Another Sage/Demon Thread

Fin - Dreamweaver · June 2011

Hey,
i noticed a lot of ppl saying that a sage archer with lot of cs is better as demon. That was my first thought too, but is it true?
I'm not yet at the aps lvl range just started using fists from time to time. (2.5 sparked atm)

in PVE Endgame most Archers use Fists to get as close to 5APS as possible. Let's say both got 5APS sparked. (i don't care if it's more expensive for sage coins stay in bank i just want some simple math here

)
and is there a difference in gear? probably the same -int gear with the same bow in PVP/TW and same fists in PvE?

Examples (all sparked and same gear for demon and sage):
Sage Fists: http://pwcalc.com/0a75f129428beb12
Demon Fists: http://pwcalc.com/f82a1ec590548f5c

Sage Bow: http://pwcalc.com/24873bae51943b7a
Demon Bow: http://pwcalc.com/8b706b005da77eee

R9 (i don't have a clue about R9 just to try how it looks with extrem gear)
Sage: http://pwcalc.com/daf0a9d5c491d9ad
Demon: http://pwcalc.com/f63612d517d9a83f

By looking at those numbers i'd say sage = demon. The 1k more base Dmg of sage dosn't seem to be that important. And maybe demon is even better thx to more aps sparked

PvE
Sage Archer
+ more def sparked

Demon Archer
- no def bonus from spark
+ higher dmg (demon blazing arrow)
+ dmg even higher if you cast demon Stunning arrow or STA

My Conclusion
If you tank bosses sage > demon.
in all other cases demon > sage for the first 20 seconds (till +Crit and +Fire dmg runs out) i don't know how long the average kill takes with a aps squad in Nirvana or whatever you high lvl ppl do. Over long time Sage wins because of slightly higher Blazing Arrow dmg after the first 20 sec.
But i really like what blazing arrow does to my fist dmg with demon spark. I guess with the crit boost from other skills it's a nice combo for Demon. And an Archer isn't tanking most of the time(or are we?).

PvP
I asume you use Bows for PvP (HS/rank8/nirvana/rank9) doesn't matter if demon or sage?

Sage Archer
+ more def sparked
+ higher base dmg
- less aps

Demon Archer
+ aps bonus from spark kicks in
+ aps bonus from QS
+ Blazing arrow dmg bonus (probably not enough to make up the higher dmg from sage bow mastery)
+ Way more crits thx to Demon
(+ better bonuse from Wings of Protection, i don't know if it makes a difference)
+ lightning strike will never miss
+ and of course the faster demon BoA (if you're lucky enough to keep it up for a bit)

My PVP Conclusion
Demon Archer seems to be a lot better, did i miss something? And does demon spark +ats stack with QS +ats? but if not you'll still have a higher aps with demon. Even more if both Sage and Demon archer have 5 aps unsparked with fists. My favourite combo seems to be hard to beat for a Sage archer (Blazing Arrow + Crit skill + Demon Spark/QS)

Fleuri - Sanctuary · June 2011

Fin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hey,
i noticed a lot of ppl saying that a sage archer with lot of cs is better as demon. That
was my first thought too, but is it true?

That is only partially true, in my opinion, and misleading also.

Fin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

in PVE Endgame most Archers use Fists to get as close to 5APS as possible. Let's say both got 5APS sparked. (i don't care if it's more expensive for sage coins stay in bank i just want some simple math here )
and is there a difference in gear? probably the same -int gear with the same bow in PVP/TW and same fists in PvE?

Demon does not need all the -interval sage does to achieve 5aps with fists. But that should be obvious.

Fin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

By looking at those numbers i'd say sage = demon. The 1k more base Dmg of sage dosn't seem to be that important. And maybe demon is even better thx to more aps sparked

if the extra damage does not matter for you, so be it.

Fin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My Conclusion
If you tank bosses sage > demon.
in all other cases demon > sage for the first 20 seconds (till +Crit and +Fire dmg runs out) i don't know how long the average kill takes with a aps squad in Nirvana or whatever you high lvl ppl do. Over long time Sage wins because of slightly higher Blazing Arrow dmg after the first 20 sec.
But i really like what blazing arrow does to my fist dmg with demon spark. I guess with the crit boost from other skills it's a nice combo for Demon. And an Archer isn't tanking most of the time(or are we?).

