nirvana run...

Abocanhadora - Dreamweaver
Abocanhadora - Dreamweaver Posts: 55 Arc User
edited February 2011 in Venomancer
One of my friends just frap a movie of a nirvana run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38hev4W_l9k

I know that is not easy to see what the venomancer is doing there, but bare with me please...

This is my items on the time of that run:

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=4641e00be1a654d4

Opinions, comments, suggestions about my way of playing, what is rigth, what can be done better, the use of both myriad rainbow fox form and human form, use of demon parasitic nova in the 3rd boss foxes... Feel free to comment.
Post edited by Abocanhadora - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • Abocanhadora - Dreamweaver
    Abocanhadora - Dreamweaver Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I cannot believe this, I ask for tips, help in what I believe to be the best perfect world related forum and I dont even got a reply? I know the movie doesn't show the venomancer that well but please... It's not like you cannot see what I am doing there b:surrender


    Well anyway I got this answer in game more or less:
    abo! arbiter! lazy herc!
    Also, human form myriad? And dont bother passing sparks to aps dds, they can get enough. use demon nova (have you got that?) instead, on the hf enabled bosses (just time it after the hf, or something)

    Very much apreciate for the comments, Synta, a venomancer from Dreamweaver.

    Soo now I want to hear some answers about this questions here and I would be very happy if I got some answers, even if only criticism:


    1- Should I pass chi for a 5 aps player bm? yes, no? What if the bm is a 4 aps? and remember, we are talking about a 15 seconds cooldown lending hand, demon version here...

    2-Human myriad should be used in a boss not affected by amplify damage, but what about in the others? should I also use my chi to cast it? or keep the chi and ignore casting at least the normal myriad?

    3- I do indeed have demon parasit nova, which as a lot of you knew, have a +30% damage effect with the same debuff icon as a hf. Should I use it on bosses or its not really a good use for my chi?

    I would really love some answers rigth now...Feel free to comment about other things you see that are going wrong/rigth on that nirvana run.

    (And for the ones thinking I am just bumping up a topic, you are quite rigth)
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    1) Don't need the attitude from someone asking for help when they can figure things out on their own easy enough.

    2) Don't pass chi to 4 or 5 aps, they're capable of Lv3 perma-sparking at 4.

    3) Don't waste MP on Myriad because it's low chance and short duration.

    4) I'm not Demon veno, can't you figure out if Nova is worth it?
  • CleaMuner - Raging Tide
    CleaMuner - Raging Tide Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    don't pass chi they have plenty

    use myriad human and fox if you have it, that other guy is an idiot. when myriad hits for 0 phys def which seems to be about 1/3 casts for me it is definitely worth it. try to cast myriad on top of heavens flame, if it hits on that the bosses die incredibly fast.

    im sage so not sure how good demon nova is or how easily demon veno gets chi, if you have the extra chi i would suggest using your nova for the dmg increase.
  • Mauntille - Heavens Tear
    Mauntille - Heavens Tear Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Didn't see the post the first time through...

    I like to use D. Crush Vigor before every D. Amp Damage. Yes, it takes slightly longer, but if you aren't doing much in fox and have a decent channel speed, it's well worth it.

    D. Vigor > D. Amp > Fox Myriad (if there are no mobs in range that you don't want to aggro) > D. Wallop > Human Form > Red Spark > Chi Pot > D. Nova

    If you can, I'd recommend vent/teamspeak/etc so that you can coordinate your Nova with the BMs' HF. Neither will overwrite the other, but you want to make sure that the BM casts theirs after yours wears off or if yours doesn't proc.

    Whether it's worth it is a little dependent on the squad. If you have BMs that will coordinate with you (and generally fewer of them, more than 3 rotating and you really don't need it).

    I also tend to spark people right after they cast HF. They tend to like the quick boost in chi, but really don't need it any other time.

    Human myriad should be partially dependent on if you have level 10 or level 11 Ironwood. If you have level 10, save your chi and mp. If you have level 11, I find it to be useful. The chi cost isn't that bad on the skill; it's usually the mp that gets you, but since HY is cheap and D. Grace is spammable, you shouldn't have too much of an issue with mp.

    One other note: I like to stay a little closer to the bosses that run around a bit so that the melee fisters don't have to run as much. Same concept as the bishop boss in FF.
  • SashaGray - Heavens Tear
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    put your herc away, the damage it does is insignificant, and it runs when sealed, if agro goes to it, it negatively impacts the APSers

    dont use chi pots, they cut into your profit, which is why you're there, put cloud eruption, extreme poison, and frenzy on your genie, keep as many debuffs up as you can
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Abocanhadora - Dreamweaver
    Abocanhadora - Dreamweaver Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Ahhhh very very nice and important replies here... lets see one at a time...
    1) Don't need the attitude from someone asking for help when they can figure things out on their own easy enough.

