Attack Cleric.....Demon or Sage?

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary

I'm thinking way ahead on my cleric. She's not even 20 yet and I'm thinking about Sage and Demon.

My main's a veno so I figure, I can get the money from my veno to buy my cleric skills ahead of time. b:cute

But I'm not sure which is better, Demon or Sage?

She's more than likely going to be a PvP cleric and she's definately a Attack cleric so...can anyone help? b:surrender

I'm on Sacntuary Server and my charas are listed in my signature if you wanna whisp me in game. Thankies bunches to those who help. ^^

jamminjimmy

The demon skilz have more atck power the sage has more stayin alive add ons.

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary

jamminjimmy wrote: »

The demon skilz have more atck power the sage has more stayin alive add ons.

I asked a Demon Attack Cleric which I should choose. He gave me that same reason. So...I just bought my lvl 16 cleric Demon Plume Shot b:cool

Decus - Dreamweaver

jamminjimmy wrote: »

The demon skilz have more atck power the sage has more stayin alive add ons.

Um... that's a gross oversimplification.

Read skill descriptions and find what you like, as well as what is reasonable to acquire. I chose demon because of some attack skills, some buffs, and some heals. I used all of the skills I wanted to upgrade often and liked the bonuses that the demon culti offered.

jamminjimmy

wieghed both and chose sage but each there own theres a fan website i wont name here but it shows all side by side.

sometimes simple best exsplination.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

I would say you are thinking about this way to early as sage might be better for you when the time comes.I wouldn't think about this yet just lvl up all your skills as you lvl.

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary

Most clerics I know are demon. Most of them are also support clerics. I asked him since I couldn't ask Aca which would be better for an attack cleric. They're both Demon Clerics, he's attack and she's both support and attack. I'm asking them how to build my cleric. I know neither of them will purposely steer me wrong.

But please, tell me what YOU think of the demon skills compared to the sage skills personally. I don't mean for that to seem like a smart *** request. I do honestly want people's opinions or I wouldn't have made this thread to begin with.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

If PvP is your goal then demon for three reasons
http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/skillep.php

Silent Seal: Demon version does not reduce your attack damage.
vs. Sage version extends freeze effect by two seconds.

Chromatic Seal: Demon version does causes no reduction in speed
vs. Sage version extends sleep effect by 4 seconds.

Sprits Gift: Demon Version grants an additional 150% to magic attack for 10 seconds.
vs. Sage version gives 900 mana over 15 seconds.

Demon Wield Thunder is also nice for pvp. My personal view of the differences is demon is a little more versatile in its range of uses, versus sage which is awesome for keeping a tank alive with the traditional cleric situation (tank on boss holding aggro, cleric healing) with defense buffs, extra heals and mdef boosts.

I also cringe when I hear the phrase "attack cleric." Active in forums and have a lvl 90 cleric but still not sure what the difference between an attack cleric and a support cleric is, other than the "attack clerics" usually are attacking while my hp goes to 10%, they well spring once or twice then attack again with no further heals. Not sure if the build for an attack clerics is pure magic for more attack damage, or the super vita clerics I see around with tons of vit and no healing power. My friend calls his build an attack build because its pure mag. I call my build a support build because its pure mag. The only difference we really see if personal playstyle, and he had all his attack skills maxed before leveling his buffs and heal past level 3or 4. So yah, that's a reason I cringe.

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

If PvP is your goal then demon for three reasons
http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/skillep.php

I also cringe when I hear the phrase "attack cleric." Active in forums and have a lvl 90 cleric but still not sure what the difference between an attack cleric and a support cleric is, other than the "attack clerics" usually are attacking while my hp goes to 10%, they well spring once or twice then attack again with no further heals. Not sure if the build for an attack clerics is pure magic for more attack damage, or the super vita clerics I see around with tons of vit and no healing power. My friend calls his build an attack build because its pure mag. I call my build a support build because its pure mag. The only difference we really see if personal playstyle, and he had all his attack skills maxed before leveling his buffs and heal past level 3or 4. So yah, that's a reason I cringe.

The only thing I'm liking about Sage is the buffs, I perfer Demon on everything else because I know I'm a PKr at heart, I started PK at 40 on my veno hence my saying this.

Thank you for the link, I had forgot to check ecatomb. But that did make it official, I'm definately (misspelled I think.) going demon.


