Educating nab APS archers

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XxZavxX - Raging Tide
XxZavxX - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
edited April 2011 in Tideswell (East)
In the following thread boogiepanda made some rather foolish claims. Like only zerk critting 1 out 42 hits. And zerks are 5% proc chance based on pwdatabase info. Which is ridiculous. Anyone with a Nebulous Shooter can tell you the info on that site is incorrect. The bow does not proc 1 out of 5 times like the database suggests it does.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1073101

Now lets look at what actually happens in the game...

http://s759.photobucket.com/albums/xx238/XxZavxX/?action=view&current=dmg1.jpg

3 zerk crits .. no clue how many regular hits were zerks. But zerk crits happen way more than 1/42 times. And zerks happen more than 5%. Totally not what pwdatabase says. But it what the game actually does...



Just to show that this was no fluke...

http://s759.photobucket.com/albums/xx238/XxZavxX/?action=view&current=dmg2.jpg

http://s759.photobucket.com/albums/xx238/XxZavxX/?action=view&current=dmg3.jpg

http://s759.photobucket.com/albums/xx238/XxZavxX/?action=view&current=dmg4.jpg


Troll me all you like for my selection of fists (which by the way aren't the only fists I use..)...

Your thread still doesn't match up to actual game play boogie... And TT90 gold fists > GV for damage purposes...
Post edited by XxZavxX - Raging Tide on
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Whats your crit rate?
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  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    EVEN IF you do more damage (which is going to be slight at best)


    What's the point when you just **** your charm. Oh look I made 3mil from soloing a 3-2, and I only spent 2mil on charm!
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  • Ambition - Raging Tide
    Ambition - Raging Tide Posts: 1,152 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Correct me if I'm wrong but uh, wouldn't demon spark heal you? b:surrender
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  • Epros - Raging Tide
    Epros - Raging Tide Posts: 1,720 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    XxZavxX - Raging Tide wrote: »
    In the following thread boogiepanda made some rather foolish claims. Like only zerk critting 1 out 42 hits. And zerks are 5% proc chance based on pwdatabase info. Which is ridiculous. Anyone with a Nebulous Shooter can tell you the info on that site is incorrect. The bow does not proc 1 out of 5 times like the database suggests it does.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1073101

    Now lets look at what actually happens in the game...

    http://s759.photobucket.com/albums/xx238/XxZavxX/?action=view&current=dmg1.jpg

    3 zerk crits .. no clue how many regular hits were zerks. But zerk crits happen way more than 1/42 times. And zerks happen more than 5%. Totally not what pwdatabase says. But it what the game actually does...



    Just to show that this was no fluke...

    http://s759.photobucket.com/albums/xx238/XxZavxX/?action=view&current=dmg2.jpg

    http://s759.photobucket.com/albums/xx238/XxZavxX/?action=view&current=dmg3.jpg

    http://s759.photobucket.com/albums/xx238/XxZavxX/?action=view&current=dmg4.jpg


    Troll me all you like for my selection of fists (which by the way aren't the only fists I use..)...

    Your thread still doesn't match up to actual game play boogie... And TT90 gold fists > GV for damage purposes...

    my base attacks hit harder than your zerk crits
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Shandelzare - Sanctuary
    Shandelzare - Sanctuary Posts: 732 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    You guys realize how small the dmg difference would be right? Just get whichever is cheaper...
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  • Bellefleurs - Raging Tide
    Bellefleurs - Raging Tide Posts: 733 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Zav is trying to be "right." However his own faction mate is calling him an idiot. LOL
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  • Frijolero - Sanctuary
    Frijolero - Sanctuary Posts: 820 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    But that damage is from claws or bow shots (not skills)?
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  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Ambition - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong but uh, wouldn't demon spark heal you? b:surrender
    Demon spark heals 20% every 15 seconds. At 5 aps 15 seconds is 75 attacks. In order for demon spark to even cover the health lost you would need to zerk less than 4 times in 75 attacks. Meaning the proc rate would need to be around 5%, which would mean that GV would do more damage. The only way for TT90 fists to do more damage than GV is to **** your charm
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    I thought the point of claw/fists was to farm more efficiently.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
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    Qui: b:dirty
  • Bellefleurs - Raging Tide
    Bellefleurs - Raging Tide Posts: 733 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I thought the point of claw/fists was to farm more efficiently.

    Hence the reason this argument is happening. Zav says he's better cause he has TT90.. but boogie KNOWS GV's are better for archers.

    Saving charm while farming is profit.

