APS is apparently taking over BH too lol.

Daedallus - Sanctuary · June 2011

ILubby - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hmmmm, not really, I think you just happened to have bad luck. Although I've seen a WC lately " APS barb LF BH59 " lol and squads looking for aps for TT2-2 >_>; the ideology of wanting aps for runs other than nirvana exists but I don't think it has become a phenomenon. Maybe a server difference..?

Aps Barb on his 70's???

I'd love to see him tanking Pole in his 80's b:chuckle

Gweniivere - Dreamweaver · June 2011

Actually not so much on DW, but you'd occasionally see such a WC every once in a while. When it happens, it just gets me annoyed, but ah well. I think it was a "thing" few months back though, then they realized sins/bms lower than 99/100 pretty ineffective as tanks.

RosangeIa - Heavens Tear · June 2011

Could be. I've only seen it a few times, one I was invited and promptly kicked from party and replaced by a sin lol. And there was already a sin in the squad, so the excuse of "Need Bloodpaint Plz" wasn't a possibility. 9_9 Blacklisted the **** who set up the party, as I refuse to squad with morons anyway.

I have the choice to solo my BH with my veno, which I do occasionally. But honestly, I would rather not since I like the squad dynamic even for something as simple as BH. I spent months solo running TT3-1 3-2 (and other TT) on my veno before it was changed, and I have absolutely no desire to do something equally as boring any more than I have to lol.

So it's just annoying that people are so rude sometimes but what can you do? I got really lucky with some nice folks this morning who did free wine and free drops set at random, so for every bad experience there's always something good.

Daedallus - Sanctuary · June 2011

Ssapintrayas - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ye, that "WCing for hours to save time" concept still isnt quite clear to me....b:chuckle

Also my BMlv 44 got random whispered how i could be so silly to wear a sucky Xeno's Sledgehammer (+2 with 2x flawless garnet shard inside btw...costed me like 300k thanks to my friends )

HOW DARED YOU b:angryb:angryb:angry

Annalyse - Heavens Tear · June 2011

Everything is about speed these days, people want to rush rush rush. It is not about having fun, it is about getting it done. In the random BH squads I manage to get in with my veno, I often wish I hadn't... people rush to the point of ditching the cleric, and then die. They rush to the point of killing a boss before everyone is onscreen so that someone doesn't get BH. They don't even allow me to pull bosses anymore; oh no, genie pull is so much faster, even if they do drag back three or so adds. And much of the time, if I don't go with my faction, I have a hard time finding runs for the same reason. I remember one world chat looking for "cleric +1," I pmed four times during which they posted the world chat a second time. But apparently a veno was not considered a +1.

I find this all sad. I enjoy playing the game, and these instances are part of it. I do not run with random Nirvana squads, only faction which has some APS but not entire, and it is far more fun (I think) taking a few extra minutes to actually play than to speed your way through practically ignoring everything in the instance. If I were to world chat for more people for Nirvana I would ask for wiz or psy or something and deny APS users lol. And when I make BH squads, I make sure I have a healer and someone who can tank, and then I just invite from each PM as I get it, in order.

I find it even more sad that I am now seeing world chats for things like full RB Delta and people are being asked to link their weapons. I would never join a squad like that either.

Quilue - Sanctuary · June 2011

^

it's not even about speed...it's just people being really stupid...Most BH instances you spend more time running than killing, so IDK what people are thinking these days. Hurr durr sin for 79...

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide · June 2011

Sins have windpush b:avoid

Empu - Sanctuary · June 2011

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

^

it's not even about speed...it's just people being really stupid...Most BH instances you spend more time running than killing, so IDK what people are thinking these days. Hurr durr sin for 79...

b:chuckle Don't you know how great permaspark is on bosses that die in 15 sec anyway.

Tynne - Lost City wrote: »

they disregard aps on a sin is if they are 89+ sage with lvl11bp/rib

This is not true at all actually. 90% of the demon sins will over-bp you every 2min for 10 chi and 90% of the bms have deicides or archer (not to mention vana bosses are immune). Sage sins are judged on aps like demon sins... As a sage sin with r9 daggers and the 2 sage skills you mentioned, I get refused on aps criteria. But with my -30% req lvl93 fists I can join any squad I want.

