Suggestion for TW fix

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

Planned TW fix is a nice move but I got an idea to improve it even more.

Introduce the rule that faction leader can't bid on lands if his faction already holds 20 lands (lvl 1 land would count as 3 normal lands, lvl 2 land would count as 2 normal lands).


This should be enough to pay for building towers, bidding and HP charms/cata scrolls usage but it will stop any guild from taking over the entire map and killing TW on the server for other guilds.


Other benefit: no faction will be able to hold (defend) Thousand Streams and Archosaur at the same time, blocking other factions from access to best apothecary potions.


Being "20 lands faction" will be recognized as a new achievement and ultimate goal for any competitive faction.



PS. I posted this in this in general discussion as I want this idea to be discussed by common players first.

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary

Kill the fun in taking the whole map? No.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

What happens if you and the other top TW faction reaches 20? They can't bid and thus, TW is just..................lame. lol

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

That's not a fix for anything, just nerfing it again.

I can't wait till we have the new 40 vs 40 TW system with the Guild Bases. That will be interesting to see how they design it.

Regenbogen - Lost City

whatever PWI does its just another way to tell people CHARGE MORE or gtfo...b:shutup

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary

Tw`s will be fun only with r8,9 ppl b:shocked

PinkyRose - Archosaur

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote: »

Kill the fun in taking the whole map? No.

It's only fun if you're one of the people who's wallet is playing the game.

Now, if you're like every NORMALLY decent person on server, you charge every now and then.



Did you know that it is now a REQUIREMENT to have Rank Gear to apply to Zulu? (who owns the ENTIRE MAP EXCEPT FOR TWO SPOTS, and has been defeated ONLY ONCE?)

How about we take away your credit card, and make you start a new character? I bet you'd be changing your tune. It's resonable for players who pay to have an advantage. It's COMPLETELY stupid to have people who's wallets are playing the game for them run the whole show.

Korrok - Harshlands

PinkyRose - Archosaur wrote: »

It's only fun if you're one of the people who's wallet is playing the game.

Now, if you're like every NORMALLY decent person on server, you charge every now and then.



Did you know that it is now a REQUIREMENT to have Rank Gear to apply to Zulu? (who owns the ENTIRE MAP EXCEPT FOR TWO SPOTS, and has been defeated ONLY ONCE?)

How about we take away your credit card, and make you start a new character? I bet you'd be changing your tune. It's resonable for players who pay to have an advantage. It's COMPLETELY stupid to have people who's wallets are playing the game for them run the whole show.

You realize that most people in zulu got r8 without CSing a penny right? It takes MAYBE 2 weeks of work to earn 70 mil in this game. Maybe.

I don't know why everyone on harshlands has to fall back on the "omg they out CSed us crutch," but that right there is the reason everyone's getting rickrolled by them in TW.

Stop with the excuses, point the finger in the right direction, and then do something about it. Blaming "cash shopping" is basically like refusing to improve.

Zulu expects people who apply to have either 1: rank gear (cheaper than a full TT99 set, btw) or 2: decent non-rank gear. It's honestly no different than expecting a 100+ member to know wtf they're doing in PvP and not having horrible gear. If that's "playing the game with our wallets" then I guess you guys are just forever doomed to TW with people packing TT80 gold at level 100.

NatureLover - Harshlands

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote: »

Kill the fun in taking the whole map? No.

so.. you prefer one faction to take the whole map and then tw for that server ceases? hm... wonder how would u feel towards tw if you are not in that dominating faction.

And to OP, putting a limit to number of lands a faction can control has been suggested many times over.... e.g. like
1) Faction can hold at most x no. of land
2) Faction can hold at most 2/3 of the server's land
3) Map reset after a faction hold x no. of land

This isnt fixing anything. If you fix a faction at 20 lands, then the map will be dominated by 2 factions with 20 lands each. TW is still dead.

I would prefer the timeslot limit to be removed and bidders get to choose from an option of timeslots. So there can be 10 factions vs 1 faction at the SAME time or more.

