So, that cleric/barb extinction thing

Shasynn - Heavens Tear

I open a thread time ago about that, and people tell me I'm foolish.

I think that the PWI's sistem of game, with a lot of bosses and where to do ANYTHING you need Cleric and a Barbar IT'S WRONG

1) High level simple quest give you ridicolous exp and ridicolous money...USELESS....why??????

2) BH, FB, FF, TT and so on are UNPLAYABLE without Clerics and Tanker.

3) Cleric and Barb are classes extremly expansive, so nobody like play them.

4) Some Classes (archer, psychic, wizard) are UNUSEFUL and nobody search them for squad....Who choice these classes is damned to be a player of second level.

5) People can't wait HOURS and HOURS to find a Cleric and a Barbar to play!!!!!!!!!!
I work and I can't be logged a lot of time to wait. And a lot of people are like me.

I said only what all people in PWI know.

Now I expect the usual boring answers of people that said I mistake and I not be able to play.

_Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

my son, who is a barb in his mid 70s, has pretty much pulled out of the game, because of how hard it is to get anyone to squad with. he has played this as long as i have-since nearly the beginning, and is just as disheartened by how the barb and veno seem to be dissed by those assembling squads for BHs,FBs, whatever, in favour of anyone with claws and high DPS.

there is a major problem going on here: the fact that people are looking for only one thing-doing the instance as fast as possible, and not taking time to simply enjoy the game. a good comparison would be speed chess vs traditional play. yeah, people get a kick out of a few rounds of speed, but the game that gets played the most is the original form. well, seems to me that people here have discovered a 'speed chess' way of playing PWI,, but its not as relaxing or fun as the original form. and wining everything....when i first started, people had a saying about players who insisted on wine 'wine is for whiners'. in other words, real players go for the whole enchilada, cleaning out the dungeon on their own, with the skills, getting the drops and coin, and in general having more fun, than an "Indy 500" run through Wraith,FC or whatever.

my son and i, ok, we're 'oldtimers', and play the game as it was originally set up. kind of like that old TV commercial for a bank:"We make money the old-fashioned way: We EARN it"

You've been playing since the beginning and He is only in his 70's and you are only in your 80's? lolol.

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

Lupumid - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm well aware he won't be tanking, i never said it succeeded, just said it happened that way.

Why not just take 4 sins, a BM and a barb?

i was going for equivalency to what you stated. i assumed that you as a barb would prefer to go with 2 sins (in response to the person above who was a sin and would prefer to go with barb + bm). my choice as barb would be to go with a sin + bm rather than 2 sins. as for 4 sins 1 bm, id have to do some play testing or math to see if that is actually better than 2 bms + 3 sin. Back to back self sparked HFs makes for a lot of damage potential. anywho.. Id honeslty prefer to at least have a cleric in the squad so it would generally be BM + Barb + Cleric + high damage dealers

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear

i like having barbs and clerics in my runs no matter what it is, most of them are nicer than the aps addicted cash shopping sins

how sucessfull my run is dependes on the amount of laughs, not the coin made; this is a game

Joshcja - Sanctuary

I like how the level 70 barb cant get a squad at a level where APS classes are virtually nonfactor due to a lack of interval gear and barbs are still the ideal tank

To those of you crying about how hard it is to find a barb for fcc.... use a bm that knows how to play?

*poofs to the realm of nonQQ*

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Shasynn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I open a thread time ago about that, and people tell me I'm foolish.

I think that the PWI's sistem of game, with a lot of bosses and where to do ANYTHING you need Cleric and a Barbar IT'S WRONG

1) High level simple quest give you ridicolous exp and ridicolous money...USELESS....why??????

2) BH, FB, FF, TT and so on are UNPLAYABLE without Clerics and Tanker.

3) Cleric and Barb are classes extremly expansive, so nobody like play them.

4) Some Classes (archer, psychic, wizard) are UNUSEFUL and nobody search them for squad....Who choice these classes is damned to be a player of second level.

