Suttra combos (Demon style)

AsimM - Raging Tide

So hi, I'm AsimM and I'm a demon wiz and stuff. I'm here to address the topic a certain invincible combination available after our OP selves gain the 3.9 sparks. My awesome combo is:

Sophoric Whisper>Undine Strike>Force of Will>Suttra combo (Depending on class).

This seems to work on almost anything. Nobody can run, or avoid this because it's so OP. The only thing they can do is that the elves put up Shell, which enables them to survive, magically. It also doesn't work on meelee characters (Such as Barbs) because you tend to use chi to Distant Shrink away, but it can be solved with Holy Path. So here's another combo I learned (but isn't recommended in combat):

Demon spark (Or Sage spark)>Cloud Eruption (Genie skill)>Undine Strike>BIDS;BT;MS

It one-hits most stuff, have to tell you. The most your enemy can do is use an invincible pot, or (Elves) can put Shell up. Even with Shell, it'll hurt, trust me. This, I will warn you, takes quite some time to cast, so use it when your enemy is distracted by your awesome sidekick. Or use it to gank some peeps, I guarantee almost 99.9%, they'll go "Wtf?" or "Which awesome OP wizard killed me?." No not really that other one, but you get the point.


So here's what I ask of you awesome folks::::::::::

WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE COMBO?

Sun_Burn - Lost City

AsimM - Raging Tide wrote: »

So hi, I'm AsimM and I'm a demon wiz and stuff. I'm here to address the topic a certain invincible combination available after our OP selves gain the 3.9 sparks. My awesome combo is:

Sophoric Whisper>Undine Strike>Force of Will>Suttra combo (Depending on class).

This seems to work on almost anything. Nobody can run, or avoid this because it's so OP. The only thing they can do is that the elves put up Shell, which enables them to survive, magically. It also doesn't work on meelee characters (Such as Barbs) because you tend to use chi to Distant Shrink away, but it can be solved with Holy Path. So here's another combo I learned (but isn't recommended in combat):

Demon spark (Or Sage spark)>Cloud Eruption (Genie skill)>Undine Strike>BIDS;BT;MS

It one-hits most stuff, have to tell you. The most your enemy can do is use an invincible pot, or (Elves) can put Shell up. Even with Shell, it'll hurt, trust me. This, I will warn you, takes quite some time to cast, so use it when your enemy is distracted by your awesome sidekick. Or use it to gank some peeps, I guarantee almost 99.9%, they'll go "Wtf?" or "Which awesome OP wizard killed me?." No not really that other one, but you get the point.


So here's what I ask of you awesome folks::::::::::

WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE COMBO?

1st combo shouldnt work unless ur opponent either fails or lags, since ur debuff knocks them out of sleep.

2nd combo is such a waste, 1 absolute domain and you just wasted 5 sparks.


Anyways, neither of these combos are yours, they've been used many times before you, i'd say the mostly used lethal combo is undine>FOW>Sutra+Spark genie skill(with high dex genie)+Frenzy or Extreme Poison>Divine pyro>Pyro>Will of Phoenix>Divine pyro.

I really would never try a 3 spark+ulti combo in real pvp, it almost never works unless your fighting an idiot. Sutra + Mountain's Seize followed with some nukes is pretty nice tho.

DaichiOni - Dreamweaver

gush > crit > 20k...

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Both combos fail with a simple absolute domain...


Good sutra combo would be sutra>ms>stone rain>glacial shards

Chances are they're dead after that, unless they're a barb.
But if any of that crit, they're dead no matter what.

A_Cookie - Dreamweaver

undine->demon spark->genie spark skill->BIDS->snare->DP->sandstorm....
undine->demon spark->genie spark skill->sutra->snare->DP->sandstorm.....
undine->sutra->pyro->DP->BIDS->.....
insert sleep/FOW where needed lol

Sun_Burn - Lost City

A_Cookie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

undine->demon spark->genie spark skill->BIDS->snare->DP->sandstorm....fail because of Domain, wasted 5 sparks, your dead because you used all your energy with Cloud eruption

undine->demon spark->genie spark skill->sutra->snare->DP->sandstorm.....fail because of Domain, wasted 5 sparks, your dead because you used all your energy with Cloud eruption

undine->sutra->pyro->DP->BIDS->.....youd be better off using sandstorm+glacial snare, why waste a sutra with a regular pyrogram if your not using the genie skill: 'Spark'? And if you were using spark youd be better off using Blade Tempest if your demon. might as well stack 2 300% damage amplifier nukes before Bids, or Id start off with Bids first right after sutra(use ele shell for the instant chi to get 2 sparks) since after 2 fast hits of regular nukes the other person would probably hit domain, nullifying your BIDS.

insert sleep/FOW where needed lol

10chars.b:surrender

AsimM - Raging Tide

Sun_Burn - Lost City wrote: »

1st combo shouldnt work unless ur opponent either fails or lags, since ur debuff knocks them out of sleep.

