Cleric in pvp/pk

Jellytoast - Sanctuary · April 2011

Alrighty, I've been watching some of the pking/dueling outside west arch lately, and realized I don't know much about pvp. I know the basics, but nothing specific against each class. I pvped a bm the other day and had no idea there was something called balance, and made a fool of myself hitting him for 40s'. XD
So what I'm asking is for anyone to give tips on how to pvp or pk as a cleric against:

Bm:
Wiz:
Archer:
Another cleric:
Barb (in tiger form and out):
Veno (in fox form and out):
Sin (yeah not expecting much on this one):
Psy:

And possibly seeker and mystic if anyone knows enough about them already.
Thanks for your time.

Dralighte - Harshlands · April 2011

Veno (in fox form and out): sleep the veno, kill the nix..
Sin (yeah not expecting much on this one): erm.. spam IH with plume shield b4 he jumps on you?

For a good player, cleric is one of the most powerful class to pk, people think it's useless but it still very strong against kinda all classes.

Jellytoast - Sanctuary · April 2011

Is that all?

I actually went pking for the first time ever today, and had tons of fun. (Stopped cause some people started taking it too seriously -.-) I had my faction there as well and everyone had a lot of fun, but noticed the sins wouldn't stop killing me. And I had no way to combat them, since by the time I noticed I was dead.

TheDan - Sanctuary · April 2011

Jellytoast - Sanctuary wrote: »

Is that all? I actually went pking for the first time ever today, and had tons of fun. (Stopped cause some people started taking it too seriously -.-) I had my faction there as well and everyone had a lot of fun, but noticed the sins wouldn't stop killing me. And I had no way to combat them, since by the time I noticed I was dead.

Clerics are kind of sin bait lol. You best wear lots of fur to look like a barb or go with a squad against those teams of sins. b:surrender

truekossy · April 2011

What Dan said is tue. Against sins your best strategy as a cleric is pretty much pray that you're the luckiest cleric on the planet and that the sin is a complete moron.

For most other classes, there are some basic strategies you can use but, as you saw with balance, the better PKers out there will be able to counter those pretty easily.

simple general strategies, though.

vs HA: Play keep away with them via your seals. Keep at least one shell available at all times for them. Aim to get them close to 50% HP and then bypass charm. Note that a smarter player will use domain or the like when you do this, so you can use something like thunderball to make them waste it before you use your actual charm-bypass skill.

vs LA: They're weak vs Phys and magic. Sins are something you pary against and with a good archer, you do not want to drag out the fight thanks to purge bows and the like. If you're doing large chuncks of damage with each hit, go ahead and tick their charm to beat the cooldown or try to 1-shot them. If you're doing smaller amounts of damage, you'll want to try to bypass the charms.

vs AA: Phys attacks and dimensional seal are great for these. Against another arcane it's gonna really come down to who is either more experienced and has better skill, or who has better gear. Beware of wizzies, though. They may use magic too but they hurt like hell. Oh and they have blade tempest. Blade tempest REALLY hurts.

Dralighte - Harshlands · April 2011

Jellytoast - Sanctuary wrote: »

Is that all? I actually went pking for the first time ever today, and had tons of fun. (Stopped cause some people started taking it too seriously -.-) I had my faction there as well and everyone had a lot of fun, but noticed the sins wouldn't stop killing me. And I had no way to combat them, since by the time I noticed I was dead.

My cleric is only lvl 7xish. I only say some facts about what I saw :P
Most of the clerics drop my HP to half, sleep me, debuffs and tempest.