And I'm gonna make sure there's a second cleric in my bh squads and what not because I'm gonna leave Revive at level 1, not getting hour buffs, and my squad heal will remain level 1 till I decide I need it or I have the extra spirit/coin to blow on them. My attacks are more important than stuff that helps other people and not me. I get a bad rep for it? I don't care, if I did, I wouldn't still be playing. ^^


Thank you guys for the info. b:thanks

RedsRose - Lost City

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary wrote: »

And I'm gonna make sure there's a second cleric in my bh squads and what not because I'm gonna leave Revive at level 1, not getting hour buffs, and my squad heal will remain level 1 till I decide I need it or I have the extra spirit/coin to blow on them. My attacks are more important than stuff that helps other people and not me. I get a bad rep for it? I don't care, if I did, I wouldn't still be playing. ^^

I think you might be missing the point of what a Cleric does. Yes, you can be a support and an "attack" (hate that term) Cleric. In fact MANY full-support Clerics can out put a lot of damage without any special add-on's, skills, etc.

Sorry to say, but at a higher level it will be both difficult for you to have 2 Clerics in a BH squad and to find a party that will accommodate one with level 1 Revive. It is just they way it is in this game. Once you can get level 11 Revive, things change and at higher levels people do not want to lose experience (as a Cleric you learn to survive or carry GA's if you too do not want to lose exp should you happen to die).

In terms of Sage or Demon, it very much depends on what you like. If you take a close look, many of the add-on's are the same for the Sage/Demon skills but they are just on different skills. For example: Sage Vangaurd gives an extra 100% pdef for 10 seconds and Demon SoR does the same but with a much longer cast/channel. Sage Spirit's Gift recovers your mp (self only) and Demon Guardian Seal does the same.

Neither is specifically for "attacking," although Demon's are more associated with those that like to "pew-pew." Make sure you take a good look at all the skills...As a Sage Cleric, there is only one Demon skill that I particularly like and that is Demon's Spirit's Gift.

As a Cleric, you can fully support and dd at the same time, that imo comes with experience and allows the class to be fairly well balanced and often under-estimated in what they can do.

You can see all of the skills side by side here.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

My cleric was an attack cleric but I never had much problems getting my heals and buffs maxed. I leveled all my buffs and heals to max along with my attack skills due to the convince factor: I often had to be the only cleric in squad and it was much easier to just squad buff people then do it one by one. Revive was easy to max compared to many other skills so I did that as well. Demon was my choice due to spark, purify, Spirit's Gift, Vanguard Spirit + Magic Shell (gotta love that extra chi), Wield thunder and the mastery. I would have gone sage mostly for the same skills though, just for different reasons.

Sanct PK really needs another cleric b:chuckle

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sanct PK really needs another cleric b:chuckle

I'm not gonna be a 1 shot cleric. I've watched clerics in PK, I've check numerous clerics' gears. I know how to make myself as a PK cleric and survive.....As long as Wizzeled doesn't barrage me b:chuckle

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

I think you might be missing the point of what a Cleric does. Yes, you can be a support and an "attack" (hate that term) Cleric. In fact MANY full-support Clerics can out put a lot of damage without any special add-on's, skills, etc.

I'm missing the point? b:puzzled
You must've misunderstood me. I'm not made to be in a squad for bh/tw/in general and just heal someone. I can't do it. I rather watch your pixel self die than be your crutch in whatever we do.

I'm not gonna argue this point anymore. I've chose Demon for my cleric just like I chose Sage for my psychic and Demon for my veno. It's what I know will suit me best. Thank you.

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm missing the point? b:puzzled
You must've misunderstood me. I'm not made to be in a squad for bh/tw/in general and just heal someone. I can't do it. I rather watch your pixel self die than be your crutch in whatever we do.

I'm not gonna argue this point anymore. I've chose Demon for my cleric just like I chose Sage for my psychic and Demon for my veno. It's what I know will suit me best. Thank you.

At some point you're going to need help from others, and you'll have a hell of a time getting it when you're pretending to be a wiz. ijs.

RedsRose - Lost City

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm missing the point? b:puzzled
You must've misunderstood me. I'm not made to be in a squad for bh/tw/in general and just heal someone. I can't do it. I rather watch your pixel self die than be your crutch in whatever we do.

I'm not gonna argue this point anymore. I've chose Demon for my cleric just like I chose Sage for my psychic and Demon for my veno. It's what I know will suit me best. Thank you.

You missed my point and no need to be snippy because of a different opinion...However, you can do both attack and heal, it is very possible.

Otherwise, what you have described is a glorified Wizzy with more heals. Which is funny because I know MANY Clerics that have re-rolled to Wizzy for many of the reasons you state you want to become a Cleric.

Good Luck b:chuckle


Edit --> Ninja'd by Dyskrasia on the Wizard issue!!