2nd combo is such a waste, 1 absolute domain and you just wasted 5 sparks.


Anyways, neither of these combos are yours, they've been used many times before you, i'd say the mostly used lethal combo is undine>FOW>Sutra+Spark genie skill(with high dex genie)+Frenzy or Extreme Poison>Divine pyro>Pyro>Will of Phoenix>Divine pyro.

I really would never try a 3 spark+ulti combo in real pvp, it almost never works unless your fighting an idiot. Sutra + Mountain's Seize followed with some nukes is pretty nice tho.

1st combo actually works fairly well. I defeated an R9 archer in such a way...
The second combo you're absolutely correct. I never use it, unless someone lets me test damage on them, for fun.
Also I know that I did not invent these combos, I simply wanted to list them again for everyone's opnion, and also wanted to know about everyone else's combos.

P.S. I do like that combo, I will use it in PvP whenever possible. I do have all those genie skills.

AsimM - Raging Tide

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Both combos fail with a simple absolute domain...


Good sutra combo would be sutra>ms>stone rain>glacial shards

Chances are they're dead after that, unless they're a barb.
But if any of that crit, they're dead no matter what.

Well of course they do. But it's based on the assumption that the character doesn't have it. Also, I have absolutely no idea why anyone would use Glacial Shards in that combo, unless you're trying to slow down a barb or BM...

Instead of Glacial, I would use (demon) Sandstorm to decrease accuracy + immense damage.
I would agree with that if your opponent was a melee character.

Sun_Burn - Lost City

AsimM - Raging Tide wrote: »

Instead of Glacial, I would use (demon) Sandstorm to decrease accuracy + immense damage.
I would agree with that if your opponent was a melee character.

id keep glacial and remove stone rain for sandstorm, squeeze 2 300% weapon damage skills in the sutra combo for more damage.

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary

Before I post a combo, I'd like to just say that I'm sure every combo has it's weakness.

In fact, AD *can* **** up just about any combo at a key point.

That's why I'd not use any major combo unless I know their genie isn't at full energy (i.e. just used holy path or ep etc).

Considering this, I have 2 combos I really like:

1) Sutra, FoW, Undine, Pyro, MS, SR, gush, sleep, shrink, glacial (add frenzy, ep whenever I feel necessary)

2) Triple Spark (I'm sage, but demons might not find this as useful), antistun pot, ce, sutra, dp, pyro, sr, dp

Adroit - Lost City

these combos blow. The only ones that are even worth mentioning were from Sun_Burn.. its just to easy to stop the others.. and you should be using the minimum necessary resources to kill or force a defensive skill. I personally like genie spark with a sutra combo, or sleep -> ulti as they only take 2 sparks (as opposed to 4+ in many of these combos.. not to mention they'd also require either apoth or a substantial amount of genie energy to pull off.. as well as both control skills) If you use more offensive skills than I do defensive in a "combo".. you shouldn't use it. So if you use both FoW + Sleep and all your chi and most of your genie energy, and I can stop it with a simple domain (i.e. just my genie energy), then I just gained a huge advantage.

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

these combos blow. The only ones that are even worth mentioning were from Sun_Burn.. its just to easy to stop the others.. and you should be using the minimum necessary resources to kill or force a defensive skill. I personally like genie spark with a sutra combo, or sleep -> ulti as they only take 2 sparks (as opposed to 4+ in many of these combos.. not to mention they'd also require either apoth or a substantial amount of genie energy to pull off.. as well as both control skills) If you use more offensive skills than I do defensive in a "combo".. you shouldn't use it. So if you use both FoW + Sleep and all your chi and most of your genie energy, and I can stop it with a simple domain (i.e. just my genie energy), then I just gained a huge advantage.