Ciretako - Harshlands · April 2011

Assassins pack a lot of force in the first few moments of the fight, the longer it goes on, the more tricks they run out of. Of course the knack is surviving those first few seconds b:surrender my advice? Make friends with a sin, get him or her to tackle them, or at least get them out of stealth.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · April 2011

Bm: kite them like crazy. Don't stay on the ground, they have a movement buff there. Fly in the air and elevate to kite them. When they finally catch you drop. Even if they stun you in mid air, they only do half damage since you're in free fall mode. Get his hp around 50%, sleep>debuff>triple spark>Tempest

Wiz: get the wiz as close to 50% hp as possible then sleep>debuff>triple spark> razor feathers

Archer: not sure tbh. Just fortify when stunning arrow is coming, poke em with cyclone when you can, and sleep>tempest them when you can. Oh and keep plume shield up.

cleric: I'd recommend putting up plume shield. If the other cleric doesn't, pound them with plume shot. Same combo as wiz, get em to 50% then sleep chain.

Barb: I doubt you have enough fire power to kill a decently geared barb.

Veno: A lot of people say to sleep the pet then work on the veno, but I actually think the opposite is better. Realistically you probably won't be killing the veno before the sleep wears off, so I say sleep the veno then kill the nix. If you're r8, killing the nix only takes 3 or 4 hits max. Once the nix is gone, you just have to keep the veno busy until your sleep cools down and you can sleep chain them.

Sin: full buff the sin and friend him.

Psy: Plume shot until he uses psy will, then switch to magic attacks. Don't try to purify soulburn, it can't be removed. Also don't try to ih stack yourself while you're soulburned, you'll just kill yourself.

I may of just given you more of the basics, but whatever b:cute

Jellytoast - Sanctuary · April 2011

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Bm: kite them like crazy. Don't stay on the ground, they have a movement buff there. Fly in the air and elevate to kite them. When they finally catch you drop. Even if they stun you in mid air, they only do half damage since you're in free fall mode. Get his hp around 50%, sleep>debuff>triple spark>Tempest

Wiz: get the wiz as close to 50% hp as possible then sleep>debuff>triple spark> razor feathers

Archer: not sure tbh. Just fortify when stunning arrow is coming, poke em with cyclone when you can, and sleep>tempest them when you can. Oh and keep plume shield up.

cleric: I'd recommend putting up plume shield. If the other cleric doesn't, pound them with plume shot. Same combo as wiz, get em to 50% then sleep chain.

Barb: I doubt you have enough fire power to kill a decently geared barb.

Veno: A lot of people say to sleep the pet then work on the veno, but I actually think the opposite is better. Realistically you probably won't be killing the veno before the sleep wears off, so I say sleep the veno then kill the nix. If you're r8, killing the nix only takes 3 or 4 hits max. Once the nix is gone, you just have to keep the veno busy until your sleep cools down and you can sleep chain them.

Sin: full buff the sin and friend him.

Psy: Plume shot until he uses psy will, then switch to magic attacks. Don't try to purify soulburn, it can't be removed. Also don't try to ih stack yourself while you're soulburned, you'll just kill yourself.

I may of just given you more of the basics, but whatever b:cute

Okay thanks for the advice.

And everyone else here. Also I highlighted the barb part. I don't see why I couldn't kill one.

I can kill my r9 faction leader in a duel. Or is it just different in pk?

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · April 2011

Jellytoast - Sanctuary wrote: »

I can kill my r9 faction leader in a duel. Or is it just different in pk?

Completely different for one reason: charms

What I meant by the barb comment was that I'm not too sure that you could drop his hp to 0 from the time his charm ticked until it recharges. That's a big reason barbs are so tough to kill in 1v1 pvp. They can chase you around in tiger form, stun you, and deal decent damage.

I say it might be hard for a cleric to kill an equally geared barb for the same reason it's hard for me to do it.
Neither of our classes has especially good magical dps, so we can't dd their hp to 0 after a charm tick. And thanks to a barbs insane hp, it can be pretty tough to KO them.

From my experience, a barb almost never loses a fight, but also never wins a fight.

truekossy · April 2011

Jellytoast - Sanctuary wrote: »

Okay thanks for the advice. And everyone else here. Also I highlighted the barb part. I don't see why I couldn't kill one. I can kill my r9 faction leader in a duel. Or is it just different in pk?

