Cleric vs. Mystic (PvP & PvE)

SaiKun - Harshlands

I was very excited about making a battle cleric and started building genies and skills. I also built her to be exceptional in squads too.
Today, however, I had a mystic in squad and the entire time it seemed that I was not needed. I didn't look at her gear, but I assumed she had average gear (she was wearing fashion). She out healed me but couldn't outdamage me. Healing is my main job in a squad so I felt more than a little depressed. If I DDd, I always pulled aggro, regardless of whoever was hitting the mob first. She would heal me if this happend, my own heals not getting the job done.
I've always been a very good cleric, noone has called me fail. I've always been first pick and always the main cleric in a squad.
The question is, should I stick with my battle cleric? Or break down and start all over with a mystic?


Demon Battle Cleric : http://pwcalc.com/33729b157b7637e0
Demon Mystic (without pet buffs) : http://pwcalc.com/c66308e3b56b0b15

Although Mag. attack is lower, that doesn't include the pet buffs and the flowers....
Pretty depressing...

Edit : The PvP part of this is the calcs. Please help me to determine this as I am not sure.
My build is 50 vit 54 mag and the rest magic. I plan on PvPing with her, that is why I call her a battle cleric.

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear

That's up to you, really. I would say stick with your cleric. Things get harder at later levels and people will prefer a cleric over a mystic, just for security, even if a mystic CAN do the job.

If Mystics seem appealing to you due to their play style, then go for it, but I wouldn't start one just because you feel like they're making you useless right now. That will change later on.

ETA: Yea, that's all from a PvE perspective. Nothing to say about PvP.. I *think* clerics would be better, but I have nothing to back that up with. lol

Futurelord - Dreamweaver

There is no such thing as a battle cleric, Only vit and mag. While pure magic classes are the easiest to kill they are also the ones considered the best "Healers" of the clerics, but also it makes them the best DDs. Pure vit are alot harder to kill because of the amount of vit they have endgame, while their heals SHOULD be at or above the level to keep others alive it will not be overly high or powerful.

There are hybrid builds with a little vit and some mag, those are clerics who will still die quickly if they take on too much but will not die as quickly as the pure magic counterpart. The damage will be moderate so they are unlikely to take aggro most of the time.

(Other classes dont have cleric healing ability so often take the pure mag path so they can kill something before it kills them, aka more damage, makes it hard to out DD them.)

As far as healing goes, you have the better heals simply cause of the spamibility of them. Their best healing plant requires a spark while their other one is too weak to keep most people alive. Their normal healing skills is faster then wellspring and is spammable but is unable to stack heal and is not powerful enough to keep someone like a barb alive during a powerful boss.

lizrau

I personally like Mystic better, but I acknowledge Clerics are better than us in healing, and always will be. We are just a support, soloing class when need be.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

i think you should study how to obtain the gear and the costs first.

altho..
what i find weird,.. what level was the mystic?
you said when you DD-ed you always took aggro out of everyone in the group? healing is based on the same stats so i dont see why your heals would be severely out-healed.

SaiKun - Harshlands

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

i think you should study how to obtain the gear and the costs first.

altho..
what i find weird,.. what level was the mystic?
you said when you DD-ed you always took aggro out of everyone in the group? healing is based on the same stats so i dont see why your heals would be severely out-healed.

The mystic was two levels lower than I was. She could heal more in one spell but I could deal out twice the damage she could b:surrender

Edit : My IH is level 10 btw

lizrau

She probably wasn't healing MORE per se..but healing faster than you were. IDK though.

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver

lizrau wrote: »

She probably wasn't healing MORE per se..but healing faster than you were. IDK though.

^ that

ZAPATON - Sanctuary

lizrau wrote: »

She probably wasn't healing MORE per se..but healing faster than you were. IDK though.

