Sins are special for what reason?

Hhalb - Sanctuary

Being overpowered isn't the issue here but rather the fact they are given special treatment and I would like to know why? I can see them having a stun and a freeze skills like archers do among some of the other special effects from their attacks. Why were they given most of the movement hindering and interfering effects in the game? Sleep, Stun, Freeze, Silence.... that's more then any other class has for stun skills.

Another thing is they have a free Cloud Eruption skill which is not as balanced as Archer Awaken which has a 15 minute cool down time to essentially gain 399 chi while sins can gain 200 chi for free with a 1 minute CD time which added onto apoth items and Cloud Eruption find to be a very unbalanced trait to have.

Finally, every other skill when they gain demon mastery skill, Water/Earth/Fire/Wood/Metal, Bows/AH/Fist/PoleArms/Sword they only gain 1% crit when using that weapon. Why are sins the ONLY class to gain 2% when they attack?

Also, they were given -interval on their armor which I find to be unfair only because they use a fast weapon. Before hand archers were the ONLY class to have -interval on rank gear and especially, chest armor but this is legit as we start at .67 (which is the only legit archer weapon in my op) so even maxing our interval we will never exceed 1.05 with our weapon and yet sins are able to compete with interval gear allowing them to max their interval.

And there is more, Sins having been given all this awesome power were given a buff to regain HP when dealing damage and the exploited high interval rates.

I don't give a FF if they keep the top spot as DD'er, being close ranged is a disadvantage and being higher DD then archers and wizards is 100% fair and acceptable. But the fact they are given about as many special abilities and privileges as my mod characters made in Morrowind (and I mean DECKED out) well, something is wrong here.

Seriously, when a LA class can solo FCC and power level to 105 and be quoted as playing "without buying a single dollar's worth of ZEN!" that's absolute horse ****.

Damnit, change the cool down for Awaken, give barbs and wizards more debuffs and/or stun skills. Cap interval at 3.33 which will still allow for perma sparks but lower the obscene damage done with 5.0 aps. Who care about archers and barbs being able to use fists, a BM could use Arcane if he wanted. There are no real glitches or bugs with this game, change the things that REALLY matter. I watched you guys change sin CHI gain when they first came out so its not impossible.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

You don't need a balanced game for it to be financially successful. With sins there is a big pressure for older classes to reroll and charge more zhen.

CandyCorn - Raging Tide

yeah..another ooone of these posts

Dimitrik - Dreamweaver

Sigh.

Yeah. Another one of these threads.

Just tossing this out there - sins can't take a hit. Their staying power is abysmal. Without those skills, they'd be seriously hardpressed. Blademasters (unless you effed up) have staying power. Barbarians do, too. Archers fight at a range. Venos are parties in and of themselves. Mage-types deal massive spike damage.

That said, I'm out.

Tigriss - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

You don't need a balanced game for it to be financially successful. With sins there is a big pressure for older classes to reroll and charge more zhen.

I SHALL NEVER REROLL!!! VENO FOR LIFE FTWb:victoryb:chuckle

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

sins are special?

Niteshadows - Harshlands

funny how many nubs turn a blind eye at this issue. all i've got to say is nerf aps, stealth and chi for sin. aps will also effect the other classes too. btw, u can see a 5 aps bm coming for ur a$$. not a sin who does so much more dmg per hit.

*it's not called trolling it's called the truth. b:shutup

Ajani - Harshlands

GTFO 3k hp bm at 90.

Leptiction - Harshlands

Niteshadows - Harshlands wrote: »

funny how many nubs turn a blind eye at this issue. all i've got to say is nerf aps, stealth and chi for sin. aps will also effect the other classes too. btw, u can see a 5 aps bm coming for ur a$$. not a sin who does so much more dmg per hit.