I agree Sun's combo is great (I haven't ever tried it since I don't have enough LP to give my genie spark), and I agree my combo uses all chi/energy, BUT

As I said in my post, I never use such a big combo UNLESS I know my opponent has already used genie energy and a pot, and the only defensive thing going for them is a charm, meaning that before I would ever use my combo, I'd pressure my opponent into using these defensive skills already so that they would be on c/d.

Without these premises though, yes my combo would be easily counter-able.
But that's why I wrote the first part of my post.
My combo can suck, or can ensure a kill, depending on the timing.

I have several other combo's that use much less energy/chi, but they can never *ensure* that kill nearly as well as the one I decided to share.

Adroit - Lost City

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary wrote: »

I agree Sun's combo is great (I haven't ever tried it since I don't have enough LP to give my genie spark), and I agree my combo uses all chi/energy, BUT

As I said in my post, I never use such a big combo UNLESS I know my opponent has already used genie energy and a pot, and the only defensive thing going for them is a charm, meaning that before I would ever use my combo, I'd pressure my opponent into using these defensive skills already so that they would be on c/d.

Without these premises though, yes my combo would be easily counter-able.
But that's why I wrote the first part of my post.
My combo can suck, or can ensure a kill, depending on the timing.

I have several other combo's that use much less energy/chi, but they can never *ensure* that kill nearly as well as the one I decided to share.

at least you mentioned that you wait for them to use their genie, although I'm not sure how you can force them to use their genie while you haven't used any of your chi or control skills or genie energy. Any good player saves their genie energy/high cooldown skills and whatnot until they really need them, so I don't see your first combo as realistic in pvp at all. The second one is kinda silly, I don't know who sits around after you triple spark.. you have no way to hold them in place so you just wasted all your chi, apoth, etc when all they have to do is drop out of range or holy path out etc etc. Just not practical.

It's very rare that I use up all my resources in one little fight, I usually start out with a sleep -> ulti to force a domain (and usually am able to cancel the ulti when domain pops up) and then not long after am able to finish them off with a sutra combo or the like. I do remember being very happy with myself with a kinda all or nothing combo I pulled out of my a$$ a while back. Had been kiting this bm for ages (not Calvin btw), and I couldn't bypass his charm without a crit (and he was spamming hp pots and mdef charms etc.. so it was getting to be a real pain) and I ended up killing him like 10 mins later with a undine -> sutra -> FoW -> MS -> genie spark -> d.pyro -> pyro -> no channel pot (zooming thunder I think its called) -> wotp -> fortify -> d.pyro -> pyro. Obviously that used up all of my chi (although after all those skills I had like a spark back), my genie energy, AND apoth cooldown (and I had used a sleep -> cancel BIDS to force domain just before this.. so all of my reliable control skills were also on cooldown). If that hadn't worked for some reason.. like if he used an immune apoth instead of trying to stun me.. I'm sure I'd have lost. I think it worked in that circumstance, but as a general rule of thumb.. using everything at the same time is USUALLY a very bad idea. When you do, you better be sure it's going to work lol (as in you know anything that would save them is on cooldown or something..)

edit: so I guess what I'm saying is your first combo is just very very very situational.. and even then its not really a guaranteed kill against a high hp target (5 skills with minor amps). I don't like your second at all.

edit2: lol @ using genie spark and then water/earth skills. Also lol'd at glacial "shards" as that is a psy skill..

skysing

I used this combo most of the time, gain a lot of chi back

Undine>FoW>Sultra>Divine Pyrogram>Pyrogram>Gush>Divine Pyrogram>Sandstorm
Add Fortify in betwen to avoid being stun

Is spark(genie) suppose to do damage? I have a 100 dex genie but when I use spark, the damage is really little. 200-300 damage on a lvl 80 player.

Adroit - Lost City

skysing wrote: »

I used this combo most of the time, gain a lot of chi back

Undine>FoW>Sultra>Divine Pyrogram>Pyrogram>Gush>Divine Pyrogram>Sandstorm
Add Fortify in betwen to avoid being stun

Is spark(genie) suppose to do damage? I have a 100 dex genie but when I use spark, the damage is really little. 200-300 damage on a lvl 80 player.

