To my fellow Psys

Anemone_ - Harshlands

Just thought I'd start a thread for people to post useful information on endgame Psy pvp.
Most of this people will probably already know but who knows, someone could end up learning something new!


My 1st tidbits come from fighting sins, I will always use Soul of Stunning instead of Soul of Ret against sins, I find that most sins will hardly ever start out with there Headhunt ability on there 1st move now.
They will usually just spark attack and there 5 aps will insta gib you even in white voodoo, the worst part about it is that most of the time you wont see it coming giving you no time to hit that precious Absolute domain button to save yourself.

I fought several rank 8 sins the other day and found I had a HUGE edge whenever I kept SoS up instead of SoR, it gave me the few precious seconds to pop Psychic will/Absolute domain and start casting Soulburn to turn the "tide". (No pun intended)

So how about the rest of you?

Want to share anything else to help the fellow community?

Risingson - Lost City

Anemone_ - Harshlands wrote: »

Just thought I'd start a thread for people to post useful information on endgame Psy pvp.
Most of this people will probably already know but who knows, someone could end up learning something new!


My 1st tidbits come from fighting sins, I will always use Soul of Stunning instead of Soul of Ret against sins, I find that most sins will hardly ever start out with there Headhunt ability on there 1st move now.
They will usually just spark attack and there 5 aps will insta gib you even in white voodoo, the worst part about it is that most of the time you wont see it coming giving you no time to hit that precious Absolute domain button to save yourself.

I fought several rank 8 sins the other day and found I had a HUGE edge whenever I kept SoS up instead of SoR, it gave me the few precious seconds to pop Psychic will/Absolute domain and start casting Soulburn to turn the "tide". (No pun intended)

So how about the rest of you?

Want to share anything else to help the fellow community?

I disagree on every single point. Soul of Retaliation is FAR better against Sins, at least for the first blow, because :

one, it ABSORBS damage, which, coupled with White Voodoo, allows you to live through the sparked aps long enough to react.

two, most Sins (well if they're not morons) will use their anti-stun skills (whatever it's called) before they attack you, making Soul of Stunning completely useless. So, while Soul of Retaliation might not reflect the effect, it will reflect the damage and absorb it.

three, well... I don't think I have a third point. The fact that you get hit for less and their own hp gets reduced a little by the reflect is far good enough to pick Soul of Retaliation over Soul of Stunning as a protection skill. The only time when I use Soul of Stunning against Sins is when they fail to kill me the first time, force back into stealth and try again, this time with their anti-stun skill on cooldown.

Also, I've never EVER used Soulburn against a Sin. It takes far too long to cast and it's super-uber obvious, so really I favor Earth Vector followed by any high-damage skills over that.

edit : Also, Expel is a LOT better against Sins, for the immune lasts longer and it allows you to save up Domain for later, if you have a fast-regenerating genie.

Cacophony - Lost City

You know, when I first hit 99, I had lvl 2 SoR and sage SoS. I thought SoS was amazing b ecause of the extended stun time, but really it only works once. Maze Steps, Domain, Red Sprint etc, completely nullify the only thing that skill does. With SoR, you at least get the damage reduction regardless of a reflected status effect. I don't think I use SoS against any class anymore to be quite honest.

Anemone_ - Harshlands

Maybe I didn't speak clearly enough in my 1st post, my apologies.

Here is why I disagree with what your saying:

one, it ABSORBS damage, which, coupled with White Voodoo, allows you to live through the sparked aps long enough to react.

Yes it will absorb 1 hit. ....Congrats?
The majority of the sins I fight now a days have close the the 5 aps mark, and even in white voodoo will kill me extremely quickly, Unless I'm always prepared to hit the expel button. (Which lets face it if we could always see sins coming this wouldn't be a problem, but most of the time we're caught off guard by them.)

two, most Sins (well if they're not morons) will use their anti-stun skills (whatever it's called) before they attack you, making Soul of Stunning completely useless. So, while Soul of Retaliation might not reflect the effect, it will reflect the damage and absorb it.