_Nei_ - Sanctuary

Sorry but I didn't consider this as a fix, the problem from dominates factions is fake bids at TW where the strongest factions outbid others to don't get attacked or multiple attack at other factions, even if we can see the bid or not.

Dralighte - Harshlands

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote: »

Kill the fun in taking the whole map? No.

+1
It's a part of the game. At the end, if the faction decides to disband, it will be a ''reset'' after. I dont see the problem b:bye

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What happens if you and the other top TW faction reaches 20? They can't bid and thus, TW is just..................lame. lol

What if your faction dominates entire map and there is no one else to attack?

It's the same.

Except that in 20 lands limit scenario you can always lose 1 land on purpose and attack the other top faction next week.


20 lands is almost the half of the map. There would be a room for 2 dominant factions defending their lands every week + 3rd, smaller one. It's the worst case scenario and yet it's still more healthy than what we see on *all* current TW maps.
Hopefully, it will end with plenty of big and medium sized factions fighting each other every week.


This fix will promote entire servers participating and enjoying TWs rather than few selected "elite" ones... what ultimately ends in "chosen 200" sitting on pile of money and others QQing about dead TW.

Dralighte - Harshlands wrote: »

It's a part of the game. At the end, if the faction decides to disband, it will be a ''reset'' after. I dont see the problem b:bye

What if faction which took entire map chooses to not disband... and just earn a lot of money every week and gear themselves up so they will never lose? Not a problem?

Dalesr - Harshlands

/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »

Planned TW fix is a nice move but I got an idea to improve it even more.

Introduce the rule that faction leader can't bid on lands if his faction already holds 20 lands (lvl 1 land would count as 3 normal lands, lvl 2 land would count as 2 normal lands).

This is so stupid I stopped reading there b:bye

Zoe - Heavens Tear

The best fix was already mentioned. You shouldn't be able to have more land than you can defend. You must be able to defend every land you have AT THE SAME TIME.

Let there be only one time slot. All TWs happen at once. You can have to defend 10 lands from 10 factions attacking you all at the exact same moment. Of course it would be impossible to defend from such an attack, which is the entire point. TW would never get old since it would be impossible for anyone to ever control the map.

Dralighte - Harshlands

/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »

What if faction which took entire map chooses to not disband... and just earn a lot of money every week and gear themselves up so they will never lose? Not a problem?

they will, one day, if there's no challenge. I dont see the problem to gear up WITHOUT csing

ahdi

What ever the solution is, hope it will be figured it out.

Heres a thought anyway.

- Majority of people who either have the time or wants to participate in tw should be able to gain something from it. Gains can be in the form of pvp, coins social... etc.

- There should exist guilds that are the best, the 2nd best, the willing, the hopeful.. and perhaps more.

- The best guild should be able to own most of the land, of say 2/3, but no more.

- They will gain more then others for being part of the best guild. They should be rewarded with more coins, or more pvp fun, or rare items.

The reason is that TW is no longer fair. Since the introduction of 5 aps, closely followed by nirvana, then rank 8/9, its dificult for majority to enjoy Tw. Tw, if I'm not wrong, does not include majority of high levels.
To make it more fair imo. TW should include people with skills, talent, golds, time.. etc.

Anyway, with 1/3 of the land left, this will a number of other possibilities for TW guilds.

1. to allow the 2nd best guild to attract more members to compete against the best guild.

2. to weaken the best and perhaps also the 2nd best guild too, for more to dare challange them.

3. to allow for more guild stragety, diplomacy, alliance.

4. (fill in the gaps)

TheDan - Sanctuary

It's not a fix, just an excuse for non competitive factions to get on the map when they really stand no chance. False hope in short. In order to maintain a competitive atmosphere there needs to be checks and balances, in this case small factions pose no threat or check to the large ones... if smaller factions gained blessings like in coa, that would be a potential check. But not a replacement for structure or organization. Limiting lands does not guarantee a threat from other factions.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

This is a terrible idea, this just results in 2-3 factions taking as many lands as they can hold and then TW dies. Literally, these 3 factions just sit there everyweek, not fighting each other, just... sitting there.

