Nostalgia for wizard class

Nunxbl - Archosaur

I have been playing with wizard class year ago and I remember that it was my best playing time. I often create new characters, delete them, delete game and download again... I think that it's enoug for that! I want one main character, probably wizard! I have never like melee class, so I want caster one. I have tryed all classes and wizard looks the most balanced, really? But Nowadays, when I see high level wizards with the best gears and +10 - +12 refining, it take me away, because I think that I never have it. I don't know why, but wizard class looks for me kingy or something. What are your thoughts?

IrenaSteiner - Dreamweaver

Dont let the +10/12 refines discourage you. Play the wiz as u see fit, fun and playable. As with any other class. I recently restarted this wiz not long ago and im not worried about uber gear like mad refines or R8/9. So for the time being, im just having fun.

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

I perfectly understand what you mean when you say you doubt that you'll ever be able to have the amazing gear many other wiz players have. Unfortunately i have some bad news for you namely

a) wizard is by far the most expensive class of all the casters available in the game
b) wizard is now the most useless class because it can be replaced in every single position by another class whereas it doesnt work the other way round
c) you are expected to have good gear in order to be able to compete with average and with some classes even below average geared people


So now to the good news:

a) wizards game mechanics are awesome
b) wizards are still usefull in TW
c) wizards can be nice in PvP with appropriate gear/genie
d) wizards are a versatile class

After you know all this now just go ahead and play your wiz if you have fun doing so but one final suggestion dont make it your main because unless you want to do merchanting there are other classes better for moneymaking

greetz harm0wnie

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

i believe psy cost more,

since they shine with HIGH refines and use up more mana

rgog

I found my wizzard frustrating and gave up at level 38, I could almost never kill anything higher than my level and even at my level monsters I had to med/pot after 2 or 3 kills.

I re-rolled a veno and it has been smooth sailing to level 8x

I have an alt SIN but the levels 30-50 have been a bit challenging, still I know at 80+ I will be powerful.

I have heard Wiz is powerful at 90+ but the road there is too long for me to stick with it.

good luck

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i believe psy cost more,

since they shine with HIGH refines and use up more mana

well i think as a psy you dont need good gear when your skills are up
because skill based defense skills vs equipment based defense skills for the wiz
i mean as a wiz you need minimum hp + minimum pfdef to get a chance while
as a psy "immunity" helps. But i agree in the point that a psy also costs a lot if you
really want to pwn because high soulforce effects require high refining

greetz harm0wnie

Alex_Gantz - Dreamweaver

HarmOwnie is a Wizard... but after reading a lot of her comments on this forum it looks like she hates wizards.. b:surrenderb:questionb:question

Galox - Heavens Tear

Alex_Gantz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

HarmOwnie is a Wizard... but after reading a lot of her comments on this forum it looks like she hates wizards.. b:surrenderb:questionb:question

I kinda agree with you there.

Anyhow, to the OP:

Play the damned Wizard if you find the damned Wizard fun to play!

My main may now be a BM. (Got Demon<3) but Wizard will always be my favourite. Why I stopped my Wizard temporarily? I fancied a change. My Wizard has been played for like 2 years, my BM a few months, so I just needed a little change. BM ain't too shabby so far, not as interesting as a Wizard imo though.

So, really, if you want to play a Wizard and you find the class fun, go ahead and play it. There is really way too much drama surrounding the "Wizards are completely useless" trend. You WILL get into BH Squads. You WILL get into FF Squads. You WILL get into TT squads. You CAN get into Nirvana Squads.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

Alex_Gantz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

HarmOwnie is a Wizard... but after reading a lot of her comments on this forum it looks like she hates wizards.. b:surrenderb:questionb:question

She know Wizard class and she want to improve it.

She don't like, that game is so unbalanced.

Read her posts again.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Alex_Gantz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

HarmOwnie is a Wizard... but after reading a lot of her comments on this forum it looks like she hates wizards.. b:surrenderb:questionb:question

No. If you want someone to say "wizard pwn!!!!" there are plenty of idiots out there that will do just that.

They will be wrong, and if you believe them you will be a fool, but they are out there.

Point is, the days of "wizards pwn" are pre-fish mostly, and HarmO wanting to give people a realistic view of the class as opposed to the shameless self-promotion others are so want to do, isn't a criticism, its a compliment.

Wizards are fun.
Not useful.
Not necessary.
Not cheap.
Not the best.
Not alot of things.

Just fun. For the people that like to play them.

If you want to farm your butt off, or be good in pvp without billlions in gear, or want to be unkillable in pvp, or want to be able to kill anyone, then wizard is not for you.