A completely valid point.
But to my experience I have yet to see a sin who as preemptively had some stun protection on themselves to stop the stun.

And if they do? Was the 600-800 damage from the 1 auto attack absorbed going to make ANY difference when it's followed by the 14 other attacks coming from him in the next 3 seconds?

Hardly.

three, well... I don't think I have a third point. The fact that you get hit for less and their own hp gets reduced a little by the reflect is far good enough to pick Soul of Retaliation over Soul of Stunning as a protection skill. The only time when I use Soul of Stunning against Sins is when they fail to kill me the first time, force back into stealth and try again, this time with their anti-stun skill on cooldown.

Nothing to say here. Hopefully the above posts should suffice.

Also, I've never EVER used Soulburn against a Sin. It takes far too long to cast and it's super-uber obvious, so really I favor Earth Vector followed by any high-damage skills over that.

I can see this.
To me the stun has yet to fail against any sin I've fought against. This could be dumb luck but with the stun in place it allows me plenty of enough time to cast a Soulburn.
I use this because a large portion of sins are (Sorry to say this) kinda cowards and will use there vanish as soon as anything goes wrong. With Soulburn this allows me to punish them if they try this.
(I can't tell you how many times I've Soulburned a sin only to have him try and vanish when things get hairy and die from the tick)

edit : Also, Expel is a LOT better against Sins, for the immune lasts longer and it allows you to save up Domain for later, if you have a fast-regenerating genie

I totally agree. I was just using AD as an example


In conclusion I can see what your saying here, but just wanted to tell you a bit of information as to what I was saying.

Risingson - Lost City

Erm. One hit is a huge deal when you're fighting high refined Sins, ijs. Also, you have to take Soulforce into the equation. The more Soulforce you got, the more damage SoR will absorb, and also reflect. I talk about the absorb AND the reflect all the time because they complete each other.

Right now, I got over 20k Soulforce, and 10x sins suffer over 1200 damage from SoR when they hit me, and I suffer almost none from their first hit. So yeah, I would say one hit is a big deal, when a Sin hits you for nearly 1k and you only have 5-6k hp?

And well if you don't meet Sins who don't use their anti-stun skills, well that's good for you but you're also fighting morons xD, so you know.

Also, if a Sin does not use his anti-stun, and you have SoS on, okay he will get stunned, but there's a good chance that you will get stunned too because of the first skill he used, which will most likely be a stun. So yeah, you're both stunned for about the same amount of time, and you gain nothing from it because he can stunlock you a lot better than you can stunlock him.

SoS is good, I still use it, just not right away. I make sure to use it when I know Sins are on their cooldown, because the stun is then guaranteed and you can actually do something to profit from it. Otherwise... SoR is just far, far better.

DemansPsy - Lost City

to be compltly honest, now a days i see more sins just normal att as an opener than use a stun skill, they pop retation, then stun, you expel, then they occult ice u before thier first stun ends and kill u if u didnt have white up, or do tons of damge if u did, or they could hit u for 10-20k crit while uy in white AND have retation off (there a sin in my sever that can acually do this, but he is the ultimate glass cannon, he's a one shot himself), i mean u could get that re tarded sin who does use a stun move first shot, but since most sinns r idiots, they irnonicly dont use thier skills and jsut attack while the smart sins att first then stun, makin retation useless vs aps sins.

personly thoguh, if ur gonna use SoS, u have to be in white then, aps glitcches through the hits, they'll hit u more than once before SoS goes off(and they dont have anti-stun), which is complty BS, iv even been hit by BMs twice w/ non 5 aps before SoS stuned them. anyway, for sins is kinda of a gamble, choose one and pray.

