Exclusion Reasons

tweakz

Many think that Wizards are being excluded because they fail as DDs. Realistically, they're mainly excluded from Nirvana because of their not so great 1-1 dd, but not just that.

What I see happening is not a hate for wizards for being fail DD's, but by being irresponsible DDs.

I don't know if they're trying to prove themselves, but when they seem to deliberately steal aggro on bosses like Peach Blossom Ritualist, it just pissess the rest of us off. There are multiple bosses and mobs that go into repeat AoE when range tanked. If you want to tank them: step up to them!

Casters have an advantage over melee. I know it, some deny it; but it's there. You can push and pull a mobs all over, but can you DD like 5 of us others? Save your f'kin Will of the Phoenix and Force of Will for soloing, tw, pvp, -PLEASE! -Or you can just wonder why we just stand there when you're getting whaled on by a mob or boss.

The best Nirvana runs I've had was with a wiz friend. My second Lv.100+ is a wiz. My first toon was that wiz. Wiz class sucks imho, but that's not why I'd exclude it from squads. It's along the lines of the same reason I'd exclude venos: because 9/10 are fail.

You're often more valuable just holding back. Steal aggro on a boss like PBR, and you're going on my **** list. Seriously, I'm no fan of the aps hype and know mages can be great dd in the right context.

lizrau

Troll....Please stop trolling, I'm really not in the mood for this **** tonight, kthxbai?

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear

lizrau wrote: »

Troll....Please stop trolling, I'm really not in the mood for this **** tonight, kthxbai?

If you know tweakz is a troll, why bother reading his threads knowing it's going to upset you...?

tweakz

lizrau wrote: »

Troll....Please stop trolling, I'm really not in the mood for this **** tonight, kthxbai?

WTH does this have to do with topic? Trolling is against TOS. To me: you are trolling. Your post has nothing to do with the topic. -Mods?

Rubblemancer - Sanctuary

The OP has a valid opinion, just as valid as anyone elses. Personal attacks don't belong.

ResMePls - Heavens Tear

Wizards are just as fail as veno's outside of TW. In pk they for some reason think blink-->gush will pwn every thing lol.Venos are just fail, no need to go into the reasons since they are to obvious....

Menarin - Dreamweaver

ResMePls - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wizards are just as fail as veno's outside of TW. In pk they for some reason think blink-->gush will pwn every thing lol.Venos are just fail, no need to go into the reasons since they are to obvious....

Every class is fail outside of TW in some way shape or form. Most people who play this game suck at their class, ijs.

Sin without stealth is fail. Strength build barb is fail. Wizard/Veno//Psy outside TW is fail. BM/Archer using solely fists is fail. Etc... the list/reasons goes on and on. We can Q_Q about it all day people, but I'd rather not waste anymore time then it takes to finish this senten

(Purposely cut that off for people who are too stupid to figure it out)

ResMePls - Heavens Tear

Menarin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Every class is fail outside of TW in some way shape or form. Most people who play this game suck at their class, ijs.

Sin without stealth is fail. Strength build barb is fail. Wizard/Veno//Psy outside TW is fail. BM/Archer using solely fists is fail. Etc... the list/reasons goes on and on. We can Q_Q about it all day people, but I'd rather not waste anymore time then it takes to finish this senten

(Purposely cut that off for people who are too stupid to figure it out)

Nah a +12 r9 psy outside TW who knows how to play their class is not fail(talking PvP here)b:shocked.

Adroit - Lost City

Menarin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Every class is fail outside of TW in some way shape or form. Most people who play this game suck at their class, ijs.

Sin without stealth is fail. Strength build barb is fail. Wizard/Veno//Psy outside TW is fail. BM/Archer using solely fists is fail. Etc... the list/reasons goes on and on. We can Q_Q about it all day people, but I'd rather not waste anymore time then it takes to finish this senten

(Purposely cut that off for people who are too stupid to figure it out)

uhmm no.

Hitori_Hanso - Sanctuary

Once upon a time Wizards knew how to control aggro. But with spam FCC lvling, and aps classes being virtual tanks these days, there is no need for us to hold back anymore. At this point, if a BH Abbadon lasts more then 15mins then its slow.

