How to Balance PWI.

Kane_lust - Heavens Tear

Hey. I was thinking with my friend today, How to balance PWI. My buddy came up with a good idea and i wanna share it with you. Now its not a new idea to Games, If im right HoTK has it in a way. and this will give us 100+'s a reason to keep leveling. Now Imagin if a barb could Arma from Stealth. Or a Cleric that could bramble guard. Now what we were thinking. Add Spec lvl's for example we will call them God levels. After a character hits lvl 105 they could gain different levels and with these levels that class could learn different skills of a different class. Now it couldent get 2 crazy where they learn the whole skill list but maybe for every 2 levels They could get 1 skill from a different class. If You think about it, it would have a big impact on the game and should make things a lot different. Stealth would be a skill that most would want 2 learn but, to fix that we could do 1 skill from each class so a barb could learn Stealth but cant learn detect stealth. Anyways that my boredom thought of today. talk maybe pwi would give it a thought. ive been stuck at 101 for a while because i dont see any point to level as im sure many others.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

>.> that idea doesn't sound like any balancing.

Megabyte_ - Heavens Tear

Interesting idea... I like the idea of more diversity in skills and personalized skill sets, but this could also imbalance the game further. A Sin with HF, a cleric with bm's long aoe stun, all classes with Ironheart... just a few that come to mind.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

^ Not to mention stealth. Stealth BIDS, stealth Arma, stealth ulti's. PvP would be ruined even more

Kane_lust - Heavens Tear

Yes but the classes such as sin with HF Could be avoided with stealth detect. or.. i dont play psy but soul of resist XD all the classes could do multiple things some 2 counter others Yeah it woul dmake things harder and peopl ewould need 2 actually put thought into what they add. But u have to think about what you could do with the extra skills not what a sin could do to you.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Kane_lust - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes but the classes such as sin with HF Could be avoided with stealth detect. or.. i dont play psy but soul of resist XD all the classes could do multiple things some 2 counter others Yeah it woul dmake things harder and peopl ewould need 2 actually put thought into what they add. But u have to think about what you could do with the extra skills not what a sin could do to you.

No, that isn't what would happen. What makes the sin or cleric balanced is the skills they have to make up for certain weakness. The soul of the psychic for example. What good is stealth detection if the sin can use that? Why play a squishy class that can see the sin coming to roflpwn you? That wouldn't work on this game.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

I'd get a barb with cleric buffs, HF, stealth, and BP

Kane_lust - Heavens Tear

some1 said cleric buffs remember only 1 skill from a class. idk i think about it as something fun.

StreamElf - Sanctuary

That would make my dream of a healing barb possible o.o

But isn't their heal very low then? Since they have very low magic. And do you need to use the correct weapon for a skill? For example, I, a cleric, get HF. Do I need axes or something?

I do like the idea, makes the OPs less OP, and the ones that aren't OP at all a bit more OP.

_Petal_ - Harshlands

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Why play a squishy class that can see the sin coming to roflpwn you? That wouldn't work on this game.

So, what you're saying is that everybody should just continue to play OTHER squishy classes that CAN'T see the assassin coming to roflpwn you? Because that's obviously more balanced. [/sarcasm]

Want to balance the game? Stop putting gear in the cash shop. Give barbs aggro power. I'm sure everybody who rolled a WB before the genie expansion would love to be important and wanted again. Put the god damn cap for APS back to 3.33. STOP putting -int on gears that adds up and adds up to INSANE amounts of it! Make fists BM only! If you can restrict it to Seekers and Mystics, what is your excuse for the rest of the classes?! I'd like my archer to be able to actually be able to get in Nirvana squads USING A BOW. Nurf the damage done by Seeker's freaking Gemini Slash, and Mystic skills in general. I'm talking spells and pets.
NURF STEALTH SKILLS!

I think I covered everything. Shame that they're not going to listen.

KillinEye - Sanctuary

Might be a nice idea, but you surely will have to set boundaries. You should not be able to learn every skill available from other classes, only a few (I'd prefer supportive or passive, so no attack) skills. Going to be a load of work to get this idea worked out so that it will actually balance PWI.

I'd rather see a nerf on stealth skills, but also on other things in pvp/pk. In PvE its okay. Ofcourse it's insane to have sin only runs because sins can run any dungeon as if though it is wined, because of their stealth. But its about PvP. I'd suggest a drawback on using stealth.
Think of lowered stats after you come out of stealth, making it easier for others to survive a stealth attack. In combination with a higher cooltime?

Or maybe a revamp on duels/pk? I was thinking about making it easier for magic classes to cast their skill before they are already killed by some 5.0 nub. Just for duels/pk, nerf the dmg melee deals to magic (and vice versa?), or reduce casting time from skills by a notch? All to make it a bit more balanced in pk/duels.

I don't think you should consider my idea's as serious attempts to fix unbalancing, but you should see it as a direction I'd like to see the balancing going, unlike allowing all classes to get skills from other classes.

I agree with _Petal_ on this, its not just the sins that need fixing, barbs aggro skills need to be reinforced to keep aggro from 5 aps nubs, aps might as well be nerfed a bit. Archers should be Archers again, not clawrchers. Etc.