5) People can't wait HOURS and HOURS to find a Cleric and a Barbar to play!!!!!!!!!!
I work and I can't be logged a lot of time to wait. And a lot of people are like me.

I said only what all people in PWI know.

Now I expect the usual boring answers of people that said I mistake and I not be able to play.

lolwat

I did a BH39 on my Sin yesterday. After some help on Farren from some friends, it was just myself and a Mystic. We duoed the entire rest of the instance, mobs and bosses. I tanked, she healed. Granted, I had cleric buffs, but it was very doable without a Cleric and Barb after that.

I've also done BH59 completely solo on my Veno. No pet at all.

I just tanked BH51 on my BM, in fact, with a Mystic healing. Nobody died except the wiz when I used the wrong axes. XD I even used Calamities for most of the run, and Zerk did more damage to me than most of the rest of the mobs... (JUST turned 70, TT70 armor, Calamaties, Dark flash, TT70 sword, Axes, and pole, just wanted to clear off BH51 from my list.)

Yogaxpto - Dreamweaver

+1 to that

Shasynn - Heavens Tear

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

lolwat

I did a BH39 on my Sin yesterday. After some help on Farren from some friends, it was just myself and a Mystic. We duoed the entire rest of the instance, mobs and bosses. I tanked, she healed. Granted, I had cleric buffs, but it was very doable without a Cleric and Barb after that.

I've also done BH59 completely solo on my Veno. No pet at all.

I just tanked BH51 on my BM, in fact, with a Mystic healing. Nobody died except the wiz when I used the wrong axes. XD I even used Calamities for most of the run, and Zerk did more damage to me than most of the rest of the mobs... (JUST turned 70, TT70 armor, Calamaties, Dark flash, TT70 sword, Axes, and pole, just wanted to clear off BH51 from my list.)

This is the usual answer I jet read and read when I posed the question time ago.

Me...Me...Me...Only a sequence of boast

So...NOW YOU ANSWER THIS PLEASE:

Why every day chat is full of messages of research about Clerics and Barbs????

Why there are a lot of people who wait hours and hours on the platform to play a FF run or a BH run???? Are they a lot of stupid????

Answer that and dont tell me what you are be able to do. Your performances dont interst me for notining.

tweakz

The best P-levelers appeared to me to be Barbs by far. They could make a killing doing it at ~5m per run. I'd also much rather roll with a Barb that rounds up mobs for AoE in BH's like SoT and Aba than a BM or Sin who thinks they pwn because of their 1-1 dps.

I never would have guessed I'd like playing cleric or that I could do it well. I don't really notice a shortage of clerics, and feel they are great for DD, buffs, debuffs, and res. I'd much rather have a Cleric alt with L11 res than a Mystic with res buff.

Neither Barb or Cleric are necessities (no class is), but both are luxuries if exploited.

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

I'd also much rather roll with a Barb that rounds up mobs for AoE in BH's like SoT and Aba than a BM or Sin who thinks they pwn because of their 1-1 dps.

its hard to do even that as a barb since many players even at 100 have a single target dps mentality. I'll try to round mobs up for AoE but by the time I've gotten to the second mob, someone is already auto attacking the first. Or when doing the old BH 3-3 when I try to round up the room to zhen the mobs, the archer is fisting on mobs instead of using BoA. WTF? DD classes that use their AoE attacks seem to be a rarity these days outside of FC lol. Even a lot of BM's seem not to use axe's for aoes in delta anymore - just single target fisting.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Who does SoT or Abaddon unwined anyways?

ClericMD - Lost City

Barbs are in extintion, i did like 40+ frost in a row to get 100 (dont want go to a frost for a very long time) I got a lot of diferent squads and no one was with a barb, only bms, sins, sometimes seekers, venos or wizard, no psychic and I remeber 2 runs with a archer.

For 85 to 95 the problem always was find a puller seeker and bms can do this but still hard find one, in 95+ was easy find puller and in 98+ every bm or seeker can pull and frost was very fast.

