Bow or Cross bow?

2»

Comments

  • Posts: 1,206 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Sling shot have inferior DPS in general compared to bow and crossbow. Where xbow have 0.62 APS, bow have 0.67 APS and 0.71 APS with slingshot. Is that even noticable APS?

    You apparently are not familiar with the Wind and the Clouds slingshot.

    Even that sling excluded, slingshots are comparable if not better than many bows and xbows. It comes down more to refines and other gears. Many archers I know made the G15 Nirvana slingshot for endgame and are doing a damn fine job killing people with it.

    This is why you shouldn't attempt to make points about topics you know nothing about.b:cute
    On indefinite hiatus :3
  • Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    You apparently are not familiar with the Wind and the Clouds slingshot.

    Even that sling excluded, slingshots are comparable if not better than many bows and xbows. It comes down more to refines and other gears. Many archers I know made the G15 Nirvana slingshot for endgame and are doing a damn fine job killing people with it.

    This is why you shouldn't attempt to make points about topics you know nothing about
    .b:cute

    Nice advice , but ......... it was a Yulk Post , so yeah , it was bound to be dump
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    <--- MALE Veno ..... Moved to G W 2 or maybe not completely , don't know ...... PW addiction
    {That TT xbow chain is one that describes someone's bowel movements after having too much spicy food. A loud **** (Thundercrack), then a burning sensation (Flash Fire), followed by an explosion of multi-colored poo-confetti (Blinding Radiance). Excellent...} By Quilue
  • Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Use All Weapons Untill They Dont Provide The Hitting Power For Your Lvl Anymore.
  • Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    You apparently are not familiar with the Wind and the Clouds slingshot.

    Either that, or he is using an odd set of assumptions which he is not expressing (and I think using hidden assumptions could be a trolling technique).

    For example: crossbows have the best dps with barrage, assuming you are comparing weapons of the same grade and quality. (But barrage is only a dps skill when you have a good crowd of targets.)
  • Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    You apparently are not familiar with the Wind and the Clouds slingshot.

    Even that sling excluded, slingshots are comparable if not better than many bows and xbows. It comes down more to refines and other gears. Many archers I know made the G15 Nirvana slingshot for endgame and are doing a damn fine job killing people with it.

    This is why you shouldn't attempt to make points about topics you know nothing about.b:cute

    LOL wind and clouds. Well other than -int it have some nice additions, Yet again, there is solarslayer for 6x which is actually better, no need to use frost arrow b:chuckle... It have slightly higher p.atk and its only 0.15 more APS than solarslayer, very better... LOL. While solarslayer have HP adds, and OFC a chance to make the enemy slowed.

    I guess you are not familiar with Chained jail either, which is OP (I have it). Sadly I steal aggro too much with it b:surrender. Would you use a striker instead of chained jail? LOL!!

    Anyway, I rather have G15 xbow which have thundershocker which is an absolutely pro mod...

    I rather have noticeable change of p.atk than a slight change of APS that is barely noticeable. And sling shots kill people? Funny, I only take -50 DMG from sling shots on my melee chars.
    I, II and III spark is the most cheesiest skill in PWI and it should be removed or massively nerfed.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Posts: 3,275 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    yulk, you should make a youtube video of yourself killing some mobs on your archer. because, you know, that video of you doing that on your veno, that was something i'll never forget. b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.
  • Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    yulk, you should make a youtube video of yourself killing some mobs on your archer. because, you know, that video of you doing that on your veno, that was something i'll never forget. b:chuckle

    I actually killed faster without pet sometimes, but I lag worse doing VIDS >.> . As for archer... I need to kite... like casters or assassins, I try that and I won't be able to kite meaning dead squishy D:, I don't have lag problems on barb or bm or veno.
    I, II and III spark is the most cheesiest skill in PWI and it should be removed or massively nerfed.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Posts: 279 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I actually killed faster without pet sometimes, but I lag worse doing VIDS >.> . As for archer... I need to kite... like casters or assassins, I try that and I won't be able to kite meaning dead squishy D:, I don't have lag problems on barb or bm or veno.

    Assassins kite? Hmm, something is off about that...Assassin...melee...kite....
  • Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Assassins kite? Hmm, something is off about that...Assassin...melee...kite....

