just something i thought of for nv

supertroyman1

how fast would boss die if u had say 6 +10 nv/r8 mystics (all sage with sage thivket) sage spark (cloud eroption or 2 spark pot) then thicket boss at same time. since theres no dmg gimp i can only imagine that would practically insta kill it. especially once r9 comes out

lizrau

Hmmmmm..................Idk....o_____o - waits for an archer with mad math skills to read this post -

VoItaire - Harshlands

You could get a 25% chance for a lot more dmg if you add 1 mystic with demon thicket in there lol

Praxalis - Archosaur

VoItaire - Harshlands wrote: »

You could get a 25% chance for a lot more dmg if you add 1 mystic with demon thicket in there lol

^This b:cute

Also if anyone is bored enough to calc a leech storm + thicket

Burnout - Harshlands

Ok just to clear things up, thicket does not get any boost from sparks. It goes by weapon damage only, your base magic attack has nothing to do with it.

Here is just a rought estimate, I don't really feel like getting exact numbers. And this is assuming you could keep the storm mistresses continuously nuking with no deaths or stopping. So it's an "ideal" estimate. It would def. take longer in actual practice.

+10 double sharded R8 weps, extreme poison. 6 mystics + extreme poison would do 45k * 6 = 270000 damage instantly.

Storm mistresses would each do around 4k dps with occasional amping. 6 * 4k = 24k dps.

Nature's vengeance spam would do around 2k dps. Every 30 seconds, you cast thicket, which takes around 3-4 seconds. Lets make it 4 seconds. So that leaves you with 26 seconds of NV spam, w/ the occasional transferance thrown in.

So...

Nature's spam:
26 * 2k = 52k. 52k * 6 = 312000 damage every 30 seconds.

Thicket every 30 secs:
6 * 45k = 270000 damage every 30 seconds.

Storm Mistress:
6 * 4k = 24000. 24000 * 30 = 720000 damage every 30 seconds.

Add it all up:
720000 + 270000 + 312000 = 1302000 damage every 30 seconds.

Lets say average Nirvana boss has 3500000 HP.

3500000 / 1302000 = 2.6. 2.6 * 30 = 80.6 seconds.

So, assuming all 6 mystics could spam NV, thicket every 30 seconds, and keep storm mistress's mana full, the average nirvana boss would take less than one and a half minutes to kill.

Keep in mind though that this is an ideal situation. In a real Nirvana mystics would stop to heal, pets die, people get sealed....etc.

Yuji_Sakai - Harshlands

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

Here is just a rought estimate, I don't really feel like getting exact numbers. And this is assuming

Did you account for boss elemental defense? Even without the "?" reduction, I believe normal defenses still apply. Nirv bosses don't usually have more than 3k elemental def except if they are of the specific element type, then they usually have over 4k def in that particular element. I think only noxious has 4k+ wood def, but a few of them have 4k+ metal def. I'm just going to take an average of 3k ele def. I think that may be a bit higher than the actual average, but I don't feel like taking the time to average all of those numbers.
3k ele def gives about a 33% damage reduction.

So:

1302000 x 0.67 = 872340 per 30 seconds

3500000/872340 = 4.012 x 30 = 120.3659 seconds

So if you figure in boss defenses, then it would take about 2 minutes for a perfect scenario. Yea, I probably could have just added a third of the time on but I wanted to work from the damage....because the numbers are bigger.

Burnout - Harshlands

Yuji_Sakai - Harshlands wrote: »

Did you account for boss elemental defense? Even without the "?" reduction, I believe normal defenses still apply. Nirv bosses don't usually have more than 3k elemental def except if they are of the specific element type, then they usually have over 4k def in that particular element. I think only noxious has 4k+ wood def, but a few of them have 4k+ metal def. I'm just going to take an average of 3k ele def. I think that may be a bit higher than the actual average, but I don't feel like taking the time to average all of those numbers.
3k ele def gives about a 33% damage reduction.

So:

1302000 x 0.67 = 872340 per 30 seconds

3500000/872340 = 4.012 x 30 = 120.3659 seconds

So if you figure in boss defenses, then it would take about 2 minutes for a perfect scenario. Yea, I probably could have just added a third of the time on but I wanted to work from the damage....because the numbers are bigger.