Demon short term buffs are better for charm busting, especially when you have marginal damage, or when you are defending and have opportunity to prepare yourself and chasing someone off for a few seconds is good.

However, demon has some delays before they can deliver their superior damage, and sages can do things with that time (and so can other people).

Anyways, in my experience, fighting another sage is a very different experience than fighting a demon archer. Demons like to quickshot me, sages like to stun me.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary · June 2011

what exactly is the point or argument of this thread

Fin - Dreamweaver · June 2011

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

what exactly is the point or argument of this thread

Sry for my englisch. It's not my mother language and i'm not used to write in it. I hope you can understand my thoughts anyway:

Same as every other sage demon thread i want to figure out which one is better. I've red a many of the old threads. But since then game balance has changed a lot (endgame gear is easy to get thx to packs and lots of cash).
If i got i right, in the past ppl have chosen Demon mostly for more atackspeed and higher crit rates. And all the -int gear could have changed that. And as i've written before many ppl told me that Sage Archer > Demo Archer with lot's of cash. Just think back a year and you'd have laughed at somebody saying that.

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

Demons like to quickshot me, sages like to stun me.

Not sure why demons don't use Stun / QS Combo. The 10% More crit from demon Stun seem to give a nice bonus to the faster atk speed from QS.

Ok back to math, i've done some more this morning.

the pwcalc ends up with full r9 +12 (if that is even possible) and sparked.
(i use R9 here bacause i think the higher base dmg of sage should have the biggest effect with the best gear)

Base Dmg Sage:    15994 - 26275 (average: 21134)
Atk Speed Sage:    1.05
Base Dmg Demon: 15755 - 25882 (average: 20818)
Atk Speed Demon: 1.43

// That should calculate dmg dealt after s seconds
Dmg(s) = (Average Base Demage * Atk Speed) * (s)

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

if the extra damage does not matter for you, so be it.

I may have compared wrong numbers last night ( it was late ).

And if you compare Sage to Demon, both have linear increasing Dmg but Demon has a way higher slope (Slope is Dmg/Sec) so no matter what you do wihtout skill use Demon will do 7580 Dmg more per Second!

Next point is the additional Crit Dmg. Demon gets 2% more. Not sure how to include that in my equation. I'll add another multiplication 1 + ( Crit Rate / 100)

Dmg(s) = ( Average Base Demage * Atk Speed * ( 1 + ( Crit Rate / 100))) * (s)
           = DPS * s
SageDmg(s) = (21134 * 1.05 * 1.32) * s = 29292 * s
DemDmg(s) = (20818 * 1.43 * 1.34) * s = 39891 *s

Demon gets even more supirior with crits and more aps. 10k higher average Dmg pers second

And if QS speed bonus stacks with Demon spark speed bonus and you add 10% Critical you get from skills Demon will leave Sage way behind no matter how much cash you invest in the game.

Warning highly theoretical Content, this probably won't work ingame

Dmg(s) = ( Average Base Demage * Atk Speed * ( 1 + ( Crit Rate / 100))) * (s)
           = DPS * s
SageDmg(s) = (21134 * 1.05 * 1.32) * s = 29292 * s
DemDmg(s) = (20818 * 1.86 * 1.34) * s = 51886 *s  // new aps is (1.43 * 1.3)

that would be 20k more Dmg per second. 15s spark would give Demon 300k more dmg. With delays between spark and skills it's going to be ~200k seems to be a lot anyway.

And back in reality when QS doesn't stack with Demon Spark, demon will still have 10k dmg/s more. And keep in mind that the higher atk lvl and everything else that increases Dmg (buffs, debuffs) will make the difference even bigger. Fully buffed and debuffed you can get to 20k difference without problems. ( or highly speculative 600k in 15 seconds b:dirty sounds too awsome to be true )

Did i miss something or are the ppl saying sage is better when you spend a lot of cash just stupid?
And i have to admit it may be true in PvE thx to the def you get from Sage Spark and you don't use blazing arrow + crit skills alot. But even then demon can still use better dmg equi because you don't need all the -int for 5aps as demon.

imo Sage sucks b:surrender

Aldryami - Sanctuary · June 2011

Demon Blazing arrow does not provide more damage than sage Blazing Arrow. It's the other way round. The demon Blazing Arrow spike damage is very short term, which means you need to constantly rebuff which you will rarely do in the middle of PvP situations and never ever ever while you are using fists or claws, unless you like sparking less often against bosses....