..................................................
genie spark massively lowers their fire resists (by 100% if you have 100 dex). You don't use spark for the minuscule damage it does itself, you use it for the massive damage you do with fire skills for the 6 seconds after.

skysing

I get it now. So what happen if you have sage Divine Pyrogram (reduce fire resistance by 20%), If were to use in combo with spark. Will the debuff from sage Divine Pyrogram override spark debuff?

Sun_Burn - Lost City

skysing wrote: »

I get it now. So what happen if you have sage Divine Pyrogram (reduce fire resistance by 20%), If were to use in combo with spark. Will the debuff from sage Divine Pyrogram override spark debuff?

^im curious about that as well, i dont have sage D.Pyro yet, but im pretty sure it doesnt override.

AsimM - Raging Tide

Sun_Burn - Lost City wrote: »

id keep glacial and remove stone rain for sandstorm, squeeze 2 300% weapon damage skills in the sutra combo for more damage.

Agreed. Very much.

AsimM - Raging Tide

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary wrote: »

Before I post a combo, I'd like to just say that I'm sure every combo has it's weakness.

In fact, AD *can* **** up just about any combo at a key point.

That's why I'd not use any major combo unless I know their genie isn't at full energy (i.e. just used holy path or ep etc).

Considering this, I have 2 combos I really like:

1) Sutra, FoW, Undine, Pyro, MS, SR, gush, sleep, shrink, glacial (add frenzy, ep whenever I feel necessary)

2) Triple Spark (I'm sage, but demons might not find this as useful), antistun pot, ce, sutra, dp, pyro, sr, dp

I do like your combos, very much. Instead of the anti-stun pots, I use Adrenaline Surge, which resists most forms of sleep. And yes, my combos have a possibility of failing epically.

Adroit - Lost City

Spark is a different debuff than sage d.pyro/undine. Sage D.pyro doesn't stack with undine, but it will with the genie skill spark. The debuffs from sage d.pyro/undine won't override each other, so if one is already "active" the other debuff will do nothing. For example, if you try to use sage d.pyro while the undine debuff is still up, you will still do the normal damage with d.pyro but the debuff on d.pyro will essentially disappear. Just keep that in mind if you are about to go for like a sutra combo.. try not to d.pyro your target before undine.. or you'll be stuck with a 20% debuff for 20 seconds instead of the 60% from undine.

Sun_Burn - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Spark is a different debuff than sage d.pyro/undine. Sage D.pyro doesn't stack with undine, but it will with the genie skill spark. The debuffs from sage d.pyro/undine won't override each other, so if one is already "active" the other debuff will do nothing. For example, if you try to use sage d.pyro while the undine debuff is still up, you will still do the normal damage with d.pyro but the debuff on d.pyro will essentially disappear. Just keep that in mind if you are about to go for like a sutra combo.. try not to d.pyro your target before undine.. or you'll be stuck with a 20% debuff for 20 seconds instead of the 60% from undine.

thats what i figured.

MageFizban - Lost City

AsimM - Raging Tide wrote: »

I do like your combos, very much. Instead of the anti-stun pots, I use Adrenaline Surge, which resists most forms of sleep. And yes, my combos have a possibility of failing epically.

Who would sleep you? Sins? You're dead anyway. Wizards? Lol the sleep is so short not even worth it. And it's not like you can see them casting it/predict it. Mystics? Their plant's sleep is short duration and medium frequency so it wouldn't really help there either. Get out of one just to get put under again a few seconds later.

Seems like a waste.

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

Personally i like sun_burns combos too but i would like one for TW

Mountain Seize (+ genie skills like frenzy ep ...)->Hailstorm->BIDS

requires full chi but when your dmg output is high enough the MS together with the hailstorm
should be enough to get high hp targets close to charm tick while bids finishes off


expel(on enemy) -->sutra -->undine dpyro pyro stonerain

greetz harm0wnie


PS:thx 4 this nice thread finally a interesting one again

DaichiOni - Dreamweaver

I still like the gush one

for some odd reason, if i undine > ep > frenzy > glacial snare, it hits so many people for like 15k. DW is such a terrible server for pvp b:surrender
b:shutupconsidering most of the server dies from a gush critb:surrender

AsimM - Raging Tide

MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »

Who would sleep you? Sins? You're dead anyway. Wizards? Lol the sleep is so short not even worth it. And it's not like you can see them casting it/predict it. Mystics? Their plant's sleep is short duration and medium frequency so it wouldn't really help there either. Get out of one just to get put under again a few seconds later.

