Hay troubles

Sir_Puma - Raging Tide

I will start to say that I know it helps in game economy and some make money but..

Could some higher level mobs get a small chance of also dropping hay ?

Let me explain best I can.

Not everyone is filthy rich, not everyone knows quests coming up by memory.

Around lvl 73 I think, u get a quest to gather 50 Hay. At that level, drop rate from, say, antellopes are absolutely ridicoulus. Even the mob with thge best Hay drop rate in game (Abysmal Mysteries) will take u days and days to farm the 50 needed.

Everyone knows Hay these days is freaking costy (10-15k each on my server), skills and gear are also pretty costy. If u arent a cash shopper or serious farmer of instances like TT/NIrvana and up, u are pretty much doomed and must resent on doing 1-3 things.

-Restart a new toon and redo all the mines/Orchid temple quests in a hurry to get near 30 to go farm Antelopes (what I did for 7 hours yesterday, rushing quests with a friend from spearmans to my fb on those toons to get 100 hay for my barb and her clerc's quest)

-Spend 500-750k to buy them from a player/auction, sacrificing a skill upgrade that could make u refused accees to a high lvl instance cause skills not maxed and since im already not 4-5 aps, im already cut off from a few.

-Trash the quest

So I just want people's opinions. I know PWI likes us having more then a toon, but don't some agree that after 3-4 times the whole mines area quests repetitive ? (No I wont oracle, not rich enough for that else would just buy the damn fodder, lol )

My proposed solution : Make some high lvl (like 70-75) mobs get a small % of chance to drop some. Don't make it huge, 5% or so would be nice. Would encourage farming them, get reasonable exp/drops for that level and the added surprise of "oh here's a Hay, how nice"

b:bye

krelianmage

I trashed that quest. and lost the 20 hay i had in inventory by doing so. i hate that quest.


And no1 does quests anymore. hyper + rep sale killed the purpose of it. mostly like people playing their first toon do quests for money rewards. if u have to spen money to finish a quest, trash it.

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary

When i had it I just farmed high mats, sold them and bought hay, didn`t bother killing antilopes.

Laranda - Heavens Tear

Sir_Puma - Raging Tide wrote: »

-Restart a new toon and redo all the mines/Orchid temple quests in a hurry to get near 30 to go farm Antelopes (what I did for 7 hours yesterday, rushing quests with a friend from spearmans to my fb on those toons to get 100 hay for my barb and her clerc's quest)

There are monsters below level 20 that drop hay. No need to go after pups. An easy monster for them is lv22. Not sure why you went after pups, tbh.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

Ah yes, the always controversial high-level Hay quest...

First off, trash the quest and forget about it. The reward is worth far, far less than the 50 Hay needed to complete it, so you'd be better off selling the Hay and buying Hypers + Badges with the money.

Still determined to do it?

Well, then go kill things that are your level and sell them, then go buy Hay for 10-15k. The logic of, "but I could have spent that money on skills!" is flawed logic. Just because you grind something by yourself doesn't mean it's suddenly free. They're still worth 10-15k each.

So if you grind 50 Hay and use them to complete a quest, then you've still spent 500k-750k that you could have spent on skills. The cost is exactly the same as if you'd bought the Hay from somebody else, except you probably wasted far more time and effort trying to "save" money.

Alasen - Heavens Tear

@krelianmage: speak for yourself, i do ALL my quests. Simple fact u "grind mobs" get bonus exp, drops, w/e just for doing the quests. AND i dont' have 50 friggin quests backing up my log like some morons who cant' find the one damn quest they need for a FB or something..... *cough*

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ah yes, the always controversial high-level Hay quest...

First off, trash the quest and forget about it. The reward is worth far, far less than the 50 Hay needed to complete it, so you'd be better off selling the Hay and buying Hypers + Badges with the money.

Still determined to do it?

Well, then go kill things that are your level and sell them, then go buy Hay for 10-15k. The logic of, "but I could have spent that money on skills!" is flawed logic. Just because you grind something by yourself doesn't mean it's suddenly free. They're still worth 10-15k each.