Overall pvp thoguh, SoS is more effective depednsing on who ur fightin, vs wiz, veno, and BMs and barbs(If you know they are coming and can kite them until thier anti stun wears off, SoS is FAR better to use vs them) id use SoS, vs a cleric(due to most clerics spaming plume shot, iv had clerics one shot themselfs on SoR), archers(even if they dont stun first shot, ur still reducing a high damge hit as well as the phy damge from SoR rippin through thier armor) , other psy (you know they gonna use vecotr asap, even if they take the time to pop retation first, might give u enoguh time to vector them instead, assuming they not doin same thing), and sins if your in black (see reason on archer) id use SoR instead, well thats my opinion at least

Anemone_ - Harshlands

Right now, I got over 20k Soulforce, and 10x sins suffer over 1200 damage from SoR when they hit me, and I suffer almost none from their first hit. So yeah, I would say one hit is a big deal, when a Sin hits you for nearly 1k and you only have 5-6k hp?

I do see what your saying, But quite honestly if sins are hitting you for 1k average a hit then that one attack spared isn't going to help much as soon as you die from the rest.


I'm not saying SoR is bad and to never use it against sins, just that when SoS does work (Which seems to be often) prevents that insta gib and puts you in a very good situation to "gibb" them right back.

Risingson - Lost City

Anemone_ - Harshlands wrote: »

I do see what your saying, But quite honestly if sins are hitting you for 1k average a hit then that one attack spared isn't going to help much as soon as you die from the rest.


I'm not saying SoR is bad and to never use it against sins, just that when SoS does work (Which seems to be often) prevents that insta gib and puts you in a very good situation to "gibb" them right back.

Well maybe it's just about luck but all the Sins I encounter use their anti-stun skills . Also, I probably survive a little more since I'm permanently charmed. As far as I'm concerned, SoR works better for me when they pop up.

Anemone_ - Harshlands

Risingson - Lost City wrote: »

Well maybe it's just about luck but all the Sins I encounter use their anti-stun skills . Also, I probably survive a little more since I'm permanently charmed. As far as I'm concerned, SoR works better for me when they pop up.

Could be luck.

I'll test it more tonight. (I'm sure I'll get lots of practice since 80% of my server seems to be sins b:surrender)

I'm also charmed all the time and have about 18k soulforce

Andrewhall - Raging Tide

ok, i found out latley that aoe on other players/mobs effect stealthed sins( i tried it out, killed a sin in stealth by attacking a player near him and me. so im wondering, will the genie skill earthquake, force sins out of stealth if they are near you ? i saw a barb use some skill that made red circles around him, says he gets many sins like that. that why im wondering about earthquakeb:thanks

Anemone_ - Harshlands

Andrewhall - Raging Tide wrote: »

ok, i found out latley that aoe on other players/mobs effect stealthed sins( i tried it out, killed a sin in stealth by attacking a player near him and me. so im wondering, will the genie skill earthquake, force sins out of stealth if they are near you ? i saw a barb use some skill that made red circles around him, says he gets many sins like that. that why im wondering about earthquakeb:thanks

A very good question. On theory to me it sounds like it would work, although I haven't personally tryed it.

I'll have to test it out after I get off work today.

MageFizban - Lost City

Also don't forget that not only do they have antistun, they could also possibly have Tidal Protection which 50% (66% if sage) of debuffs fail on them.

@DemansPsy

What is "retation"? Chill of the Deep?

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

can u cast earthquake without a target? i havent used this skill for a loong time.
if you can, there is no point in using it, u could use a regular aoe..why waste genie energy?

DemansPsy - Lost City

MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »

Also don't forget that not only do they have antistun, they could also possibly have Tidal Protection which 50% (66% if sage) of debuffs fail on them.

@DemansPsy

What is "retation"? Chill of the Deep?

Retaliation as in SoR(SoR is literly a bubble around u if u ever noticed), i suck at spelling -_-,

Longknife - Harshlands

Anemone_ - Harshlands wrote: »

My 1st tidbits come from fighting sins, I will always use Soul of Stunning instead of Soul of Ret against sins, I find that most sins will hardly ever start out with there Headhunt ability on there 1st move now.

Just because the sins are fighting like nabsh1ts doesn't mean you should too.