    /enddiscussion
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    Retired nonfactor archer.
  • Dylena - Raging Tide
    Dylena - Raging Tide Posts: 1,416 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I thought the point of claw/fists was to farm more efficiently.

    Q, we cant question Zav, hes the top archer on RT /sarcasm. Q change server, lets get married and bring Tranny-Ast with you. b:dirty
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  • XxZavxX - Raging Tide
    XxZavxX - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    EVEN IF you do more damage (which is going to be slight at best)


    What's the point when you just **** your charm. Oh look I made 3mil from soloing a 3-2, and I only spent 2mil on charm!

    If I am costing myself so much money let me pose this question. How did I shard my pants full of JoSDs (approx 142m coins) from farming, bought a bunny shop for my merch shop, bought tons of subs and crab meat, bought a ton of herbs out of the AH, and bought other odds and ends?

    Before you say CS, I haven't charged in a couple months. I don't care about blowing through a charm in 4-5 solo TT runs. I generate a lot more coins than 2.7m - 5.4m in charms a day between merching and farming.
  • XxZavxX - Raging Tide
    XxZavxX - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Bellefleurs - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Hence the reason this argument is happening. Zav says he's better cause he has TT90.. but boogie KNOWS GV's are better for archers.

    Saving charm while farming is profit.

    /enddiscussion

    11k hp(unbuffed) allows me to farm TTs solo that boogie can't.
  • XxZavxX - Raging Tide
    XxZavxX - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Dylena - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Q, we cant question Zav, hes the top archer on RT /sarcasm. Q change server, lets get married and bring Tranny-Ast with you. b:dirty

    I am a much much better archer than you. You're silly **** went gaga for the r9 weapon. Guess what buddy? You are a 1 shot to many people. If you even had any ounce of intelligence when it comes to the archer you would realize the armor > weapon. You would've got nice set bonuses that would've kept you upright... but nah... you chose to be a 1 shot archer with mediocre damage. Good job.
  • Man - Raging Tide
    Man - Raging Tide Posts: 1,410 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Well the PvE masters on the server are the one who advised zavv to try zerk fists. Together the 2 people have probably farmed more coin than power factions put together. They've farmed more in one week than rawrgh has in one year (maybe speculation!)

    Point being Zerk doesn't kill you, if you do more dmg its more likely you will tank, so you will be getting cleric heals. Zerk = spike dmg, better for PvP, and better for PvE in terms of coa, in terms of celestial tiger, in terms of fighting for bosses.

    Also boogies math kind of gets owned in that thread. As far as God of Frenzy proc, I suspect its close to 25- 33 percent. I've done no actual testing though.

    Edit http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/25682 these are best archer fist.

    I ask this subforum why Zavv's fists deserves derision or even note? I would like to apologize on behalf of zavv for not being cookie cutter and or a sheep.

    Edit 2: You've got to do what?
    You've got to believe
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  • Dylena - Raging Tide
    Dylena - Raging Tide Posts: 1,416 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    XxZavxX - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I am a much much better archer than you. You're silly **** went gaga for the r9 weapon. Guess what buddy? You are a 1 shot to many people. If you even had any ounce of intelligence when it comes to the archer you would realize the armor > weapon. You would've got nice set bonuses that would've kept you upright... but nah... you chose to be a 1 shot archer with mediocre damage. Good job.

    Wanted to start it off with LOLUMADBRO? Who are you kidding, if I could put you on a category among the archers I've met thru my time on PWI I would put you next to BrainDawkins in skills (Core Sanctuary player will understand this).

    Do I really need to remind you that before the rank sale, most people ignored your attacks in TW, even your own faction members laughed at your pvp kills and how you played. Now that you have full R9 +10 you might consider yourself as a factor but I would have to say no, you're wrong. To me it seems you've wasted alot of time and money into that R9 because even with it, your still quite a worthless archer. The R9 itself kills people, not you. If you want to prove to me that you're better then me then im more then glad to get TT60 unrefined xbow+TT70 armors unrefined unsharded vs yours same gears...actually just to be nice get TT90 xbow vs my TT60.

    Now to the point where you comment about R9 armors > bow....You do understand that you're just making yourself look bad by making a comment like that. Archers and sins are LA dex classes and will forever be that, if you dont understand the meaning of what I mean with that then im sorry, nobody can help you understand why LA classes choose dmg before their armors.

    Yes, "I am a 1 shot for most people" thats why people like to gank me, because its how the 1 shot works right? On another note, I havent got any armor upgrade except my bow since the first rank sale came, which means I havent feelt like getting anything for a very long time but dont worry, once the medals are back I'll get my gears back up to grade and I'll show you how to play this class properly.

