Sage/ Demon

Athematis - Raging Tide

Nowim not asking which is better i just want to know what my options entitle soo What's the difference between a Sage and Demon Cleric post your opinions and Help me out here only got 16 more lvls to go before its my time to choose

LongWushi - Heavens Tear

I picked Demon for the attack skills as well as my two favorite healing skills (IH and Wellspring). Although, when in squads I have noticed an increase in Demon Clerics as I find them in squads, now, more than Sages.

Of course whenever I'm looking at choosing sage/demon for a character I go to ecatomb and vigorously compare everything. People tend to tell you think economically, about skills that you are more likely to come by, especially cheaply. I never took that into consideration simply because, it may take me a while, but I will get the skills I want.

_Nei_ - Sanctuary

The best way to decide is checking the sage/demon skills and decide wich ones do you like most and if you can afford the books to learn it.

I just vote Demon because I went demon, targets will love your demon IH, revive has faster channeling. I love do not need chi for purify.

But mostly of the cleric sage/demon good one skills are expensives.

Decus - Dreamweaver

Reasons I went demon:

Heals/Buffs:

IH - gives mana, but not a huge perk imo, but nice
Purify - no chi cost
SG - +150% mattk bonus on self for 10 secs regardless of target
SoR - temp +100% pdef bonus
could care less about lvl 11 res regardless of culti

Attacks/Debuffs:

PS - less channel/cooldown time, not a huge deal, but still nice
WT - 30% metal debuff on hit for 10 secs
Tempest - 25% chance to freeze anyone hit for 8 secs
Silent seal - no attk reduction on self
Sleep - no speed reduction on self

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

I went to etacomb and made a list like this one.


Sage

Revive
SKill
Skill


Demon

IH
Skill


I went down the list on each skill and wrote down which one I preferred for each skill. For example, I personally prefer sage revive over demon revive. Then when I was done, I just looked at which one had my more and made my decision based off that. There were a couple of skills that were bigger deals on the demon side (I prefer demon IH for example to Sage IH) but in the end I decided that since far more of the skills I actually use (IH not withstanding) I preferred the sage version for, so that's what I went with. Time will tell if it was a good decision but for clerics the popularity has swung back and forth between the two cultis because they are both pretty decent.

http://www.ecatomb.net/skillep.php

That link there shows you which skills have a demon/sage version and then what each one is.



Oh yeah and just respond to this if you want to see my list and why.

agarloth

It's weird to see people who says they went demon for IH

Daedallus - Sanctuary

As a Barb tank, I wuvs Demon IH b:chuckle

Jellytoast - Sanctuary

Haha, I love ho there are like no sage clerics here, because they seem like the majority.
Personally I went demon mostly for the revive and attack skills.

I usually catacleric in tw, and the half channeling on the res can be a huge difference.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Jellytoast - Sanctuary wrote: »

Haha, I love ho there are like no sage clerics here, because they seem like the majority.
Personally I went demon mostly for the revive and attack skills.

I usually catacleric in tw, and the half channeling on the res can be a huge difference.

I'm a sage cleric! b:shockedb:chuckle

Soira - Raging Tide

I went demon for the spark, revive, IH, stream, purify and plumeshell mostly XD

Sometimes people tell me that sage would've been a better choice for me, though I really don't believe that b:surrender

I was once in FC and our sin died by accident.He knew I have lvl 11 res, so...
Sin: "Lvl 11 res! "
Veno: "So, are you sage or demon?"
Me: "Demon."
Veno: "I like sage res."
Me: "Umm, why so? "
Veno: "Cause it's 0 exp loss."
Me: "Umm, demon res is 0 exp loss too b:surrender"
Veno: "Oh, really?Then I like lvl 11 res!"