Fleuri - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's not a fix, just an excuse for non competitive factions to get on the map when they really stand no chance. False hope in short. In order to maintain a competitive atmosphere there needs to be checks and balances, in this case small factions pose no threat or check to the large ones... if smaller factions gained blessings like in coa, that would be a potential check. But not a replacement for structure or organization. Limiting lands does not guarantee a threat from other factions.

I agree that CoA style blessings would open up TW for non-endgame players. It would also drive up the price on highly refined low-level gear, and towers would need to be redesigned to keep things in balance, and maybe additional changes would be needed.

I think another -- perhaps simpler -- mechanism that they might use to even the playing field would be to introduce a handicap system for the high end guilds. For example, currently if you have one territory you have one defensive battle, two territories can give you two defensive battles, and three territories gives you three defensive battles, and after that you stay with three potential defensive battles. But they could change that -- maybe you do not get 3 potential defensive battles until you own four territories, and every time you double the number of territories you control you open yourself up to another potential defensive battle. Or, perhaps base it on tripling the territory you control, instead of doubling? This would give you a 3 way defensive war when you have 9 territories and a four way war when you have 27, and there would be no five way wars. Yet another variation would be to randomize it each week, with the range of random possibilities depending on the territories you control and perhaps how things were last week.

There will still be other issues, of course, but I think TW could use some additional diminishing returns.

tl;dr version: they can do stuff differently.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

I agree that CoA style blessings would open up TW for non-endgame players. It would also drive up the price on highly refined low-level gear, and towers would need to be redesigned to keep things in balance, and maybe additional changes would be needed.

TW is designed for endgame players. TW isn't meant for every random lowbie guild to be able to have good long TWs and be able to get on the map. TW is designed for the "elite" players, designed so that only the top guilds get on the map and are competitive in TW.

Ruxal - Harshlands

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

TW is designed for endgame players. TW isn't meant for every random lowbie guild to be able to have good long TWs and be able to get on the map. TW is designed for the "elite" players, designed so that only the top guilds get on the map and are competitive in TW.

Its boring and it eliminates most players from enjoying it. This whole elitism thing goes against what the internet and mmos were originally intended for. Instead of bringing players together all it does is drive them apart. Well done PWI.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

It creates competition.


If any lowbie could get on the map, then why even bother having TWs? Why even bother fighting over it. If anyone could get on the map then why fight over it?


Without it being designed for the "elite" players, then it would be a bunch of carebears holding hands and having tea parties.

Ruxal - Harshlands

What competition? Where? In another well known mmo where there is balance? yes there of course. But here? PWI? please, gimme a break.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Ruxal - Harshlands wrote: »

What competition? Where? In another well known mmo where there is balance? yes there of course. But here? PWI? please, gimme a break.

Have you even done a TW? Please don't talk about matters where you have zero experience.



I'm talking about having back to back 3 hour TWs every weekend. Fighting for 3 hours and going through two platinum charms in a single TW as well as burning hundreds of hp pots and apothecary, and 200k+ genie stamina and then after that crazy TW losing because time ran out when you had 3 catas on their crystal and it was at 25%

Ruxal - Harshlands

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Have you even done a TW? Please don't talk about matters where you have zero experience.



I'm talking about having back to back 3 hour TWs every weekend. Fighting for 3 hours and going through two platinum charms in a single TW as well as burning hundreds of hp pots and apothecary, and 200k+ genie stamina and then after that crazy TW losing because time ran out when you had 3 catas on their crystal and it was at 25%

You see by restricting the number of lands any faction can hold, it means that competition can exist between lesser factions and hence all can have some of the fun. For instance in one game I know there was the ability to compete by level range. This meant that high vs high, med vs med and low vs low allowed all players across three main ranges to compete versus each other and for rewards that were appropriate to the level.

You are seeing competition strictly in terms of highest and best versus highest and best.

But you have declared where you stand, you are an elitist and believe certain aspects of the game should only be enjoyed by the highest and best.

This is sad because the highest and best do not represent the majority of the players. A better example is the upcoming faction bases. Instead of it being a feature for all players so they can all enjoy it, it has been introduced at a cost that means that only the bigger higher level factions or a faction leader loaded with cash can afford.

