Frenzy On Genie Yay Or Nay

/Hysteria/ - Dreamweaver

ive been playing pwi for about 2 years now and im on like my 3rd wizzie cuz i enjoy levling them alot more than other chars, plus on this one imma tw unlike my other ones, but anyway all that aside im kinda stuck. I asked a dozen or so high lvl wiz friends and the reaction was 50/50. half said frenzy is a must have and the other half said its the most useless wiz skill ever, none went into detail though. ive read the skill description and can see where indeed it seems like itd have some very handy situations. but i want a bit more knowledge before i pull the trigger. so im asking you my fellow wizzies, is frenzy an important skill to have or not, any really useful situations you encounter with it???? thanks.

Elendria - Dreamweaver

The wizis that told you that this skill is completely useless, either have no TW experience, or are completely clueless. Maybe if they don't run around with the jones blessing and face players with at least 40 def lvls this skill might be useless.

But with everyone running around with Jones Blessing that gives you 30 attack lvl basis, frenzy gives you for a few seconds another 20 attack lvl on top. So if you suddenly attack another player with 50 attack lvl of course you will hit harder.

What your wizi friends probably ment was that they prefer other skills in TW to increase their survivability instead of using frenzy to hit harder. With genie skills it is the same as with your regular wizi skills. It always depends on the situation you are in.

If you have a lot of your own people around you taking the fire, you are free to hit an aoe, use frenzy and kill a bunch of people instantly. But if you find yourself suddenly all alone on the battlefield as your ppl around you died, you might instead think of absolute domain or apoth and holy path to get out of there as fast as possible.

But yeah if you are free to fire, frenzy can give you godly dmg b:dirty

/Hysteria/ - Dreamweaver

Elendria - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The wizis that told you that this skill is completely useless, either have no TW experience, or are completely clueless. Maybe if they don't run around with the jones blessing and face players with at least 40 def lvls this skill might be useless.

But with everyone running around with Jones Blessing that gives you 30 attack lvl basis, frenzy gives you for a few seconds another 20 attack lvl on top. So if you suddenly attack another player with 50 attack lvl of course you will hit harder.

What your wizi friends probably ment was that they prefer other skills in TW to increase their survivability instead of using frenzy to hit harder. With genie skills it is the same as with your regular wizi skills. It always depends on the situation you are in.

If you have a lot of your own people around you taking the fire, you are free to hit an aoe, use frenzy and kill a bunch of people instantly. But if you find yourself suddenly all alone on the battlefield as your ppl around you died, you might instead think of absolute domain or apoth and holy path to get out of there as fast as possible.

But yeah if you are free to fire, frenzy can give you godly dmg b:dirty

thx for the info, ill def have the suvrvival skills on my genie as i always do but that attack boost sounds damn sexy specially for tw

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

I think a good rule of thumb is that a genie needs to be more heavily weighted for survival for pk, and more heavily weighted to amp damage for TW. Any good genie will have a little bit of both, of course.

I think frenzy isn't necessarily a MUST have, since alot depends on how you play, even within the limited context of TW only. Do you look for groups or hunt single targets? Do you support catas or defend the base? All that makes a difference.

Generally speaking though, I think its hard to go wrong with frenzy as a wizard, particularly in TW. Unlike extreme poison, it amps damage for everyone in the range of an aoe, not just a single target. And it doesn't lower your defenses.

If you pk, or usually find yourself targeting the harder to kill single targets in TW, extreme poison might be a better choice to some, since it not only amps your damage on that target, but everyone elses . . . .

See adroits genie thread. Its the most comprehensive location of genie-speak for wizards on the forums. Disorganized and a somewhat burdensome to sift through (not his fault, of course, its a thread - lets see if I can avert his trolling in advance), but worth the read if you are looking for a place to start getting the gist of how to build a genie for an end game wizard.

The best is to just experiment. See what skills are on your genie that you never seem to use (either because the opportunity doesn't present itself, or because you use other skills alot more and your genie is always on cooldown) - then swap those out for others, or think about changing out the big energy draining skills and see if you can live without using them so you get more use out of the others skills. I used to have second wind and/or tree of protection on my genie, and they saved me a good bit of the time, but more and more I would go through even 3 hour TWs and not have clicked on them once so I dumped them. And Adroit in particular seems to be an advocate of dumping high energy skills and using only those with low energy cost so you can spam the skills.

Of couse, a good all purpose genie thats pretty easy to get is just one with holy path, absolute domain, any damage amp, then pick anything else you like and can fit within those affinities. You might always be able to customize to better suit your needs or play style, but with that base its hard to go terribly wrong.

/Hysteria/ - Dreamweaver

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

I think a good rule of thumb is that a genie needs to be more heavily weighted for survival for pk, and more heavily weighted to amp damage for TW. Any good genie will have a little bit of both, of course.

I think frenzy isn't necessarily a MUST have, since alot depends on how you play, even within the limited context of TW only. Do you look for groups or hunt single targets? Do you support catas or defend the base? All that makes a difference.