In squad chat...
xxx: "So, Soi, why did you choose demon?"
Me: "Well, first of all, I like demon IH"
xxx: "What does it do?"
Me: "Recovers MP"
xxx: "Bah, sage is better, it heals more."
Me: "Everyone likes free mana ._. I also like purify, no chi needed to cast"
xxx: "Yeah, but sage has faster channeling, it's more usefull."
Me: ".___. Maybe, but it's useless if you have no chi to cast it ._. Also, if you need to purify a lot, you won't wake up with an empty chi bar ._."
xxx: "...I still think sage is better o.o"
Me: "Demon FTW Q_Q"

There is no "right" or "wrong" cultivation path when it comes to the cleric class.There are a few sage skills that, in my opinion, are better (like Vanguard and Magic Shell), but in the end, I like demon the most XD It all depends on your play style and what YOU want. :P

SoulPeace - Sanctuary

I've started this character around 2 years ago(More or less).

I picked Sage at 89,the Chi-gaining skill and the Damage Reduction from Triple Spark helped me surviving and having an over all easier time in FCC.

After I hit 100,I started to work on my Chrono(Had only OHT unlocked).
Its been now 2-3 months,I stopped at Delta Stage 5 for laziness,now Im almost done,I just need 2 Full Deltas,first for unlocking the last Chrono Map,secondly for completing my Cultivation.

Why bothering doing the Chrono and Cultivation?,because im planning to switch to Demon now.

Skills that made me took this decision are:

IH
Revive
Guardian Seal
Purify
Plume Shoot
SoR

Blaydewind - Raging Tide

I use a cleric alt (level 90 for now) to help out my faction and have picked demon mainly for its -chan reduction spark because I won't focus on getting the full -chan gear for it as I have my seeker main to worry about. The difference between demon/sage (at least in terms of healing/supporting squads) is really the playstyle that comes with it, imo. Sage is about further enhancing your already efficient heals/support, while demon adds utility to those heals/support. I'm no cleric expert, but I have lots of faction mates and friends who are on both sides.

Sage gives you chi skill, stronger IH, extra chromatic healing beam reach, stronger plume shell, distance revive, and bonuses to target buffs (like vanguard spirit, spirit's gift, etc). Sage clerics pretty much adapt a style of using target buffs for their neat bonuses. These are the main reasons to be a sage healer.

Demon gives you IH w/ mp recovery, SoR w/ defense buff, faster revive, no-chi purify, reduced chi plume shell, and utility to target buffs. Demon clerics develop a style of healing that becomes like the sage's target buffing strategy, only the heals are integrated with the bonuses. For example, if the squad is taking no heavy pressure, you can use IH to help restore mp even if the target's HP is full. You could use SoR as a precast for the tank before he goes into battle, so that he would have a defense bonus with a bit of pre-healing. Admittedly, the target buffs of demon are not as impressive as the sage ones, but they are more focused on mp recovery and giving casters more damage. It's also important to note that demon spark's faster channeling lets you spam these utility skills faster. These are the main reasons to be a demon healer.

I picked demon because I wasn't going to get the best channeling gear in the end (demon spark would suffice as the extra -chan), I'm terrible at multitasking target buffs with heals (preferring demon's integeration of both), I felt that the extra heal on IH was irrelevant when it already heals so well, and I never find myself needing sage's distance for revive (but rather, demon revive's speed).

Both paths are fairly balanced, having defense bonuses, mp recovery, and having some kind of powerful advantageous bonus on some skills. Find one that suits your playstyle. b:victory

Lylinn - Raging Tide

I went Demon because of the attack skills, IH, Purify and Revive b:cute
But if really depends on your playstyle b:victory

ILubby - Raging Tide

I went sage because:
Purify - faster, chi isn't a problem to me
IH - heals a lot more, I could care less if I heal someone's mp, srsly..bring your own pots and 300 mana isn't gonna make a difference to me
Sage spark - gotta love the damage reduction
Sage Vanguard Spirit and Magic Shell - makes up for demon SoR and cheaper, endless - channeling
Plume Shell - absorbs more
CHB - more range
Wellspring Surge - faster
The lovely 50 chi every minute sage skill ofc XD

The only thing I like in demon is the Plume Shot and Revive, I had to sacrifice them cuz...they aren't useful for a solo cleric.