*it's not called trolling it's called the truth. b:shutup

Even tho this person has good points lol, dont listen to him, hes a nab in fc, nite, i will never fc with you again, cant even dg right, o god lol b:kissb:angryb:shutup

_Nuriko_ - Lost City

Hhalb - Sanctuary wrote: »

There are no real glitches or bugs with this game, change the things that REALLY matter.

i just wanna say rofl... lmao.... hahahhaha... lol.... haahahahaha... heheheh...hohohoh.hahahahaha >_> any form of laughter i didnt miss? WHAT GAME ARE YOU PLAYING IF U DONT NOTICE THE GOD **** BUGS ON A DAILY F***ING BASIS?

Also want to throw in... us sins are gods, bow to us...

Leptiction - Harshlands

Ajani - Harshlands wrote: »

GTFO 3k hp bm at 90.

haha see! its not only me! ajani thinks this boy is phail to xD buy ajani ur bm is a beast lol

Ajani - Harshlands

He is lvl 2. Don't hate the newbs lawl

_Nuriko_ - Lost City

Ajani - Harshlands wrote: »

He is lvl 2. Don't hate the newbs lawl

Do you reallllly think he's level 2? More likely just another alt to afraid to post on his mainb:chuckle

ZoanoAce - Lost City

Leptiction - Harshlands wrote: »

Even tho this person has good points lol, dont listen to him, hes a nab in fc, nite, i will never fc with you again, cant even dg right, o god lol b:kissb:angryb:shutup

Wow, epic server love b:bored

Ois - Lost City

Too many words.

Sins arent special...they are just another class that can take advantage of stunlocking/5 aps. Get over it dude.

Azzazin - Dreamweaver

Mmm, defense wise most classes have sins beat.

1)Archers; roughly as squishy as sins, better evasion; a skill that makes immune to dmg briefly. As mentioned, they don't have to get up close; they can stay as far as 30m away.
2)Clerics; plume shell, 79 skill shells, heals.

3)Barbarians; very high hp, high def, invoke the spirit.
4)Venomancer; fox form gives more def; pet can take damage in place of veno; 79 skill makes immune to dmg briefly.

5)Wizards; incredible phy defense endgame with earth barrier.
6)Blademasters; very high phy def, good hp.

7)Psychics; white voodoo, soul of silence (hit an endgame psychic too much, you get sealed; this makes psychics very very durable).
8)and Assassins; focused mind & deaden nerves. I'll say deaden nerves is definitely very cool; focused mind is kinda like, are you feeling lucky? If you lucky, yay, if not, ouch, that hurts.

Without bloodpaint, assassins would be useeeeeless. So don't even go hatin on that buff, its the only thing that makes assassins playable in pve. If you wanna compare to archer, imagine suddenly your archer can't stun that mob/person from 30meters away. You gotta get right up to that person to hit, and then then if we imagine that we don't have any more status effects, oh, mob/person ran away, can't hit it anymore. You ever tried to hit a moving target as an assassin? Unless you speed buff in front of mob/person and manage to hit with 4.5meter range immobilize, its nigh impossible. Archer never has this kinda problem, you can stop anybody in their tracks no matter how far they get, pretty much.

And seriously, its an assassin: what the bloody hell would be the point of an assassin that isn't good at pk? Assassin: 'person that selects a target & kills it quickly, efficiently, and silently, then retreats unseen'. It is already widely acknowledged that assassins aren't so hot in TW, so they aren't good at *everything*. I'd love to see an assassin tank more than 3 ppl at once in any situation. A well geared psychic can hold off entire groups of ppl, as can barbarians, and well built clerics... and well built venos... and bms... wizards with good phy & elemental def, who can port away from you and hit like trucks... archers who never have to get close to the action... I rest my case.

Azzazin

Ajani - Harshlands

Azzazin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1)Archers; roughly as squishy as sins, better evasion; a skill that makes immune to dmg briefly. As mentioned, they don't have to get up close; they can stay as far as 30m away.