PureFknMetal - Sanctuary

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

At some point you're going to need help from others, and you'll have a hell of a time getting it when you're pretending to be a wiz. ijs.

That may be true but that's why I'm very self reliant and won't ask for help. Maybe after I'm doing 69 cave for bh I'll bother leveling things. Till then, my veno can tank what I need so I'm not gonna bother.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm missing the point? b:puzzled
You must've misunderstood me. I'm not made to be in a squad for bh/tw/in general and just heal someone. I can't do it. I rather watch your pixel self die than be your crutch in whatever we do.

I'm not gonna argue this point anymore. I've chose Demon for my cleric just like I chose Sage for my psychic and Demon for my veno. It's what I know will suit me best. Thank you.

Delete Cleric and roll a Wizzy if that is your way of looking at it.The way I ma going to approach going demon or sage is to have one of each judge me and tell me the path to choose.I have been giving a lot of though and am leaning towards demon but I maybe better at being a sage cleric.

It would sound to me that you got your heart set on being full attack cleric as they keep a lvl revive and most bh squads don't want that.Squads may even supply uoi with some ga or scrolls.

PureFknMetal - Sanctuary

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

Delete Cleric and roll a Wizzy if that is your way of looking at it.

Get off the thread if you're gonna say make a wizzie.

PureFknMetal - Sanctuary wrote: »

Maybe after I'm doing 69 cave for bh I'll bother leveling things. Till then, my veno can tank what I need so I'm not gonna bother.

Did no one read that?


And finally. DON'T LIKE HOW I PLAN THINGS? DON'T RUN WITH ME.

Balthier - Dreamweaver

To the OP, you open a thread in the cleric section, asking about opinions on whether you should go demon or sage. People are giving you their thoughts, and suggestions about you rolling a wizard instead isn't out of place, seeing what you wish to do with your cleric.

You then tell people to shut it, and if they don't like your plans, to go away (being really bitchy about it too..).

Kindly don't open a thread if you are unable to hande a discussion. And I agree with most here, demon is usually better for an attack-minded/pk cleric. You know what would be even better for you though, since you wont be healing others at all? A wizard!

(Oh, and to Rose; don't forget to add that even though Stream has a longer channeling time than vanguard, the +phy resistance boost is only an add-on to an extremely useful heal. Where as Sage vanguard doesn't really do anything at all other than that +phy resistance boost. Just pointing it out, since it felt a little biased from you. I would take Stream over Vanguard any day of the week, and at end-game you will atleast have -30 till -42% chan, making Stream a pretty fast cast anyway (10k HP healed in 1.5 seconds anyone o.O). I am demon though, so I am biased the other way of course b:chuckle).

Decus - Dreamweaver

Balthier - Dreamweaver wrote: »

To the OP, you open a thread in the cleric section, asking about opinions on whether you should go demon or sage. People are giving you their thoughts, and suggestions about you rolling a wizard instead isn't out of place, seeing what you wish to do with your cleric.

You then tell people to shut it, and if they don't like your plans, to go away (being really bitchy about it too..).

Kindly don't open a thread if you are unable to hande a discussion. And I agree with most here, demon is usually better for an attack-minded/pk cleric. You know what would be even better for you though, since you wont be healing others at all? A wizard!

(Oh, and to Rose; don't forget to add that even though Stream has a longer channeling time than vanguard, the +phy resistance boost is only an add-on to an extremely useful heal. Where as Sage vanguard doesn't really do anything at all other than that +phy resistance boost. Just pointing it out, since it felt a little biased from you. I would take Stream over Vanguard any day of the week, and at end-game you will atleast have -30 till -42% chan, making Stream a pretty fast cast anyway (10k HP healed in 1.5 seconds anyone o.O). I am demon though, so I am biased the other way of course b:chuckle).

Fantastic advice. +1

Also, I'd take Dem SoR any day over Sage VG b:quiet

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary wrote: »

The only thing I'm liking about Sage is the buffs, I perfer Demon on everything else because I know I'm a PKr at heart, I started PK at 40 on my veno hence my saying this.

Thank you for the link, I had forgot to check ecatomb. But that did make it official, I'm definately (misspelled I think.) going demon.


And I'm gonna make sure there's a second cleric in my bh squads and what not because I'm gonna leave Revive at level 1, not getting hour buffs, and my squad heal will remain level 1 till I decide I need it or I have the extra spirit/coin to blow on them. My attacks are more important than stuff that helps other people and not me. I get a bad rep for it? I don't care, if I did, I wouldn't still be playing. ^^


Thank you guys for the info. b:thanks

While I appreciate that you are going to be honest about needing a second cleric to do the clerics job, and understand that you are just trying to level a pk character not a pve character, I still disagree with you.