    This is my point of perspective tho, others might consider you "pro" but to me, you are a non-factor and will always be one unless you change your gameplay completley. Take it or leave it, up to you. b:mischievous
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  • TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide
    TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide Posts: 1,946 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    XxZavxX - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I am a much much better archer than you.

    I think you're a terribad archer,r9 doesn't make you nor any1 pro,neither does hitting for insane amounts of dmg.b:cute


    But alas,lots of ppl in this game think OP dmg = pro player.You truly were a non-factor b4 the game turned into faceroll mode,get it right <3 .


    I'll say that Dylena/knulls/nadis is a pro archer but I'll never say it because of the r9 bow he has or because he 1-2 shot whoever with it. I'll say it because I knew him from sanctuary as an archer there and as an archer here in the short time he got to play with it b4 the rank sale came.



    Ohhh,there I said it,cry me a river Zav <3.
    It's all about LoL,yo.
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Man - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Zerk = spike dmg, better for PvP,

    The 'best' faction on RT advise their archers to use fists in PvP?
    Man - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Also boogies math kind of gets owned in that thread

    Err no, working on 5% proc chance my results were quite close I believe. Of course, please do point out why my methods were wrong.
    Man - Raging Tide wrote:
    Edit http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/25682 these are best archer fist.

    I don't believe so. http://pwcalc.com/ea57b879c2edf0f1
    Man - Raging Tide wrote:
    I ask this subforum why Zavv's fists deserves derision or even note? I would like to apologize on behalf of zavv for not being cookie cutter and or a sheep.

    I'm not attacking anyone simply they do not follow the 'cookie cutter build'. Hell, I attack more full interval archers than non-interval. Zerk fists just does not make sense however you look at it. Say for argument's sake that zerk has 15% proc rate, yes it'll out DPS my GVs, but at 5APS that's 4 zerks every 5 seconds. With Zav having 10k HP, that's 20% of HP (2k) gone in just 5 seconds. Over the course of 10 seconds, that's 4k HP lost due to zerking, faster than crabmeat can heal.
    Man - Raging Tide wrote:
    Edit 2: You've got to do what?
    You've got to believe

    I'll believe it when i see proof.
    XxZavxX - Raging Tide wrote:
    11k hp(unbuffed) allows me to farm TTs solo that boogie can't.

    I'm pretty sure that if I spent my college tuition on the game I'll be able to solo the whole game. If I wasn't, I'd be asking for a refund.
    XxZavxX - Raging Tide wrote:
    In the following thread boogiepanda made some rather foolish claims. Like only zerk critting 1 out 42 hits. And zerks are 5% proc chance based on pwdatabase info.

    Please do share your source of information with me, I am intrigued.
  • Shandelzare - Sanctuary
    Shandelzare - Sanctuary Posts: 732 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    How bouts this? In terms of efficient farm GV will be better. It doesn't burn charm and IF it does less damage it will be hardly noticeable. A few seconds of farm time is worth a lot less than a charm these days.

    Also, farming is not the only way to make money nor is it necessarily the fastest. When I played I didn't farm **** and I had no problems with gold. The fact that you have money does not mean anything.
    Dylena - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I would put you next to BrainDawkins in skills (Core Sanctuary player will understand this).

    I thought this was extremely harsh...
    XxZavxX - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I am a much much better archer than you... when it comes to the archer you would realize the armor > weapon.

    Then I saw this comment.

    So I loled. b:chuckle

    Also, there is nothing wrong with not having a cookie-cutter build, but when you have such a build make sure it works.
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  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    XxZavxX - Raging Tide wrote: »
    If I am costing myself so much money let me pose this question. How did I shard my pants full of JoSDs (approx 142m coins) from farming, bought a bunny shop for my merch shop, bought tons of subs and crab meat, bought a ton of herbs out of the AH, and bought other odds and ends?

    Before you say CS, I haven't charged in a couple months. I don't care about blowing through a charm in 4-5 solo TT runs. I generate a lot more coins than 2.7m - 5.4m in charms a day between merching and farming.
    Yet no matter how much you make, someone with fist/claws that DONT cause charm **** will always make more in terms of coins per hour, because they DONT have that cost. You're adding an extra income drain that is 100% unnecessary.

    The idea of farming is to maximize income while minimizing expenses. You are adding unnecessary expenses.