Adroit - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

No. If you want someone to say "wizard pwn!!!!" there are plenty of idiots out there that will do just that.

They will be wrong, and if you believe them you will be a fool, but they are out there.

Point is, the days of "wizards pwn" are pre-fish mostly, and HarmO wanting to give people a realistic view of the class as opposed to the shameless self-promotion others are so want to do, isn't a criticism, its a compliment.

Wizards are fun.
Not useful.
Not necessary.
Not cheap.
Not the best.
Not alot of things.

Just fun. For the people that like to play them.

If you want to farm your butt off, or be good in pvp without billlions in gear, or want to be unkillable in pvp, or want to be able to kill anyone, then wizard is not for you.

wizards are good in pvp and TW.. only class we really can't handle is sins

Alex_Gantz - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

wizards are good in pvp and TW.. only class we really can't handle is sins

Can any one actually handle Sins?
And regarding the Wizzy issue.. i really want to reach lvl100 to see if we s u c k that much.. so far I`m not having problems to find squads and I`m still wanted due to the fact that I can make more damage than any class at my lvl, I also have a lot of problems to run BHs without a Barb due to the aggro issuem I always end stealing aggro even from two Veno pets and a seeker (always talking about same lvl characters)... so.. i`m still waiting to be as bad as what you say Wizards can be...

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

Alex_Gantz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Can any one actually handle Sins?
And regarding the Wizzy issue.. i really want to reach lvl100 to see if we s u c k that much.. so far I`m not having problems to find squads and I`m still wanted due to the fact that I can make more damage than any class at my lvl, I also have a lot of problems to run BHs without a Barb due to the aggro issuem I always end stealing aggro even from two Veno pets and a seeker (always talking about same lvl characters)... so.. i`m still waiting to be as bad as what you say Wizards can be...

even in low lvls
a psychic is ALWAYS higher damage, at any lvl
and assasins with the right build should outdamage you with same gear as well


the rocking awesomeness of intervall gears starts at lvl90, where the intervall cape and wrists are common
95 it gets worse with deicide weapons
at 99 you lost the game
100 is just laughing hard, lolol.5.0 dagger-assasin



to have somewhat numbers in time:
a squad of 5 heavy geared wizards would take ~1hour for nirvana
a squad of 5 assasins 10 minutes


..
my assasin is only lvl95, but i think it outdamages wiz already

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

Alex_Gantz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Can any one actually handle Sins?
And regarding the Wizzy issue.. i really want to reach lvl100 to see if we s u c k that much.. so far I`m not having problems to find squads and I`m still wanted due to the fact that I can make more damage than any class at my lvl, I also have a lot of problems to run BHs without a Barb due to the aggro issuem I always end stealing aggro even from two Veno pets and a seeker (always talking about same lvl characters)... so.. i`m still waiting to be as bad as what you say Wizards can be...

@Magicsaber: unfortunately it is up to PWI and not up to me to change something in class balancing and i doubt they will start to do class balancing. Even if some minor changes would be enough to make the wiz more appealing. For instance 100% purify chance for elemental shell was suggested several times before and even if it is in the sticky thread in suggestion forum they havent implemented any of the suggested changes not even the rubberbanding bug is fixed

@Alex_Gantz: i remember the time when i was your lvl and and compared dmg with my friend who played an archer. he was jealous of my SS dmg and of the large numbers i got when i had a crit. But after i gave him sleeves with 2x -0.05 int which i dropped from a mob and after he had his rank4 chest with -int his interval evened out the dmg we made ( he used wind and clouds slingshot). So even if in terms of DPH i was still ahead my low -chan and the fact that he had a way higher crit rate with pure dex build lead to a situation where we both ~ did same dmg. Once he turned 90 and got his demon spark he clearly started outdmging me especially when he used fists.

I dont know who tanked in your squad but venos with herc/nix do a lot dmg on ? bosses because their pets dont suffer dmg reduction but it is easy to outdmg them when their pets are tanking because they have to heal the pets or debuff and cant fully DD.

In my lvl 100 BHs it's quite common that a 5aps char has done 100-200k dmg on a mob in the time it takes me to channel 1 glacial snare which hits 20-30 k. The only situation where i might be able to even out in terms of dmg would be when i use my ultis with serveral debuffs like HF from bm and it is timed right but even then it is just 1 huge hit and that's it. So if you really want to get ~ same dmg then you would have to talk of multiple mobs and not of 1 mob or 1 boss

@Bloodmystic: that's exactly the point wiz is fun to play and if you enjoy playing it go for it . The only reason why i might sound negative so often is that i dont want people who read this forum here to get a wrong impression. I mean most of the outdated class guides in the sticky say something like --> wiz is weak in the beginning and will steadily improve in performance and once you are endgame(101+) you will be the absolute power.
But people who tell you this forget to tell you 2 important things a)most of the other classes are at least as powerfull as you endgame and b) for most of them you have to spend less to get there.