Thank god that is only wc squads b:chuckle But unfortunately wc squads create idiots. When I last helped out on bh69 I killed bosses so fast they thought I was lying when I said I have an aps of 2.86... "you killed it so fast, you are 5 aps!" b:laugh

babybutthurt · June 2011

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

actually, i'm still trying to figure out what patakas ARE good for... the rank 8/9 ones are pretty good just because they've got

such insanely high stats, but that's true for any rank 8/9 weapon.

Pataka has higher phys damage than other mag weps for fox form.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · June 2011

I have a screenshot of some moron who requested damage dealers for BH79 and specifically excluded archers (other non-archer damage dealers were welcome). Maybe that person was afraid of the XP loss on the bosses from Archer STA or something.

Yuniryu - Raging Tide · June 2011

Oh well 5aps, let them do what they want.

. The fact i went seeker was i wanted to have fun and not having to be 5aps to farming at nivana. Dont get me wrong i want to do and will be willing to try xD if i get to 100, but i wont get my hopes up.

There are plenty of other things to experience

.

Maybe one day 5aps will get boring, nothing last forever, all good things come to the end ;p.

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear · June 2011

Well sins and APS themselves are not the problem... It's the ppl that are playing and are making these ridiculous rules about it... Seriously this game was designed so you could do endgame instances even with just NPC armor... But that would take some effort to do and ppl these days rather call themselves pro when they have aps and do nothing more then spark + auto attack... Idiots if you ask me...

I have a sin (team playing build) wich has a lot of skills that work awesome while playing in a team... Yet I refuse to spens all my efforts and coin in something stupid like aps (hp recovery and debuff removal chance on daggers is way more yum annyway)... And you don't see me take agro and die in 4 seconds after that... If ppl don't like it then fine... I'll go with my mom and friends since even though they hate sins they love to have mine along...

Same goes for my archer... I made her cause I want to use bows and ranged weaps... You know the kind of weapons where skills are made for... So over my dead body that I'll be turning her into some fist-fighting aps freak...

Well what I actualy wanna say is that if you're on the same server I am your more then welcome in my squads no matter what class or aps you are... I still belive in the tank+healer+DD way... If your on another server I'm pretty sure there will also be kind ppl ike that... It's still harder but it's worth it in the end... Cause you'll most likely will also make some realy good friends that way... So just ignore those idiots... Their loss... b:victory

Traz - Dreamweaver · June 2011

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have a screenshot of some moron who requested damage dealers for BH79 and specifically excluded archers (other non-archer damage dealers were welcome). Maybe that person was afraid of the XP loss on the bosses from Archer STA or something.

He hypers his BHs? b:shocked

Retsuko - Heavens Tear · June 2011

It's better to avoid these random squads especially if they are asking for aps only. There is too much fail running around. A lot of FF noobs who put all their money into getting their aps. But nothing spend to refine their weapon or increase their survivability.

I love how i can do everything with my guild, no matter which class i am

Ssapintrayas - Dreamweaver · June 2011

But Patakas only haz att speed of 1.0 while all other magic weapons haz att speed of 1.25.
On my HA Veno i felt that this 0.25 more att speed totaly cut it out.b:avoid

Besides that, high damage gap on weapons sucks like hell cos im usually hitting for min dmg QQ.

Poor friend of mine decidet for sage archer. Whenever she speaks it out loud there are flames incomeing cos "sage archer cant do 5 aps!".

Blaydewind - Raging Tide · June 2011

I noticed this type of squad preference when I was in FC on my seeker. It got to the point where some of my sin "friends" preferred me over a barb. Squad setup looked like this almost all the time at 90+: me (seeker), cleric, bm, sin, sin, sin.

I'd always see mystics, psys, wizards, archers, venos in snowy, constantly trying for a group. I even had a friend who was a psy, who lost hope in trying to get to 89 because of this exclusion. Sometimes, it's funny when these same sins need AoE DDs (besides a seeker) badly for delta and there's no one around. Well, no one helped the AoE DDs level, did they? b:shocked

I don't have anything against people preferring high APS, but when you're in a situation where you can't find any other high APS or don't necessarily need it for a run, you shouldn't spend hours sitting there spamming WC for high APS. As many have said before, it's not the high APS that's the problem, it's how some of the population has become dependent and controlled by it.