Generally speaking though, I think its hard to go wrong with frenzy as a wizard, particularly in TW. Unlike extreme poison, it amps damage for everyone in the range of an aoe, not just a single target. And it doesn't lower your defenses.

If you pk, or usually find yourself targeting the harder to kill single targets in TW, extreme poison might be a better choice to some, since it not only amps your damage on that target, but everyone elses . . . .

See adroits genie thread. Its the most comprehensive location of genie-speak for wizards on the forums. Disorganized and a somewhat burdensome to sift through (not his fault, of course, its a thread - lets see if I can avert his trolling in advance), but worth the read if you are looking for a place to start getting the gist of how to build a genie for an end game wizard.

The best is to just experiment. See what skills are on your genie that you never seem to use (either because the opportunity doesn't present itself, or because you use other skills alot more and your genie is always on cooldown) - then swap those out for others, or think about changing out the big energy draining skills and see if you can live without using them so you get more use out of the others skills. I used to have second wind and/or tree of protection on my genie, and they saved me a good bit of the time, but more and more I would go through even 3 hour TWs and not have clicked on them once so I dumped them. And Adroit in particular seems to be an advocate of dumping high energy skills and using only those with low energy cost so you can spam the skills.

Of couse, a good all purpose genie thats pretty easy to get is just one with holy path, absolute domain, any damage amp, then pick anything else you like and can fit within those affinities. You might always be able to customize to better suit your needs or play style, but with that base its hard to go terribly wrong.

thx for the info didnt even see that thread until now, alot of interesting info there for sure

skysing

Before when there wasnt +30 attack lvl Jone Bless and most player gear were pretty average, Frenzy was good. But now a day frenzy doesnt really add 20% to ur damage anymore. Not as useful anymore.

Saeidon - Heavens Tear

@ Elendria: Your understanding of attack and defense levels needs a bit of brushing up. Things like the Jones Blessings are exactly what makes Frenzy a less useful skill now.

If noone had Jones blessings and everyone had 40 defense levels, Frenzy would be incredible. As it is, while I do still love Frenzy for group pvp, you do need to know your target to figure out if it will be that effective.

If you have 100 attack levels from an R9 set, then you probably wont need it against someone with 0 defense levels. If you are shooting at a full JoSD R9'er with 70 defense levels, Frenzy will help a lot still help a lot. If you only have the attack levels from a Jones Blessing (and even more so if you use an Anni blessing) then Frenzy will still help a lot on all targets, and it will help a huge huge amount on people with high def levels.

Pretty much Frenzy is useful imo, particularly for group pvp. Just know your targets, and you'll know when to use it.

Sun_Burn - Lost City

skysing wrote: »

Before when there wasnt +30 attack lvl Jone Bless and most player gear were pretty average, Frenzy was good. But now a day frenzy doesnt really add 20% to ur damage anymore. Not as useful anymore.

Why? Does Frenzy suffer from diminishing returns or something? As far as I understand you still would deal 20% more damage.

Say you have a jones blessing and you gush someone for 1,300 (to keep it a simple number) if you Frenzy you should deal 20% more than what you would deal without blessing. So with frenzy + Jones you would deal 1500. Now if we keep the number realistic you deal say 3,000 with gush without blessing or frenzy , thats 3900 with a blessing and 4400 with frenzy + blessing. That 500 damage difference a decent increase in damage for the 8 seconds that Frenzy lasts, not to mention crit differences.

3900x2=7,800 crit
vs
4400x2=8,800 crit
That could be the difference between a 1shot, or a charm tick vs a charm bypass.

So based on that, Id say Frenzy is a top priority as long as you don't sacrifice survival skills to get it. Especially in TWs.

/Hysteria/ - Dreamweaver

once again thx all for input, ill def have my surivival skills on my genie too but frenzy is sounding more and more like something id like to have also. b:victory

MageFizban - Lost City

Frenzy is nice to use for wizzes right when you are about to finish casting your ultis in TW. Then you have the least chance of getting interrupted out of it / facerolled because frenzy essentially kills your defenses.

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

I think a good rule of thumb is that a genie needs to be more heavily weighted for survival for pk, and more heavily weighted to amp damage for TW. Any good genie will have a little bit of both, of course.

I think frenzy isn't necessarily a MUST have, since alot depends on how you play, even within the limited context of TW only. Do you look for groups or hunt single targets? Do you support catas or defend the base? All that makes a difference.

Generally speaking though, I think its hard to go wrong with frenzy as a wizard, particularly in TW. Unlike extreme poison, it amps damage for everyone in the range of an aoe, not just a single target. And it doesn't lower your defenses.