^ This. The mystics' first heal, Break in the clouds, works like wellspring surge does for clerics. Try healing with that one, you'll get a large amount healed in an instant. However, just like with Break in the clouds , the healing only happens in that instant, and not over time, and so it can't stack with more casts of the same heal. The ability to keep healing over time and stacking effects with more casts of the same heal are what make IH such a great heal, much better than both wellspring and break in the clouds. I hope this doesn't confuse you b:pleased

Futurelord - Dreamweaver

ZAPATON - Sanctuary wrote: »

^ This. The mystics' first heal, Break in the clouds, works like wellspring surge does for clerics. Try healing with that one, you'll get a large amount healed in an instant. However, just like with Break in the clouds , the healing only happens in that instant, and not over time, and so it can't stack with more casts of the same heal. The ability to keep healing over time and stacking effects with more casts of the same heal are what make IH such a great heal, much better than both wellspring and break in the clouds. I hope this doesn't confuse you b:pleased

b:cryWhy are my post always ignored.b:cry

lizrau

'Cuz I'm cooler and gave the answer in one sentence QQ.

/Iloveyoubutmyanswersaresimpler

Lady_Sila - Lost City

I play both a cleric and a mystic. Clerics are #1 at healing, mystics are good for support. Also, mystics don't have a purify like a cleric does. b:cute

lizrau

Sage BiTC FTW...IK low purify chance..but we still "have" it xD! Like I said, Clerics beat us everywhere in the way of heals.

ZAPATON - Sanctuary

Futurelord - Dreamweaver wrote: »

b:cryWhy are my post always ignored.b:cry

Its the name. Waiting for the future to read b:pleased

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear

Lady_Sila - Lost City wrote: »

I play both a cleric and a mystic. Clerics are #1 at healing, mystics are good for support. Also, mystics don't have a purify like a cleric does. b:cute

Considering how fast sage BitC casts, I'd say it's a pretty reliable purify.

Astraea - Raging Tide

SaiKun - Harshlands wrote: »

I was very excited about making a battle cleric and started building genies and skills. I also built her to be exceptional in squads too.
Today, however, I had a mystic in squad and the entire time it seemed that I was not needed. I didn't look at her gear, but I assumed she had average gear (she was wearing fashion). She out healed me but couldn't outdamage me. Healing is my main job in a squad so I felt more than a little depressed. If I DDd, I always pulled aggro, regardless of whoever was hitting the mob first. She would heal me if this happend, my own heals not getting the job done.
I've always been a very good cleric, noone has called me fail. I've always been first pick and always the main cleric in a squad.
The question is, should I stick with my battle cleric? Or break down and start all over with a mystic?


Demon Battle Cleric : http://pwcalc.com/33729b157b7637e0
Demon Mystic (without pet buffs) : http://pwcalc.com/c66308e3b56b0b15

Although Mag. attack is lower, that doesn't include the pet buffs and the flowers....
Pretty depressing...

Edit : The PvP part of this is the calcs. Please help me to determine this as I am not sure.
My build is 50 vit 54 mag and the rest magic. I plan on PvPing with her, that is why I call her a battle cleric.

as alrdy stated on the above posts that clerics will heal better albeit mystics healing more per skill

however just wanted to state that ur comparison using those builds is waay more in favor of cleric as u used r9 wep on cleric and only nirvana g13 on mystic

heres your cleric unbuffed
and heres mystic with equivalent gear also unbuffed

as u can see with equivalent gear, mystic Will have slightly more damage altho cleric will obviously be better healer since IH's heal over time stacks

SaiKun - Harshlands

Astraea - Raging Tide wrote: »

as alrdy stated on the above posts that clerics will heal better albeit mystics healing more per skill

however just wanted to state that ur comparison using those builds is waay more in favor of cleric as u used r9 wep on cleric and only nirvana g13 on mystic

heres your cleric unbuffed
and heres mystic with equivalent gear also unbuffed

as u can see with equivalent gear, mystic Will have slightly more damage altho cleric will obviously be better healer since IH's heal over time stacks

Oh I didn't see the mystics R9, but that makes me even more sad. Mystic still outpowers a cleric b:cry
Anyone know any good mystic guilds b:surrender

BiWinning - Heavens Tear

I am rolling a pure mage Mystic, I was in a BH59 yesterday with a 70 cleric n 76 cleric. I was 72. The tank had 9k HP n it really seemed like the 70 cleric healing could not handle it, she was spam healing and spam healing but never was his HP ever full. 1 Heal from her was not enough to bring him to full hp from just over half. She said her heals where maxed? I don't claim Mystics are better at healing but the combo of

Healing Herb + Vital + BITC + Falling Petals on tank can't be denied as a great healing combo. I out did the cleric seeing as my BITC was bringing the 9k tank to max hp every time. Also why are you all making these lil comparisons with giving them VIT..Vit on a mystic is LOL.