    They squishy, I rather kite as assassins... But BMs are better kiters, however they don't need to kite because BMs are not squishy. Bah, my veno takes 1/3 as much damage as my sin honestly. It is annoying to kite >.>.

    Puncture wound > Deep sting > run back and knife throw. Easy to do :D
    I, II and III spark is the most cheesiest skill in PWI and it should be removed or massively nerfed.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    LOL wind and clouds. Well other than -int it have some nice additions, Yet again, there is solarslayer for 6x which is actually better, no need to use frost arrow b:chuckle... It have slightly higher p.atk and its only 0.15 more APS than solarslayer, very better... LOL. While solarslayer have HP adds, and OFC a chance to make the enemy slowed.

    I guess you are not familiar with Chained jail either, which is OP (I have it). Sadly I steal aggro too much with it b:surrender. Would you use a striker instead of chained jail? LOL!!

    Anyway, I rather have G15 xbow which have thundershocker which is an absolutely pro mod...

    I rather have noticeable change of p.atk than a slight change of APS that is barely noticeable. And sling shots kill people? Funny, I only take -50 DMG from sling shots on my melee chars.

    For starters, Slow on Solarslayer is useless.
    145 HP... is 145 HP really that big of a deal? We're talking damage, not survivability.

    Anyway, here's an example

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0e7ca989da1c3391
    Slingshot
    P Attack: 3537 - 5032
    Crit Rate: 20%
    Attack Rate: 0.91/sec

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=8e5bad8dc472476b
    Crossbow
    P Attack: 3167 - 5354
    Crit Rate: 20%
    Attack Rate: 0.71/sec

    You really don't see the difference in APS? It's .2, brah... BIG difference..
    Well, I'm sure you're too simple-minded to do the math, so here, I'll do it for you:
    It's a DPS scenario since you claim that crossbows have higher DPS than slingshots and apparently steal aggro from everybody with your chained jail. I'll stick to these two weapons you brought up, though, because they're both available in the 60s and both have the same grade level (:

    Average Damage + Crit Rate + Attack Rate
    In order to have easier numbers to deal with, I'll take this out over a 100 second span of constant attacking, such as DPS'ing on a boss.

    Slingshot

    3537 + 5032 = 8569
    8569 / 2 = 4282 average damage per hit

    100 seconds = 91 hits
    91 x 4282 = 389,662 damage in the course of 100 seconds, not including crit rate

    Crits: 20%
    91 x .2 = 18.2
    18.2 x 4282 = 77,934

    Total damage over 100 seconds with crits:
    389,662 + 77,934 = 467,596

    Crossbow

    3167 + 5354 = 8521
    8521 / 2 = 4260 average damage per hit (ouch. already lower than sling average)

    100 seconds = 71 hits
    71 x 4260 = 302,460 damage in the course of 100 seconds, not including crit rate

    Crits: 20%
    71 x .2 = 14.2
    14.2 x 4260 = 60,492

    Total damage over 100 seconds with crits:
    302,460 + 60,492 = 362,952

    Sling 467,595 >>>> XBow 362,952
    Not to mention, the faster you attack, the more chi you get, the more times you can spark, the higher the damage output will be (:

    Now, moving on to your "end game" weapon.
    First of all, a slingshot can get Thundershocker as well.
    Now, the fact that you think Thundershocker is so pro makes me doubt you've even reached end game as an archer..
    Serious question... do you even PvP on archer?
    An archer isn't the type of character that should sit there attacking their opponents while they're mobile. Usually my opponents are stunned as I attack, and the fact that another stun, right after your initial one will cancel both stuns all together, can backfire on you.

    This game's PvP USED to be based on spike damage.
    That's why melee classes went for pure axes back then.
    That's why archers went for crossbows back then.

    Now, with so much interval gear available, though, you don't necessarily need that spike damage. I've killed heavy armors with nothing but pure DPS normal shots before. In fact, sometimes it's a lot easier to do that than to hope for high crit magical attacks. And trust me, getting through a well geared wiz and their stone barrier takes a lot more than a few good hits.
  • Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    For starters, Slow on Solarslayer is useless.
    145 HP... is 145 HP really that big of a deal? We're talking damage, not survivability.