I have played both demon and sage archers. The extra damage Sages get from Blazing Arrow and Bow Mastery >seems< experientially to be pretty substantial. However I have not yet played my sage in PVP situations (other than TW) so have not yet got a >feel< for which is more effective.

There is no doubt about it that Demon rocks for many reasons (Quickshot, Group Buff, etc) but Blazing Arrow is not one of the reasons.

Fin - Dreamweaver · June 2011

Aldryami - Sanctuary wrote: »

Demon Blazing arrow does not provide more damage than sage Blazing Arrow. It's the other way round. The demon Blazing Arrow spike damage is very short term, which means you need to constantly rebuff which you will rarely do in the middle of PvP situations and never ever ever while you are using fists or claws, unless you like sparking less often against bosses....

I agree with the Fist claw stuff you can only throw it in ones before you start sparking. that's why i asked how long it takes to kill a boss. this first 20 secs with 120% fire dmg could be better if the boss dies fast enough.
I've never done nirvana but i hear ppl do it in under 10 minutes and some of it has to be walking so i guess killing bosses is FAST when you look at high-end gear.

And in pvp it depends on the situation. if you see the other guy coming you may have enough time to cast blazing arrow 120% fire dmg is really good. Even better when you're the other guy and hit an unprepared target.

With my not yet perma sparked archer i use blazing arrow before every spark just to get the most out of it. (getting sta soon and i'll use blazing, sta, demon spark)
fist/claws can't outdmg my FC bow atm. that may change with 99 when i get more aps. but i don't know what will happen at 100 with r8 bow... need to do the math. fists probably win

And i didn't use Blazing arrow for the dmg calculation but 10% more fire dmg doesn't make up for crit and less atk speed.
Only thing i like more at a sage is the constant dmg, as demon you'll need a bit luck too

Fleuri - Sanctuary · June 2011

I am not certain here.

On the one hand, i think you might be trying to talk yourself into going demon. If so, I think you should go demon! It's a great choice.

On the other hand, though, I think you are trying to talk about math and stuff. If so, I think you should not be ignoring time issues when thinking of dps. You need almost four seconds to cast blazing arrow, and in situations where the sage can be attacking during those four seconds? I think for a valid comparison you should consider those cases -- and graph things out so you can see which kinds of battles favor the demon and which favor the sage. And if you have certain battles in mind? and certain behaviors from your squad? That will make things simpler for you.

Fin - Dreamweaver · June 2011

well small fast math because i'm sleepy and i should go to bed

10 base dmg for both

with blazing arrow: Sage 16 Demon 15 (but first 20 seconds 22)
cast+channel of blazing arrow ~ 4 sec that gives sage time do deal 320dmg
after that follow 15 sparked seconds.
sage: 15*5*16 =1200 demon: 15*5*22 = ~1650 (not sure too tired to do good math)

sage: 1200 + 320 = 1520
demon: 1650 (without blazing arrow -> 19*15 = i don't know but less then 19*16 and must be worse then sage)

in your face aps noobs who don't cast blazing arrow before sparking

(may be wrong because blazing arrow only ads a % of weap dmg not base dmg, so it probably works like base dmg + % of weapon dmg) anyone knows how it works exactly... i'd like to know. i may try to figure it out tomorrow
in my face you aps pros...

going to sleep... b:surrender

lizrau · June 2011

Demon.

That is all.

Fleuri - Sanctuary · June 2011

Some thoughts you might want to consider:

10 base damage can hide errors up to 10%

you have assumed full chi to start

demon lets you farm without all of your 5aps from gear (but this builds chi slower when you do not have 3 sparks)

you are comparing archers in a farming situation where assassins are better

you have picked a specific time duration where demon is superior, and you should consider making a graph

Fin - Dreamweaver · June 2011

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

Some thoughts you might want to consider:
you are comparing archers in a farming situation where assassins are better

b:surrender answer for every question on the forum... already got an sin up to 70 the last few weeks because using int gear with my archer seems to be a waste.

But i still love my Archer and my Endgame aim is to play archer, so i decided not to put 100$ to get my sin to rank8. with the same money i can get my archer all demon skills, lunar cape and probably TT99 Gold.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

4) Fire Damage = (minimum attack of bow + maximum attack of bow) / 2 * Blazing Arrow Percent
or
Fire Damage = Average Damage from WEAPON ONLY * Blazing Arrow Percent

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

10 base damage can hide errors up to 10%

i didn't choose 10 because it looks nice. with numbers like 0.6 0.5 and 1.2 added dmg. It's 100% accurate.