I get 100 2 days ago, i already did 2 Nirvana run 1 bh 100 and one fb 100, and you want know my opinion:

This game is only for bms and sins, no more.

In NV I barelly need heal someone in bh boss died so fast that I only use some irons that tank really dont need, even in frosy i noticed that i really dont need heal the squads.

A full aps squad dont need a cleric they even need charm just hp food, i was lucky i got that lot of squads and very lucky that still finidng some squads for nv, but i feel like i am no neccesary anymore.

I like be cleric, always was fun, you never get bored you heal, dd, run XD, and people always need a good cleric, but now they only need get 3.33 aps sage bp and no more cleric is need.

I have a friend 101 level wizard ask to squad to invite to NV they say no, same for mystics, venos etc... so yeah this game is for bms and sins.

is sad but really aps are ruin this game, yea a aps squad do a NV run in 15 or less but i dont see any fun in that.

I like this game in the start because it had a very balance system of class, each class use to had a funtion in squad, barb: tank. cleric: heal, venos: lure dd, tank pet for emergencys, bms: dd pull aoe, archers and wizards for dd. Squads was very cools.

But now squads are only bm or sin, bm or sin, sin or bm, bm or sin, bm or sin, cleric (optional) better get a sin with sage bp.

My advice? get some very good friends for your bhs, for do nirvanas, Hhs, etc. if you no are a bm or a sin forget about get random squad. A squad with no aps damage, like wizards,psychic,archers, venos a barb and on cleric can do a NV run in 20-25 min, still fun, still worthy, and you can trsut your frieds dont will cheat you.

well this is my opion hope someone read it.

PD. bms and sins need aps dor do that, and aps are cost so they need get lots of coins the fast way is cashoper, this is more money for pw so aps is very wrothy, all others class can get decent damage without expend tons of coins... so i dont think we ever get a balance game again.

PD2 i want the barb's hp buff back i miss had almost 6k of hp b:cry

PD3 sorry for my bad english b:surrender

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

Meh, I like being one of the fewer barbs left. Makes finding squads fecking easy.

SinfuINature - Harshlands

if sins and bm dont really want anyone else in NV with them... well then why dont all the all the other classes (barb, veno, wiz, psy, cleric, archer, mystic and seeker) RUN YOUR OWN NV... just team up lol nothing is stopping you from making this happen except yourself... the real reason is that you want it run fast also to make more coin or get more matts... aps doesnt stop you from playing your class end game... it stops you from playing your class like other classes end game...

Tsukyini - Raging Tide

Shasynn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is the usual answer I jet read and read when I posed the question time ago.

Me...Me...Me...Only a sequence of boast

So...NOW YOU ANSWER THIS PLEASE:

Why every day chat is full of messages of research about Clerics and Barbs????

Why there are a lot of people who wait hours and hours on the platform to play a FF run or a BH run???? Are they a lot of stupid????

Answer that and dont tell me what you are be able to do. Your performances dont interst me for notining.

In pretty much every MMORPG I've ever played, a tank and a healer were necessary for virtually anything that required a full party. The problem in this game is that there is (generally speaking) only one tank class (barb) and one healer class (cleric), while in other games multiple classes can fill those roles, and which one you pick depends on your playstyle preference.

Granted, there is now some wiggle room in the healing department with the introduction of mystics, and at higher levels a *tank* isn't always necessary. But for a good chunk of it, barbs are the tanks and clerics are the healers, and if people who would possibly enjoy tanking or healing don't like the playstyles of those particular classes, they're likely to roll something else.

Also, many barbs and clerics prefer to run with people they know and like, as opposed to running with random groups. This can lead to a perceived shortage of them, when it isn't necessarily true. There's just a shortage of them who are willing to run with a group where it's like russian roulette as to whether the group will be good or a nightmare.