    Anyway, here's an example

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0e7ca989da1c3391
    Slingshot
    P Attack: 3537 - 5032
    Crit Rate: 20%
    Attack Rate: 0.91/sec

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=8e5bad8dc472476b
    Crossbow
    P Attack: 3167 - 5354
    Crit Rate: 20%
    Attack Rate: 0.71/sec

    You really don't see the difference in APS? It's .2, brah... BIG difference..
    Well, I'm sure you're too simple-minded to do the math, so here, I'll do it for you:
    It's a DPS scenario since you claim that crossbows have higher DPS than slingshots and apparently steal aggro from everybody with your chained jail. I'll stick to these two weapons you brought up, though, because they're both available in the 60s and both have the same grade level (:

    Average Damage + Crit Rate + Attack Rate
    In order to have easier numbers to deal with, I'll take this out over a 100 second span of constant attacking, such as DPS'ing on a boss.

    Slingshot

    3537 + 5032 = 8569
    8569 / 2 = 4282 average damage per hit

    100 seconds = 91 hits
    91 x 4282 = 389,662 damage in the course of 100 seconds, not including crit rate

    Crits: 20%
    91 x .2 = 18.2
    18.2 x 4282 = 77,934

    Total damage over 100 seconds with crits:
    389,662 + 77,934 = 467,596

    Crossbow

    3167 + 5354 = 8521
    8521 / 2 = 4260 average damage per hit (ouch. already lower than sling average)

    100 seconds = 71 hits
    71 x 4260 = 302,460 damage in the course of 100 seconds, not including crit rate

    Crits: 20%
    71 x .2 = 14.2
    14.2 x 4260 = 60,492

    Total damage over 100 seconds with crits:
    302,460 + 60,492 = 362,952

    Sling 467,595 >>>> XBow 362,952
    Not to mention, the faster you attack, the more chi you get, the more times you can spark, the higher the damage output will be (:

    Now, moving on to your "end game" weapon.
    First of all, a slingshot can get Thundershocker as well.
    Now, the fact that you think Thundershocker is so pro makes me doubt you've even reached end game as an archer..
    Serious question... do you even PvP on archer?
    An archer isn't the type of character that should sit there attacking their opponents while they're mobile. Usually my opponents are stunned as I attack, and the fact that another stun, right after your initial one will cancel both stuns all together, can backfire on you.

    This game's PvP USED to be based on spike damage.
    That's why melee classes went for pure axes back then.
    That's why archers went for crossbows back then.

    Now, with so much interval gear available, though, you don't necessarily need that spike damage. I've killed heavy armors with nothing but pure DPS normal shots before. In fact, sometimes it's a lot easier to do that than to hope for high crit magical attacks. And trust me, getting through a well geared wiz and their stone barrier takes a lot more than a few good hits.

    1. This deals with long periods of time, and wow, a lot of -int gear with tome. Costing beyond 400 mil. Making it more than $450 USD even without refines / shards to make it notice-able? What about the players who are actually playing it without costing so much coin? Especially the ones that level too fast from BH.

    2. 20 more attacks in long periods of time, making it cost like 200+ more coins sinked just to do that in like 1 2/3 minutes with refines and shards. Crit is usually high so even with archer's base crit, crit is not guaranteed, So that one shot from take aim will basically still do more than just pea shooting.

    3. Was the heavy armored people in melee range? or were they just using outdated HA? I completely doubt that, I haven't even get scratched on my barb or BM with normal attacks, no matter how much -int they pump in their gears. One time an archer spammed metal attacks on my BM and he dealt way more DMG because I have poor m.def. It was a good duel.
    I, II and III spark is the most cheesiest skill in PWI and it should be removed or massively nerfed.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Posts: 1,206 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    1. This deals with long periods of time, and wow, a lot of -int gear with tome. Costing beyond 400 mil. Making it more than $450 USD even without refines / shards to make it notice-able? What about the players who are actually playing it without costing so much coin? Especially the ones that level too fast from BH.

    2. 20 more attacks in long periods of time, making it cost like 200+ more coins sinked just to do that in like 1 2/3 minutes with refines and shards. Crit is usually high so even with archer's base crit, crit is not guaranteed, So that one shot from take aim will basically still do more than just pea shooting.