@HexOmega: omg you also dared to say that psy outdmgs wiz now it's only seconds until mage fishpain will come here and tell you that wiz still is highest dph xD

greetz harm0wnie

PS: I finally learned kame hame ha xD ( sage bids )

Zvyn - Heavens Tear

Kinda disagree about venos because even if we're spending the time to heal the pet on a ? boss the pet will still have most of the kill damage unless there is a full squad. Even then I'm still likely to account for at least 20-30% of the overall damage done to the boss if not more than that.

b:victory I do have a wizard. I got a little bored of her (like I got bored of my sin after her), but my whole point for having her was really the dragon aoe at 59. I've said it before with other characters on other boards; people will make a class for one reason or another. My veno was my first because I liked having a pet and not having to spend so much on pots. After that was this bm, which died at L40 until I started playing her again a few weeks ago, and then came my cleric. My main reason for making the cleric was for tempest. I play my classes for fun, not because of whichever job the game thinks they need to fulfill. If you ever noticed, all of the classes have support skills and DD skills, some just come with more or less or a better balance of them than others. So, technically, every class is a DD first. Oh, my reason for my sin, I guess it was just to see what the hype was about. They don't have any skills that seem spectacular to me.

YOURLIEZ - Archosaur

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I perfectly understand what you mean when you say you doubt that you'll ever be able to have the amazing gear many other wiz players have. Unfortunately i have some bad news for you namely

a) wizard is by far the most expensive class of all the casters available in the game
b) wizard is now the most useless class because it can be replaced in every single position by another class whereas it doesnt work the other way round
c) you are expected to have good gear in order to be able to compete with average and with some classes even below average geared people


So now to the good news:

a) wizards game mechanics are awesome
b) wizards are still usefull in TW
c) wizards can be nice in PvP with appropriate gear/genie
d) wizards are a versatile class

After you know all this now just go ahead and play your wiz if you have fun doing so but one final suggestion dont make it your main because unless you want to do merchanting there are other classes better for moneymaking

greetz harm0wnie

Idc what anyone says
Wizzy = best DPH DDs

Alex_Gantz - Dreamweaver

HarmOwnie, the Veno`s running with me didn t have the Herc only the regular big ones (can t remember the name)... I have a lot of fun playing my wizzy.. but I m starting to hate you for telling the true b:sad

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

Alex_Gantz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

HarmOwnie, the Veno`s running with me didn t have the Herc only the regular big ones (can t remember the name)... I have a lot of fun playing my wizzy.. but I m starting to hate you for telling the true b:sad

I am not sure but i think the crystalline magmite ( "the regular tank pet") isnt a lot weaker in terms of dmg dealt to bosses but is vulnerable to magical attacks and doesnt have the awesome pet skills of a herc.

Ok to lighten your mood i will tell you from yesterdays TW vs InTandem where my sage BIDS critted up to 16k on some people and the average dmg of it was ~4-5k depending on the gear of the enemy. And this is the dmg without debuffs or HF. And my weapon is r8+6 which is not the best for endgame. So finally it makes sense to cast the beautiful dragon b:dirty

I also had a lot of fun killing the succubus in Hell with it the 100+ ones ( finally an application for fire barrier ^^) keep going with your wiz because even if we arent the top of the food chain remember - together the ants can conquer the elephant. (dead prez-together) ^^

greetz harm0wnie

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

Zvyn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh, my reason for my sin, I guess it was just to see what the hype was about. They don't have any skills that seem spectacular to me.

In the beginning sins dont shine that much because like with wiz you gradually unleash the powers of the class. So you should at least play your sin till the point where you get BloodPaint and deaden nerves.

Zvyn - Heavens Tear

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In the beginning sins dont shine that much because like with wiz you gradually unleash the powers of the class. So you should at least play your sin till the point where you get BloodPaint and deaden nerves.

Lol she got to L84 before I got bored of her. I tried so hard to get her to 85 because an archer friend gave me his frost gear for that level. I just couldn't do it though. I was sick of playing her and runing BH69 with noobs that didn't know what a tank looked like or how a squad worked and oh my god clerics can do more than just buff and heal! The game is much less complicated when you can solo most of it with your hubby and a cleric. b:cute But I like squading with noobs anyhow. I either get to unleash pent up frustrations or I get to remember that not everyone is a plvl noob that doesn't know diddly squat about the class they play. I do miss the good ol' days.