So if you grind 50 Hay and use them to complete a quest, then you've still spent 500k-750k that you could have spent on skills. The cost is exactly the same as if you'd bought the Hay from somebody else, except you probably wasted far more time and effort trying to "save" money.

Honestly your logic is kinda flawed. I get what you're saying, but your tihnking only pertains to impatient people that "GOTTA DO IT NAO!!" Grind DQ's on a higher toon and sell em for hay money... or take the timeto lvl a new one to 30, grind the hay yourself....

Even if u have to lvl another toon to 30 and keep it there, u grind the hay yourself you SAVE MONEY. It's free.... instead of spending 500-750k on 50 hay. NOT to mention the coin u can make GETTING to 30 (couple toons i've made bout half a mil on each one getting them to 30... or something like that idk). Granted I already HAD a mini veno at 30 for DQ quests, farming low mats for myself or others (faction), hay if i needed 20....... w/e. But even if i had to lvl one from scratch WHEN i got that 50 hay quest, ALL i would be wasting was a few days time...... and it's not much of a waste.... free hay and some more coin outta it.

But ya if yo're too impatient to do it yourself.... jsut trash the quest and dont' get it.

Alasen - Heavens Tear

Laranda - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There are monsters below level 20 that drop hay. No need to go after pups. An easy monster for them is lv22. Not sure why you went after pups, tbh.

Maybe cause it's 8 tiny more levels and Antelopes drop it alot more often?

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

I thoroughly agree with you, and do all my quests (even the stupid 50hay quest)

But this:

Alasen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Even if u have to lvl another toon to 30 and keep it there, u grind the hay yourself you SAVE MONEY. It's free....

Is flawed logic. That 50 hay ground out - you could have sold. Thus you've lost the money, just the same as if you had bought the hay.

CandyCorn - Raging Tide

dump the quest i got like 38+ quests i still got to do some from lvl 70..

Sir_Puma - Raging Tide

Ok got mixed opinions it's good. I do ALL my quests, I do not oracles, I do not hyper or anything. I do not buy rep. I earn all I got. All my rep is earned on all chars. Ok, u'll say if u work u can invest in the game, that's ok, it IS earned money from working. By the time I made that post, I took a lvl 19 toon I had, leveled him to 21 and went to farm Rhinodrakes around arch. 16 hays in 3 hours.. I wonder how much money I could have made on my lvl 95 bm instead b:surrender

Anyway I do get the point as well that yeah, it's expensive and farming 50 (in my case 100 for 2 chars) is a bit steep for such a low reward. Giving away something worth near 3/4 mils for a 12k or so reward just ain't fair.

Ya I love the game, yeah I do my quests. I'm actually one of those who take time to LEARN their chars, weaknesses, strenghts, how to face such and such mobs effiectivly.

Anyway, not here to bash on anyone, I appreciate all ur opinions on subject. I shall just do something then. Take a full week of my game time, farm over 1k-2k of them, feeding exp to genie to not level to keep good drop rate and make myself a millionaire with those who will buy themb:chuckle

TigerLily - Lost City

If you spend days grinding for hay at 7X to finish a quests that gives you like 30k exp...you should seriously consider to uninstall the game.

50 hay is also worth around 500k or more, so even if you grind them with a 3x char you better not waste them on a stupid quest. Better of selling them in Archo West and buy freaking oracles for the profit and gain 1-2 levels.

You only need to save up 20 hay to get 1 more pet slot That quest is actually worth doing since a pet cage is 2 gold.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Sir_Puma - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ok got mixed opinions it's good. I do ALL my quests, I do not oracles, I do not hyper or anything. I do not buy rep. I earn all I got. All my rep is earned on all chars. Ok, u'll say if u work u can invest in the game, that's ok, it IS earned money from working. By the time I made that post, I took a lvl 19 toon I had, leveled him to 21 and went to farm Rhinodrakes around arch. 16 hays in 3 hours.. I wonder how much money I could have made on my lvl 95 bm instead b:surrender

Anyway I do get the point as well that yeah, it's expensive and farming 50 (in my case 100 for 2 chars) is a bit steep for such a low reward. Giving away something worth near 3/4 mils for a 12k or so reward just ain't fair.

Ya I love the game, yeah I do my quests. I'm actually one of those who take time to LEARN their chars, weaknesses, strenghts, how to face such and such mobs effiectivly.