And PW wiki says:
Melee Weapons attack multiplier = 1 + STR/150 + weapon mastery + physical attack buffs
so we archers end up with about = 1 + 153/150 + 0 = ~2

But thx to Asterelle i know that i was wrong (as i expected).
Groenox have a Physical Attack of 511-565. That's an average 538.
Sage/Demon dmg from blazing arrow: 322.8/269(645.6)

DPH = 1398/1345(1721.6)
now i need to figure out if spark affects blazing arrows added dmg, probably not.

Aldryami - Sanctuary · June 2011

Fin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And in pvp it depends on the situation. if you see the other guy coming you may have enough time to cast blazing arrow 120% fire dmg is really good. Even better when you're the other guy and hit an unprepared target.

That sounds more like a duel or a very occasional situation. In the gank fests that are proper pvp, I hardly ever saw anyone use the demon buff. I certainly gave up on it.

If you "see the other guy coming" then, by heck, you should be stunning them and/or quickshotting them in the hope you get your 50% chance of attk speed increase. If you stop to fit in a buff then consider yourself stun-locked or phoenixed or sleeped or (etc)

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide · June 2011

Fin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

now i need to figure out if spark affects blazing arrows added dmg, probably not.

You're right, it doesn't. Testing it out on a physical immune boss proves it.

KedgeSniper - Lost City · June 2011

Its sad if you base your cultivation on "Fist". b:surrender

Fin - Dreamweaver · June 2011

it's sad the game makes us to b:surrender without all the aps i'd be a sage now.

Thx for testing Boogiepanda. Guess Blazing Arrow has close to no influence in dmg. Let's finish this...

Melee Weapons attack multiplier ~2
Groenox Physical Attack of average 538.
Sage/Demon dmg from blazing arrow: 322.8/269(645.6)

Done some testing and i'm pretty sure demon spark only gives 500% bonus not 700% as the descripton says b:angry

formula to calculate sparked dmg

( Average Weapon Dmg + Player lvl + Rings + Amo) * ( 1 + ( str points / 150) + weapon mastery) + ( Average Weapon Dmg + Player lvl + Rings + Amo) * 5

For a lv100 fist Archer with Groenox and no rings:
( 538 + 100) * ( 1 + ( 153 / 150) ) + ( 538 + 100) * 5 = 4478.76

With Blazing Arrow That's 
Sage: 4801 Demon: 4747/5124

Lost Dmg while casting Blazing arrow

4*5*4801=96000
4*5*4747=94940

How long does Blazing arrow has to last to make it better

Dmg difference to sage: 5124-4801= 323
Dmg difference to demon: 5124-4747= 377
Hits to make up for the lost 96k: 96000/323=297 ~ 60s
Hits to make up for the lost 96k: 94940/377=251 ~ 50s

Now it's offical recasting blazing isn't worth it b:cry

but good news for demon archers
Sage: 4801 Demon: 4747
the difference is only 54DPH or 270DPS

that would be 16200 dmg less in 1minute thats only 3 hits you have do do more then a sage. And it may be enough to keep the aggro at the sage aps guy with better def.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide · June 2011

However, if recasting blaze is the only way you can kill a charmed opponent, then needless to say why not try it.

Fleuri - Sanctuary · June 2011

If you are going to ignore rings, you are biasing the comparison in favor of demon (because demon temporary blazing bonus from weapon damage will be a proportionally large component of the total initial damage).

Also, if you are going to pick a specific battle length (15 seconds fully sparked with demon short term blazing buff active) you are ignoring other battle lengths where your comparison could be different. (And I think a graph of total damage vs. time could help you here, and I would draw two graphs: one graph for if you had 3 sparks and another graph for if you had none.)

On the other hand, sage archer is almost always worse than demon archer for fist/claw based farming when you do not have gear to get you to 5aps unsparked.

On the third hand, assassin based nirvana/TT farming gives you a higher raw income per hour invested than archer based nirvana/TT farming, but you have to divide that by 2 for any "cannot be put in account stash" expenses (experience, skills, rank gear, and so on) and anything where you do not want to deal with hitting the banker every time you sign on to that character (like, for example, if you pk and use safety lock).