Veno isn't fail outside of PvP. Whoever says that is just stupid. I love Veno in Nirvana (in the 20 that I've done since getting 100 in October of last year). Their purge makes the buff boss easier, and their amps make me do somewhat decent damage.

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

they're mainly excluded from Nirvana because of their not so great 1-1 dd, but not just that.

i think this is exactly the point people want to know what can you contribute to the squad so in terms of rationality a wiz has nothing special o offer to justify the position in the squad

tweakz wrote: »

I don't know if they're trying to prove themselves, but when they seem to deliberately steal aggro on bosses like Peach Blossom Ritualist, it just pissess the rest of us off.

it is highly unlikely that a wiz steals aggro even in case of a crit because APS chars in the
squad outdmg the wiz by far. And even in a squad without aps chars the barb will get the aggro again in the next second by using aggro skills.

tweakz wrote: »

Casters have an advantage over melee. I know it, some deny it; but it's there. You can push and pull a mobs all over

forget about that on bosses and mobs in instances normal instance mobs normally resist the knockback of wop but fow works while on bosses neither of those 2 works

greetz harm0wnie

Pearlwood - Lost City

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i think this is exactly the point people want to know what can you contribute to the squad so in terms of rationality a wiz has nothing special o offer to justify the position in the squad

it is highly unlikely that a wiz steals aggro even in case of a crit because APS chars in the
squad outdmg the wiz by far. And even in a squad without aps chars the barb will get the aggro again in the next second by using aggro skills.

forget about that on bosses and mobs in instances normal instance mobs normally resist the knockback of wop but fow works while on bosses neither of those 2 works

greetz harm0wnie

I can take aggro from APS sins, without using any ultis or critting. This normally doesn't happen in frost, but high level HHs are very twitchy. Don't understand why, but it just happens. That may be part of the problem, because alot of these squads are going without barbs. When I'm in that type of squad, aggro is unstable, and it's usually not a matter of "stealing" (trust me, tanking 3-3 bosses is not on my agenda). This leads me to believe that aggro is based on DPH, not APS/DPS...but I could be wrong.

makenshi2227

all true... wizards are done... most can't play due to aps... most of the time mobs are dead before any wiz can get a spell off in fc's and bh's so they try to make up by spamming ulti's and whatever any chance they get to get a hit in and not seem totally useless..... and its all known hat in 1-1 DDing compared to aps classes there is jusy no comparison... i remember playing my wiz and a demon sparked aps sin killed off a 400k hp mob before i could let off SS... it was sad b:surrender

Adroit - Lost City

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

I can take aggro from APS sins, without using any ultis or critting. This normally doesn't happen in frost, but high level HHs are very twitchy. Don't understand why, but it just happens. That may be part of the problem, because alot of these squads are going without barbs. When I'm in that type of squad, aggro is unstable, and it's usually not a matter of "stealing" (trust me, tanking 3-3 bosses is not on my agenda). This leads me to believe that aggro is based on DPH, not APS/DPS...but I could be wrong.

There is no way you could take aggro from a high aps sin on a single target (assuming it isn't a physical immune target). Aggro is determined by damage output + special spells that add to aggro in different ways.

Pearlwood - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

There is no way you could take aggro from a high aps sin on a single target (assuming it isn't a physical immune target). Aggro is determined by damage output + special spells that add to aggro in different ways.

Tell that to Kracken last night. It was a nightmare in HH 3-3. I can hardly go in there without disturbing aggro. As a matter of fact, I try to avoid HH altogether because of it. Like I said, it doesn't seem to be a problem in Frost, but HH absolutely sucks for me.

Mortal_Kiss - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Many think that Wizards are being excluded because they fail as DDs. Realistically, they're mainly excluded from Nirvana because of their not so great 1-1 dd, but not just that.

What I see happening is not a hate for wizards for being fail DD's, but by being irresponsible DDs.

I don't know if they're trying to prove themselves, but when they seem to deliberately steal aggro on bosses like Peach Blossom Ritualist, it just pissess the rest of us off. There are multiple bosses and mobs that go into repeat AoE when range tanked. If you want to tank them: step up to them!