    2) Don't pass chi to 4 or 5 aps, they're capable of Lv3 perma-sparking at 4.

    3) Don't waste MP on Myriad because it's low chance and short duration.

    4) I'm not Demon veno, can't you figure out if Nova is worth it?

    Well you are rigth about the attitude but really, when you need help and nobody is there to help you, you feel a little raged. I probably overdid it but at least this way I got some answers. About 2, you are rigth and it kind of shows in the movie also. About your 3) I dont consider myriad a waste of mana... its a little random and of course if there is a cleric constantly overunning your debuffs with cleric seals then yes, its a waste, but otherwise... not really.

    About 4... no I cannot and I still am not that sure myself.
    don't pass chi they have plenty

    use myriad human and fox if you have it, that other guy is an idiot. when myriad hits for 0 phys def which seems to be about 1/3 casts for me it is definitely worth it. try to cast myriad on top of heavens flame, if it hits on that the bosses die incredibly fast.

    im sage so not sure how good demon nova is or how easily demon veno gets chi, if you have the extra chi i would suggest using your nova for the dmg increase.

    Everything said here seems to me like a good suggestion. I have been trying this in a nirvana and I can at the very least say, the +30% that comes from the demon parasit effect is good... ESPECIALLY in a squad with 1 bm only, since its possible to coordinate damn well without overunning a bm hf.
    I like to use D. Crush Vigor before every D. Amp Damage. Yes, it takes slightly longer, but if you aren't doing much in fox and have a decent channel speed, it's well worth it.

    If I understand this well, the ideia is using the crush vigor, then amplify damage which will overrun the crush vigor and then myriad fox form... and by doing this I dont have to spend time waiting for fox form to cooldown. Definately DEFINATELY interesting, its not that big of a diference in overall damage but it definately helps. The thing is, I dont even leveled crush vigor but after that ideia I will definately try it.
    Human myriad should be partially dependent on if you have level 10 or level 11 Ironwood.


    All my skills are demon except for lucky scarab (gotta love how I have been able to get demon parasitc nova and summer sprint but not a easier to find like lucky scarab).
    One other note: I like to stay a little closer to the bosses that run around a bit so that the melee fisters don't have to run as much. Same concept as the bishop boss in FF.

    you are rigth there yet again, gonna change that also.
    put your herc away, the damage it does is insignificant, and it runs when sealed, if agro goes to it, it negatively impacts the APSers

    I dont think my pet can steal agro from any major DD player in my nirvana runs squads usually... But I do agree, in the room with the bosses that spawn fire on the ground, the herc dont really need to be attacking. It disturbs the vision of the other players around


    I think thats pretty much it, if anyone wants to post more comments, even a "you are a noob delete char" go ahead
  • LittlePony - Dreamweaver
    LittlePony - Dreamweaver Posts: 144 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I like to do nirvana with you and youre not a noob :p
    I dont think my pet can steal agro from any major DD player in my nirvana runs squads usually...
    He do it sometimes when agro resets after seal
    The trouble with real life is that there is no danger music.
  • Mauntille - Heavens Tear
    Mauntille - Heavens Tear Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Abocanhadora - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    AhEverything said here seems to me like a good suggestion. I have been trying this in a nirvana and I can at the very least say, the +30% that comes from the demon parasit effect is good... ESPECIALLY in a squad with 1 bm only, since its possible to coordinate damn well without overunning a bm hf.

    The other thing to keep in mind about this is whether or not the BM(s) will be using HF at all. Ideally they will, but some of them get so caught up in their 5APS that they don't. :/
    Abocanhadora - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    If I understand this well, the ideia is using the crush vigor, then amplify damage which will overrun the crush vigor and then myriad fox form... and by doing this I dont have to spend time waiting for fox form to cooldown. Definately DEFINATELY interesting, its not that big of a diference in overall damage but it definately helps. The thing is, I dont even leveled crush vigor but after that ideia I will definately try it.

