Demon or Sage Veno???

/Gozer - Raging Tide4

hi
I'm close to 89 lev in PvE serwer and still dont know what path choose.
Both Sage and Demon has few skills what i want, so this is my dilemmas.
I like to grind + TT runs solo (sometimes TW as support in my guild), so what path will be bether??

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

There is no straight forward answer anyone can give you.
( and this topic has been discussed many, and i mean MANY times on the veno forums before. Tip: Search function )

It's all within personal preferance.
If i had listened to all the people around me i would have gone demon, but i am glad i did my own research.
4 main reasons i went for sage.
- Aoe Purge ( if i ever DO get into TW )
- Soul Degeneration gives lowered Max health instead of evasion. ( LOVE that on wb's and [?] mobs )
- Amplify damage gives 30% extra damage instead of a longer duration ( which i calculated, together with extreme poison (genie skill, 20%) = 50% more damage on average alone with my debuffs.
- Summer sprint gives me a self purify instead of an extra speedboost.

It's all about weighing the options. Make a list, what skills you like on demon and what on sage. and just see which way gets the most votes.

If that dont work, try looking at your gaming, what would benefit you most from what tree ?

Good luck !b:victory

Meyki - Sanctuary

Naruto = Sage

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

For me also, Soul Degen and Amplify Damage meant Sage.

But the veno demon/sage choice is very well balanced. Demons, as a general rule, get better stuff but with only a %age chance. Sages get more consistent stuff.

Astraea - Raging Tide

personally, i didnt rly do any good research into skills and went demon mainly for the speed boost from foxform ._.
for PvE i see sage as being bit more helpful with more consistent debuffs, while on demon i have to hope for my debuffs to hit (one useful for venos+barbs using poison fang being the +30% wood debuff from demon venomous)
sage on other hand has all the things anima listed (btw summer sprint gives self purify + higher speed boost, i think mby u confused it with demon fox?, demon sprint just gives a small time immunity to stun/sleep)

looking at spark alone actually, sage spark gives +900% mag att and 500% p att, demon gives +700 phys att and 650 mag att

skill wise, as it was said, demon has greater effects but low % of actually working (such as ironwood dropping p def to 0 but only with 20% chance of working) altho ironwood is easily replaced with ur myriads for the +100% phys/mag debuffs pretty much same chance of success as demon ironwood, sage ironwood is a constant 40% p def debuff and lasts for 20s instead of 10s

if i stop being lazy and actually gather some sage skills i will most definitely change culties (alrdy finish all of 100 culti and have 3rd genie so only missing schism mold and to grab a few skills b4 changing)

Raequel - Dreamweaver

My playstyle on my veno is usually pretty independent so I wanted skills that would speed up my solo killing of bosses so I chose sage.

Soul Degen = 20% max hp knocked off.
Amp damage = 30% additional
Ironwood = Always gets a nice 40% debuff ^_^
Venomous = chiiiii
Sage Spark = totally Op'd when my hubby's BM throws a HF for me

b:dirty

and TW wise:
Purge = AoE

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

Astraea - Raging Tide wrote: »

sage on other hand has all the things anima listed (btw summer sprint gives self purify + higher speed boost, i think mby u confused it with demon fox?, demon sprint just gives a small time immunity to stun/sleep)

Doh, very right you are dunno why i confused those 2 x.x thnxs for the correction
I'd only woken up maybe half an hour before writing that b:chuckle prolly why *coughs* yeah...

dekujus

the path of gtfo forums with these stupid topics

Meyki - Sanctuary

dekujus wrote: »

the path of gtfo forums with these stupid topics

Get lost.

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary

Decide between these:

Sage: Power.
Demon: Speed.

AlphaMale - Raging Tide

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary wrote: »

Decide between these:

Sage: Power.
Demon: Speed.

In a nutshell.