One Maze Steps and your entire Soul of Stunning is useless.

PinkyRose - Archosaur

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Just because the sins are fighting like nabsh1ts doesn't mean you should too.

One Maze Steps and your entire Soul of Stunning is useless.

Red Tide works....


>.> IJS......

Longknife - Harshlands

PinkyRose - Archosaur wrote: »

Red Tide works....


>.> IJS......

Why the holy balls would you Red Tide a sin?

DemansPsy - Lost City

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Why the holy balls would you Red Tide a sin?

^ not worth wasting the 2 sparks when u can 1 shot em (well 2 shot bc of the **** anti-death...and then there is chacne they could just aviod the hit as well...)

LittIewg - Heavens Tear

PinkyRose - Archosaur wrote: »

Red Tide works....


>.> IJS......

Lol? Are u kidding or being serious? Guys calm down,I think(Pray) Shes kidding. The only way RedTide would be acceptable on a sin is if ur name says BornFree. Shes the only psy that can get away with RedTide.

MageFizban - Lost City

LittIewg - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lol? Are u kidding or being serious? Guys calm down,I think(Pray) Shes kidding. The only way RedTide would be acceptable on a sin is if ur name says BornFree. Shes the only psy that can get away with RedTide.

She's like the ultimate Red Tide advocate. Although, I'd have to say. . .I only use it on noobs that I know I can oneshot because I like to see the animation once in a while. I don't think I've used it in pvp in over a month.

Oh, also use it in GV when I have too many sparks and all my other aoes are on CD.

threepointone

MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »

She's like the ultimate Red Tide advocate. Although, I'd have to say. . .I only use it on noobs that I know I can oneshot because I like to see the animation once in a while. I don't think I've used it in pvp in over a month.

Oh, also use it in GV when I have too many sparks and all my other aoes are on CD.

QFT.

/ballz

Vindrael - Lost City

Red Tide is awesome. It looks just like wizard Gush! b:chuckle

I usually keep SoR up if I'm out and about. If a sin opens with stun, they get stunned. As soon as they appear, I generally spam Psychic Will and try to eat a vacuity pot. If I manage to do that, 99.9% of the time the sin realizes it's a lost cause and goes back into stealth.

But then I have to go back into safe zone because I can absolutely guarantee they will pop back out of stealth 10 seconds later when everything has worn off and is in cooldown. b:sad

I am sooo looking forward to seekers. They have a self-centered AoE that auto-attacks and they can move around while it's activated. I'm guessing it will hit sins in stealth, since every other AoE in the game also hits nearby sins regardless of whether they are in stealth.

Oannes - Harshlands

The seeker skill Vindrael just mentioned is a 2 spark skill, so it will have its use limited. Also, on the topic of using earthquake to get sins out of stealth, its works pretty well, I had it for a while till I could get frenzy on my genie and I kept the skill at lvl 1 which hit the peeps around for hardly any damage and took only 30 energy, which still left enough energy on my genie for AD/Expel.

Keeping up SoR is essential, much more than SoS when sins are around. Most sins I encounter know about SoS and SoR and have maze step on when they pop out. The worst kind of sins for me are the ones with +10 nirv dags who don't bother opening with any skill bt rather count on aps. Only solution for them is either be in white vodoo and change to black after using psy will or hope your soul of silence hits. The sins also have shadow teleport which is another pain since the demon version stuns for 5 secs and SoR won't reflect it. Best thing to counter this is to preemptively use fortify, 3 sec immune to stun, and hope you timed it right. Fortify works wonders on BMs since most will charge at you and either occult ice or roar, so if timed right with psy will making you immune to phy damage, BMs can be negotiated with quickly.

Using SoS after their first stealth is actually a good idea since the next time they come at u their maze step will be on cd, and a 20k + soulforce with sage SoS stuns for 6 secs.