LongWushi - Heavens Tear

ILubby - Raging Tide wrote: »

I went sage because:
Purify - faster, chi isn't a problem to me
IH - heals a lot more, I could care less if I heal someone's mp, srsly..bring your own pots and 300 mana isn't gonna make a difference to me
Sage spark - gotta love the damage reduction
Sage Vanguard Spirit and Plume Shell - makes up for demon SoR and cheaper, endless - channeling
CHB - more range
The lovely 50 chi every minute sage skill ofc XD

The only thing I like in demon is the Plume Shot and Revive, I had to sacrifice them cuz...they aren't useful for a solo cleric.

Demon Plume Shot isn't a reason to choose sage or demon. Plume Shot on a whole is a weak skill. Of my three most commonly used skills I like Weild Thunder and Cyclone. Cyclone is almost able to spam, but has a slightly longer cool down. Both of those skills have way better damage than Plume Shot.

As a Demon cleric I don't have a problem with chi either. IH MP bonus is nice and I would think the tank would appreciate it too. Tanking classes tend to have an awful time with MP. Too bad self-casting doesn't negate the cost or increase the MP. Honestly, I like my demon spark more. If people need CHB then they shouldn't stand so far away. If they're on the far side of a room from you 5m won't make a difference. All of the 30min buffs can be channeled endlessly unless you're talking about the increase in channel speed from Magic Shell. Honestly don't see those used much except in rare instances.

ILubby - Raging Tide

LongWushi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Demon Plume Shot isn't a reason to choose sage or demon. Plume Shot on a whole is a weak skill. Of my three most commonly used skills I like Weild Thunder and Cyclone. Cyclone is almost able to spam, but has a slightly longer cool down. Both of those skills have way better damage than Plume Shot.

As a Demon cleric I don't have a problem with chi either. IH MP bonus is nice and I would think the tank would appreciate it too. Tanking classes tend to have an awful time with MP. Too bad self-casting doesn't negate the cost or increase the MP. Honestly, I like my demon spark more. If people need CHB then they shouldn't stand so far away. If they're on the far side of a room from you 5m won't make a difference. All of the 30min buffs can be channeled endlessly unless you're talking about the increase in channel speed from Magic Shell. Honestly don't see those used much except in rare instances.

o.o I didn't choose culti depending on the Plume Shot... I chose it while deciding which culti has the majority of skills that I like. The list was the skills that I really like and thinking that upgrading them would really help pve wise.
If you care about others MP, well good for you.
I can make up for the -channeling I could get from the demon spark by the sage Magic Shell (although the spark gives more -channeling) and yes I was talking about the MS in my list ( I realized I made a typo lol sorry).
I like the extra range on CHB in the case of aoe bosses where I need to stand far back. 5 metres can come in handy.
People already said it depends on playstyle, so if you don't use these skills regularly, others do although I don't really understand how Purify, Wellspring Surge, buffs, IH, Plume Shell, CHB are used rarely o.o

LongWushi - Heavens Tear

ILubby - Raging Tide wrote: »

People already said it depends on playstyle, so if you don't use these skills regularly, others do although I don't really understand how Purify, Wellspring Surge, buffs, IH, Plume Shell, CHB are used rarely o.o

Purify I only use in dungeons or bosses. Surge I use all the time as well as the buffs, but not always the 30minute ones. IH is a duh, but I almost never use Plume Shell. CHB I only use in dungeons (BH, FF, or TT). CHB is a mana drainer, all of the heals are.

ILubby - Raging Tide

LongWushi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Purify I only use in dungeons or bosses. Surge I use all the time as well as the buffs, but not always the 30minute ones. IH is a duh, but I almost never use Plume Shell. CHB I only use in dungeons (BH, FF, or TT). CHB is a mana drainer, all of the heals are.