Anyway, not here to bash on anyone, I appreciate all ur opinions on subject. I shall just do something then. Take a full week of my game time, farm over 1k-2k of them, feeding exp to genie to not level to keep good drop rate and make myself a millionaire with those who will buy themb:chuckle

how exactly do you learn to play your char by leveling an alt and farming hay on antelopes?

so 3h, 16 hay... that's ~160k. i can make 160k in half an hour on my main, i bet you can make it in less than 1h.

i have said that a million times, time is money.
just because you farm something doesnt mean that it's free;
you loose money by not doing something more profitable.
you are a bm, you could do a tt or w/e, learn ur main class better
instead u kill low-lvl mobs... well if u enjoy it sure.

but it's not efficient time-wise, money-wise or class-learning-wise

Alasen - Heavens Tear

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I thoroughly agree with you, and do all my quests (even the stupid 50hay quest)

But this:



Is flawed logic. That 50 hay ground out - you could have sold. Thus you've lost the money, just the same as if you had bought the hay.

Explain to me how in the hell i lost money when i spend ZERO grinding them. not to mention the coin getting a toon to 30 to do it. ... ok MAYBE 1K in repairs..... if that

EDIT: Wel Thanos said it above.... but the poitn I WAS trying to get across. Some of us could give a **** about how much time we spend on something lol.... now think THAT WAY..... and look what i said above.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

Alasen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Even if u have to lvl another toon to 30 and keep it there, u grind the hay yourself you SAVE MONEY. It's free.... instead of spending 500-750k on 50 hay.

Sure, you "save money", but you also spend time, and since time can be turned into money, the logic of creating a low-level alt to "save money" doesn't really work.

A 7x generating about 200k profit per hour grinding would take about 3-4 hours to grind the funds for 50 Hay.

Or, a 3x killing about 100 Antelope Pups per hour will get 50 Hay in about 5 hours.

Either way works and the result is the same: you end up with 50 Hay, worth 500k-750k.

If you enjoy playing the low-level alt, then sure, go ahead, but the money you're "saving" is an illusion.

Sir_Puma - Raging Tide wrote: »

Anyway I do get the point as well that yeah, it's expensive and farming 50 (in my case 100 for 2 chars) is a bit steep for such a low reward. Giving away something worth near 3/4 mils for a 12k or so reward just ain't fair.

Ya I love the game, yeah I do my quests. I'm actually one of those who take time to LEARN their chars, weaknesses, strenghts, how to face such and such mobs effiectivly.

I do most of my quests too, just for the sake of doing them, but the 50 Hay quest was the one exception. I'd heard there was a quest that would require 50 Hay, so I'd been saving them for a long time, but when I finally got to it I looked at the reward and immediately trashed the quest and sold the ~40 Hay I'd been saving since forever.

Alasen - Heavens Tear

Lol wow did you read anything i said? There is no illusion. Unlike you i could care less about my o so "precious" time playing the game. It's that simple. lvl a toon to 30, u get the coins just doing THAT (almost a mil EACH on two toon i've leveled recently to 30), and on TOP of that grind the damn hay yourself and not have to spend ANY MONEY. I could give a damn if i spend 5 hours or 20 hours.... Not to mention u could be smart about it like i was... and not even DO that quest till there was a 2X. :P lol....... got 50 hay in an hour.... or so. AND have a mini veno to KEEP at 30 to do low lvl DQ's (for badges for rank 6 weapon or whatever else).... get crafting mats if i or friends need em..... who knows what else. Taking the time to lvl a "alt" to do this is definitely not a waste of time.

Btw i have to admit the reward for this is total junk compared to what you could get SELLING the hay..... but i didnt' need the money that bad, and that would mean the quest would stay in my Find log ..... forever.. I don't like having unfinished quests... I do every dang quest i get unless it's something that HAS to wait (like FB stuff that has to wait till u DO the FB).

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

Alasen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lol wow did you read anything i said?

Yup. You believe that time and money are separate things, and you value one and don't care about the other. So you worry about saving your money but don't care about wasting your time. I do get your point of view, honest.