Evasion is by far worst buff and stat ever. Everything hits you! I mean everything!!!! Even barbs with vit build and no x% acc rings hit you face has pure dex!! The 79 skill that gives 1000% sucks cause it's not really instant (cast is but effect takes couple secs to pop).
So ye.. evasion sucks lolb:cry


Bloodpaint<333333b:dirty

Tearle - Dreamweaver

Sins are special because they're fish outta water b:cute

Ajani - Harshlands

Tearle - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sins are special because they're fish outta water b:cute

And have wings.

Futurelord - Dreamweaver

Azzazin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Mmm, defense wise most classes have sins beat.

1)Archers; roughly as squishy as sins, better evasion; a skill that makes immune to dmg briefly. As mentioned, they don't have to get up close; they can stay as far as 30m away.
2)Clerics; plume shell, 79 skill shells, heals.

3)Barbarians; very high hp, high def, invoke the spirit.
4)Venomancer; fox form gives more def; pet can take damage in place of veno; 79 skill makes immune to dmg briefly.

5)Wizards; incredible phy defense endgame with earth barrier.
6)Blademasters; very high phy def, good hp.

7)Psychics; white voodoo, soul of silence (hit an endgame psychic too much, you get sealed; this makes psychics very very durable).
8)and Assassins; focused mind & deaden nerves. I'll say deaden nerves is definitely very cool; focused mind is kinda like, are you feeling lucky? If you lucky, yay, if not, ouch, that hurts.

Without bloodpaint, assassins would be useeeeeless. So don't even go hatin on that buff, its the only thing that makes assassins playable in pve. If you wanna compare to archer, imagine suddenly your archer can't stun that mob/person from 30meters away. You gotta get right up to that person to hit, and then then if we imagine that we don't have any more status effects, oh, mob/person ran away, can't hit it anymore. You ever tried to hit a moving target as an assassin? Unless you speed buff in front of mob/person and manage to hit with 4.5meter range immobilize, its nigh impossible. Archer never has this kinda problem, you can stop anybody in their tracks no matter how far they get, pretty much.

And seriously, its an assassin: what the bloody hell would be the point of an assassin that isn't good at pk? Assassin: 'person that selects a target & kills it quickly, efficiently, and silently, then retreats unseen'. It is already widely acknowledged that assassins aren't so hot in TW, so they aren't good at *everything*. I'd love to see an assassin tank more than 3 ppl at once in any situation. A well geared psychic can hold off entire groups of ppl, as can barbarians, and well built clerics... and well built venos... and bms... wizards with good phy & elemental def, who can port away from you and hit like trucks... archers who never have to get close to the action... I rest my case.

Azzazin

1) What sin allows them to get that far away from them?
2) instant mana drain being attacked that fast, cant cut it, they can out DD heal speed.
3) I've seen a sin 5 aps his way though a invoked barb and kill him.
4) no nix can save a dead veno
5) Not enough
6) Feeling lucky? go for a stun, if not your dead.
7) that seal dont last long enough to counter the stun sins will most likely use on the first, 4th, 6th hit.
8) sins vs sin, no comment.

This thread is about sins, so i speak of the advantages sins have, rarely do the advantage of range come into play when a sin attacks a mage. It isnt defense that matters but the fact that it wont matter if you cant hit them in the first place.

ArchSaber - Sanctuary

Even with Awaken at 1 or 2 minute cooldown, Sins would still be twice as useful then an Archer.

I don't even get why you think being close range is a disadvantage. It's not that bad at all.

You do know that they made Sins to be a "Melee Archer", so of course they would have rank top to balance the lost interval compared to fists.

Rather then awaken cooldown, Bows should be able to get to their own aps cap of 2.5. Awaken just gives chi, chi or not they still kinda suck.

