Genie Spark Amp

Adroit - Lost City

I think just about everyone knows that genie spark is an amazing amp, but for those that were curious how much it really does amp (and on which targets it is the most effective) I figured I'd do a little of my own testing. To be perfectly honest, I don't quite understand how the debuff is calculated and whatnot, so I went ahead and tested it in game recording the resistances + % reduction and did the amp calculation from that. So for anyone that is interested..

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CN-3hpEJ&hl=en&key=tauRiuICfJ949xXxQSgn8_w&rm=full&authkey=CN-3hpEJ#gid=0

*WARNING* wall of numbers in that link XD

Arenaceous - Lost City

Interesting results, thank you for the testing.

A first interpretation of the results I came up with is that the full amp (Undine + high dex spark) gets more effective the more mdef your opponent has - till a certain threshold. Targets with very high def, such as marrowed + cleric buffed BMs or cleric buffed endgame wizards seem to get amped far lower.
Apparently, there are two factors involved:

1.) The higher the magdef, the higher the chunk that gets taken off, since it is a percental reduction.

2.) The amp gets significantly better the lower it reduces the magdef. The higher the magdef at the beginning the harder it is to get the reduction down, since it is hard to take away an additional percent of reduction in the low mdef area: The Demon BM that starts at 43% ends at 0%, marrowed he starts at 65% but ends at 43% - a far smaller difference.

It is also interesting, that the amp on targets with high def lvl (R9) is extraordinary good. I have no real explanation for that tho. It may be the fact that def level works similar to a "second" resistance.

Mortal_Kiss - Heavens Tear

Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »

Interesting results, thank you for the testing.

A first interpretation of the results I came up with is that the full amp (Undine + high dex spark) gets more effective the more mdef your opponent has - till a certain threshold. Targets with very high def, such as marrowed + cleric buffed BMs or cleric buffed endgame wizards seem to get amped far lower.
Apparently, there are two factors involved:

1.) The higher the magdef, the higher the chunk that gets taken off, since it is a percental reduction.

2.) The amp gets significantly better the lower it reduces the magdef. The higher the magdef at the beginning the harder it is to get the reduction down, since it is hard to take away an additional percent of reduction in the low mdef area: The Demon BM that starts at 43% ends at 0%, marrowed he starts at 65% but ends at 43% - a far smaller difference.

It is also interesting, that the amp on targets with high def lvl (R9) is extraordinary good. I have no real explanation for that tho. It may be the fact that def level works similar to a "second" resistance.

This game is big mess in many way. There is no official guide how all this things works. Every player has to figure out everything alone.b:angry

Adroit - Lost City

Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »

Interesting results, thank you for the testing.

A first interpretation of the results I came up with is that the full amp (Undine + high dex spark) gets more effective the more mdef your opponent has - till a certain threshold. Targets with very high def, such as marrowed + cleric buffed BMs or cleric buffed endgame wizards seem to get amped far lower.
Apparently, there are two factors involved:

1.) The higher the magdef, the higher the chunk that gets taken off, since it is a percental reduction.

2.) The amp gets significantly better the lower it reduces the magdef. The higher the magdef at the beginning the harder it is to get the reduction down, since it is hard to take away an additional percent of reduction in the low mdef area: The Demon BM that starts at 43% ends at 0%, marrowed he starts at 65% but ends at 43% - a far smaller difference.

It is also interesting, that the amp on targets with high def lvl (R9) is extraordinary good. I have no real explanation for that tho. It may be the fact that def level works similar to a "second" resistance.

I didn't include def level at all in my spreadsheet :P It has no bearing on the amp percentages at all xD I think it's also good to notice that its not just how much mdef you have, its how you get it that determines the debuff/amp %. For example, many targets with cleric buffs still had lower resists than others unbuffed.. yet the debuffs almost always lowered a cleric buffed target less than an unbuffed target.

It was also really interesting to see the -int LA vs the full r9 LA.. full r9 had over 6k mdef unbuffed.. -int had a little under 4k, yet after debuffs the -int ended up having slightly higher resists while fully debuffed. I'm guessing this either has to do with the +4% resists on nv armor or more likely the extra ~50vit that the -int sin had. It seems like vit/mag increase mdef in a different way than gear.. which somehow affects the way we reduce their resistances xD

Nurfed_You - Harshlands

I love the spreadsheet, and i've been tossing around the idea of getting spark for a while. Now im definately going to get it.