Pearlwood - Lost City

Zvyn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lol she got to L84 before I got bored of her. I tried so hard to get her to 85 because an archer friend gave me his frost gear for that level. I just couldn't do it though. I was sick of playing her and runing BH69 with noobs that didn't know what a tank looked like or how a squad worked and oh my god clerics can do more than just buff and heal! The game is much less complicated when you can solo most of it with your hubby and a cleric. b:cute But I like squading with noobs anyhow. I either get to unleash pent up frustrations or I get to remember that not everyone is a plvl noob that doesn't know diddly squat about the class they play. I do miss the good ol' days.

For PVE there is nothing like a good barb - cleric squad. It's still the best, I don't care what anybody says. If you've never seen Kegerator barb a frost (faction Shinra), then you're missing something. He rounds up everything in the big room at the same time, boss, mobs, harpies...the whole ball of wax. And, then we kill it all at once. That room is one big 3 minute explosion. Then we do the heads for dessert.

In the last room, yep u guessed it, he rounds up all the mobs and bosses and we destroy it together.

I've seen nothing like it and I've been in cleric-less squads consisting of only high APS sins and bm's. Yes, that's good...very good. But, it's nothing like the Kegerator. End of story. Period.

Fistol - Raging Tide

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

For PVE there is nothing like a good barb - cleric squad. It's still the best, I don't care what anybody says. If you've never seen Kegerator barb a frost (faction Shinra), then you're missing something. He rounds up everything in the big room at the same time, boss, mobs, harpies...the whole ball of wax. And, then we kill it all at once. That room is one big 3 minute explosion. Then we do the heads for dessert.

In the last room, yep u guessed it, he rounds up all the mobs and bosses and we destroy it together.

I've seen nothing like it and I've been in cleric-less squads consisting of only high APS sins and bm's. Yes, that's good...very good. But, it's nothing like the Kegerator. End of story. Period.

Such a thing happen and no one took a video? b:pleased

I think if you like wizard , you will play it no matter what.
And you are still wanted in delta even with seeker around due to the mobs there having lower magic resist compare to magic.

Adroit - Lost City

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

For PVE there is nothing like a good barb - cleric squad. It's still the best, I don't care what anybody says. If you've never seen Kegerator barb a frost (faction Shinra), then you're missing something. He rounds up everything in the big room at the same time, boss, mobs, harpies...the whole ball of wax. And, then we kill it all at once. That room is one big 3 minute explosion. Then we do the heads for dessert.

In the last room, yep u guessed it, he rounds up all the mobs and bosses and we destroy it together.

I've seen nothing like it and I've been in cleric-less squads consisting of only high APS sins and bm's. Yes, that's good...very good. But, it's nothing like the Kegerator. End of story. Period.

and then you see a sin do the same thing solo (and faster).. and wonder what the devs were thinking.

Pearlwood - Lost City

Fistol - Raging Tide wrote: »

Such a thing happen and no one took a video? b:pleased

I think if you like wizard , you will play it no matter what.
And you are still wanted in delta even with seeker around due to the mobs there having lower magic resist compare to magic.

Yes it happened. With Keg it "happens" all the time. That's the way he does it.
Oh, and to answer Adroit's comment, Keg usually has an old sin hanging around in the squad too. So, ima not dissin the sins here.

We were talking about 'nostalgia'. This is the best pve I ever saw and in an old fashioned squad like that, my presence is still appreciated.

There was another frost run that stands out in my mind. Almon took me in there one time. He told me just to relax and enjoy the ride. I did and it was good. He buzzed through it like a mini-chain saw. But, this is still second to the Kegerator.

Now..back to my obsession with acquiring Love Up and Down.... peace out

Fistol - Raging Tide

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

Yes it happened. With Keg it "happens" all the time. That's the way he does it.
Oh, and to answer Adroit's comment, Keg usually has an old sin hanging around in the squad too. So, ima not dissin the sins here.

We were talking about 'nostalgia'. This is the best pve I ever saw and in an old fashioned squad like that, my presence is still appreciated.

There was another frost run that stands out in my mind. Almon took me in there one time. He told me just to relax and enjoy the ride. I did and it was good. He buzzed through it like a mini-chain saw. But, this is still second to the Kegerator.

Now..back to my obsession with acquiring Love Up and Down.... peace out

Wow, could you like take a video of that run? I think it will recieve a lot of youtube hits,
and every barb in the forum will be inspired to be the same as well.

the problem with doing things this way is that when you are fighting boss and everything together in the heads room, you run risk of the squad dying when hands spawn from the boss.