Charms are a major factor for PK. I can kill barbs in duels on an archer w/o using metals just by locking them in place with stun/freeze and kiting. In real PK, the only thing that'd do is annoy them and maybe tick their charms.

Charms aside, most people hold back in duels and won't using apoths, pots, genie skills, certain class skills, terrain advantages, kiing, etc. Basically, most people don't take duels seriously enough to go all-out in them versus how in PK, there aren't any limits. So some things that may work in a duel (sleep -> debuff -> tempest at the very start, for instance) would wind up doing absolutely nothing to a decent opponent in PK.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Completely different for one reason: charms

What I meant by the barb comment was that I'm not too sure that you could drop his hp to 0 from the time his charm ticked until it recharges. That's a big reason barbs are so tough to kill in 1v1 pvp. They can chase you around in tiger form, stun you, and deal decent damage.

I say it might be hard for a cleric to kill an equally geared barb for the same reason it's hard for me to do it.
Neither of our classes has especially good magical dps, so we can't dd their hp to 0 after a charm tick. And thanks to a barbs insane hp, it can be pretty tough to KO them.

From my experience, a barb almost never loses a fight, but also never wins a fight.

Get barb HP to almost 50% -> debuff -> spark -> charm bypass. ijs, not that tough to do.

You're a caster and unless you have fast channeling skills that also deal high damage (or exceptional gear), it's almost always better to aim for a charm bypass than it is to let the charm get ticked.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · April 2011

truekossy wrote: »

Get barb HP to almost 50% -> debuff -> spark -> charm bypass. ijs, not that tough to do.

You're a caster and unless you have fast channeling skills that also deal high damage (or exceptional gear), it's almost always better to aim for a charm bypass than it is to let the charm get ticked.

Yes it is tough to do. Your average barb has mdef ornaments and a lot of vit, which adds even more mdef. Couple that with 10k+ hp, you have to hit quite a bit to 1 hit that barb. You're asking for a 5k+ hit from a 9x wiz.

For a 10x wiz that's an easy finish, but then a 10x barb usually has 20k+ hp.

Btw, wizards don't go for charm bypasses on barbs. We use sutra to finish them.

SilverCleric - Lost City · April 2011

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Bm: kite them like crazy. Don't stay on the ground, they have a movement buff there. Fly in the air and elevate to kite them. When they finally catch you drop. Even if they stun you in mid air, they only do half damage since you're in free fall mode. Get his hp around 50%, sleep>debuff>triple spark>Tempest

Wiz: get the wiz as close to 50% hp as possible then sleep>debuff>triple spark> razor feathers

Archer: not sure tbh. Just fortify when stunning arrow is coming, poke em with cyclone when you can, and sleep>tempest them when you can. Oh and keep plume shield up.

cleric: I'd recommend putting up plume shield. If the other cleric doesn't, pound them with plume shot. Same combo as wiz, get em to 50% then sleep chain.

Barb: I doubt you have enough fire power to kill a decently geared barb.

Veno: A lot of people say to sleep the pet then work on the veno, but I actually think the opposite is better. Realistically you probably won't be killing the veno before the sleep wears off, so I say sleep the veno then kill the nix. If you're r8, killing the nix only takes 3 or 4 hits max. Once the nix is gone, you just have to keep the veno busy until your sleep cools down and you can sleep chain them.

Sin: full buff the sin and friend him.

Psy: Plume shot until he uses psy will, then switch to magic attacks. Don't try to purify soulburn, it can't be removed. Also don't try to ih stack yourself while you're soulburned, you'll just kill yourself.

I may of just given you more of the basics, but whatever b:cute

Wait, so you take damage if you try to heal while you have soulburn debuff on you? b:shocked

truekossy · April 2011

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yes it is tough to do. Your average barb has mdef ornaments and a lot of vit, which adds even more mdef. Couple that with 10k+ hp, you have to hit quite a bit to 1 hit that barb. You're asking for a 5k+ hit from a 9x wiz.

For a 10x wiz that's an easy finish, but then a 10x barb usually has 20k+ hp.