The usage of Purify in dungeons and bosses is fairly enough, you're free if you don't wanna aoe grind poison spiders xD
The usage of lvl 11 buffs is optional yet neat in combat, I find sage VS very useful when I solo melee bosses. Also it is good to keep on whoever is tanking a melee boss. Same goes for sage MS if your tank is a mage and so many other uses.
Plume Shell is highly used when you solo bosses, but I agree it's rarely used in instances when you only heal.
CHB is a mana drainer yea but demon one is gonna cost you the same amount of mp, its main use is for aoe bosses but I can't see the alternative for it other than BB which isn't smart in all cases. I wasn't talking about spamming CHB or any other skill, I was talking about the potential of an advanced skill.

Blaydewind - Raging Tide

I honestly would have gone sage if my cleric was my main. I'm more of a swordsman player, though (note seeker avatar). b:chuckle

My close cleric friend is a sage cleric, and I love having her around when we have monsters to kill b:sin. She enjoys her class so much, even using the buff bonuses in combat. She's as obsessed as I am about my seeker when it comes to collecting sage skills, too.

Jellytoast - Sanctuary

The reason I like demon SoR over sage vanguard is because buffing people in the middle of a fight takes away from my healing time, but SoR is a buff and heal all in one. Just thought I'd throw my opinion in since you guys were talking about sage vanguard.

agarloth

LongWushi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As a Demon cleric I don't have a problem with chi either. IH MP bonus is nice and I would think the tank would appreciate it too. Tanking classes tend to have an awful time with MP.

Triple spark drains mana a lot....

truekossy

agarloth wrote: »

Triple spark drains mana a lot....

Try tanking large amounts of mobs with SoV from a high soulforce psy on you. Kinda annoying to have to keep potting just to have the MP to use even basic skills when on a HA char doing that.

Baby_pho - Heavens Tear

its all depends on your playing style. both sage and demon have their good quality. i went demon for the revive, sor, spirit's gift, silent/chromatic seal, chromatic heal, the faster cool downs of skills, crit added from mastery, added dmg from cyclone... but there are good points on being a sage cleric too.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

I chose demon for a few reasons, but I think clerics have an honest culti choice where both options are valid. Barbs, BMs, Psychics, (archers?) don't really have a culti option. Some of my thoughts on the culti are:

Sage chi skill is nice, but I never used it on my sin because I couldn't take the time to stop and channel it. Clerics are even slower, I'd rather have Cloud Eruption on my genie for 3 times the chi. Also, in pk the demon skill can remove chi twice as quick as a sage can put it on (every 30 seconds). Clerics are squishy and this is great for supressing ultimate attacks.

Demon IH vs. Sage IH. As a barb and a BM I notice demon IH and I love it. I never have a problem with IH barely not being strong enough. It either is strong enough, or it is nowhere near strong enough because I am 1 or 2 shot by a boss. That being said, Sage IH is considerably stronger at 15-25% more heal based on your weapon.

Demon vs Sage rez. Demon prevents squad wipes because when your real tank goes down and you have a temporary tank you cant spend 7 seconds not healing your substitute tank just to get your temporary tank back up. Sage rez is more geared at rezzing people after a squad wipe when the mobs have reset around them, imo.

Dimensional/Elemntal Seals. I attack and heal as a cleric, but rather than attack most the time I debuff for the real DDers. Sage has better seals, almost changed my culti choice.

Stream of Rejuvination. SoR and IH stack. I hate SoR and 99% of the time would rather cast an IH, but its extremely useful as a buff to increase defense. Sage vanguard does the same thing but only lasts 10 seconds.

Purify. Sage. Never had a problem with chi because spamming my tank, attacking, and debuffing builds plenty of it.

Silent/Chromatic skill. I have issues with the unpredicatability of these skills. "Mob will be paralyzed 'up to' ..." This means it may only last a second. I know the laws of probability mean that increasing the length of the seal possibility increases the probability that they'll be stunned longer, but I'd rather just not be debuffed myself on a level 10 skill. Demon wins for me.

Razor Feathers/Siren's Kiss. Demon, the spammability is nice and Siren's hits hard.

Lastly, I prefer demon cleric's for reasons stated above. I notice my demon clerics and love them. My sage clerics I don't notice as much because their skills don't standout as being lvl 11, so I asked in barb forums which they prefer. 12/12 responses were they preferred demon. That made up my mind.

