Def Lvl vs Pdef Refinement

Traz - Dreamweaver

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=30e7eb3c211cb9e5

Knowing said build above, I was still working out what the best ring would be for me (to reduce the most damage taken). Right now I set it up as the rank 9 ring due to the 5 defensive levels. Now I'm starting to wonder if that ring is better or a refined lunar ring.

What refinement does a lunar ring have to be to = the 5 defensive levels?

I was trying to figure out if I +10 my lunar ring (for instance) if that will reduce the more overall damage then getting 5 defensive levels. Also note that I have no other defensive levels in the build that would be it. I am pretty sure that 5 def levels would reduce much more magic damage, but I was also wondering about the physical damage.

So 5 def levels from the r9 ring or +10 lunar ring......go!

PS. I know it's a sin but the archers are the ones that do all the math. b:surrender

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What refinement does a lunar ring have to be to = the 5 defensive levels?

Of course, the two rings will never be equal. For example, the physical attack you get from your rank 9 ring will never be matched by a lunar ring.

But here are some physical raw damage soak numbers with the trauma ring (how much damage has to be generated, before attack and defense levels and before defenses, to exceed your total health):

level 100 opponent, 93 attack levels: 35403 = 16881 / ((1 + (93-5)/100)*(1 - 11771/(11771 + 40 * 100)))
level 105 opponent, 30 attack levels: 53246 = 16881 / ((1 + (30-5)/100)*(1 - 11771/(11771 + 40 * 105)))
level 150 opponent, 0 attack levels: 52999 = 16881 * (1 + 1.2*5/100)/ ((1 - 11771/(11771 + 40 * 150)))

And here are some higher raw damage soak numbers with the lunar ring, assuming pwcalc gets the pdef numbers right:

+4 refined ring, level 100 opponent, 93 attack levels: 35413 = 16881 / ((1 + 93/100)*(1 - 12195/(12195+ 40 * 100)))
+8 refined ring, level 105 opponent, 30 attack levels: 53364 = 16881 / ((1 + 30/100)*(1 -
13060/(13060+ 40 * 105)))
+8 refined ring, level 150 opponent, 0 attack levels: 53625 = 16881 / (1-13060/(13060+40*150))

(Attack levels reduce the effectiveness of defense levels, which marginalizes their usefulness for high end pvp players.)

And note here that I have assumed that you do not have a pdef buff (actually, I am assuming that the buff is whatever you had set for that pwcalc url you gave. I did not bother to look and see how you had that set up).

Traz - Dreamweaver

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

Of course, the two rings will never be equal. For example, the physical attack you get from your rank 9 ring will never be matched by a lunar ring.

But here are some physical raw damage soak numbers with the trauma ring (how much damage has to be generated, before attack and defense levels and before defenses, to exceed your total health):

level 100 opponent, 93 attack levels: 35403 = 16881 / ((1 + (93-5)/100)*(1 - 11771/(11771 + 40 * 100)))
level 105 opponent, 30 attack levels: 53246 = 16881 / ((1 + (30-5)/100)*(1 - 11771/(11771 + 40 * 105)))
level 150 opponent, 0 attack levels: 52999 = 16881 * (1 + 1.2*5/100)/ ((1 - 11771/(11771 + 40 * 150)))

And here are some higher raw damage soak numbers with the lunar ring, assuming pwcalc gets the pdef numbers right:

+4 refined ring, level 100 opponent, 93 attack levels: 35413 = 16881 / ((1 + 93/100)*(1 - 12195/(12195+ 40 * 100)))
+8 refined ring, level 105 opponent, 30 attack levels: 53364 = 16881 / ((1 + 30/100)*(1 -
13060/(13060+ 40 * 100)))
+8 refined ring, level 150 opponent, 0 attack levels: 53625 = 16881 / (1-13060/(13060+40*100))

(Attack levels reduce the effectiveness of defense levels, which marginalizes their usefulness for high end pvp players.)

And note here that I have assumed that you do not have a pdef buff (actually, I am assuming that the buff is whatever you had set for that pwcalc url you gave. I did not bother to look and see how you had that set up).

That url is with full buffs, and I was talking in a pve setting mainly so for damage taken by something like 3-2 emperor. Would lunar ring +x be better for emperor or would 5 def levels from said r9 ring. That's kinda what I was trying to analyze.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That url is with full buffs, and I was talking in a pve setting mainly so for damage taken by something like 3-2 emperor. Would lunar ring +x be better for emperor or would 5 def levels from said r9 ring. That's kinda what I was trying to analyze.

Fleuri answered that question. According to her, for a [?] mob like 3-2 emperor, the r9 ring has less survival benefit than a +8 lunar ring.

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Fleuri answered that question. According to her, for a [?] mob like 3-2 emperor, the r9 ring has less survival benefit than a +8 lunar ring.

I tried to give an answer for that case, but my answer was confusing and conditional (and I do not know if the any of the new 3-2 bosses use attack levels, and I do not think eye of observation works on them -- but if they do use attack levels, that favors the lunar ring).

Traz - Dreamweaver

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

I tried to give an answer for that case, but my answer was confusing and conditional (and I do not know if the any of the new 3-2 bosses use attack levels, and I do not think eye of observation works on them -- but if they do use attack levels, that favors the lunar ring).

Thank you for the answer, I never said that and it was kinda rude not to. I know some bosses in 3-x now use frenzy sometimes. I can't remember which ones exactly but there are other bosses like snakefist that use frenzy too. For those I'd have to shift between my +7 lunar ring and the r9 ring.

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Thank you for the answer, I never said that and it was kinda rude not to. I know some bosses in 3-x now use frenzy sometimes. I can't remember which ones exactly but there are other bosses like snakefist that use frenzy too. For those I'd have to shift between my +7 lunar ring and the r9 ring.

Another issue is their magic attacks. If you can cancel all of their magic attacks, magic attacks will not matter. Otherwise you would need to run similar equations for your elemental defenses (except that refining your ring will not help there). And then you get to choose which you care about (perhaps by totally up the damage you take for a period of time in a fight, and seeing what proportion is magic and what proportion is physical -- once you have that you can scale your survivability numbers the same way and find out which combination gives you the biggest total).

Traz - Dreamweaver

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

Another issue is their magic attacks. If you can cancel all of their magic attacks, magic attacks will not matter. Otherwise you would need to run similar equations for your elemental defenses (except that refining your ring will not help there). And then you get to choose which you care about (perhaps by totally up the damage you take for a period of time in a fight, and seeing what proportion is magic and what proportion is physical -- once you have that you can scale your survivability numbers the same way and find out which combination gives you the biggest total).

I do go with a barb for 3-2/3-3 but I can take some very hefty magic damage from emperor (10k hits sometimes b:surrender). So it really seems to be up in the air for the best choice. But I know for events, the r9 ring and all that damage is going to be sexy. b:dirty