Oh yeah, so the mystic class is a wannabe venomancer, and the seeker is a tank class who uses skills and has no aps.. SINS will always be the dominant damager by being the only class ever to be able to hit 200k+ DPS



This is like the first thread in like a year where an Archer complains about Sins.
*I'm talking about my thread from my old archer*

anwynd

Only things i want changed on a sin is to take away deaden nerves i mean really if anything screams op its this skill you can get hit for 1 million damage and still survive and kill the person who attacked you thanks to that dam skill.b:infuriated I also think making their tele stun distance shorter becus if your a range class tht should be an advantage and a sin having a skill that exceeds even the ranged classes range is bs. Plus i think the stealth skills should be adjusted the only thing i think should be adjusted for the stealth skill you cant use in combat is if you get in like lets say 5-10m of a person they should be able to see you at the very least no matter the detection lvl. For the stealth skill that works in combat i think it should cost a spark not give one becus wth rlly you run away and you get rewarded for it *facedesk*.b:scorn Plus it should be a timed skill so lets say you can only stay in forced stealth for like 60 seconds tht seems like enough time to run away which is what the dam thing is suppose to be used for.b:irritated My other idea to add on to the last ones is that the cooldown shouldnt start tell the 60 seconds in forced stealth actually ends dont know if its possible to do that but i think thats completely fair so it cant be abused like it has been.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Arch, I've seen sins hit much more than that per sec. :P

And to OP: Every class has a purpose. Sins just have a lot of them.

graef

Ok, op. I'm going to help you greatly here so listen closely.
Get any class to lvl 100, get r8 or r9. Refine your weapon a bit. Get AD on your genie. Use it when a sin pops from stealth and stuns you, then one - two shot him. GG

Besides sins may be great at some stuff but they suck at alot too. E.G. TW. My 5 aps sin with +10 gear is still fail at tw and group pvp in general. They're great at 1v1 pvp, but once they kill one or two targets they're just standing there unstealthed with no cooldowns on any decent skills and no options left but auto-attacking on someone while they kite or stun you. Sins have so many status affecting moves because without pinning someone in place they are literally useless. And the skills can only be used once then all have long cooldowns. You can't fight and keep on fighting like other classes for a long time. You can just come out of stealth, drop a few people really fast, and then you're useless untill you're moves have all coold down again. Sins work in stops and starts. If you don't kill someone fast you aren't going to kill them you're just going to die.

Sins aren't op at pvp at all tbh. Learn how to play, learn how to kill a sin, and it's easy.
They are pretty op at pve though. But who even cares about pve?

Futurelord - Dreamweaver

graef wrote: »

Ok, op. I'm going to help you greatly here so listen closely.
Get any class to lvl 100, get r8 or r9. Refine your weapon a bit. Get AD on your genie. Use it when a sin pops from stealth and stuns you, then one - two shot him. GG

Besides sins may be great at some stuff but they suck at alot too. E.G. TW. My 5 aps sin with +10 gear is still fail at tw and group pvp in general. They're great at 1v1 pvp, but once they kill one or two targets they're just standing there unstealthed with no cooldowns on any decent skills and no options left but auto-attacking on someone while they kite or stun you. Sins have so many status affecting moves because without pinning someone in place they are literally useless. And the skills can only be used once then all have long cooldowns. You can't fight and keep on fighting like other classes for a long time. You can just come out of stealth, drop a few people really fast, and then you're useless untill you're moves have all coold down again. Sins work in stops and starts. If you don't kill someone fast you aren't going to kill them you're just going to die.

Sins aren't op at pvp at all tbh. Learn how to play, learn how to kill a sin, and it's easy.
They are pretty op at pve though. But who even cares about pve?

Why was your first suggestion to get some very expensive gear? With the person taking 3-5 damage per second i hardly see how they could live long enough to get out the first attack. Besides, some (most) sins at that level are wearing r8 r9 as well so living past the first hit is hard in and of itself.

ArchSaber - Sanctuary

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Arch, I've seen sins hit much more than that per sec. :P

And to OP: Every class has a purpose. Sins just have a lot of them.

That's why I said 200k+. They can hit more with 4.0 + Rank 9 daggers. But the damage of that cannot be determined because GoF is by chance.