My advice for those that can't get into their BHs below 10x is to start your own squad, maybe with some friends. I have done and currently do that when the groups on WC get ridiculous, taking in any DD if the BH allows for it (delta rainbow squad is one such exception).

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary · June 2011

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:chuckle Don't you know how great permaspark is on bosses that die in 15 sec anyway.

This is not true at all actually. 90% of the demon sins will over-bp you every 2min for 10 chi and 90% of the bms have deicides or archer (not to mention vana bosses are immune). Sage sins are judged on aps like demon sins... As a sage sin with r9 daggers and the 2 sage skills you mentioned, I get refused on aps criteria. But with my -30% req lvl93 fists I can join any squad I want.

Thank god that is only wc squads b:chuckle But unfortunately wc squads create idiots. When I last helped out on bh69 I killed bosses so fast they thought I was lying when I said I have an aps of 2.86... "you killed it so fast, you are 5 aps!" b:laugh

b:chuckle I remember you also told me about this issue that moronic demon sins over buff your sage BP, at least I wasn`t 1 of them :P

_blood_rain - Sanctuary · June 2011

In my own experience, most of the people who call out for say, only sins or BMs on most instances dont understand the game/ are idiots/ both.

APS DD call outs in general are a less idiotic,

APS DD call outs on low bhs are just..... dont even get me started x.x I have even been rejected from low Fbs for nonsense like this.

What makes me laugh is when people call for only sins/BMs on vana squads. Do they not know that Claw barbs can outdamage claw BMs?

ZAPATON - Sanctuary · June 2011

Just give it a couple months, when they release full low lvl sets of gear with -interval on the cash shop (through packs, most likely). Then world chat will be filled with "Looking for 5aps sin for BH29/Phoenix valley 30-44, pm for invite!"

lizrau · June 2011

Lol, that would be funny^

RosangeIa - Heavens Tear · June 2011

Yeah I'm very thankful to have found a family-oriented faction of really skilled players to play FF and other instances with. Pair of the nicest sins I've met in a long time, as well as a very nice cleric. We normally don't have to find randoms for other spots in FF either since they have good friends who usually run with us too. Our faction is tiny but I like it that way. I've had too much of big factions over the years that it just is too stressful sometimes. Although they can be great for getting help on certain things but, even that doesn't always happen lol.

I miss when the playerbase was more concerned with actually playing the game rather than rushing through everything. I too have noticed people killing BH bosses before everyone is there, not giving a sht if some are getting attacked and might need help, etc. But most of the time, thankfully it isn't the case. Some of our community is so driven by having the best of everything right now and if you don't meet the criteria you're out! it's quite sad really.

I do feel sorry for people who play these classes that are now expected to have 5 aps. Part of the reason I quit my Sin was because I like playing my way. lol.. but I didn't want to deal with not getting squads because idiots believe you're no good if you don't have 5 aps. >_> It would be like expecting every caster to have -80% channeling or something insane like that lol (I don't know if that's actually possible... just throwing around numbers).

I mean what ever happened to Wizards and traditional Archers? I gotta admit I don't see either of them running FF as much these days. Venos too sometimes. Feels like 80% of the players are Assassins lol.

Chickpea - Lost City · June 2011

I never seen anyone asking for APS players for BH79, not 89 either but im sure it happens since people are idiots. Running a BH takes forever because you need to:

1. Find a healer and someone that can tank

2. Fill the party

3. Argue who is making wine

4. Getting coins from everyone

5. Waiting until everyone gets inside the instance and gather up for buffs (this part usually takes longer than the entire BH)

6. Running between the bosses

Even if you can find several 2.86 - 3.33 APS Demon Sins and BMs to fill your BH79/89 party it will not be much faster. Its way better with players who can spam Holy Path and teleports straight inside - if you wanna finish fast.

ReMakaBo - Archosaur · June 2011

Chickpea - Lost City wrote: »

I never seen anyone asking for APS players for BH79, not 89 either but im sure it happens since people are idiots. Running a BH takes forever because you need to:

1. Find a healer and someone that can tank

2. Fill the party

3. Argue who is making wine

4. Getting coins from everyone

5. Waiting until everyone gets inside the instance and gather up for buffs (this part usually takes longer than the entire BH)
6. Running between the bosses

Even if you can find several 2.86 - 3.33 APS Demon Sins and BMs to fill your BH79/89 party it will not be much faster. Its way better with players who can spam Holy Path and teleports straight inside - if you wanna finish fast.