Fin - Dreamweaver · June 2011

could someone stop this sin worshipping?... it gets annoying

i don't ignore battles under 15seconds i just calculated it's never usefull to cast it during a battle, because u could have dealt way more dmg in the 4seconds. It's different when you cast it before battle -> always usefull.
And as Boogiepanda said... if you can't kill something without try it with.

No sparks with highend aps gear? i guess you'll be close or over 100. And Skilldatabase shows me this little gem Archer:

Awaken 	Level 1   	
Mana 1000
Cast Instant
Requisite Cultivation Celestial Sage/Demon
Use all one's energy to recharge all Spark instantly.

so being sparked all time with fists shouldn't be a problem for sage and demon.

And do you use Fists in PvP? I'm not sure but i don't think i would... If you do pls give me some reasons why.

Allynna_ - Dreamweaver · June 2011

Few things about Awaken:

1) Needs level 100 Culti. Not that easy to get at all. Know some people that have taken monthes to get ONE step of that done.

2) Has an insane Cool down. I mean I think it's like 10-15 minutes. Heck, the sage Chi Technique will probably get you chi easier.

Fists for PvP is probably something like TW Cata barbs that where not brambled for some insane reason (use as Chi Posts?). I mean, if your an archer, and your RUNNING up to your enemies and poking them, thats kinda crazy (or maybe a Wiz that Shrunk into your face? IDK)

Fleuri - Sanctuary · June 2011

Allynna_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Few things about Awaken:

1) Needs level 100 Culti. Not that easy to get at all. Know some people that have taken monthes to get ONE step of that done.

2) Has an insane Cool down. I mean I think it's like 10-15 minutes. Heck, the sage Chi Technique will probably get you chi easier.

Fists for PvP is probably something like TW Cata barbs that where not brambled for some insane reason (use as Chi Posts?). I mean, if your an archer, and your RUNNING up to your enemies and poking them, thats kinda crazy (or maybe a Wiz that Shrunk into your face? IDK)

You are, unfortunately, so very right: awaken's cooldown takes 15 minutes.

b:sad

And awaken expensive to learn, if you are buying white tea for 25k each, you could buy 1600 white tea and have money left over from how much you will need to pay to learn awaken. Even ignoring your mana cost that's easily a year for its payback time (and perhaps a lot longer if you only use it occasionally), and if you are using your money to earn money awaken may take a very long time to cover its costs.

(And, by the way I had a cata barb suicide on me this last week -- he was practically begging me to use my claws on him, and I had almost no chi, so I obliged him. I do not recall ever having such a surreal experience in a TW before.)

Fin - Dreamweaver · June 2011

Allynna_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I mean, if your an archer, and your RUNNING up to your enemies and poking them, thats kinda crazy (or maybe a Wiz that Shrunk into your face? IDK)

That sounds like something stupid i do when i'm freakin bored! guess i'll try it soon. b:laugh Wiz could realy shrunk into my face to nerf my dmg but something tells me if a wiz shrunks in my face i'll just put on my stupid look and watch me die. And then think about why i didn't use winged pledge.

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

(And, by the way I had a cata barb suicide on me this last week -- he was practically begging me to use my claws on him, and I had almost no chi, so I obliged him. I do not recall ever having such a surreal experience in a TW before.)

This could change everything. b:shocked

Cooldown and a pain to get, that's about what i thought. Anyway awsome when you have it. Like a chi pot but better!
But in PvE it shouldn't be a problem to get 3 sparks before you start killing bosses. for killing mobs? don't think this discussion makes sense for killing single mobs, you can kill them fast without good gear.
But anyway i can get 3sparks rdy everytime i need them at lv92. probably at 99+ too.

for PvP i already done the math D-Archer do way more dmg because you won't reach the 5aps with bows -> Demon Spark/QS gives you more speed. BowMastery, Winged Blessing give you more Crit. And when you use Sage spark for it's def bonus it's probably dead anyway might help a bit against casters. i heard they can get a hughe pdef at endgame and become a real pain for archers, but for now i'd say thats a rumor O.o

And it's true that Rings and better arrows would favor Demon Blazing arrow more. Seems to be unlikly because they'd have to change the dmg a lot. but who knows tomorrow at 8am math lesson that's a nice time to calculate what dmg and arrows you need to make demon blazing arrow awsome. I'd love to see that recasting BA works and Demon beats sage everywhere b:laugh

And one more thing about coins per hour...
What is a high amount to get 3mil per hour?
than ad your hourly wage in this formula and tell me how much you earn by farming in game

3$ - *your hourly wage here*

If the nummber is bigger zero you should probably find another job. And if not and u are still trying to make money ingame then learn something about economy.
That's how PWI makes money. Ingame effort > RL effort

Fleuri - Sanctuary · June 2011

Fin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

for PvP i already done the math D-Archer do way more dmg because you won't reach the 5aps with bows -> Demon Spark/QS gives you more speed.