Azzazin - Dreamweaver

graef wrote: »

Ok, op. I'm going to help you greatly here so listen closely.
Get any class to lvl 100, get r8 or r9. Refine your weapon a bit. Get AD on your genie. Use it when a sin pops from stealth and stuns you, then one - two shot him. GG

Besides sins may be great at some stuff but they suck at alot too. E.G. TW. My 5 aps sin with +10 gear is still fail at tw and group pvp in general. They're great at 1v1 pvp, but once they kill one or two targets they're just standing there unstealthed with no cooldowns on any decent skills and no options left but auto-attacking on someone while they kite or stun you. Sins have so many status affecting moves because without pinning someone in place they are literally useless. And the skills can only be used once then all have long cooldowns. You can't fight and keep on fighting like other classes for a long time. You can just come out of stealth, drop a few people really fast, and then you're useless untill you're moves have all coold down again. Sins work in stops and starts. If you don't kill someone fast you aren't going to kill them you're just going to die.

Sins aren't op at pvp at all tbh. Learn how to play, learn how to kill a sin, and it's easy.
They are pretty op at pve though. But who even cares about pve?

This pretty much sums it up. Kill fast or die fast is the assassin's motto here. Yes in 1 on 1 pk, an assassin will always have the upper hand due to stealth, but in TW that advantage gets flushed down the toilet, cuz after you hit somebody... maybe you killed one person, maybe 2, before they could expel or what not. Then yur pretty much a sitting duck, and THIS is where defenses become important, Futurelord. Assassins can avoid dmg or avoid status effects with short term buffs (and there are always nice big 30 second gaps where no buffs are on), but if you get hit, its gonna hurt. See, in TW, if two ppl gang up on archer, for instance, two other archers, the archer under attack can pop an ironguard, say, and tab from one person to the other without having to move a step. An assassin under fire would have to port, hope that you don't lag at the other end, lock the person down, dps, and hope that shadow tele isn't in cooldown (once every 3 minutes, remember), to get to the other person, then lock them down, then dps, etc. Much less efficient, and more vulnerable by far, needing to get close and hold the person down to do any dmg. Which, once again, explains why we gotta have status effects to lock ppl down.

I've done some pkin on my alt cleric, and really, you just hafta know how a sin thinks... they can be beat. Learn to get familiar with yur apoths and you can turn the tables on a sin attack. As I'm sure yur aware, interval gear isn't exactly the best def-wise by far; you give up a lot of potential hp & defenses to have it, so if yur caught in the open, once again, squishy squishy. I mean, sure, I can kill most ppl in 1 on 1 pk battles, but lets face it, to any +10 wiz, psychic, veno, etc, I'm just as much of a one shot if I get caught off guard. Life's like that for a 'sin.

ArchSaber - Sanctuary

This pretty much sums it up. Kill fast or die fast is the assassin's motto here. Yes in 1 on 1 pk, an assassin will always have the upper hand due to stealth, but in TW that advantage gets flushed down the toilet, cuz after you hit somebody... maybe you killed one person, maybe 2, before they could expel or what not. Then yur pretty much a sitting duck, and THIS is where defenses become important, Futurelord. Assassins can avoid dmg or avoid status effects with short term buffs (and there are always nice big 30 second gaps where no buffs are on), but if you get hit, its gonna hurt. See, in TW, if two ppl gang up on archer, for instance, two other archers, the archer under attack can pop an ironguard, say, and tab from one person to the other without having to move a step. An assassin under fire would have to port, hope that you don't lag at the other end, lock the person down, dps, and hope that shadow tele isn't in cooldown (once every 3 minutes, remember), to get to the other person, then lock them down, then dps, etc. Much less efficient, and more vulnerable by far, needing to get close and hold the person down to do any dmg. Which, once again, explains why we gotta have status effects to lock ppl down.

