

1) It's your fault for not constantly checking the T-screen, or paning the screen around you to keep aware of your surroundings while actively PK'ing.

T-Screen? wait so your stood outside west and you just happen to know who pks and who dosnt out of all the people that are out there? i dont know about your server but west dist outskirts on mine it packed with people 95% of the time. good luck sorting the pkers out from that with the T-Screen.

2) it's almost impossible for a BM to fly right above your EXACT spot, dropping and stunning EXACTLY when he hits the ground, and then aps'ing you to death. What is more likely to happen: BM flies above unaware cleric, sparks, drops. God damn he dropped 3 steps away and has to run to stun. Cleric realizes and hits expel or has enough time to holy path away. BM QQ's over not being able to stealth after a failed kill attempt.

you really think a bm needs to stun when hes demon sparked up? lol... 5aps sparked up he will most like be hitting your 1-2k ahit which means 5-10k damage a second, which means your pretty much dead before you even realised wtf just happened.

trust me if seen it loads of times, any class can ninja just as good as sin just by dropping down on them sparked up, 99% of the time people arnt gonna exspect it. there used to be a wizzard on my server who sparked > 2 spark pot > dropped down > wiped out a whole squad with BT > ran to SZ. yes he got **** for it but id have to say he was a better stealther than most sins these days.


Sin PK is flat out ****. It requires no skill whatsoever. You just need a face, and a keyboard.

i agree, i can just knife throw people across of cube now and kill them with zerk crits b:surrender

Ofc there are a select few sins, however, who refuse to use stealth while in PK. Kudos to
them.
im 1 of them sins who rarely uses stealth in 1v1s. its is unfair and i 'LOL' at sins who need to use it all the time.

now im starting to wonder if you have even pked, or are you 1 of them people who just jump on the band wagon and hates sins because others do, yes there OP but after 2 years who gives a **** anymore, just learn to play with them instead of against them.

NoXide_ - Heavens Tear

Before all the flame im just pointing out Sins arent the only class that can stealth kill / ninja kill people, yes sins have a huge advantage i agree with that, but there not the only class who can ninja people.

negativereaction

AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »

Psychics are pretty damn OP with high refines, but still require some semblance of skill to play. Sins, on the other hand, do not.

agreed that psychics still take a reasonable understanding of the class to play well, but the same is true of sins against any decent players. a f2p (or near f2p) sin can destroy lots of average players; that much is true. but those average players whining about sins being OP should not be representative of a valid metagame opinion as to whether sins are, in fact, OP. it takes a skilled sin to kill another skilled endgame player. more on this in the rest of my post:

AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »

Because a sin would spark and pop on a moving target. Right. They have the luxury of waiting for you to be vulnerable, but you don't have the luxury of knowing if anyone is even there, or if you are just being paranoid.

any class has the luxury of waiting for you to be vulnerable. how many large-scale pvp hotspot fights are "ruined" by a mage or a psychic dropping an instant-channel aoe? how about WRs running in for a stunlock after they see you burn domain? it's true that stealth makes it slightly more difficult to see it coming, so to speak, but the fact of the matter is that you should always be prepared for attacks at your most vulnerable. if you step out of safe zone at a pk hotspot, assume there's a player waiting at the edge of SZ who's going to pop out at any moment to try for a hiero bypass when you're debuffed or out of genie energy.

AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »

The point of this thread is that you don't have the time for even a charm tick when a sin pops on you with a sparked stealth. And even if you survive and manage to pop expel or AD, all they do is pop back into stealth. Joy.

...the point of my post is that you should not be getting sparked from stealth. HOLD W MOAR. "but what if they wait for you to attack someone else so you can't move while they spark in stealth?" as above, any class can wait for you to engage with someone else, and any class can kill you very quickly in those circumstances if you're not prepared.

being able to stealth out of a fight is a nice benefit, i agree, but it doesn't make sins OP in the "kill everything" sense; a fight they have to stealth from is a fight effectively lost. it's little different from popping a pk potion long enough to run back to safe zone on any other class. just because they can occasionally elude death doesn't mean they can faceroll on the keyboard and kill anything as you seem to be claiming.

AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »

Also, who does control locks anymore? All they do is aps you to death.

that's an excellent way for sins to stalemate or lose against any decent player. at best against a decently refined player who has a clue what they're doing (see above), going the aps route is going to burn a little genie energy while you tank it, forcing them to stealth as soon as their initial stun ends - if, of course, they foolishly "don't do control locks any more" as you claim. at worst, it'll get them killed when their target Badges out of stun and control locks them long enough to knock off deaden nerves and go for a hiero bypass.

RioNHale - Archosaur

negativereaction wrote: »

i feel that if you think sins are the more OP of the two fish classes, you are mistaken.

i also feel that if you cannot preventatively counter being 2sparked from stealth, you need to hold the W key more, and that if you have a problem with non-r9 sins, you either need a better genie, better refines, or to fight someone decent at pretty much any other class (aside from like, WFs and maybe EPs) because other classes have the potential to be far more lethal.

seriously, this is a non-issue for me even when i spend most of my free time in pk hotspots.

not kidding myself, sins have two awesome things going for them: deaden nerves and the ability to get first control chain against anyone unable to see them with detection potions. the latter can be countered easily through genie skills, potions, or simply tanked; the former just takes 1-hit kills off the table, so you may need to set up a 2nd hiero bypass.

I thought Psys would beat sins at R9 endgame super refines too... then I saw this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btCHz6BXK2I

Sins still has too much of a massive damage index.
He didnt even need to stealth, and still won significant majority.