Pearlwood - Lost City

Fistol - Raging Tide wrote: »

Wow, could you like take a video of that run? I think it will recieve a lot of youtube hits,
and every barb in the forum will be inspired to be the same as well.

the problem with doing things this way is that when you are fighting boss and everything together in the heads room, you run risk of the squad dying when hands spawn from the boss.

Here's how it's done from my perspective. First, there is a line midway thru the room that the squad uses to run to a spot, while Keg is gathering the mobs. By taking the line, we don't aggro anything and it removes us to a certain point away from the boss. As Keg brings all the mobs to the boss, everybody but me moves in to attack. I immediately lay down an undined frenzied MS on the boss before any hands or minor bosses have time to appear. This usually destroys the mobs en masse and damages the boss. Then I move in close so a melee or the cleric can kill any hands appearing around our group. The boss is usually destroyed in a minute or two. We ignore harpies until after it is done.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

wizards are good in pvp and TW.. only class we really can't handle is good sins

fixed it for you.

And in tw, yes - wizards along with archers are probably one of the best and most fun.

And being able to "handle" other classes is different than saying wizards are "epic" or whatever was said earlier.

I don't think we have much disagreement.

Alex_Gantz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i really want to reach lvl100 to see if we s u c k that much.. so far I`m not having problems to find squads and I`m still wanted due to the fact that I can make more damage than any class at my lvl, I also have a lot of problems to run BHs without a Barb due to the aggro issuem I always end stealing aggro even from two Veno pets and a seeker (always talking about same lvl characters)... so.. i`m still waiting to be as bad as what you say Wizards can be...

Play as long as you are having fun - just don't put a lot of money into your wizard before you play at lvl 100 for a while - or you might regret it.

You don't do more damage in bh's unless you outgear/out level your party, or the people you play with don't know what they are doing, or you are jumping the boss and unload in the first 15 seconds, then sure, you'll pull aggro. Once people start hitting the boss, count to 10 then try your best - you likely won't pull aggro no matter how hard you try.

YOURLIEZ - Archosaur wrote: »

Idc what anyone says
Wizzy = best DPH DDs

I would like to say good point, however especially with sins deaden nerves and focused mind, dph in pk is less useful than it ever was. And dph is useless in pve for the most part.

So your point, even if true, is irrelevant.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

and then you see a sin do the same thing solo (and faster).. and wonder what the devs were thinking.

or a level 90 seeker b:chuckle All he needs is blood paint and like a dew of star protection or something.

At least the sin probably needs rank 9, or at least I hope so.

Fistol - Raging Tide wrote: »

the problem with doing things this way is that when you are fighting boss and everything together in the heads room, you run risk of the squad dying when hands spawn from the boss.

This is why its not done. My 97 barb with 14k hp could do it. The question is is whether or not the squad is good enough to kill everything and stop aoe in time. My experience with 90% of the hyper noobs running in frost squads these days? No way.

Pearlwood - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

This is why its not done. My 97 barb with 14k hp could do it. The question is is whether or not the squad is good enough to kill everything and stop aoe in time. My experience with 90% of the hyper noobs running in frost squads these days? No way.

Accurate enough (the last two sentences). To do it, the squad has to be willing to follow directions, and the barb has to have balls (to do it the first time). Timing is everything.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

. . . and the barb has to have balls (to do it the first time) . . . .

The barb ain't gonna be the one to die, ijs. I don't know any barb that would be afraid to do this. Not willing to wait the 20 mintues it takes for everyone to reset when it fails? Oh yes, I can think of lotsa barbs not willing to do that, but it has nothing to do with balls.

Pearlwood - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

The barb ain't gonna be the one to die, ijs. I don't know any barb that would be afraid to do this. Not willing to wait the 20 mintues it takes for everyone to reset when it fails? Oh yes, I can think of lotsa barbs not willing to do that, but it has nothing to do with balls.

If u do it right, it doesn't fail... is the point. Blood, don't speak on it if you haven't done it because u don't know. I know.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

If u do it right, it doesn't fail...

Really. That's sooooo profound. And I suppose if you go up, you don't go down? If you go left, you don't go right? Your intellect is truly dizzying.


No, the point is that you have a squad that did it and you think noone else does it because they don't have the "balls" or because your barb is oh so pro. And you are flat out wrong on both accounts. People don't do it for the reasons I have stated.

But go on, continue to be a legend in your own mind. It's hilarious.

PS - I have forgotten more about this game than you will ever know. And I don't know half of it, so just think what that says about what you "know".