ReiMei - Lost City

hows that most the population of venos decieded to turn sage all of sudden... hey we might not have 900%matk on 3spark but that doesnt mean we suck... i mean... sage sins dont get aps spark and they still own dont they? xD.

Well anyways just to give an opinion from the currently underlooked demon side of the venomnishness... regarding amp... i think demon is still better than sage even when sage is 30%, accoriding to ecatomb and to my own skill its a 25% amp for 26 seconds so its just a 5% dmg loss compared to sage, with a 6 seconds increase on the debuff + the 30% wood def debuff from venomous which will always take effect( unless your skill misses which its not possible so far as i know) that makes up to 55% increased dmg on the target and if you stack extreme poison its 75% increased dmg, i did a sort of test on a barb friend of mine, i used a regular ironwood without any kind of buff/debuff and did around 3k, then i amp+venom wood debuff+howl from my bee then ironwood for about 5kish, that should make more than enough to cover the missing 5% dmg from sage amp.

I dont have an argument against sage soul degen, in fact i think thats the best sage veno skill and about purge well yeah its awesome in tw but for my server at least once a certain guild takes all lands again aoe purge will have no point at all.

Both summer sprints are a /gasm sage self puri and demon gives you the stun immune+feral regeneration combo so pretty even i think. Ironwood is like the skill that people will not choose demon for since we lose our safe def reduction skill for a chance to **** the target, as for me idk if its just luck or if pwe mechanics are broken but i get 0 def debuff hit 7/10 times and having my bee tick a barb for 3k is fun lol and also is a good help for the barb to keep aggro( as well for sins and/or archers to take it) on lvl 150 bosses battle, the increase of dmg isnt a lot but it still helps.

Generally i think most other demon skills are better, bramble having 15 mins+ 75% reflect and freeze effect added to frsot scarab to make it actually worth the spark it takes, i like crust vigor too, thats the easy way for us demons to make chi "fast". the betterchoice betwen Meta boost and nature's grace depends on the situation... sage is better when you just need to recover health while your charm is in cd and demon are better for better grind and a faster mp regain during solo hhs to keep for wasting too many pots.

And finally there is what i call the best asset demons have over sages... demon parasitic nova.. while sages get the usual 50% chance for casting with 1 spark.. which isnt bad at all but i dont spark too much xD, demon gets you a 30% amp on every target struck by chaotic so upon casting demon nova you have a 67% chance to make enemies unable to move, attack AND you also AOE AMP THEM damn thats like the best aoe in the game(after heaven's flame) for gv and tw IMO. Also on a little side note, demon spark isnt THAT bad.. i mean if the veno uses fox form dd skills for any porpouse (i.e: killing robe classes, dd magic immune stuff, etc..) its pretty useful, i tend to solo hhs 2-x with a friend and we solo feng in fox form using leech to regenerate the lost hp. 3spark to remove the debuff(idk it removes it from me at least) and dd, and i find i do quite a decent dmg on fox with demon spark + demon melee mastery.


Well sorry for the wall of text, was just letting out some opinions, i tried my best to no sound like an smartass. hope you enjoy reading... or not! ^^b:surrender

xxxdsmer

i went demon on my veno, and it really stinks how infrequently ironwood works, i'd much rather have a 40% debuff that always works (and for 20s to boot), than a 0pdef debuff that rarely works.

sage leech with 100% chance to heal 600? hp would also be nice... it seems when i need that bit of HP to save my butt, my lv10 leech never does proc.

sage soul degen with the -20% HP debuff... i'd always use that really early in a boss fight to knock 20% of its HP right off the top. what skill other than a sage archer's sharpened tooth arrow can do 20% of a boss's HP in one cast? lol

so overall having experienced the demon side of it (and i've got venomous, ironwood, foxform, and a few others demon version) i think i'd been happier going sage and not having to count on the % chance of demon skills procuring... but i tend to like things that are reliable anyways. (like being able to pdef debuff a boss in HH for the whole fight and the pet does more damage the whole time rather than doing spectacular damage only rarely)