Arenaceous - Lost City

I got the solution.

Take a character with 1000 mdef unbuffed and another with 1600 mdef. Cleric buffs make char number 1 1600 mdef by adding 60% mdef. Now we undine both. What we would expect is both chars dropping to 640 mdef. While that is true in case 2, case only drops to 1000 mdef. It's because the -60% from undine count as a normal buff and basically cancels out the 60% from the cleric buff.

Your numbers support this claim. If Undine cancels out the cleric buffs, spark reduces the base def the usual way after. That means undine + spark on cleric buffed targets should be the same as spark on unbuffed. This is actually the case:

Mdef of your unbuffed BM with spark (90 dex): 337
Mdef of the same BM buffed with spark and undine (90 dex): 337

It's the same for all other chars too

DaichiOni - Dreamweaver

Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »

I got the solution.

Take a character with 1000 mdef unbuffed and another with 1600 mdef. Cleric buffs make char number 1 1600 mdef by adding 60% mdef. Now we undine both. What we would expect is both chars dropping to 640 mdef. While that is true in case 2, case only drops to 1000 mdef. It's because the -60% from undine count as a normal buff and basically cancels out the 60% from the cleric buff.

Your numbers support this claim. If Undine cancels out the cleric buffs, spark reduces the base def the usual way after. That means undine + spark on cleric buffed targets should be the same as spark on unbuffed. This is actually the case:

Mdef of your unbuffed BM with spark (90 dex): 337
Mdef of the same BM buffed with spark and undine (90 dex): 337

It's the same for all other chars too

say wut?

+1 post count!

lizrau

Math...Hurts..My head....

Adroit - Lost City

Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »

I got the solution.

Take a character with 1000 mdef unbuffed and another with 1600 mdef. Cleric buffs make char number 1 1600 mdef by adding 60% mdef. Now we undine both. What we would expect is both chars dropping to 640 mdef. While that is true in case 2, case only drops to 1000 mdef. It's because the -60% from undine count as a normal buff and basically cancels out the 60% from the cleric buff.

Your numbers support this claim. If Undine cancels out the cleric buffs, spark reduces the base def the usual way after. That means undine + spark on cleric buffed targets should be the same as spark on unbuffed. This is actually the case:

Mdef of your unbuffed BM with spark (90 dex): 337
Mdef of the same BM buffed with spark and undine (90 dex): 337

It's the same for all other chars too

you're right that buffs cancel, but how do you explain undine (-60%) and 90 dex genie spark (-93%) not taking someone down to 0 fire def? Just look at the 102 wizard with full r9 at the bottom of the spreadsheet. The debuffs bring him down a ton, but not to 0%.. just like undine doesn't bring the target's resists down by exactly 60%. I can only assume vit/mag somehow enter into this equation, but I'm not sure exactly how

Adroit - Lost City

I'm kinda surprised there wasn't much interest in this, perhaps I should have posted in the archer forums with a title like "HAHA u have metal skillz!" I guess I still could b:cute

Saeidon - Heavens Tear

Very interested in this! But haven't been on the forums much the last few days.

Thanks for the table, its going to make for some interesting reading.

TheJackal - Heavens Tear

Mortal_Kiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This game is big mess in many way. There is no official guide how all this things works. Every player has to figure out everything alone.b:angry

Makes you not be so lazy in a game.

Nurfed_You - Harshlands

+1 to this thread, gogo wizzie math.....hopefully the archers wont invade lol

Scalpel - Lost City

How good maxed "Spark" + 100dex for Blade Tempest skill? Or does it only worth for pyrograms?

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »

I love the spreadsheet, and i've been tossing around the idea of getting spark for a while. Now im definately going to get it.

Me too, but I couldn't get a second genie good enough, but last week I got one to 75/80 lp, so thats my new dex genie. I am far to reliant on CE, Domain, etc. to use that exclusively, but will be fun to play around with.

This is a nice addition. Too bad in 2 months time it will be lost in the morass of information that is this forum.