    There are only two levels of Crush Vigor: level one and demon/sage. Demon is well worth it and the books tend to be on the cheap side.
    Abocanhadora - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I dont think my pet can steal agro from any major DD player in my nirvana runs squads usually... But I do agree, in the room with the bosses that spawn fire on the ground, the herc dont really need to be attacking. It disturbs the vision of the other players around

    It isn't a question of if the pet can steal aggro. It's the random aggro factor. If your pet gets sealed (flees in terror) and then the random aggro goes to it, the boss is going to move. It boils down to luck - whether the boss will target your pet or not. I tend to keep the herc out, but random aggro very very rarely goes to my pet. YMMV. /shrug

    About chi pots - I make my own, so they're effectively free, except for the loss of profit of selling what I make. But in comparison, it's not enough of a cost for me to care about. Cloud Eruption would be a better alternative, but I don't have space for it on the genie I use for Nirvana yet.
  • Synta - Dreamweaver
    Synta - Dreamweaver Posts: 231 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Hey Abo b:bye
    Yeah I'm the only person I've ever seen on my server that uses Crush Vigor -> amp, but the chi bonus is really sweet!
    Make sure you time nova, just after BM HF is nice as debuffs people throw on for the HF may still be on the boss.
    Cloud eruption is useful for keeping chi lvls up
    I also have Mire on my nirvana genie. Not at all useful to me (apart from pet damage), but increases the damage of the aps DDers, which is where most of the damage comes from anyway!
    Myriads are definitely worth it, despite the massive mp cost.
    Also Abo, I thought I was the only one fail enough to have things like demon nova yet not lucky... And lucky is my most used skill too!

    As you can see, I don't have much to add to what I said before, but I didn't see much awfully wrong!
    Ask about pets on seal bosses, some squads don't mind it, others hate it
    b:pleasedb:pleasedb:pleased
  • SashaGray - Heavens Tear
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    id say make a seperate genie for nirvana, the only skills that ive found usefull are

    tangling mire (useful on all bosses)
    frenzy (not as useful for veno)
    extreme poison (not useful on amp - immune bosses, the ones you cant amp damage or HF)
    cloud eruption - triple spark + 2 spark skill
    holy path - just for tyrant, and chest running at last boss
    earthquake - for black/white spawning boss
    tree of protection (almost useless as a veno, pretty useless for everyone else too)

    a veno shouldnt need tree of protection, earthquake ( if you arent APS you kill the spawns ) or or frenzy, which leaves 4 skills that will fit easily on even the most fail genie.

    and holy path is only marginally useful, since you're pretty fast anyway
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Synta - Dreamweaver
    Synta - Dreamweaver Posts: 231 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Nice Nirvy genie could include:
    Mire
    EP
    Cloud Eruption
    Holy Path
    Absolute Domain

    Not sure about earthquake for the racist boss - since it's an aoe & you dont wanna be hitting the whites b:shocked
    b:pleasedb:pleasedb:pleased
  • SashaGray - Heavens Tear
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    the black ones have much lower HP than the white ones, EQ will kill the black ones, and just push the white ones away. even if everyone drops EQ at the same time, the whites live through it. AD is more something the cleric should have on their genie, since they are focusing on keeping party alive.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Synta - Dreamweaver
    Synta - Dreamweaver Posts: 231 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    the black ones have much lower HP than the white ones, EQ will kill the black ones, and just push the white ones away. even if everyone drops EQ at the same time, the whites live through it.

    I hadn't considered that, and you're probably right, though I guess it would depend on your genie!
    b:pleasedb:pleasedb:pleased
  • Abocanhadora - Dreamweaver
    Abocanhadora - Dreamweaver Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Sorry that I take soo many time to actually answered...

    Well I now have demon crush vigor and I can only say oh boy, why I didn't thinked in it before... the 50% chance of a free spark is incredible. Haven't find the space to use in TW yet however...

    About demon parasit nova and the 30% more damage effect, its still sweet thing and with crush vigor I can pretty much have chi to cast it without a lot of problems (of course with spam or cloud eruption also)

    The myriads there is definately also a good use for that as long as nobody else overuns your 0 phs/0 magic debufs.
  • LenieClarke - Heavens Tear
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,275 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Abocanhadora - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Well I now have demon crush vigor and I can only say oh boy, why I didn't thinked in it before... the 50% chance of a free spark is incredible, the fact that I can summon and keep the curse on in any boss in nirvana where amplify don't connect makes it even better.

    okay, i'm very far from level 100 and might never see nirvana, but...

    crush vigor's curse makes the target lose chi when it's hit. nirvana bosses have chi to lose?! at what point in the game will i start encountering mobs with chi? i've not bothered getting crush vigor because it's not a prerequisite for any other skill and i never PvP; have i been losing out on something?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.
  • Mauntille - Heavens Tear
    Mauntille - Heavens Tear Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    okay, i'm very far from level 100 and might never see nirvana, but...

    crush vigor's curse makes the target lose chi when it's hit. nirvana bosses have chi to lose?! at what point in the game will i start encountering mobs with chi? i've not bothered getting crush vigor because it's not a prerequisite for any other skill and i never PvP; have i been losing out on something?

    Mobs don't have chi. Demon Vigor is only used for the free spark in pve.

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