Don't re-roll because you got out done, if you are re-rolling for that reason, make a sin like every other failure that got out-did at one point.

Asthariel - Dreamweaver

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Considering how fast sage BitC casts, I'd say it's a pretty reliable purify.

^ This. Not AS reliable as a Cleric's Purify, but it's still decent. And pls stop whoever was comparing Break in the Cloud to Wellspring.
Lets compare the two sage versions of the skills (eventhough my mystic is sage while my cleric is demon, but well).
BitC: 0.5 sec chan/ 0.5 sec cast
Wellspring: 1.2 sec chan/ 1 sec cast.

As for the healing power of them, Mystics have more room for improvement with gears and magic points since:
BitC: 400 HP + 35% basic magic attack
Wellspring: 650 HP +25% basic magic attack.

So, more healing power and muuuch faster casting.
I have 10.6k-13k magic attack unbuffed and -45% channeling. Imagine 35% of this magic attack +400 HP with almost 0.25 sec of channeling and the Purify proc on it. See, my heal is totally enough. So, healing with this skill isn't like a cleric who would spam Wellspring. Not to mention both of my plants (constant aoe heals) and Falling Petals which heals over time. All these heal hard enough to allow me to DD while keeping everyone at max HP almost everywhere without needing a cleric. I've tried many "endgame" instances as only healer, and the only place where I needed to throw in a few heals in addition of my plants and the HoT was in 3-2 (since the plants were getting killed by Emperor <.<).

Honestly a good geared Mystic can solo heal almost anything except places were BB is really needed for the damage reduction. And this isn't really many places since BB is often used either cause the Cleric wanna do it the lazy way, or to provide a constant aoe heal because of certain aoes (which plants can outdo, often).

We're not better or worse than Clerics, we just do it a different way with different skills. The result is the same: the squad is alive.

N.B: as for the DD part, when I have a skill that does around 90k non crit, I don't call it being a bad DD, ijs... Most of my other skills hit in the 30k-40k range.

FrostSwallow - Sanctuary

can't believe cleric does more damage as a mystic...

character builds: you give a G16 +12 weapon to the cleric and a G13 +12 weapon to the mystic not surprising the base matk of the cleric is higher... and mystic skill casts faster which will increase dps

erosannin

Futurelord - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There is no such thing as a battle cleric, Only vit and mag. While pure magic classes are the easiest to kill they are also the ones considered the best "Healers" of the clerics, but also it makes them the best DDs. Pure vit are alot harder to kill because of the amount of vit they have endgame, while their heals SHOULD be at or above the level to keep others alive it will not be overly high or powerful.

There are hybrid builds with a little vit and some mag, those are clerics who will still die quickly if they take on too much but will not die as quickly as the pure magic counterpart. The damage will be moderate so they are unlikely to take aggro most of the time.

(Other classes dont have cleric healing ability so often take the pure mag path so they can kill something before it kills them, aka more damage, makes it hard to out DD them.)

As far as healing goes, you have the better heals simply cause of the spamibility of them. Their best healing plant requires a spark while their other one is too weak to keep most people alive. Their normal healing skills is faster then wellspring and is spammable but is unable to stack heal and is not powerful enough to keep someone like a barb alive during a powerful boss.

I guess you have never been in a party with a full Magic full Rank 9 cleric with all +10 or higher gear. On my cleric i have over 12.2k hp fully buffed, 40 def lvl and over 9.4k pdef with demon bell. most of my gear is sloted with Flawless cit gems due to the fact of cost of r9 and +10. but none the less a cleric that is build for END game as you speak of should never have any vit. they should be pure magic.

but ofc End game is not +10 gear either so there for your speaking more hp with +12 gear and more pdef with better neckless. needless to say, if you bad at farming/merchin/dont Cash shop. then yeah your gonna be a vit build cleric. but most of the clerics that have been around long enough to know how to farm with 1 5 aps BM/SIN will never need any vit due to the fact of their gear being good.

endlesstorture

if your thinking of spending that much money on a toon just make a rank 9 sin ,jeez

Futurelord - Dreamweaver

erosannin wrote: »

I guess you have never been in a party with a full Magic full Rank 9 cleric with all +10 or higher gear. On my cleric i have over 12.2k hp fully buffed, 40 def lvl and over 9.4k pdef with demon bell. most of my gear is sloted with Flawless cit gems due to the fact of cost of r9 and +10. but none the less a cleric that is build for END game as you speak of should never have any vit. they should be pure magic.

but ofc End game is not +10 gear either so there for your speaking more hp with +12 gear and more pdef with better neckless. needless to say, if you bad at farming/merchin/dont Cash shop. then yeah your gonna be a vit build cleric. but most of the clerics that have been around long enough to know how to farm with 1 5 aps BM/SIN will never need any vit due to the fact of their gear being good.

