Foxform aggro seems very high

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Ok, I've commented on this in a few threads, but figure it needs its own thread.

Send herc in (herc has bash 5)
Go fox, Soul degeneration, amplify dmaage - then cycle between leech life and befuddling mist as they cool down, healing pet as needed.

And I can steal aggro from my herc. I'm using a -channel sword, and I'm arcane (vit arcane!) the only crit gear I've got on is the attedance ring. Not using any kind of bless box.

How the heck am I stealing all the time? Can any high level veno's comment on how common it is?

I was intending to use fox primarily to do decent damage but avoid stealing (which channel geared is embarrassingly easy to do now) but I guess that's out.


So yeah.
Is this usual?
Any advice on avoiding it? (other than attack less, which obviously works)

Edit:
I'm not even brambled, to try and avoid holding aggro. Maybe I ought to be, now? And I'd welcome some general advice from other foxform users - I've got 90 levels of caster-form under my belt and am only just starting to use fox a lot.

thumbs

Make sure bash is going off (wait a few secs after summoning before making it default). It's common though. Attack rate in FF is faster so better 1-1 dd typically. Also many mobs are very much more vulnerable to patk than matk like Icewind Grunts in VoS.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Veno's have masteries that (combined with decent attributes and gear) make them better physical damage dealers than herc in all cases except [?] mobs, and the only reason on that is because pets get no damage reduction. When I was in my 70s and 80s on my most recent veno I was stealing aggro from barbs without even attempting it in both fox and human. Same thing occurred on my veno at 90 when she restatted. Hell, she even stole with calamity axes when messing around. On single targets a melee LA or HA or HA/AA veno will do significantly more damage than an arcane caster, so it won't work trying to avoid stealing. You have to actually just watch your damage, and you'll get a feel for what it takes to steal off your herc.

Itori - Lost City

You still let your pet tank b:puzzled

It's very easy to steal aggro from your pet in fox when you have a faster attack rate and melee mastery(even on AA 120%/150%/200% is a lot)... most magic weapons have an attack rate of 1.25 while pets are only 0.60-.0.80(1.00 if nix) Also at higher levels your weapon will probably be more refined adding to your physical attack. Having brambles on makes it hard for a pet even with bash and flesh ream on it b:sweat

if I'm just grinding on single mobs and I run low on mana I bramble myself and go into fox... leech makes up most the hp so I dont usually pot. Triple spark for mana until nature's grace is out of cooldown..

pets just there to take 1-2 hits, howl and peirce.. too much trouble to let it hold aggro
b:shutup

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Yes, I still let my pet tank.

As I said: I'm arcane. Not HA/AA - Just plain old pure AA.

So if the pet doesn't tank, I usually have to run away. (Tanking brigand is a scary scary thing I just discovered I can do.)

So the conclusion is that this is normal?

Welll... great. Guess I have to restat HA. That way my magic damage will be gimped enough that I shouldn't steal in caster form, and I should be able to survive in fox form.

At least reset notes are on sale right now. I was looking forward to the archangel set bonus though.

Bellarie - Raging Tide

I'm LA veno, so I have much more strength than the garden variety Arcane veno. Yet I do not have this problem. Of course, I use a Gnome Saboteur most of the time, and he is a very good DD(He once stole aggro from a lvl 99 Herc against Ofotis when he was lvl 78)
But, I think a big part of it is channeling gear. I had no channeling gear at all for the longest time, and the only channeling I have currently is the -3% from Necklace of Legion. And of course, being LA build fully sharded with garnets, I have no trouble handling myself even when I do steal aggro, or when I am zhenning 5-8 mobs my lvl(I do this often with 12x on)
My advice is lower the amount of channeling bonuses you have and deal with the longer channeling of skills like amplify damage, if the aggro issue is too much for you.

Lorann - Raging Tide

I'm good old AA too with herc and I have to DD fairly hard if i want to steal aggro. And I mean starting up with ironwood>Lucky>venom>venom>ironwood etc etc to steal aggro. I don't recall ever stealing aggro in foxform although i don't spend too much time in FF seeing as I do a heck of a lot more damage in human... strange that you have this problem o.O

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Veno's have masteries that (combined with decent attributes and gear) make them better physical damage dealers than herc in all cases except [?] mobs, and the only reason on that is because pets get no damage reduction. When I was in my 70s and 80s on my most recent veno I was stealing aggro from barbs without even attempting it in both fox and human. Same thing occurred on my veno at 90 when she restatted. Hell, she even stole with calamity axes when messing around. On single targets a melee LA or HA or HA/AA veno will do significantly more damage than an arcane caster, so it won't work trying to avoid stealing. You have to actually just watch your damage, and you'll get a feel for what it takes to steal off your herc.

I'm really really sorry and I don't mean to offend but what kind of barbs are you squading with? If a barb is tanking, and I mean tanking properly it's not a straight forward task to steal aggro from them that could happen from just messing around...

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

I'm surprised you'd expect channel to matter much for the foxform skills - apart from amp they all have very short channel already.

And yes, I agree that herc aggro is pretty crappy. My 6x magmite was happily stealing from 9x hercs because it could use 3 aggro skills where the herc only uses one.

But that's why I switched to mainly fox - to try and avoid the maassive amount of aggro spamming spells faster than they can cycle generates.

Ah well. It just surprised the heck out of me.

Nine_Lives - Raging Tide

i also did not think of stealing aggro in my entire pwi veno career but it just happened in my last BH against Polearm. We got a level 100 R8 archer with Deicide 2 immac garnets +3 tanking him with a level 88 sin as support and my level 76 magmite. I was there for amp and befuddle for debuffs in foxform and i turn to human for ironwood as i kite while the debuffs cool down.

I got whacked bigtime by Pole after the debuff and befuddle. I thought it caught the full force of an AOE but the tanker told me after the bh that I stole aggro while I was on foxform. Pole whacked me on the head point blank.

And the archer and sin is still wondering how that happened as much as I am...my amp is level 8 and my befuddling mist is level 4 only. I don't have channeling gear as of yet.

b:shocked I don't know if I'll be flattered or headdesk myself for what happened

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

I'm now wondering if befuddling mist has the same "Almost always Insta steal a single whackback" that barb fleshream has. It's not stated, but should be easy enough to test.

Would make the skill a lot less useful, if so, since its main point is to make it LESS likely to get hit.

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm now wondering if befuddling mist has the same "Almost always Insta steal a single whackback" that barb fleshream has. It's not stated, but should be easy enough to test.

Would make the skill a lot less useful, if so, since its main point is to make it LESS likely to get hit.

i've never had befuddling steal aggro in that manner, myself. granted i've never used it on pole --- i'm not tough enough to go toe-to-toe with pole yet --- but on the many open map mobs and handful of bosses i've thrown it on, it's never been the thing to take aggro if anything did.

i forget what level my befuddling is, but i'm pretty darn sure it's at least 4. as well, my melee mastery is level 10.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Ineedy, it's not an instasteal. It just has surprisingly high aggro, I guess.

Which does kinda make me wonder what all the barbs are complaining about, if even we can steal from high geared archers.