Mainly because I don't see the point in anyone squading with someone like this. If you want to join a squad as a dd I'd still prefer any other class for the variability of buffs. And the "**** you" attitude doesn't help. You'd be asking for help with your BHs while at the same time offering nothing except mediocre damage in trade, where any other class would benefit the squad more and not come with the attitude.

Its not like leveling your buffs/heals/rez would hurt you or change your build. Sure it costs coin and a little bit more time, but It'd only help.

Btw, I know the cleric perspective of "I wish I could level 1 rez the idiots and level 11 rez my friends". But think of it this way. PK someone. Offer them a lvl 10/11 rez. If they're stupid enough to take it PK them again b:thanks

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Btw, I know the cleric perspective of "I wish I could level 1 rez the idiots and level 11 rez my friends". But think of it this way. PK someone. Offer them a lvl 10/11 rez. If they're stupid enough to take it PK them again b:thanks

But you don't lose xp in PK o.o
I would definately PK them again if they don't realize it by now because, they're too stupid to be in PK. Sorry to anyone who is like that, lol.
If a guard kills you, you're screwed because that means your name is colored you're gonna lose xp by towning. (Guards are like evil bosses.)

Also, thank you very much for not telling me to re-roll a wizzie.

I know it'll help, but on the other hand, I'm tired of dealing with stupid people on my veno, so I rather just wait till I really need a squad, and level the stuff. It's not like I'm gonna spend my cleric's money on anything else besides skills.

I know, I'll want GAs and rez scrolls later. I'll see about asking that from the squad if I'm gonna do something so they don't have to wait for me to leave the instance and come back.

But aswell, I'm keeping in mind, my veno can tank caves 19 through 59 without a squad. Herc can't tank a full 69 because of the debuffs. She can also tank 79 if I make sure I have a Zeal genie on at the time. <.<;

And as for when I get Demon Revive? I'm gonna charge 100k per rez so I'm getting my money back for buying a skill that helps me in no way once so ever.


To everyone else:


Honestly, if you don't like it, please don't run with my cleric (PureFknMetal) because I'm not gonna listen to you yell at me about it. I'm simply going to ask nicely for you to shut up once, then I'm gonna tell you shut up or go to town, and after that, I'm gonna leave squad because I'm sure I can find someone nicer on server to help me.

gelnd

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary wrote: »

Honestly, if you don't like it, please don't run with my cleric (PureFknMetal) because I'm not gonna listen to you yell at me about it. I'm simply going to ask nicely for you to shut up once, then I'm gonna tell you shut up or go to town, and after that, I'm gonna leave squad because I'm sure I can find someone nicer on server to help me.

Oh my goodness, what an attitude. b:chuckle You do realize cleric is a healing/support class, right? Sure, they can do some pretty nice damage... but if you're so obsessed with attacking, it's really not the char you should be making.

And let me say, I've never had people get upset with me for attacking with my cleric, so long as I keep everyone healed, buffed, etc. No one is saying that clerics can't DD, it's just a matter of priorities. If you're merrily plume-shotting away while the tank dies, you fail.

As someone who plays both barb and cleric, let me say I would go out of my way to avoid squadding with someone with your attitude. I want to know that the cleric's priorities are first of all, staying alive... and after that, saving the tank's furry butt (fishy butt, for sins ^^). If he/she can throw in some DD while getting that done, more power to 'em.

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary

gelnd wrote: »

Oh my goodness, what an attitude. b:chuckle

I was being kind. -.-;


Stop telling me be another class.
I'm going to be a Demon Veno, Sage Psy, and Demon Cleric.


The only person I seem to have any respect for on this thread is Sakubatou - Sanctuary because he hasn't told me change classes.

I'm gonna be a cleric, get over it, please. My priorities are how I set them. They're not your priorties so please don't worry about them. You don't like them then do squad with me. Is it really that hard to ask and be respected for that request?

For your information, that's the last time I'm making the request before ignoring not very helpful posts which tell me re-roll.

gelnd

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary wrote: »

I was being kind. -.-;

If I ever meet you, I'm going to get you a dictionary with the definition of "kind" highlighted. b:chuckle I don't think it's generally synonymous with "arrogant," "conceited," or, "erroneous."

Stop telling me be another class.
I'm going to be a Demon Veno, Sage Psy, and Demon Cleric.

You asked for opinions, you are getting opinions. It just happens the opinions aren't what you want to hear.

The only person I seem to have any respect for on this thread is Sakubatou - Sanctuary because he hasn't told me change classes.