The solution is simple. There was never a problem in the first place lol.

I mean honestly, you cant compare a mystic wearing that kinda gear without also considering the cleric wearing the same thing, its just one sided and unfair otherwise. Who survives 101 levels to get their hands on that kinda gear without early vit anyway? (Say anything money related and i will have won this argument)

And your thinking too pve. no self respecting cleric will consider going into pvp without SOME vit, its suicide with those 1 hitting mages and 5 apsing melees running about.

(Your too rich to have that kinda gear on your cleric this early)
(Mystic gain the same amount of hp per vit as cleric so ha!)
(Your seriously too rich)

Edit: The game economy is at the stage where the rich gets richer and the poor gets pwned. Cant realistically talk about Rank 9 gear situations.

_Petal_ - Harshlands

Video killed the radio star....

And Mystics are slowly killing the Cleric.
Disgusting yes, but true. You know what would solve that? A nurf. Hell knows they need it.
To those Mystics whining about a high MP cost....that's literally nothing a charm or pots can solve.

Next excuse please?

The fact is, Mystics are effectively killing EVERY DD class. Everybody thinks because they can rez buff and heal, that they can replace a cleric! (or any other class for that matter.)

It's stupidly narrowminded. Keep your cleric. At least THAT class is useful.

Sverdet - Heavens Tear

I say Cleric's will not be killed by Mystic's. Sure, Mystic's have a good heal combo, more DD (maybe? idk), and res buff. BUT they can't stack IH's like a Cleric, and also, what if they forget to give someone a rez buff? Cleric's are the only one's who can rez AFTER death. Some Mystic's do a good job at healing and stuff, don't get me wrong, but I say Cleric's are the preferred healers for squads. I get nervous when I squad with 1 Mystic and no Cleric.

By the way, look at the initials for "Break in the Clouds heal". I think we have been trolled by the devs.

vristion

Lol, solution to every debate...


If you have r9+12 everything..

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

It's a tossup in TW, killing a mystic or cleric, on an Archer.

If I hit a crit on sage take aim, most clerics die. If I don't, then I've gotta keep pounding at their charm, or they have to keep stacking IH, and I have to keep using arrows on them... Luckily, at this point, they can't stack enough of IH on themselves to attack back, they have to get someone else in their squad to do that for them...

With Mystics, if i can't oneshot them, and I'm not at absolute max range (which, btw, is a little further than cleric or mystic's range), they send their pet at me while they heal themselves. if they were smart, they put mana into their Devil summon, and it'll skullslap me, but I have yet to encounter one of those. Usually, it's goes Sage Take Aim - Auto attack - Stunning arrow - Auto attack - they're dead.

If Take Aim doesn't kill them, they will nuke heal. I try opening with take aim to tick their charm if they have one and it isn't a oneshot. Sometimes, I'll put a deadly shot in after stunning arrow, if their summon gets to me quickly.

Cacie - Sanctuary

Interestingly I didn't notice much competition between cleric and mystic in squads and also wouldn't think one will die out or the other won't be played. Have both in squad is awesome.

suzubishi

Honestly, mystic heals are very awesome. I initially made a mystic thinking that my heal cannot be compared to that of a cleric. But as I started doing instance runs, I noticed that some clerics i was with cannot keep up the heal, and tankers can end up dead if I do not heal. However, my mystic heal can easily keep up. What bothers me is how people often underestimate mystic heals. Though I admit that having a cleric and a mystic in a squad makes the job much easier. And often, it's pretty much easy done with two mystics around because they have strong heal and heals really fast, along with plants and falling petals, it's pretty much unbeatable.

Edit: Forgot salvation shield can absorb a good amount of damage as well, just that bosses usually debuff this shield. But dealing with mobs, this shield is amazing.