In theory, yes, you are right. But this theory does not take into account crab meat, cheap apothecaries, holy path and various class specific survival skills, nor certain skills like tree of protection, nor does it really consider the time you need to perform the quickshot, nor does this theory consider the consequences of a 50% success rate against a competent opponent.

Mind you, demon quickshot is an incredible skill. But I think people oversimplify way too much when they say it beats all other archer skills. And, depending on the situation, sages also have some good skills -- their skills are not demon quickshot of course, but that just means that they would be best in different situations.

Finally, in my opinion, when thinking about ingame earnings vs. zen... you really need to think about your real life budget when charging zen. You have a lot of external expenses in real life (taxes, and fixed costs like rent and nearly fixed costs like food and utilities, and so on). And, zen purchases need to come out of your entertainment budget, and if you are thinking about your totally hourly earnings for zen I think you are nuts. (But do not let that stop you from spending all your money! I love people that charge up their zen and pay for my funs, without me spending any of my dimes!) Anyways, personally, I do not mind missing a movie or book if I would be playing PWI anyways during the time I would have used for movie watching or book reading -- that kind of stuff makes sense to me -- but my spending never matches my gross income!

Aldryami - Sanctuary · June 2011

You don't use spark in PVP....hardly ever. So that should be taken out of the equation.

If you demon or sage spark during PvP then your enemy will be 20 miles away before you come out of the spark.

Unless you sage stun them first of course

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · June 2011

The game has gotten to a point where how furry a rat's *** is matters more then cults. Half of you arguing can't afford the gears to make your archer even remotely competitive in pk. And the other half has gears so crappy that cults won't even make you a decent player... on a good day. You (people) can argue one way or another. but when you can’t even break 10k damage… while everyone else that matters is well above the 20k mark… no one is going to give you a single glance. I could reset my skills to level 10 and still out class and damage 95+% of the archers out there.

Fragil - Harshlands · June 2011

Aldryami - Sanctuary wrote: »

You don't use spark in PVP....hardly ever. So that should be taken out of the equation.

If you demon or sage spark during PvP then your enemy will be 20 miles away before you come out of the spark.

Unless you sage stun them first of course

I love you.

Was wondering why no one had stated such an obvious thing in the previous pages lol

Spark in PVP = Enemy gets the hell out / Ironguards. If he's smart. If he's dumb, no need to spark anyway.

Plus there's much better skills to use that chi on in PVP ^^

Quilue - Sanctuary · June 2011

The only time you can T spark in mass PvP and get away it without using immunities or hiding behind a rock...is if the other faction really...really lacks ranged DDs...say it's an alt fac.

You can T spark and have a great time. lol

Devoted - Lost City · June 2011

Triple spark is great to survive another 3 seconds for that charm tick when everything is on cd. If you are going to die might as well waste your chi. Granted rarely is everything on cooldown to justify using 3 sparks but plenty of people try to tank your 3 spark, especially when you are low on hp. I wouldn't count it out of small numbered pvp but it certainly isn't common.

Fleuri - Sanctuary · June 2011

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

The only time you can T spark in mass PvP and get away it without using immunities or hiding behind a rock...is if the other faction really...really lacks ranged DDs...say it's an alt fac.

You can T spark and have a great time. lol

Do you really think so?

Personally, I triple sparked on Amplified the last time I met you in TW. (Mind you, I then proceeded to waste most of it, because I was too confused to remember how to accomplish what I had wanted to do. So my triple spark ended before I could do much beyond thunderous blast and sharpened tooth arrow. Which was about par for the course for me that night. You and someone else had taken me out before I could get my but one or two shots off during our initial contact and overall, I was not doing much good.. I even died to a visible assassin for one of my ignominious deaths. My PvP counter said I got something like 60 kills off you guys, but that does not seem accurate -- I think it inflates its count when I die a lot -- and it certainly was not enough to make a dent. We lasted, what, five minutes?)

Another Sage/Demon Thread

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