Seems like a waste.

You're right, I almost never use it, unless for when I'm facing clerics, who's sleep is worth resisting. Anti-stun pots are definitely better to use in all situations. I've had this skill ever since before the Sins/Psy classes came out, when it was Wizards vs. Clerics instead of Wizards vs. Psy or Wizards vs. Sins.

Sun_Burn - Lost City

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

expel(on enemy) -->sutra -->undine dpyro pyro stonerain

1. Clearly you dont pvp much, everyone knows expel can't be casted on others because of everyone (who isn't an absolute moron) has their neutral buff protection on, resulting in Expel being casted on yourself.

2. why is everyone so obsessed with wasting 2 sparks with sutra and only using normal 100% amplifier low damage nukes (200% with stonerain, w/e)? Do you not realize how much more damage glacial snare/sandstorm does compared to stone rain/pyrogram/gush? When you have instant channeling USE IT WITH YOUR HIGH CHANNEL TIME HEAVY NUKES. And dont use undine 'after' Sutra.. your just wasting time during the few seconds of instant channel that you have.

Adroit - Lost City

@AsimM - why are you recommending combos if you don't even use them yourself?

@Sun - It's even worse than casting expel on yourself, it basically tries to activate on them but fails so you use up your genie energy without it having any effect. It won't cast on yourself.

I used to have a similar idea to you that the best sutra combo was something like d.pyro -> ss -> glacial snare -> d.pyro, but I've actually found that using a 5 skill combo with "weaker" skills is actually just as good if not better. I almost always use genie spark in my sutra combo.. so its nearly always an undine -> sutra -> genie spark -> d.pyro -> pyro -> wotp -> d.pyro -> pyro (and depending on my target usually add in a fortify/FoW before the combo or something). I haven't really done the math, but I get the feeling a 5 skill damage with smaller skills (like d.pyro -> pyro -> gush -> d.pyro -> pyro) would do more damage than the earlier combo with ss/glacial snare. Perhaps its just personal preference, but I don't really see a problem with using quick skills in sutra (but you better add in d.pyro.. its like made for sutra lol) :P

Sun_Burn - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

@AsimM - why are you recommending combos if you don't even use them yourself?

@Sun - It's even worse than casting expel on yourself, it basically tries to activate on them but fails so you use up your genie energy without it having any effect. It won't cast on yourself.

I used to have a similar idea to you that the best sutra combo was something like d.pyro -> ss -> glacial snare -> d.pyro, but I've actually found that using a 5 skill combo with "weaker" skills is actually just as good if not better. I almost always use genie spark in my sutra combo.. so its nearly always an undine -> sutra -> genie spark -> d.pyro -> pyro -> wotp -> d.pyro -> pyro (and depending on my target usually add in a fortify/FoW before the combo or something). I haven't really done the math, but I get the feeling a 5 skill damage with smaller skills (like d.pyro -> pyro -> gush -> d.pyro -> pyro) would do more damage than the earlier combo with ss/glacial snare. Perhaps its just personal preference, but I don't really see a problem with using quick skills in sutra (but you better add in d.pyro.. its like made for sutra lol) :P

I was talking about expel in like normal pvp cases where it doesnt cancel out when used on someone with the buff filter on, but yea that got annoying in TWs.

I think I remember trying to do a 5 skill combo when I just turned 59, and it didn't work, I didn't know it was even possible due to server lag. Maybe its just my connection but I can barely pull off a 4 skill combo with sutra half the time.

But anyways, I rarely use sutra. Probably because in open pvp Im usually dead before I have 2 sparks, and in tw I use the sparks for ultis lol.

edit: funny thing is, all the people posting combos using those short channel nukes with sutra are only posting 2-4 skills I dont see any yet with 5 xD

edit 2._.: Im sure critical hits would play a large factor when comparing a 5 weak skill sutra combo vs. a 4 strong nuke combo. 1st crit would probably tick and then 3 skills would easily kill afterwards. Depends who your fighting I guess and what their hp is at.

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

at least you mentioned that you wait for them to use their genie, although I'm not sure how you can force them to use their genie while you haven't used any of your chi or control skills or genie energy. Any good player saves their genie energy/high cooldown skills and whatnot until they really need them, so I don't see your first combo as realistic in pvp at all. The second one is kinda silly, I don't know who sits around after you triple spark.. you have no way to hold them in place so you just wasted all your chi, apoth, etc when all they have to do is drop out of range or holy path out etc etc. Just not practical.