Zvyn - Heavens Tear

agarloth wrote: »

Triple spark drains mana a lot....

b:laugh Lol what? Demon spark on magic classes adds MP. Sage sparks adds HP.

truekossy

Zvyn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:laugh Lol what? Demon spark on magic classes adds MP. Sage sparks adds HP.

Both sparks add MP on casters aside from veno. >_>;

Nemyx - Dreamweaver

Honestly, if I'm going to spend 20mil+ on a skill, like IH, I would rather spend the money where it benefit the squad keeping everyone alive than benefiting just the tank on their stupid mana...They can spend the money on their own damn pots in my opinion. I hear tanks preferring demon clerics based on the demon IH because of the mana bonus which in turns saves them money; selfish in my opinion b:surrender. However, if you want to waste the mana and money to heal a tanks mana then kudos to you b:chuckle. I find the sage IH (and sage wellspring) is better when dealing with aggro stealers or multiple people tanking which I find happening every time I step foot in an instance x.x. I rarely find a tank needing mana, and 300 mana in my opinion is too much of a waste to spam on non mag classes considering the cost of the mana to cast it. I do; however, like the demon rez, but I found I can make up for that with the -chan gear that I have. I have yet to get the sage rez, but during my course of playing, I find more need for the sage rez (with the increased distance) than for the demon rez (usually some noob trying to play leroy Jenkins b:angry). Keeping people alive during fights, especially aggro stealers, is no problem for me b:pleased

Oh, and sage IH definitely makes it easier to multitask DDing and healing b:victory. Pop two or three sage IH and they're good for a while

lizrau

Sage. Unless you wanna be weird(,fail), and go LA, then go Demon ^^

Furries - Dreamweaver

demon is better for the most part. atleast once they get full access to skill.

sage clerics are very nice before 99 though as they can get the def buff early on from sage vanguard and not waiting for demon stream.

sage can also with triple spark for extra defense as every little bit helps.

but overall in the majority of cases demon is better.
and if you dont have much $ for skillbooks demon will shine with the - channeling on spark until u can afford to get the books.

i used to say sage cleric was bad, but as i look more closely they gap isn't as vast as i thought it was. yes demon is still better but sage can still shine is certain situations.

the choice is yours

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Nemyx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Honestly, if I'm going to spend 20mil+ on a skill, like IH, I would rather spend the money where it benefit the squad keeping everyone alive than benefiting just the tank on their stupid mana...They can spend the money on their own damn pots in my opinion. I hear tanks preferring demon clerics based on the demon IH because of the mana bonus which in turns saves them money; selfish in my opinion b:surrender.

Sure, mage classes have skills that cost 400 mana a cost and having 10k mp but burn mana like no ones business, but they also recover mana at 70-90 mp a second.

My barb has something like 1450 mp and the average skill costs around 200. I can't even buff myself fully without having to pot, and my recovery rate is 4 mp/sec. I use a whole lot more mana playing my barb than I do on my cleric because I need to pot every 4-5 skills and it sucks when I am "surprised" by not having mana because I used a skill that drained 1/3 my mp bar and now need to roar to save my cleric and realize I'm out of mp because I haven't potted in the last 4 seconds.

Just saying, it really helps know I will constantly have mana for my skills. If I'm not worried about what my mp I can worry about other things.... like keeping aggro, mob control, killing stuff. Basically, you'd be lending me your mp recovery rate by IHing me.

Your argument has been made about level 11 revive, too. "It doesn't help me," "It costs too much so if they want it they should pay for it," and "they're selfish to expect me to pay for something I can't use." All I can say is it makes you more valuable as a cleric and you will have your choice of tanks. If I have the option of a good cleric with demon IH and a good cleric without, I'd go for the cleric with demon IH. Proness squads with proness, so pick your squads. You might get lucky and find desperate squads for any cleric, though.

Decus - Dreamweaver

lizrau wrote: »

Sage. Unless you wanna be weird(,fail), and go LA, then go Demon ^^

How does LA endear one to Demon?

I say Demon, because I am biased.