I stoped reading there (partially cause I have to go, partially cause I can't stand such a balant lie)
Frenzy drops your defences by 100% of equipment vallue. You are a 1shot when you frenzy

Harrydresden - Raging Tide

In my own opinion and experience, frenzy is best used only in tw where u are not as focused as in pk when u drop an aoe (using under the effects of appoc makes it very safe, eg. IG, sutra, etc) or using frenzy during the pve events such as the tiger event where you only want to increase your own dmg but no one else (like why a bm doesnt hf during the event)

Using frenzy in world pk is jus too risky as the amp is only 20% and EP is also 20% costs less energy lasts longer with high dexterity and is safer

skysing

Sun_Burn - Lost City wrote: »

Why? Does Frenzy suffer from diminishing returns or something? As far as I understand you still would deal 20% more damage.

Say you have a jones blessing and you gush someone for 1,300 (to keep it a simple number) if you Frenzy you should deal 20% more than what you would deal without blessing. So with frenzy + Jones you would deal 1500. Now if we keep the number realistic you deal say 3,000 with gush without blessing or frenzy , thats 3900 with a blessing and 4400 with frenzy + blessing. That 500 damage difference a decent increase in damage for the 8 seconds that Frenzy lasts, not to mention crit differences.

3900x2=7,800 crit
vs
4400x2=8,800 crit
That could be the difference between a 1shot, or a charm tick vs a charm bypass.

So based on that, Id say Frenzy is a top priority as long as you don't sacrifice survival skills to get it. Especially in TWs.

Just to keep it simple.
without blessing +30 attack lvl, attack lvl at 0
You hit someone with gush for 3,000 damage
with 30 attack lvl from blessing, you hit 3,900
now add frenzy in, you will hit 4,500

If u have +30 attack blessing, using frenzy will just add another 15.3% damage more. Not 20%. Of course some might find it useful, some might not. For me I dont find it useful sacrifice all my defence for 15.3% damage increase. Those are just the number use on people with +30 attack level from blessing.

Look at people with nirvana gear that have attack level more than 30%, they'll get less and less from frenzy.
Now look at people with rank 9 set = 95-100% attack level. Frenzy would just add another 10% more damage for them.

What I am trying to say is, if your attack level is already high, frenzy will have dimishing return. I just dont feel it worth it.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

skysing wrote: »

Just to keep it simple.
without blessing +30 attack lvl, attack lvl at 0
You hit someone with gush for 3,000 damage
with 30 attack lvl from blessing, you hit 3,900
now add frenzy in, you will hit 4,500

If u have +30 attack blessing, using frenzy will just add another 15.3% damage more. Not 20%. Of course some might find it useful, some might not. For me I dont find it useful sacrifice all my defence for 15.3% damage increase. Those are just the number use on people with +30 attack level from blessing.

Look at people with nirvana gear that have attack level more than 30%, they'll get less and less from frenzy.
Now look at people with rank 9 set = 95-100% attack level. Frenzy would just add another 10% more damage for them.

What I am trying to say is, if your attack level is already high, frenzy will have dimishing return. I just dont feel it worth it.

Wait, what about the damage % increase from 3k to 4.5k

Attack level has diminishing returns if you look at it from that perspective, but in a sense, it doesnt.

/Hysteria/ - Dreamweaver

yeah im still undecided, not sure i like the resistances lowered part so much, jus figured itd be nice to have another option besides extreme poison, hmm dunno <.<

Nurfed_You - Harshlands

Frenzy becomes more useful when your fighting someone with high defense lvl. Say you ahve a jones blessing and they ahve 30 defense lvl. Tht would basically be your raw attack vs their raw defenses. Add frenzy it will be 20% more damage xpoison will do roughly the same thing, could be enough to give you the edge needed. I would definately use xpoison in an instance like this

However, if you have 0 atk lvl and your opponent has 20 defense lvl, you will hit for 20% less then your normal damage. In this case frenzy would make you hit for yoru raw atk damage where as xpoison would only amp your gimped damage by 20%. (which wouldnt be hitting hard as frenzy)

I have xpoison and frenzy both on my genie. I use xpoison about 60% of the time. I only frenzy vs groups or full nirvana/r9. Most of the time i only frenzy in solo pvp if im desperate to bypass my opponents charm when they have +defense lvl

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I stoped reading there (partially cause I have to go, partially cause I can't stand such a balant lie)
Frenzy drops your defences by 100% of equipment vallue. I am a 1shot when I frenzy

fixed it for you.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

/Hysteria/ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

thx for the info didnt even see that thread until now, alot of interesting info there for sure

yea, somewhere along the way someone should pull all that info into one thread so people can actually find it. Nah, people would probably just troll the attempt before it was even started.

Adroit - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

yea, somewhere along the way someone should pull all that info into one thread so people can actually find it. Nah, people would probably just troll the attempt before it was even started.

it is in one thread

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

it is in one thread

where noone (apparently, see OP) can find it

and stop reading my posts. you promised

Adroit - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

where noone (apparently, see OP) can find it

and stop reading my posts. you promised

one person =/= everyone
and I never promised to stop reading your posts. You're delusional.

Cheze - Lost City

frenzy is more useful the closer ur atk lvl is to their def lvl. if you have 30 atk lvl vs someone with 100 def lvl, frenzy would probably add only 10-13% damage. same if u have 100 atk lvl vs someone with 30 or less def lvl.