Casters have an advantage over melee. I know it, some deny it; but it's there. You can push and pull a mobs all over, but can you DD like 5 of us others? Save your f'kin Will of the Phoenix and Force of Will for soloing, tw, pvp, -PLEASE! -Or you can just wonder why we just stand there when you're getting whaled on by a mob or boss.

The best Nirvana runs I've had was with a wiz friend. My second Lv.100+ is a wiz. My first toon was that wiz. Wiz class sucks imho, but that's not why I'd exclude it from squads. It's along the lines of the same reason I'd exclude venos: because 9/10 are fail.

You're often more valuable just holding back. Steal aggro on a boss like PBR, and you're going on my **** list. Seriously, I'm no fan of the aps hype and know mages can be great dd in the right context.

BS. I have +8 neon purgatory and I'm not able to steal aggro form 5 APS class. I was lot of times in squad with even R9 wizards and they were also unable take aggro from 4-5APS when they have +10 weapons. Impossible in BH runs. Maybe just exception can be HH, because bosses have sealing so they seal APS and then you can steal aggro they also change attack targets. At normal bosses impossible.

Adroit - Lost City

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

Tell that to Kracken last night. It was a nightmare in HH 3-3. I can hardly go in there without disturbing aggro. As a matter of fact, I try to avoid HH altogether because of it. Like I said, it doesn't seem to be a problem in Frost, but HH absolutely sucks for me.

HH has several random aggro bosses, next time you're in there bring some 3x lowbie and watch it "take aggro" too.

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

HH has several random aggro bosses, next time you're in there bring some 3x lowbie and watch it "take aggro" too.

Either random aggro or a huge crit in the beginning ( before demon spark of the aps class) other than that i dont see any chance to get aggro

greetz harm0wnie

Pearlwood - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

HH has several random aggro bosses, next time you're in there bring some 3x lowbie and watch it "take aggro" too.

Prolly right. HH is unpredictable. In 3-3 (i'm pretty sure that was the one) I found that there is a group of mini-bosses (i forget the name) that throw fire magic. I was effective against those after I changed out my p-def belt for the r.8 ethereal belt and switched to fire shield just for that part of the run (could withstand the attack). As to the remainder of the run... an aggro grabbing nightmare (would have been best had I not fired at all).

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

This leads me to believe that aggro is based on DPH, not APS/DPS...but I could be wrong.

b:surprised

Fistol - Raging Tide

whats HH? I only know TTb:chuckle

Aps is a little bit tricky for most people..

but if the boss isnt random aggro, after an aps tank spark the aggro is sure to go their way like it or not.

Sin however has some difference,
this is mainly due to daggers not being as fast as fist

Sin using Fist has the ability to reach 5aps unspark with spare -0.05inv
Sin using dagger with -0.1 int is able to reach 4aps unspark
Sin using norm dagger without -int is able to reach 2.86 unspark->4 max (this is with all -int gear except weapon)

as you can see if the sin doesn't have the equipment needed
Aps drops significantly and sometimes the chain of constant attack can be broken by seal which result in perm spark breaking.

so there is a slight chance that you might grab aggro, if your "aps tank" isnt well gear and didnt know what to do.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

i know that problem OP has

when im tanking fc on my fishie and happen to have casters in squad they often start attacking before i finish sparking,
the buildup aggro by hitting 2 times to prevent healaggro is not enough,
i have to run up to the boss again since they attack from max range as well
half of my precious spark wasted, im ticking while i have aggro back in a few seconds and spark off - cleric still healing the half-dead caster

at least those squad-fc times are over soon xd

--


the other point of view is my wizard in Aba

1. i always run in front
2. i **** in every mob on my way
3. i ask: can i "pull" the boss? - and drop an aoe on the boss
4. my friends stopped dying on the fire boss and im sad when nobody dies there QQ
i loved those runs when wizards are the last ones standing not even ticking while all others die to aoe and BB fail lol



go in melee range on bosses damnit, your a wizard you have as much pdef as the BM! and attack from there ... wussies attack bosses ranged