    And also, lol @ buying a bunny shop. If you think a 5 gold item is anything to be proud of then that's kinda sad. And grats on making like, 160mil? I've farmed... let's see, in like 6 weeks I've managed to farm 100 raps at an average of 1.7mil each. TT99 fists, 2000 socket stones, orbs to refine up to +8, 2 garnet gems, more subs/crab meat than you can imagine, both demon buff skill books and several others, higher refines on my gears, etc.


    And I'm not even a good farmer, I'm probably mediocre at best, yet I can understand that spending less money = more profit.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Why would an archer be choosing a fist with lower APS that steals 5% health from you every time it procs over a fist that has higher APS, and heals 5% every time it hits? b:question

    I read the whole thread. And it's for farming yes. And it's for archers yes.

    Both are relatively the same DPS as well.. Why would you sacrifice 5% health each time a proc happens just for an extra 5k or so damage per sec on a ? boss?

    It just doesn't seem logical to me. Relatively same DPS + 5% heals per proc > Relatively same DPS + 5% HP sacrifice per proc.


    I mean.. It's like two jobs. Which would you take?

    Job 1: Working for $20/h, 5h a day, 6 days a week, and you get 5% bonus on top of your hours.
    Job 2: Working for $20/h, 5h a day, 6 days a week, and you pay 5% in taxes.

    Job 1 is using GV fists, and Job 2 is using TT90 fists.

    Why are you so blind Zav?
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  • HeavensRage - Raging Tide
    HeavensRage - Raging Tide Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    This thread... b:shutup
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Did Man and Zav accidentally miss my response?

    Bump.
  • Bellefleurs - Raging Tide
    Bellefleurs - Raging Tide Posts: 733 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    One solution to this issue...

    Make a fckn fish.

    archers that aim at using fists are ****.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Retired nonfactor archer.
  • Man - Raging Tide
    Man - Raging Tide Posts: 1,410 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »
    The 'best' faction on RT advise their archers to use fists in PvP?

    Err no, working on 5% proc chance my results were quite close I believe. Of course, please do point out why my methods were wrong.

    I'm not attacking anyone simply they do not follow the 'cookie cutter build'. Hell, I attack more full interval archers than non-interval. Zerk fists just does not make sense however you look at it. Say for argument's sake that zerk has 15% proc rate, yes it'll out DPS my GVs, but at 5APS that's 4 zerks every 5 seconds. With Zav having 10k HP, that's 20% of HP (2k) gone in just 5 seconds. Over the course of 10 seconds, that's 4k HP lost due to zerking, faster than crabmeat can heal.

    I'll believe it when i see proof.


    Assuming zerk chance is 30% this fists dmg kick yours butt. Crab meat is very cheap. In group farming when a 4 mil hp boss dies in 30 seconds spike dmg is pro, and no i don't see a lot more charm use. Archers and fists don't have a use? I know they've surprised and killed me before. I get close to the archer to recieve less dmg and pow, archer whips out fists and starts apsing me. Small dmg edge can be a big advantage in events. I would love to have zerk fists over other fists if i had an archer.

    I think your butthurt over zavv for one reason or another and just want to qq. This build is NOT cookie cutter but IS effective.
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  • LuciferV - Raging Tide
    LuciferV - Raging Tide Posts: 381 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Archers wanna be BM
    Barbs wanna be BM
    b:laugh
    I hate calling ppl idiot.. but oh well..
    Don't F. with me, I F. back ;)
  • Revenge - Raging Tide
    Revenge - Raging Tide Posts: 834 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    im with luci on this one, everybody wants to be a bm without actually being bm its so not cool kiddies qq anyway zerk fists are overrated since the proc rate is based solely off each individual hits and not the number of hits you do, zerk is unpredictable and completly unreliable, therefor to fall back on having zerk fists for "spike damage" is stupid since you dont know when or even if you'll zerk for bigger damage and in the long run the difference in damage between tt90 gold and fc gold fists are minimal at best so this entire areguement between which is better is COMPLETLY stupid and redundant

    so in short if you wanna go fists make a damn bm, otherwise stop arguing <3
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  • Shandelzare - Sanctuary
    Shandelzare - Sanctuary Posts: 732 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    If a barb dies to an archer while they're using fists then something is wrong ijs...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Dylena - Raging Tide
    Dylena - Raging Tide Posts: 1,416 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Shandelzare - Sanctuary wrote: »
    If a barb dies to an archer while they're using fists then something is wrong ijs...

    You read my mind.
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  • Mistolepet - Raging Tide
    Mistolepet - Raging Tide Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Man - Raging Tide wrote: »


    I know they've surprised and killed me before. I get close to the archer to recieve less dmg and pow, archer whips out fists and starts apsing me.

    Only in TWs you've won... IJS

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