I've done some pkin on my alt cleric, and really, you just hafta know how a sin thinks... they can be beat. Learn to get familiar with yur apoths and you can turn the tables on a sin attack. As I'm sure yur aware, interval gear isn't exactly the best def-wise by far; you give up a lot of potential hp & defenses to have it, so if yur caught in the open, once again, squishy squishy. I mean, sure, I can kill most ppl in 1 on 1 pk battles, but lets face it, to any +10 wiz, psychic, veno, etc, I'm just as much of a one shot if I get caught off guard. Life's like that for a 'sin.

^You forgot to say Azzazzin at the end.

Abstractive - Archosaur

*hums childish tune*
Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah, 'sins are OP, and YOU are NOT, nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah.

Ok, seriously now...there are dozens of other threads concerning this topic. This has gone too far, your aggression towards this amazing class has to stop now. Either roll a 'sin and join the brotherhood or forever rest your case.

I am not even going to salute you, sir. Goodbye !

Longknife - Harshlands

Futurelord - Dreamweaver wrote: »

7) that seal dont last long enough to counter the stun sins will most likely use on the first, 4th, 6th hit.

No, that thing is damn OP. A sage Psy will silence for 5 seconds, a smart Psy won't allow a sin to open with that stun, and a decked out Psy has 30% chance of that 5 second silence on every hit they take.


But sins aren't OP. They're just a-holes.
Any other class, if you kill them over and over, they back off. Sins however will just stalk you for AAAAAAGES, waiting for the moment where you're AFK or busy fighting someone else or chatting it up in general chat or whatever, THEN they jump you. Any class can do this; personally I run into quite a lot of archers who respond to dying all the time by staying in the air, shooting down at me from the air the moment someone else fights me. It's just that sins have the most tools to exploit d1ck moves like this and I would be willing to argue that sin is a class style that tends to attract egotistical players who can't just back off and accept a loss.

They should make an item called "Restraining order" and allow it to be used to keep a sin from attacking a person after the sin has fought that person a certain amount; they'd make millions.

Hhalb - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

You don't need a balanced game for it to be financially successful. With sins there is a big pressure for older classes to reroll and charge more zhen.

Honestly, I don't believe they are as money hungry as people say. The game needs money to run and they could have easily made it pay to play and keep the cash shops like many other games.

CandyCorn - Raging Tide wrote: »

yeah..another ooone of these posts

Similar in many ways yes, but find another post that brings up these specific topics, one of my favorites is again, they get 2% crit with demon mastery, why is this? But you don't have an answer for that or anything I asked, do you?

Dimitrik - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sigh.

Yeah. Another one of these threads.

Just tossing this out there - sins can't take a hit. Their staying power is abysmal. Without those skills, they'd be seriously hardpressed. Blademasters (unless you effed up) have staying power. Barbarians do, too. Archers fight at a range. Venos are parties in and of themselves. Mage-types deal massive spike damage.

That said, I'm out.

Once again, let me bring up solo'ing FCC with light armor or being able to steal aggro and get back out of it in an instant which means they all lose the concept of the skill "controlling ones aggro" which back in the day, was an important job in a squad for us DD'ers. Thank you for not being like the person above you.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

sins are special?

Yes, there was more to the post then the title, care to take time to read?

_Nuriko_ - Lost City wrote: »

i just wanna say rofl... lmao.... hahahhaha... lol.... haahahahaha... heheheh...hohohoh.hahahahaha >_> any form of laughter i didnt miss? WHAT GAME ARE YOU PLAYING IF U DONT NOTICE THE GOD **** BUGS ON A DAILY F***ING BASIS?

Also want to throw in... us sins are gods, bow to us...

Yeah? Where are the real bugs? I agree that many text based issues are still around, but name a real "glitch" or "bug" in the system? You obviously sound like you have a listen of them but you failed to do so. Rubberbanding is not a glitch but something implemented into the game or so I have heard/read, correct me if I am wrong.