There is ALWAYS that one, that needs to fly to the zone. Would'nt it be a real knee slapper, if it was the high aps player that chose to fly there? b:laugh

RosangeIa - Heavens Tear · June 2011

ReMakaBo - Archosaur wrote: »

There is ALWAYS that one, that needs to fly to the zone. Would'nt it be a real knee slapper, if it was the high aps player that chose to fly there? b:laugh

Oh snap! Lol!

Masuna - Harshlands · June 2011

<<<5aps archer that always gets dissed about my damage from people who do less damage lol

Today i ran a nirvana and a BM came on squad and said "a barb?" then he dropped squad right away. it turns out this barb, (a friend of mine) used devour, strength of the titans and HP buff, helped out the squad, ran boxes at end and we finished in 20 mins. This barb then whispered the BM that left and told him "we got 7 cannys and a rap from the run" the BM said "ok invite me for the next run" and the barb said "ah... no" b:pleased

This aps craze has gotten way out of hand, I literally can't PAY my faction to help get my barb a 99 key quest done. All the RL coin and major time spent to get aps to be able to get squads on my archer seems like a waste of time and money now. But hey at least archers are still wanted for TW b:surrender

Lythianaa - Dreamweaver · June 2011

I know a solution!

Just advertise yourself this way: "5APS CASTER LF BH SQUAD!!"

Watch someone actually invite you because you said aps, and then realize you're a caster b:chuckle

ZAPATON - Sanctuary · June 2011

Lythianaa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I know a solution!

Just advertise yourself this way: "5APS CASTER LF BH SQUAD!!"

Watch someone actually invite you because you said aps, and then realize you're a caster b:chuckle

b:thanks I'll go try that right away! b:thanks

BooMie - Lost City · June 2011

It's kind of depressing, honestly.
A bunch of kids who don't know how to play pay their way to the top and worry about nothing but APS. I have worked my way up and learned how to play that way. It's something a lot of these sins are messing up on.
I think it's up to the barbs to play and play well. I'm even more hyped up to be a barb after I prove people wrong.
My favourite is when sins try and tell me to let them tank.
I just let them die and finish the boss for the rest of us. b:chuckle

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear · June 2011

RosangeIa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah I'm very thankful to have found a family-oriented faction of really skilled players to play FF and other instances with. Pair of the nicest sins I've met in a long time, as well as a very nice cleric. We normally don't have to find randoms for other spots in FF either since they have good friends who usually run with us too. Our faction is tiny but I like it that way. I've had too much of big factions over the years that it just is too stressful sometimes. Although they can be great for getting help on certain things but, even that doesn't always happen lol.

I miss when the playerbase was more concerned with actually playing the game rather than rushing through everything. I too have noticed people killing BH bosses before everyone is there, not giving a sht if some are getting attacked and might need help, etc. But most of the time, thankfully it isn't the case. Some of our community is so driven by having the best of everything right now and if you don't meet the criteria you're out! it's quite sad really.

I do feel sorry for people who play these classes that are now expected to have 5 aps. Part of the reason I quit my Sin was because I like playing my way. lol.. but I didn't want to deal with not getting squads because idiots believe you're no good if you don't have 5 aps. >_> It would be like expecting every caster to have -80% channeling or something insane like that lol (I don't know if that's actually possible... just throwing around numbers).

I mean what ever happened to Wizards and traditional Archers? I gotta admit I don't see either of them running FF as much these days. Venos too sometimes. Feels like 80% of the players are Assassins lol.

Unfortunately most of the wizards I've come across in FF of late either use DB too soon to get themselves killed often and/or don't heal the cleric on Shocktrooper, and 90%+ of archers don't know a rule of thumb is not to STA on bosses, or as a first hit AOE (TB then STA on AOE's or simply barrage).

I don't miss either sadly.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide · June 2011

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Unfortunately most of the wizards I've come across in FF of late either use DB too soon and/or don't heal the cleric on Shocktrooper, and 90%+ of archers don't know a rule of thumb is not to STA on bosses, or as a first hit AOE (TB then STA on AOE's or simply barrage).

I don't miss either sadly.

Is that to have more xp? Because STA -> TB does make sense otherwise...

APS is apparently taking over BH too lol.

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