How does Sage Barb pull cata better?

Burnout - Harshlands

So I've been looking at all of the skills sage and tiger barbs have that relate to pulling catas, and the only major advantage sage has over demon is 40% hp in true form and 120% p. def. Since tiger form hp is based off base unbuffed hp, most sage barbs will only have around 1500 more hp than a demon tiger. That's like a hit from a TT80 magic weapon.

Barbs don't need more p. def either since most TW defense squads are mage/psy/etc.

Looking at every single other skill, demon barbs have it better. 35% more crit rate, auto-crit on sunder, 50% more chi on inspiration (although these help make pk easier, not cata pulling).

50% more chi gain from demon = more chi to Invoke sooner. Demon Bestial Wraith also grants you chi faster. Possibly giving you enough chi for a critical violent triumph/Invoke. Both of which help you pull cata more effectively and matters more than 1500 extra hp when you already have 30k+.

Demon roar allows you to counter the APS melee chars while on their crystal a lot better than an extra 40% p. def from sage will, while sage roar is useless because anyone who does magic damage won't be anywhere close to 12 meters from you.

So basically all I am seeing from sage that helps you pull cata better is an extra 1500 hp (or an extra hit from a TT80 magic weapon). I've never played barb though, so can anyone explain to me why sage is considered "better" for pulling cata when it only has that one advantage?

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

sages get higher pdef from sage shape shift (as you said) which makes a lot of difference when purged and debuffed. Its basically the equivalent of level 10 shapeshift + level 10 vanguard spirit, whereas the demon version is lower.

personally.. a true catapuller is meant to absorb damage - not deal it, so the crits gained in tiger form from demon shapeshift are mostly useless if you build for max HP possible (thus sacrificing a ton of str/dex).

If youre using demon BKI to gain chi while catapulling - youre doing it wrong. You have to stand up to buff for chi, this leaves you with less defenses. Barbs have bestial rage to gain chi while being attacked (and also to reduce magical damage taken if used when hp drops below 50%) The sage version of that skill lasts longer and reduces more magic damage taken than the demon version does.

Yes demon roar helps when the apsers are attacking you while you are on the crystal.. but you cant use it if you are stun locked, and you shouldnt *have* to use it if your faction is helping to keep you alive by fighting off your assailants.


That's IMO

Dagnatic - Sanctuary

It realy comes downs to the Higher HP, Faster Running, High P.Def. Im almost positive, you wont find many Aps Players in TW, you just wont, they cant survive, Sins go Sage if they want to TW, well, most do... Plus, the 1v1 is almost non existent in TW, It comes down to who can AoE best, and a 5aps BM, with fists... cant AoE much, and probably doesn't have the HP to survive much either.

I personally am going to be a Demon Cata Puller... But, Depending on your gear and refines and such, Sages does have Higher HP.

Im not exactly sure why Sage is Better, but they do have a slightly better survive-ability. so i guess it'd come down to that.

Burnout - Harshlands

Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

sages get higher pdef from sage shape shift (as you said) which makes a lot of difference when purged and debuffed. Its basically the equivalent of level 10 shapeshift + level 10 vanguard spirit, whereas the demon version is lower.

personally.. a true catapuller is meant to absorb damage - not deal it, so the crits gained in tiger form from demon shapeshift are mostly useless if you build for max HP possible (thus sacrificing a ton of str/dex).

If youre using demon BKI to gain chi while catapulling - youre doing it wrong. You have to stand up to buff for chi, this leaves you with less defenses. Barbs have bestial rage to gain chi while being attacked (and also to reduce magical damage taken if used when hp drops below 50%) The sage version of that skill lasts longer and reduces more magic damage taken than the demon version does.

Yes demon roar helps when the apsers are attacking you while you are on the crystal.. but you cant use it if you are stun locked, and you shouldnt *have* to use it if your faction is helping to keep you alive by fighting off your assailants.


That's IMO

I thought of another advantage for sages, Sage spark gives 25% damage reduction. However, how often to barbs tend to use this while catapulling? Since Invoke is cheaper and reduces damage by 90%...but it's on a 60 s cooldown. Do you guys have the chi reserves to triple spark while on their crystal w/ bestial rage? It also doesn't stack with cleric BB, and if your cleric isn't bb'ing he's probably dead or no one is defending...

Also as far as I know bestial rage provides the same 4000 magic damage shield whether sage or demon, is the skill description wrong?

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

Also as far as I know bestial rage provides the same 4000 magic damage shield whether sage or demon, is the skill description wrong?

i guess i may have looked at that part wrong in the past, but ecatomb says they are the same amount of magical damage reduction.

its certainly possible for a barb that is getting attacked by a lot of people to gain 3 sparks while both sunder and invoke are on cool down, if they felt the need to use it as a last resort type thing if there was no other defensive maneuver available (solid shield on c/d, invoke on c/d, sunder on c/d, frighten on c/d, apoth on c/d etc..)