Btw, wizards don't go for charm bypasses on barbs. We use sutra to finish them.

5k in PvP = around 20k PvE damage. Between debuffs and sparking, that's really not that tough to do even without getting a crit. Plus since not many invest heavily into 9X gear nowadays, that puts things quite a bit in your favor.

For a 10X wiz with a mid-refined R8 weapon, again, not too huge of a deal to try and get a 10k crit on a hard hitting spell. With low refines, it may be a struggle. With high refines they wouldn't even need a crit.

As for the bypass thing, that depends on your culti and playstyle. Demon wiz are quite good for charm racing and sages for bypass. Aside from that, OP is a cleric and doesn't have access to sutra while I mentioned casters in general. Even with those two points ignored, I already covered the effects of sutra when I said fast channel skills (very hard to beat the channel speed sutra gives).

SilverCleric - Lost City wrote: »

Wait, so you take damage if you try to heal while you have soulburn debuff on you? b:shocked

Yep. In an oversimplified way, if you try to do anything other than move, soulburn's gonna do damage to you.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · April 2011

SilverCleric - Lost City wrote: »

Wait, so you take damage if you try to heal while you have soulburn debuff on you? b:shocked

Yup. Try using any skill at all and you hurt yourself. That includes sparking. Also soulburn can't be removed at all, and that goes for triple spark and purify as well.

truekossy wrote: »

5k in PvP = around 20k PvE damage. Between debuffs and sparking, that's really not that tough to do even without getting a crit. Plus since not many invest heavily into 9X gear nowadays, that puts things quite a bit in your favor.

Setting up ultimates on a barb that can run at you with 6 m/s as well as pester you with stuns, as well as having antistun skills, is harder than it sounds.
By the same token, I don't invest much in my wep, so it's an even playing field.

truekossy wrote: »

For a 10X wiz with a mid-refined R8 weapon, again, not too huge of a deal to try and get a 10k crit on a hard hitting spell. With low refines, it may be a struggle. With high refines they wouldn't even need a crit.

Completely agree. Wizards level beautifully and our damage jumps with every upgrade in weapons.
Yes a high refined wep will easily KO a low refined barb. A highly refined barb could easily have 25k-30k hp though. And of course r9 barbs are known for having 40k+ hp.

SilverCleric - Lost City · April 2011

truekossy wrote: »

Yep. In an oversimplified way, if you try to do anything other than move, soulburn's gonna do damage to you.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yup. Try using any skill at all and you hurt yourself. That includes sparking. Also soulburn can't be removed at all, and that goes for triple spark and purify as well.

I knew that soulburn can't be purified but I never knew about doing any skill will kill your self. b:shocked

Thanks for the info, you saved me alot of deaths when I start pking Psy's. b:pleased

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · April 2011

SilverCleric - Lost City wrote: »

I knew that soulburn can't be purified but I never knew about doing any skill will kill your self. b:shocked

Thanks for the info, you saved me alot of deaths when I start pking Psy's. b:pleased

Np, but don't let soulburn keep you from winning a fight.

Attacking while soulburned is a bad idea, but it doesn't mean you instantly die. If you have almost full hp and your charm hasn't ticked, and you think 1 more plume shot will finish the psy, go for it.

Jellytoast - Sanctuary · April 2011

Ouch. Soulburn seems scary. So do I just wait for it to go away? How long does it last? Also, sorry for seeming noob, I'm on a pve server, but what exactly does charm bypass mean?

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · April 2011

Jellytoast - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ouch. Soulburn seems scary. So do I just wait for it to go away? How long does it last? Also, sorry for seeming noob, I'm on a pve server, but what exactly does charm bypass mean?

Normally I would say yes, wait for it to go away. Level 10 soulburn lasts for 10 seconds, so it's a pretty nasty skill. The best you can do when you're soulburned is to kite the psy for the remainder of the effect.

Charm bypass is referring to KO'ing an opponent.
I'm sure you know what an hp/guardian charm is, and that it restores your hp to 100% once your hp hits 50% or less (which is commonly referred to as a "tick" of the charm).