Alasen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There is no illusion. Unlike you i could care less about my o so "precious" time playing the game. It's that simple.

You say, "there's no illusion", because you look and see nothing except what's immediately obvious. You think, "wow, I'm saving money!" because you see Hay appearing in your inventory and you don't see any money leaving your pocket. For you, it's just that simple.

Meanwhile, I'm a merchant, so I see the opportunity cost. Sure, my view isn't simple, it's somewhat complex, but looking at opportunity costs and being a bit more complex about how I view the value of things in game is kind of how I've managed to get 2,000,000,000 coins without paying and any real-life money.

I look and see that the opportunity cost of playing the low-level alt rather than the high-level main is higher than the "savings", so while you might think you're saving money, you're not. You're losing it, because you're choosing to do something that nets you less money/Hay than the option you didn't choose.

Now, don't get me wrong, that's totally fine. There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing your low-level alt if you enjoy doing so. After all, the game is intended to be a leisurely way to waste time, so it's totally fine to do whatever you enjoy doing in the game, even if it's not particularly effective or efficient.

So if you are willing to spend more time and effort for your Hay, so be it. Play the game however you like and enjoy doing so.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Alasen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Explain to me how in the hell i lost money when i spend ZERO grinding them. not to mention the coin getting a toon to 30 to do it. ... ok MAYBE 1K in repairs..... if that

You. Had. 50 hay.

50 hay is a fungible asset. It is worth 700k coin.

You used it in a quest, instead.

Thus, you spent the 50hay on the quest - which is identical to spending 700k coin on the quest.

Thus you lost 700k coin.

This is really not hard to understand, surely?


That this was a tradeoff you enjoyed making - that's fine. As I said, I made the same tradeoff.
But you do need to acknolwedge that you made it.

Balthier - Dreamweaver

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

Lengthy explanation for the slow

I envy you your patience b:surrender

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Balthier - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I envy you your patience b:surrender

i loved his analysis b:cute

Keliska - Raging Tide

>> Roll a lvl 20 joint and, smoke some Rhinos.

Antelopes are ****, proved with personal knowledge.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

I do all of my quests, and 50 hay is absolutely ridiculous. I trashed that bullcrap the instant I saw that requirement.

That is a waste of time, effort, coins, and patients of epic proportions.

Seriously. Just don't do it. I didn't, and hay was selling for 5k a pop on Sanctuary at the time when I trashed it. >_____>

Shintoh - Raging Tide

Laranda - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There are monsters below level 20 that drop hay. No need to go after pups. An easy monster for them is lv22. Not sure why you went after pups, tbh.

Actually, the turtles in the river near the City of the Lost drops hay, and they're what? Lv 5? Lv 6? Just keep grinding on thise little suckers, and you'll be set... it's still somewhat of a rare drop, tho, so expect to do some serious grinding or genie exp feeding. b:shocked

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Shintoh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Actually, the turtles in the river near the City of the Lost drops hay, and they're what? Lv 5? Lv 6? Just keep grinding on thise little suckers, and you'll be set... it's still somewhat of a rare drop, tho, so expect to do some serious grinding or genie exp feeding. b:shocked

Actually, the level 5 turtles by Lost don't, it's the ones by Broken Bridge that do, and they're level 8. And the drop rate is so low you can easily get from level 8 to level 15 before having 20 hay, let alone 50.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Actually, the level 5 turtles by Lost don't, it's the ones by Broken Bridge that do, and they're level 8. And the drop rate is so low you can easily get from level 8 to level 15 before having 20 hay, let alone 50.

I remember back when my girlfriend and I first started playing we killed those level 8 turtles for over an hour and got 0 Hay. We gave up on them.

The way we ended up getting our Hay was by hanging around outside of West Archo. The Rhinodrakes drop them, and players near the Mines are notorious about not picking up their drops, because that's usually the point in the game where people first run into the problem of their starting Inventory and Bank being full of **** they don't know what to do with.

So both of us, on two separate occasions, happened to find somebody doing their quests who was just leaving their Hay on the ground.

I've also seen people setting buy shops by the Rhinodrake fields, and I assume they probably are able to get their Hay for 2k or so from people who don't know how to use the AH, and thus don't know what it's worth.