It's very rare that I use up all my resources in one little fight, I usually start out with a sleep -> ulti to force a domain (and usually am able to cancel the ulti when domain pops up) and then not long after am able to finish them off with a sutra combo or the like. I do remember being very happy with myself with a kinda all or nothing combo I pulled out of my a$$ a while back. Had been kiting this bm for ages (not Calvin btw), and I couldn't bypass his charm without a crit (and he was spamming hp pots and mdef charms etc.. so it was getting to be a real pain) and I ended up killing him like 10 mins later with a undine -> sutra -> FoW -> MS -> genie spark -> d.pyro -> pyro -> no channel pot (zooming thunder I think its called) -> wotp -> fortify -> d.pyro -> pyro. Obviously that used up all of my chi (although after all those skills I had like a spark back), my genie energy, AND apoth cooldown (and I had used a sleep -> cancel BIDS to force domain just before this.. so all of my reliable control skills were also on cooldown). If that hadn't worked for some reason.. like if he used an immune apoth instead of trying to stun me.. I'm sure I'd have lost. I think it worked in that circumstance, but as a general rule of thumb.. using everything at the same time is USUALLY a very bad idea. When you do, you better be sure it's going to work lol (as in you know anything that would save them is on cooldown or something..)

edit: so I guess what I'm saying is your first combo is just very very very situational.. and even then its not really a guaranteed kill against a high hp target (5 skills with minor amps). I don't like your second at all.

edit2: lol @ using genie spark and then water/earth skills. Also lol'd at glacial "shards" as that is a psy skill..

First, I didn't post a combo with spark+water/earth >.<.

Second, I agree with everything you said, and I concede that my combo is certainly a highly situational one. I think what needs to be considered is that I'm on a carebear server XD, where it's rather easy to get someone to use up major defenses without much effort. So it's much less situational for me than it is for you XD!

Also, I just realized I only use second combo for pve >.<. Must have been late when I posted it.

But I really like that idea with sleep, ulti +cancel on ad. I am definitely going to try that.

To Sun's above post: I have successfully gotten sutra dp, pyro, wotp, dp, pyro out, but it only works sometimes, depending on my lag. That's why I only posted 4, not 5.

Adroit - Lost City

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary wrote: »

First, I didn't post a combo with spark+water/earth >.<.

Second, I agree with everything you said, and I concede that my combo is certainly a highly situational one. I think what needs to be considered is that I'm on a carebear server XD, where it's rather easy to get someone to use up major defenses without much effort. So it's much less situational for me than it is for you XD!

Also, I just realized I only use second combo for pve >.<. Must have been late when I posted it.

But I really like that idea with sleep, ulti +cancel on ad. I am definitely going to try that.

To Sun's above post: I have successfully gotten sutra dp, pyro, wotp, dp, pyro out, but it only works sometimes, depending on my lag. That's why I only posted 4, not 5.

Haha my second edit wasn't directed at you sryz :P

I have no trouble at all using 4 skills in a sutra combo, and I'm able to get off 5 skills (in the odd case they aren't already dead) probably 75% of the time. I love having very little lag

@sun - you're demon right?

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

Sun_Burn - Lost City wrote: »

1. Clearly you dont pvp much, everyone knows expel can't be casted on others because of everyone (who isn't an absolute moron) has their neutral buff protection on, resulting in Expel being casted on yourself.

2. why is everyone so obsessed with wasting 2 sparks with sutra and only using normal 100% amplifier low damage nukes (200% with stonerain, w/e)? Do you not realize how much more damage glacial snare/sandstorm does compared to stone rain/pyrogram/gush? When you have instant channeling USE IT WITH YOUR HIGH CHANNEL TIME HEAVY NUKES. And dont use undine 'after' Sutra.. your just wasting time during the few seconds of instant channel that you have.

1. Well i won several times in steadfast room in cube by casting expel on others and it worked all the time ..
2. sure using the heavy nukes with high weapon modifiers is nice but i guess it depends on the target if you prefer to have a sutra with only 2 hard hitters or with 3-4 spam skills in it. for instance because dmg of 1 hit gets absorbed by wing shell or so on.