The idea of a charm bypass is to get the opponents hp as close to 50% as possible, without ticking the charm. You want it lower so it's easier to KO the opponent, without it actually getting below 50% hp so they restore to max hp.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · April 2011

To play with sins on a cleric you'll need...

A full antistun geni, Fortify, 100% Badge of Courgae, AD, and expel. Last 2 spots would be CE/Holy path

Seal of the gods. No really get it, you need 4th map culti for the belt anyways and the skill costs less thank rank 8. Argueably the most overpowered 1v1 pk skill in game

Gear: you need enough hp/phys def to survive the first stun and ofc a charm hp AND mp

A brain: this last qualification is the most nessecary of all.

On sins basicly you want to keep sage vangaurd/demon SOR's buff up at all times as well as a phys def charm to prevent 2 spark headhunting. Badge or domain out of the first stun and pop plume shell after getitng some distance. if they freeze you pop expel or SOTG them (depends on the sin if they have tidal up dont bother with seal) fortify if the sin is locking you through expel and get some range. Ok now its fun time sleep em and try to tick nerves. Then SoTG to keep the sin from stealthign and rebuffing/stunning you. 3 spark and finish with the next sleep.

Its a bit more complicated than that in real pvp but that tactic will work vs most sins.

On psys just proc SoR then try for a sleep kill combo with razor if sage and plume if demon after you burn their geni resists Try to keep an IH stack up at all times. If you see soulburn just holy path away

on bm's...kite kite kite, if a good bm gets close your not going anywhere even with antistun geni procs. use silent seal well and you'll be fine

Wizzies are your natural foe, dont even bother with plume shot most will have more phys def than a bm. Pop GL or WoG if you see blade tempest channeling and throw up AD if you see the sutra animation. Spaming self heals helps here as well

Archers, Ewwwwww if they're only rank 8 just stay in shell or WoG/GL you should be able to survive, of you get frozen with aim low just purify, same wiht STA or blood vow the main killer here will be a QS proc dont be afraid to blow expel or AD if you tick. Vs rank 9. Sleep>3 spark>tempsest>pray try to end the fight before that purge procs and dont be afraid to rush to mele range. Even 5 aps claws will not hurt as badly as a well refined bow

Venos>SOTG veno>kill nix>sleep veno>kill veno beware the bleed and purge. aside from that you'll be fine

Barbs, Uhg these are a pain to kill. Keep your range and keep van and shells up whenever they get close take your time. The goal is to shave the fuzzy down to 51% hp and tempest praying for a crit. On clawbarbs just badge out of OI and you'll be fine. G 15 axes HURT do not let them get close w/o a shell up.

Vs other clerics: healspam SOTG to wear out their heal stack get em to 51% and open up with phys hits the fight will most likely end on a lucky crit

Look in encatomb for skills and learn the other classes geni/skill timeing. If you want practice vs a bm i'll be willing to play with you in game just pm me.

TheDan - Sanctuary · April 2011

On top of spamming sage vanguard/demon stream of rejuvenation, phys def charms are nice too. That Guardian Light with the 60% damage reduction and plume shell should always be ready as well, assuming you break out of stun-lock with your genie.

Ruvil - Sanctuary · April 2011

Hi Jelly,

most of what id want to say has already been said b:sad.

quick tip vs physical: hit purify then immediately use expel (I like shift + f#). You will be immune to physical and able to cast b:victory. Unfortunately any good bms/sins will know how to work around this u.u

purify, guardian light, silent seal, cyclone (kiting), sog (so expensive >_<), winged blessing, debuffs, and the lvl 11 buffs (depending sage vs demon) are all amazing and UNDERUSED yeah... that was pretty general. most cleric i see just sleep > 3 spark > spam stuff, shell when in danger.

p.s. Heart of steel looks like a yellow bubble/ half sun, don't shoot when its up.
balance makes a weird yinyangy thing around user (when cast)
TE should only be one hit but also a bubble around user

vs archer I like to play w/ range alot.
if they immobilize (aim low) i love purifying and either holypathin to or away from them (assuming you wont die to the next hit, shell should be up). i like getting close enough to 1/2 ranged dmg and then slowing/immobilzing. ofc any archer worth a woven fang arrow will be spamming WoG, so be creative and survive until you can cast status on them. xD

Jellytoast - Sanctuary · April 2011

Ah thanks for that.