TigerLily - Lost City

SinfuINature - Harshlands wrote: »

if sins and bm dont really want anyone else in NV with them... well then why dont all the all the other classes (barb, veno, wiz, psy, cleric, archer, mystic and seeker) RUN YOUR OWN NV... just team up lol nothing is stopping you from making this happen except yourself... the real reason is that you want it run fast also to make more coin or get more matts... aps doesnt stop you from playing your class end game... it stops you from playing your class like other classes end game...

The thing is a full 5.0+10 Sin/BM squad does NV in 5-7 minutes, making it really profitable. A squad with barb tanking, cleric healing, a few random DDs (non APS), needs around 30-35 minutes. Probably even more if all DDs are casters or bow users. Its not even worth going to Nirvana when it takes that much time to finish 1 run.

Of course all the un-wanted classes "should" run NV together, but it would suck for them doing it. Do you realize how many times they would get sealed and messed up during those 30-35 minutes.

I only do 5.0 squads if i run Nirvana and than i go on my assassin. I would go crazy doing it with any other type of quad and playing something with less than 5.0 aps. With the random aggro and AOE seal, the instance isn't made for ranged DDs or longer boss fights anymore. So its not really fair telling non aps classes to run NV together, since they would have to put in x5 times more effort and time doing the same instance.

Quilue - Sanctuary

That's why it was stupid for Nirv to be made harder in the first place. People QQed that 5.0s ran Nirv too easily, then PWI decided to kick them in the balls with that update.

Same with 3-x TT TBH. Good luck running that profitably with a regular squad.

tweakz

It seems the same 1-1 mentality includes a "nirvana is all" mentality. Barbs are making ~5m+ per hour PLeveling in FF w/o double drops, and they do a hella better job than the Sins I saw doing it. AoE is still where it's at and it's part of how Venos can still be great money makers without any squad dependencies.

Xyleena - Heavens Tear

Meh I quit the game..... So one less Cleric around, lol. I just became bored of the same stuffs. I never had trouble getting runs as a cleric... ever. Wasn't replaced by a Mystic..and even if I was thats what the friends list is for. Oh and creating your own party helps A LOT... people won't "take" you? Take yourself... Throw up a world chat "Seeking such and such clases for this and that instance!" >.>;;; Tada simple.

As for missing out on barbs and clerics, well now you have off-tanks and off-healer classes. You don't need traditional ones.

VenoAtHeart - Dreamweaver

Eh I only read the first page or so, mainly the stuff about FCC.

I have noticed good seekers with BP can do pulls and kill said pulls without BB, without a mystic as well. I've heard reports of Sin/Seeker duos running FC with no problems at 95+. It's still nice to have a cleric though, for the rest of the squad. Most mystics I've come across either seem to want to play healer or DD and not do both, or if they do both, it's not very well. I have almost never run FC with a Barb and to be honest I'd rather not run with a barb, and it's not a speed thing it's the shear fact that every time I've run with a barb there's countless squad wipes.

Also, I saw some people saying it's hard for venos to get FCC squads and that they're getting snubbed. I have not had a single problem with getting FCC for my veno and I start her in there at lvl80. I get invited to at least 5 or 6 FCCs a day and that's not including people asking me if I'm forming one.

I really think a lot of the issues with classes going extinct is the players themselves. If the cleric is just going to sit in the back and heal why get a cleric when you can grab a mystic that can heal and DD (provided they know what the heck they're doing). Most squad wipes I've seen have come from Barbs thinking they're beast and not knowing what to do with it. Venos... Gah... I've kicked venos out of my squads before because they're generally so lazy it's not even funny. When I play my veno in FCC I'm tanking bosses, amping, bramble to the puller, sparking people constantly, and DDing. Any time I've run on a different char and we've had a veno... Not even an Amp.

My 2cents

PS: Hey Tearle ^^

Tearle - Dreamweaver

VenoAtHeart - Dreamweaver wrote: »

PS: Hey Tearle ^^

Hey babe, haven't been on as much lately because of school but i'll pm you next time i'm on ^_^