Anemone_ - Harshlands

Oannes - Harshlands wrote: »

The seeker skill Vindrael just mentioned is a 2 spark skill, so it will have its use limited. Also, on the topic of using earthquake to get sins out of stealth, its works pretty well, I had it for a while till I could get frenzy on my genie and I kept the skill at lvl 1 which hit the peeps around for hardly any damage and took only 30 energy, which still left enough energy on my genie for AD/Expel.

Keeping up SoR is essential, much more than SoS when sins are around. Most sins I encounter know about SoS and SoR and have maze step on when they pop out. The worst kind of sins for me are the ones with +10 nirv dags who don't bother opening with any skill bt rather count on aps. Only solution for them is either be in white vodoo and change to black after using psy will or hope your soul of silence hits. The sins also have shadow teleport which is another pain since the demon version stuns for 5 secs and SoR won't reflect it. Best thing to counter this is to preemptively use fortify, 3 sec immune to stun, and hope you timed it right. Fortify works wonders on BMs since most will charge at you and either occult ice or roar, so if timed right with psy will making you immune to phy damage, BMs can be negotiated with quickly.

Using SoS after their first stealth is actually a good idea since the next time they come at u their maze step will be on cd, and a 20k + soulforce with sage SoS stuns for 6 secs.

Hai Oannes!


And yeah I agree about SoR being better against "smart sins". Yet I still use it sometimes against them as an opener, and most of the time it seems to be successful. b:chuckle

I almost believe that the higher aps people fall for it more. I think they're so used to effortlessly killing caster classes they become lackadaisical in there approach, and then end up falling for it.

Kawailele - Sanctuary

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Why the holy balls would you Red Tide a sin?

LMAO y would u even use it the skill it self in PVP is an overall lame skill waste of 2 sparks yess my water mastery and Red Tide is sage its just fun 2 fly all over the place u should try it with out the blessing +30 attack lv it's even more sad b:cry b:chuckle

oh and i came across alot of sins (with - int rank/nirvana with +7 or more there are alot of them on my server) that pop out of stealth that kill me with SoS and sage white voodo on it went like this:

1.sin pops out of stealth then hits me

2. the sin kills me

3. then sin gets stun

4.im dead on the ground, stun on the sin comes off

5. they go back in2 stealth

6. if they got the nerv they say " U IS A BIG FAT NOOB"b:laugh b:cry but mostly the supper evil uber sins do that XD

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

a random thought:
if someone can use anti-stun to avoid SoS, he can use the same antistun to avoid the reflected stun from SoR.

in my noobish view, someone using anti-stun and avoiding the initial stun is still something; due to cooldown they wont be able to use it again soon.
on the other hand, the plethora of anti-stun and related skills/apo kinda decreases the benefit from that

since i'm mostly in white and my soulforce is low, the reflect isnt really good; and the reduced dmg isnt that great if the attack is dps-based (aka sins).

of course, SoR is great when people are not-so-well informed about it and just read the buff description; "omg it will reflect everything b:shocked"

btw, how do u counter cleric sleep?

evolution1234

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

btw, how do u counter cleric sleep?

I think the whole idea is to not let whoever attack you know which spell you have on, whether it is stun or absorb damage. They are both great skills once lvl 11.

btw, cleric sleep is OP. Find a rank8 +10 cleric to sleep u, then phys debuff, extreme poison, tangling mire, frenzy, 3 spark, plume shot. b:shutup

Hypnos - Raging Tide

vs Cleric: use SoS while on white voodoo and stall untill they used sleep seal.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Hypnos - Raging Tide wrote: »

vs Cleric: use SoS while on white voodoo and stall untill they used sleep seal.

that's a pretty nice strategy yay xd

MageFizban - Lost City

evolution1234 wrote: »

I think the whole idea is to not let whoever attack you know which spell you have on, whether it is stun or absorb damage. They are both great skills once lvl 11.

btw, cleric sleep is OP. Find a rank8 +10 cleric to sleep u, then phys debuff, extreme poison, tangling mire, frenzy, 3 spark, plume shot. b:shutup

Expel.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »

Expel.

tempest b:avoid

[well, for me a lot of other metal skills work too :b]