The numbers I have are with 27% elemental reduction.

supertroyman1

u have to admit though. a squad without a single 5.0 aps person in killing nv bosses that fast does sound fairly impressive.

just had another idea though. take out 1 mystic put in a bm for dragons and all fire off thicket at same time.that way theres still a tank high dd and it might be even faster

XMiyala - Dreamweaver

supertroyman1 wrote: »

u have to admit though. a squad without a single 5.0 aps person in killing nv bosses that fast does sound fairly impressive.

just had another idea though. take out 1 mystic put in a bm for dragons and all fire off thicket at same time.that way theres still a tank high dd and it might be even faster

Yea, but if one mystic had demon thicket, then wouldn't that over write heaven's flame?

supertroyman1

well im not totally sure. the demon thicket amp does last a bit longer then hf but only 25% chance were as bm can drop as soon as ready. so its more of a garenteed amp. not sure if it will overwrite probably something that needs to be looked in to. if it dosnt overwrite it then 1 demon mystic would be nice but if it does. would be more efficient to add the 1 bm i think...... only cuz ur working off garenteed amp not just chance to amp

Yuji_Sakai - Harshlands

supertroyman1 wrote: »

well im not totally sure. the demon thicket amp does last a bit longer then hf but only 25% chance were as bm can drop as soon as ready. so its more of a garenteed amp. not sure if it will overwrite probably something that needs to be looked in to. if it dosnt overwrite it then 1 demon mystic would be nice but if it does. would be more efficient to add the 1 bm i think...... only cuz ur working off garenteed amp not just chance to amp

How much does Demon Thicket amp anyway? I know the chance is 25%, but does it amp as much as DG?

XMiyala - Dreamweaver

I'm not sure if demon thicket overrides HF, because I've never seen the demon version be used. But, I do know that if the debuff icon that pops up looks exactly like the HF icon, then yes, it will override it. This is just an assumption on my part, because previously as a demon veno, I knew that demon parasitic nova would override HF.

Yuji_Sakai - Harshlands

XMiyala - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm not sure if demon thicket overrides HF, because I've never seen the demon version be used. But, I do know that if the debuff icon that pops up looks exactly like the HF icon, then yes, it will override it. This is just an assumption on my part, because previously as a demon veno, I knew that demon parasitic nova would override HF.

However, even with the same icon, it may stack. Other effects that share the same icon stack. The damage boost buff from GV's and the barb's damage boost buff share the same icon and do stack. Also, the spark damage boost and GV damage boost stack. Not sure if all three of those stack, I never seem to look at my buffs after I've sparked with a barb in the squad.

There is no way to know without testing it.

UltimaDeath - Harshlands

id rather like to see 6 lvl 100+ sage cragglords all cast at the same target. with +10 r8 gear to max the damage

VoItaire - Harshlands

↑This lol cragg does more dmg in its 20 secs than thicket does instantaneously. But the demon thicket would still have purpose unless there is a bm.

XMiyala - Dreamweaver

Yuji_Sakai - Harshlands wrote: »

However, even with the same icon, it may stack. Other effects that share the same icon stack. The damage boost buff from GV's and the barb's damage boost buff share the same icon and do stack. Also, the spark damage boost and GV damage boost stack. Not sure if all three of those stack, I never seem to look at my buffs after I've sparked with a barb in the squad.

There is no way to know without testing it.

Well that's true, those skills do stack, just like a cleric's BB and barb's invoke stack even though they have the same icon. In theory, you would think that the same thing would work for sage spark and BB, but instead they cancel each other out, just like RB and demon spark.
If you have barb buffs when you spark, the buffs will stack with you spark. However in most cases, if it has the same icon, they will overwrite each other. That's why I was saying if demon thicket has the same icon as HF, then it would overwrite each other, but you're right, there is no way to know without testing. Besides, I don't know what icon pop's up anyways with demon thicket, hence why i keep saying "if". For all I know it could be the same icon as a veno's amplify, which in that case it would probably over write that skill.