ZeaKuro - Raging Tide

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The best fix was already mentioned. You shouldn't be able to have more land than you can defend. You must be able to defend every land you have AT THE SAME TIME.

Let there be only one time slot. All TWs happen at once. You can have to defend 10 lands from 10 factions attacking you all at the exact same moment. Of course it would be impossible to defend from such an attack, which is the entire point. TW would never get old since it would be impossible for anyone to ever control the map.

This.

Maybe not having them all at once, but letting the attacking faction select their time slot with no limit on how many times a faction can be attacked at once.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Ruxal - Harshlands wrote: »

You see by restricting the number of lands any faction can hold, it means that competition can exist between lesser factions and hence all can have some of the fun. For instance in one game I know there was the ability to compete by level range. This meant that high vs high, med vs med and low vs low allowed all players across three main ranges to compete versus each other and for rewards that were appropriate to the level.

You are seeing competition strictly in terms of highest and best versus highest and best.

But you have declared where you stand, you are an elitist and believe certain aspects of the game should only be enjoyed by the highest and best.

This is sad because the highest and best do not represent the majority of the players. A better example is the upcoming faction bases. Instead of it being a feature for all players so they can all enjoy it, it has been introduced at a cost that means that only the bigger higher level factions or a faction leader loaded with cash can afford.

You can't have it both ways, if everyone and their cousin can compete and TW and not get rolled in 5 minutes then their will be no competition.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

lol, carebear wiz on a pvp server....

if there is nothing to be gained by being on top, whats the point of trying to get there? artificial limits on what a faction can hold is at least a bad idea, but is more likely trolling people who have earned it.

PvP means one of the Ps has to be the loser, if a weaker P can be equal to a stronger P, weak P has no incentive to improve.

none of the top factions have god-mode enabled, they just do what they do better than everyone else. now that the incentive to improve is back, TWs will get better, giving away +30 A/D blessings with +% HP isnt going to
help anybody improve, and wont make PWI any more money.

Edit:
#1 rule on forums is no agreeing with Zoe, because she's always wrong

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The best fix was already mentioned. You shouldn't be able to have more land than you can defend. You must be able to defend every land you have AT THE SAME TIME.

Let there be only one time slot. All TWs happen at once. You can have to defend 10 lands from 10 factions attacking you all at the exact same moment. Of course it would be impossible to defend from such an attack, which is the entire point. TW would never get old since it would be impossible for anyone to ever control the map.

how is that the best fix? it would effectively limit all factions to owning 3 lands and attacking 1, 1 loss and 1 gain a week, there would be no competition. each large faction would hold 1 city, the largest would hold ether and arch, 2nd would hold 1k, and no large guilds would ever meet because they would have to stretch themselves too thin to do so. large factions would make alt factions so they could take lesser lands if nobody bid on their city and suburb.

smaller factions would be limited to the size of their faction, and 3 lands. with nothing to strive for because they would be limited by mechanics. resulting in the weakest viable factions squabbling over 3 or 4 random pieces of land while more established factions collected a weekly 30m - 70m for doing nothing

Ruxal - Harshlands

What I suggested is not carebear. What I suggested makes the game more competitive across the board.

GoodStart - Dreamweaver

The best idea for making TW more competitive has been brought up a few times. Allow any land bearing faction to be attacked simultaneously by as many factions that successfully bid on their land.

Example: Faction "WeOwnMap" controls 20 territories. The potential exists that they could see up to 20 defenses at once.

This is a bit extreme, but each server has already seen TW maps owned by only one or two factions. The notion of owning only what you can protect seems much more fun to me, and it opens the TW aspect of this game to many more players.

Some will argue that TW is an endgame instance that should only be enjoyed by endgame players. In case those people that hold that side of the arguement have not noticed, "endgame" is achieved rather quickly now days, both in terms of lvl and gear (at least in comparison to what it once was). While the above suggestion might allow a few "nub factions" to gain a territory from time to time, I see that as a small price to pay for increasing the difficulty and challenge of your "endgame" instance.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

QQ i lost, let's change the game's rules.

let's make it so nobody can win since i cannot