Abstractive - Archosaur

I'll have a double demon HF with Arma topping on the rocks, please.

TekkOneStylz - Harshlands

_Petal_ - Harshlands wrote: »

So, what you're saying is that everybody should just continue to play OTHER squishy classes that CAN'T see the assassin coming to roflpwn you? Because that's obviously more balanced. [/sarcasm]

Want to balance the game? Stop putting gear in the cash shop. Give barbs aggro power. I'm sure everybody who rolled a WB before the genie expansion would love to be important and wanted again. Put the god damn cap for APS back to 3.33. STOP putting -int on gears that adds up and adds up to INSANE amounts of it! Make fists BM only! If you can restrict it to Seekers and Mystics, what is your excuse for the rest of the classes?! I'd like my archer to be able to actually be able to get in Nirvana squads USING A BOW. Nurf the damage done by Seeker's freaking Gemini Slash, and Mystic skills in general. I'm talking spells and pets.
NURF STEALTH SKILLS!

I think I covered everything. Shame that they're not going to listen.

my guess is Cash Muhhney.It looks to me that pw sees how ridiculous it is but also seen how many non bm's bought into it so they are afraid to restrict it because ''fist archers'' and ''claw barbs'' might rage quit and then they lose money. So then making Seekers unable to use fist from the start is them secretly trying to look like they r being considerate. ( has seen on forums around expansion time people saying they were gonna make a ''fist seeker'' then they got all mad that seekers couldnt use fist lol

Evict - Heavens Tear

Just imagine a class that could instacast aoe stuns, reflect damage back at it's attackers AND seal them automatically, adjust their own attack and defense levels and cause the target to take damage when they attack. Oh wait, we have Psychics already.

eyehaveyou

Nope OP's suggestion wouldnt help balancing, it would do even more damage to the game.

What would be the point of learning 1 skill of each class? Wizards/Psys able to see Stealthed people, and able to stun lock every1 for 2 minutes and can detect every1? hell please don't bring that idea to game.

Zerasin - Lost City

that is the dumest idea ive ever seen -.- omg the only thing that needs to be balanced r with Archers with stealth detect cuz they get ***** hard by sins lol

X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear

Imagine this.

Barb with Stealth > Maze Steps > Shadow Teleport > HF > Inner Harmony > Arma > Force Stealth.

Coincidence I'd rather have most sin skills? b:surrender

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

_Petal_ - Harshlands wrote: »

So, what you're saying is that everybody should just continue to play OTHER squishy classes that CAN'T see the assassin coming to roflpwn you? Because that's obviously more balanced. [/sarcasm]

NO that was not my point at all. My point was this, he said you can get stealth detection, not stealth. Meanwhile the assassin can get things like HF, Cleric Buffs/Heals, psychic souls, bramble hood, etc. So great, your char can now see the assassin. Too bad that now that they got even more stunning skills, could use souls like a psychic and heals like a cleric that it won't matter at all that you can see them. You take an OP class, add in all of the OP skills of every other class and you're going to get the ONLY character worth rolling. As all the reasons to roll the other classes are no longer valid. And then it doesn't matter what they do, they won't be able to beat it. But oh yeah, you get to see him coming. That should make up for it! I'm not saying that stealth is balanced, I'm saying the OP's idea would make the balance issue even worse than it already is.



Want to balance the game? Stop putting gear in the cash shop. Give barbs aggro power. I'm sure everybody who rolled a WB before the genie expansion would love to be important and wanted again. Put the god damn cap for APS back to 3.33. STOP putting -int on gears that adds up and adds up to INSANE amounts of it! Make fists BM only! If you can restrict it to Seekers and Mystics, what is your excuse for the rest of the classes?! I'd like my archer to be able to actually be able to get in Nirvana squads USING A BOW. Nurf the damage done by Seeker's freaking Gemini Slash, and Mystic skills in general. I'm talking spells and pets.
NURF STEALTH SKILLS!

I think I covered everything. Shame that they're not going to listen.


I don't really think that the mystics and seekers skills are that OP, but that's just me.

My replies in red

Raapy - Raging Tide

1st of All sins have "hf" the sage subsea strike have the same effect as HF, and sins doesnt have that high defences, and have close range atacks, without stealth they would be easy targets

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

Why choose a class?

Imagine a BM with BIDS, or a sin with BoA, or psy with Vortex

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Raapy - Raging Tide wrote: »

1st of All sins have "hf" the sage subsea strike have the same effect as HF, and sins doesnt have that high defences, and have close range atacks, without stealth they would be easy targets

Um, HF is a 100% amp whereas Sage Subsea is 50%. And majority of all sins are Demon anyway. Not to mention that Sage Subsea is a damnedly rare skill.