    3. Was the heavy armored people in melee range? or were they just using outdated HA? I completely doubt that, I haven't even get scratched on my barb or BM with normal attacks, no matter how much -int they pump in their gears. One time an archer spammed metal attacks on my BM and he dealt way more DMG because I have poor m.def. It was a good duel.

    1. The gear he used in the build does not matter, it is merely a set of controlled variables used in order to isolate and make the experimental variables(the damage and the attack rate) more prominent and easier to compare to one another.

    2. I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make here. Your grammar and sentence structure is deplorable. >>;;

    3. Never been harmed by an archer using normal shot, huh? This is where it becomes painfully obvious that you haven't experienced any endgame PvP. Once you really get up there, even Catapult puller Barbs and other such HA users become subject to harm from physical attacks. That's just how it works.


    Seriously, quit while you're behind. You should really consider leaving the Archer forum before someone decides to fry your feeble brain with a math equation.b:bye
    On indefinite hiatus :3
  • Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    First of all, you failed to reply to:
    1. HP and Slow mods on solarslayer being useless
    2. The whole Thundershocker **** argument you brought up.
    3. Game evolving from spike damage pvp orientation to interval orientation (you kinda did touch the interval topic, but with fallacious arguments).

    So I take it you just have nothing to say because you know you're wrong (:
    1. This deals with long periods of time, and wow, a lot of -int gear with tome. Costing beyond 400 mil. Making it more than $450 USD even without refines / shards to make it notice-able? What about the players who are actually playing it without costing so much coin? Especially the ones that level too fast from BH.

    Yes, because you brought up that you steal aggro on bosses, meaning you were speaking of DPS... DPS is not damage per hit, it's damage over the course of a period of time. Both builds have the same gear. Either way, money is not the issue at hand, please stop trying to change the topic.
    2. 20 more attacks in long periods of time, making it cost like 200+ more coins sinked just to do that in like 1 2/3 minutes with refines and shards. Crit is usually high so even with archer's base crit, crit is not guaranteed, So that one shot from take aim will basically still do more than just pea shooting.

    20 more attacks... from JUST a weapon change... not a whole gear change. Notice how I used the exact same build for both weapons, as was already stated above...
    Wind and the Clouds can be acquired for like 150k coins. Solarslayer tends to cost slightly more. Just making a point, but once again, money is not the issue at hand.
    3. Was the heavy armored people in melee range? or were they just using outdated HA? I completely doubt that, I haven't even get scratched on my barb or BM with normal attacks, no matter how much -int they pump in their gears. One time an archer spammed metal attacks on my BM and he dealt way more DMG because I have poor m.def.

    They were not sitting at melee range. I do not let melee classes get within melee range. It's called kiting. They didn't have outdated HA, in fact, they were using TT99 with Nirvana, vit stones, the works. Good refines, great gear overall. I find it easier to 1 shot the poorly geared HAs, but with better geared ones, you have to learn to break their charm. BMs have marrows, bro, learn to use them.
    It was a good duel.

    Oh boy.....
  • Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    How in the world you kite with normal attacks? They reach you easier that way, they even have, well of course, better speed enhancement buffs. I never had kept archer trying to kite this same PSY I post with. He basically kept kiting, I chased him and he did not do much DMG and my DEF on this char is below 100. Basically the heavy classes seem to not enhance their defenses.
    Never been harmed by an archer using normal shot, huh? This is where it becomes painfully obvious that you haven't experienced any endgame PvP. Once you really get up there, even Catapult puller Barbs and other such HA users become subject to harm from physical attacks. That's just how it works.

    Dude, you sure are full of it, even if I reach endgame and prove you wrong with screen shots. What's next? "You haven't capped, so you have not experienced that." Its just base, normal, nothing added, mainly less than 1 second damage 90% throughout the archer's game. b:chuckle

    Then you must have experienced a bunch of fail barbs that thought 5APS is pro so they forget survivability. I will seek around for an archer with the wind and clouds and duel him/her for ya if you'd like, I will even screen shot it.
    I, II and III spark is the most cheesiest skill in PWI and it should be removed or massively nerfed.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    How in the world you kite with normal attacks? They reach you easier that way, they even have, well of course, better speed enhancement buffs. I never had kept archer trying to kite this same PSY I post with. He basically kept kiting, I chased him and he did not do much DMG and my DEF on this char is below 100. Basically the heavy classes seem to not enhance their defenses.