I'm hoping to get seal of the gods soon, but not sure when. >.< Does anyone know about the other 100 skill elven boon? It seems it has no cast time, so is it a good skill in pk?

GdByeElsA - Sanctuary · April 2011

running will help for survival! you see people coming to u within 50 meters, its a good time to start running away!

if they get too close and u think u cant out run them, give them a sleep or seal and go back to running!

edit: but it is quite difficult to gain experience in pk nowadays as you don't see it that often anymore. But besides TW, Dragon temple is a nice place to practice pk and you don't lose anything, way less costly than regular pk, you sometimes dont even need a charm!!!

if you do get charm, and u have high survivability, ur charm gonna cry

Ruvil - Sanctuary · April 2011

but you cant "run" in DT b:sin

Gorgonnia - Heavens Tear · May 2011

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Np, but don't let soulburn keep you from winning a fight.

Attacking while soulburned is a bad idea, but it doesn't mean you instantly die. If you have almost full hp and your charm hasn't ticked, and you think 1 more plume shot will finish the psy, go for it.

Depends on the psy you're fighting... my soulburn ticks at 7k's... prolly a one shot for most people.

PVP tactics are to be based on who you're fighting. If you fight a lvl90 psy with 16k soulforce, their soulburn will do nothing and nor will theirs soul of retailiation. Now fight a psy with 50k soulforce... A cleric tried tempest on me while I had Soul of Retailiation on... she got hit for 16.5k reflect dmg.

You have to be versatile. Don't think that the same PVP technique will work the same against everyone in a single class.

Jellytoast - Sanctuary · May 2011

Gorgonnia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Depends on the psy you're fighting... my soulburn ticks at 7k's... prolly a one shot for most people.

PVP tactics are to be based on who you're fighting. If you fight a lvl90 psy with 16k soulforce, their soulburn will do nothing and nor will theirs soul of retailiation. Now fight a psy with 50k soulforce... A cleric tried tempest on me while I had Soul of Retailiation on... she got hit for 16.5k reflect dmg.

You have to be versatile. Don't think that the same PVP technique will work the same against everyone in a single class.

Okay wow, lol. Does anyone have a picture of the soulburn icon or can describe so I can watch for it? I have 7k hp right now with barb buff, but my gear isn't anywhere near being done.

Gorgonnia - Heavens Tear · May 2011

Jellytoast - Sanctuary wrote: »

Okay wow, lol. Does anyone have a picture of the soulburn icon or can describe so I can watch for it? I have 7k hp right now with barb buff, but my gear isn't anywhere near being done.

Ull know when a psychic is soulburning u cuz ull see a weird swinging + hands moving in the air + purple skulls all around the psychic... then the skulls are shot at you... poom you're soulburnt!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m906GJI3jy4

check this vid. Order of psy skills used: Soul of stunning (then flies at the cleric), disturb soul to increase channeling, sage chi skill, soulburn (notice the icon that appears on the target), glacial shards.

LinneaGrace - Lost City · June 2011

Jellytoast - Sanctuary wrote: »

Is that all? I actually went pking for the first time ever today, and had tons of fun. (Stopped cause some people started taking it too seriously -.-) I had my faction there as well and everyone had a lot of fun, but noticed the sins wouldn't stop killing me. And I had no way to combat them, since by the time I noticed I was dead.

Right after the sin stuns u hit domaine. Hopefully u have enough hp to tank it for sec. When your out of stun kite, sleep, put up plume shell, spark, kill.

Cleric in pvp/pk

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