TekkOneStylz - Harshlands

Raapy - Raging Tide wrote: »

1st of All sins have "hf" the sage subsea strike have the same effect as HF, and sins doesnt have that high defences, and have close range atacks, without stealth they would be easy targets

Dont gimme that. Its not the idea of stealth so much but how ridiculous the stealth system is thats the problem. sins easy targets without stealth?Well with stealth practically everyone else is an easy target since the stealth system is r3tar'ded. A stealth that u can stay in for as long as it takes to position urself and double spark and somehow not expose urself still? Thats cheap enough in itself. Stealth should have like a 20 second time limit max cause now wut we got is a bunch of people making sins since its a no brainer class for pk.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

I think EVERYONE agrees that PW's implementation of stealth is the most fail thing ever in the history of the universe. It causes massive imbalance issues, especially in small group PVP and 1v1 PVP. The skills available in stealth also make stealth ridiculously OP.

The Devs could have actually looked at other games a little more closely to copy the system, instead of just hacking this stupid **** together.

As for Seekers, they are OP as well. An HA user that can basically run through another faction in TW, get into the most dense spot, and vortex, kill 20-30 people on the first iteration of Vortex, then pick off multiple other people, run back out through the middle of the faction, and not die (or even tick their damn charm), is a bit on the OP side. That's with physical and arcane hitting them from all sides.

And there are Psys. With ridiculous Attack and Defense levels, they can oneshot literally anything, while being immune to the same themselves, with high refined gear and the right shards. R8 Psy with +10 gear in White VooDoo will survive an Arma from an R9 +12 Barb, and can then switch to black VooDoo, and oneshot him. And that R9 +12 barb, if he's charmed, will go back up to 47k HP again.

So, there's some serious balance issues here.

Eventually TW will be a stagnant mess, nothing but 3 hour TW's where nobody wins and the only strategy is to turtle, because everyone has god-mode gear and can oneshot everyone. Even R9 +12 barbs with 47k hp won't be able to get to the enemy crystal, or if they do, they will die so fast it won't matter.

When that happens, I think most people will quit TW again, and PWE staff will go 'oh noes, our stocks are falling! What do we do?!' and then, the game will become true PVE for the PVE servers.

Of course, people with really good gear are quitting occasionally, so... it might not happen.

But PW Beijing is planning for the next expansion. onwards and upwards, who cares if the basics aren't right?

PhantomThief - Archosaur

If each class where allowed to have one skill from all the other classes, I don't think that would change the balance issue. For one thing, you would have to change the mechanics of many parts of the game. Every class would have to have Soulforce. Every skill would have to work off of physical and magical attack. The amount of effort required alone is insane, not to mention all the unbalance that would result from Assassins with Soul of Stunning, Barbs with Adrenal Numbness, Clerics with Invoke, the list of insane, OP combinations goes on. (Especially Assassins with several skills from other classes, it would literally make them gods)

As for balancing the game in a simple way, stealth can be fixed by making it run off of Chi instead of MP. If Stealth drained 10 Chi per second, an Assassin could only be invisible for 400 seconds if they started with full Chi. Granted, they could use Inner Harmony to increase that time to 550 seconds, but they wouldn't be able to Spark or HeadHunt from Stealth as easily. It would require players to be think about how they used their Chi, like with most other classes

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Heh, an Assassin with Invoke... There you go.

And then... You open up new cans of worms. What happens if, say, you get Fox Form on a Barb? Or Fox Form on an Assassin? Fox Fish? Tiger form on a Cleric? Or Tiger Form on a BM?

Now you just broke something extremely complicated.

I'd go for Invoke on my Sin, that would be truly scary. Pop out of stealth on a Psy, and they couldn't actually kill you... Mind numbing.

And then, you come to the masteries. Fist Mastery on an Archer, for example, would be... Somewhat bad. Or blazing arrow on a BM, or Sin, now you have something truely awful.

Those skills that add damage to normal attacks on some classes... Would allow 5.0's to boost their DPS even more. A 5.0 Fist Sin with Fist Mastery, Blazing Arrow, and Poison Fang. Yeah, sounds like a REALLY good idea to me!

Why not just give GM gear to everyone, so we can just oneshot world bosses at level 1?

Woneo - Harshlands

The door is this way, op.

__Kikyo__ - Lost City

nerf tideborn class

make bramble gaurd work in pvp

problem fixed.

storehammy

o_o'
The idea reminds me of Daredevil 64's 4 player multiplayer.
(>.<)'

KedgeSniper - Lost City

1.- Medals should be in Shop.

2.- Sin stealth Times to 20 seconds instead of unlimited.(maybe 30) and Stealth can be seen by people of Your lv. (That would make people lv more instead of sins just rushin higher lvls).

3.- Force to stealth dont give spark but removes "effets" like bleed.

4.- Bramble should work in PVP.

5.- Lower 5.0 to 4.0 max, that would decrease the chain stun you death effect.

6.- Psy silence skill when you atack.. Have a long cooldown ( i mean not so often proc).

7.- Spark on stealth force you out of stealth.

Probably could think of more.. But i doubt anything ever happen ^^

As far as i know.. Original developers dont even work in this game anymore.

thienthan

every have barb HP buff then barbie will completely wipe out from PWI.

Niteshadows - Harshlands

i knew this would be about sins lol. put a damn timer on stealth and there u go.

/thread