    Dude, you sure are full of it, even if I reach endgame and prove you wrong with screen shots. What's next? "You haven't capped, so you have not experienced that." Its just base, normal, nothing added, mainly less than 1 second damage 90% throughout the archer's game. b:chuckle

    Then you must have experienced a bunch of fail barbs that thought 5APS is pro so they forget survivability. I will seek around for an archer with the wind and clouds and duel him/her for ya if you'd like, I will even screen shot it.

    You obviously know nothing about this game.
    b:bye
  • Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    You obviously know nothing about this game.
    b:bye

    I save repair bills, I must know what I am talking about. How much do you pay for your repairs?
    I, II and III spark is the most cheesiest skill in PWI and it should be removed or massively nerfed.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I save repair bills, I must know what I am talking about. How much do you pay for your repairs?

    Never thought I'd live to see the day when mentally challenged children learn to type decently well and constantly find the correct web page in which to post.

    You have my admiration.
  • Posts: 511 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Never thought I'd live to see the day when mentally challenged children learn to type decently well and constantly find the correct web page in which to post.

    You have my admiration.

    I feel like a horrible person for laughing at this.
  • Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I save repair bills, I must know what I am talking about. How much do you pay for your repairs?

    My alt that never plays never has to pay anything for repair bills!

    b:chuckle
  • Posts: 1,206 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Dude, you sure are full of it, even if I reach endgame and prove you wrong with screen shots. What's next?

    No need to take my word for it. Lvl a character past 6x for once and try it yourself. No, really, I suggest it.b:cute
    On indefinite hiatus :3
  • Posts: 279 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    They squishy, I rather kite as assassins... But BMs are better kiters, however they don't need to kite because BMs are not squishy. Bah, my veno takes 1/3 as much damage as my sin honestly. It is annoying to kite >.>.

    Puncture wound > Deep sting > run back and knife throw. Easy to do :D

    And by doing so, you just increase the time it takes to kill the mob, making your profit and exp/sp gain overall, lower. If you were AoE grinding and either didn't have Earthquake or were waiting for energy to recharge, I could understand kiting so you don't just stand there and take hits in between Earthen Rifts. But come on, Assassins are not meant to kite. They are meant to kill as quickly as possible. Even the people on both sides of the Vit debate for Assassins will tell you that kiting is wrong for an Assassin. The only times you should kite are either for the above example, or when you are trying to solo a mini boss (such as Yansheng or Tideborn Traitor) and do not have a Cleric to heal you.

    If all you do is kite as an Assassin, you defeat the purpose of grinding as one. If you kite even once other than to just save your *** from dying because you let your HP get too low, you are doing it wrong.

    Yulk, there are times when I can actually respect what you say. Doing it the old fashion way and grinding your levels, I can understand and respect that, I used to be a part of that generation. Making sure you max all your skills before leveling, I can appreciate that as well. When you start doing things in the most inefficient manner though, I've gotta say WTF dude?
  • Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    And by doing so, you just increase the time it takes to kill the mob, making your profit and exp/sp gain overall, lower. If you were AoE grinding and either didn't have Earthquake or were waiting for energy to recharge, I could understand kiting so you don't just stand there and take hits in between Earthen Rifts. But come on, Assassins are not meant to kite. They are meant to kill as quickly as possible. Even the people on both sides of the Vit debate for Assassins will tell you that kiting is wrong for an Assassin. The only times you should kite are either for the above example, or when you are trying to solo a mini boss (such as Yansheng or Tideborn Traitor) and do not have a Cleric to heal you.

    If all you do is kite as an Assassin, you defeat the purpose of grinding as one. If you kite even once other than to just save your *** from dying because you let your HP get too low, you are doing it wrong.

    You have to understand he's using Puncture Wound...
    Meaning:
    1) He's an idiot....
    2) He's not even into his late 30s as a sin

    I choose to believe both.

Welcome!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.