Your lack of respect wounds me to the quick. How will I continue to live my life? b:cry

I'm gonna be a cleric, get over it, please. My priorities are how I set them. They're not your priorties so please don't worry about them. You don't like them then do squad with me. Is it really that hard to ask and be respected for that request?

I really don't give a wad of fecal matter what class you play or what your priorities are. I'm just trying to make a point that you're going to go through the game as a sad little cleric with the mindset you've got. Plus, it's fun to watch you QQ when people try to be helpful.

For your information, that's the last time I'm making the request before ignoring not very helpful posts which tell me re-roll.

Goody! Less QQing is always nice. b:bye

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary

gelnd wrote: »

Too much space taken up with words.

QQing is me telling you people to stop telling me reroll? Funny. And could you be a poor smart *** somewhere else? You should really be on Sanctuary Server, I could point out the dozen or so QQrs in everyday squads and the ones from PK. Because you're nothing new. ttfn ^^

gelnd

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary wrote: »

QQing is me telling you people to stop telling me reroll? Funny.

As I said before: "You asked for opinions, you're getting opinions. You just don't like the opinions you're getting." It's like if someone goes to a mechanic and asks how to fix his car with a toothpick. The mechanic is likely going to tell him it's not the tool for the job, and it's a perfectly valid piece of advice. Of course, the customer would be free to whine and **** that he was asking how to do it with a toothpick, not whether or not he should use a toothpick...

And could you be a poor smart *** somewhere else?

I'm only a smart@$$ to people that deserve it, and right now, you fit the bill. ^^

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary

WELL, it seems I'll put this on the right track.
Demon and Sage, in a sense, are both good as a Cleric.
However, if you plan on being pure attack, nothing else, go Demon. Demon Wield Thunder is amazing for PvP (Decreased Metal Resistance) and following that up with Demon Great Cyclone is amazing, too.
I don't have much to say about Sage, since I rolled Demon myself, but it also has multiple advantages as well. Example; Vanguard Spirit is a quick cast for some extra pdef, and Celestial Guardians Seal recovers some decent HP rather quickly. Plume Shot also does a bit more damage, but really, that's going to be useless against a melee class.

Everyone needs to stop arguing over how they want to play their class. EVERYONE is different. Some people are sword BM's, some go axe. Some magic classes prefer a Pataka over a Glaive. It's REALLY no big deal. Stop acting like it is.

/thread

Toxie - Dreamweaver

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary wrote: »

But you don't lose xp in PK o.o
I would definately PK them again if they don't realize it by now because, they're too stupid to be in PK. Sorry to anyone who is like that, lol.
If a guard kills you, you're screwed because that means your name is colored you're gonna lose xp by towning. (Guards are like evil bosses.)

Also, thank you very much for not telling me to re-roll a wizzie.

I know it'll help, but on the other hand, I'm tired of dealing with stupid people on my veno, so I rather just wait till I really need a squad, and level the stuff. It's not like I'm gonna spend my cleric's money on anything else besides skills.

I know, I'll want GAs and rez scrolls later. I'll see about asking that from the squad if I'm gonna do something so they don't have to wait for me to leave the instance and come back.
With all the coin you'll save from not leveling your buffs, pay for those things yourself...

But aswell, I'm keeping in mind, my veno can tank caves 19 through 59 without a squad. Herc can't tank a full 69 because of the debuffs. She can also tank 79 if I make sure I have a Zeal genie on at the time. <.<;

And as for when I get Demon Revive? I'm gonna charge 100k per rez so I'm getting my money back for buying a skill that helps me in no way once so ever.
Why bother getting it then? I don't know anyone that would PAY the cleric in their squad for a res. I would just boot you and get another cleric. Unless you're talking about randoms asking for a res, and if you're just gonna use it for that I wouldn't bother getting it.

To everyone else:


Honestly, if you don't like it, please don't run with my cleric (PureFknMetal) because I'm not gonna listen to you yell at me about it. I'm simply going to ask nicely for you to shut up once, then I'm gonna tell you shut up or go to town, and after that, I'm gonna leave squad because I'm sure I can find someone nicer on server to help me.

in red

Belkas - Lost City

And the award for biggest c.unt goes to....



the OP. b:laughb:bye

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

honestly? wait till that level till you even think of deciding. Its not gonna hurt to save up but it doesnt mean you have to buy the skills ASAP.

lv20 cleric (im sure its a little higher by now)

I feel like im watching a gradeschooler asking which college is good to go to, without experiencing wtf they want to major in assuming each college excels in a genre.