Chrisalys - Dreamweaver

Regardless of the icons, there are some skills which stack, and others which don't.

For example: Soul degeneration overwrites Amplify damage (and vice-versa), they dont have the same icon (nor the same effect).
The "Attack Increased" buff stacks up to 4 times: 1 from barbs SotT, 1 from the spark, 1 from Rb and 1 from weapon random buff, and they all have the same icon and buff description (when you land cursor over the buff). Also, they all have the same effect.


Other known stack is BB + Invoke the Spirit. This one have been mentioned.

Also, DoT's are completely stackable and the icons bug on screen, but still working. If you do blazing scarab and do it again as soon as it cools down and a third time, as soon as it cools down again, you will see that the "Crown of flame" debuff vanishes from the target's buffs, but the mob/player still have the fireball on his head and damage will still raise on screen b:victory

Edit: Other known stack is Iron Heart Blessing, which stacks with itself, with Sunder and with Elixirs, although, its icon bugs and you may still have heals while icon ain't on screen anymore.

On pvp, put 2 psychics to cast Torrent against on a barb, just for testing. The barb will take damage from both torrents and will have only 1 DoT icon on his buffs.

In short: Whatever are the icons, buff stackability doesn't depend on the icons.

ArchAngeLi - Harshlands

XMiyala - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm not sure if demon thicket overrides HF, because I've never seen the demon version be used. But, I do know that if the debuff icon that pops up looks exactly like the HF icon, then yes, it will override it. This is just an assumption on my part, because previously as a demon veno, I knew that demon parasitic nova would override HF.

Everything with the icon named CURSE (Heaven Flames, Blood Vow, Parasitic Nova) will overwrite each other. Considering the chance of actually procing, its much more reliable to take an aps BM who can dg instead of a good geared demon mystic with the hope of amping every once in a while. Cragglord would be much more effective than both sage/demon thicket though in my opinion, sage is 23 secs and demon has a chance to cost 1 spark only if I recall correctly? they are both good adds.

XMiyala - Dreamweaver

ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »

Everything with the icon named CURSE (Heaven Flames, Blood Vow, Parasitic Nova) will overwrite each other. Considering the chance of actually procing, its much more reliable to take an aps BM who can dg instead of a good geared demon mystic with the hope of amping every once in a while. Cragglord would be much more effective than both sage/demon thicket though in my opinion, sage is 23 secs and demon has a chance to cost 1 spark only if I recall correctly? they are both good adds.

Kind of an old thread, but I do agree on the "getting a bm's HF and using cragglord". It would do so much more damage than thicket, and you wouldn't have to worry about a demon mystic's thicket overwriting hf

theheck0

Chrisalys - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Regardless of the icons, there are some skills which stack, and others which don't.

For example: Soul degeneration overwrites Amplify damage (and vice-versa), they dont have the same icon (nor the same effect).
The "Attack Increased" buff stacks up to 4 times: 1 from barbs SotT, 1 from the spark, 1 from Rb and 1 from weapon random buff, and they all have the same icon and buff description (when you land cursor over the buff). Also, they all have the same effect.


Other known stack is BB + Invoke the Spirit. This one have been mentioned.

Also, DoT's are completely stackable and the icons bug on screen, but still working. If you do blazing scarab and do it again as soon as it cools down and a third time, as soon as it cools down again, you will see that the "Crown of flame" debuff vanishes from the target's buffs, but the mob/player still have the fireball on his head and damage will still raise on screen b:victory

Edit: Other known stack is Iron Heart Blessing, which stacks with itself, with Sunder and with Elixirs, although, its icon bugs and you may still have heals while icon ain't on screen anymore.

On pvp, put 2 psychics to cast Torrent against on a barb, just for testing. The barb will take damage from both torrents and will have only 1 DoT icon on his buffs.

In short: Whatever are the icons, buff stackability doesn't depend on the icons.

Venomancers debuffs cant stack because they can only be used one at a time. It doesn't count ._. b:bye

Brillance - Raging Tide

Swirling Mist seems to be the only real DoT Ive noticed on mystics. Does it stack as well?