Deicides versus Hitman Legend
Firefeng - Dreamweaver
Posts: 421 Arc User
I'm stuck. I have a Lunar Glade Insignia - Weapon burning away in my bank. I've also been trying to sell a badge of bravery for 4-5M on Dreamweaver with no luck, with people PMing me asking to buy for 2M, which is insane to me...
It occurs to me that if I sold LG Weapon token, I could afford all the badges of bravery + some, and I have 220k rep already, so I'm wondering if it's worth it to just get the daggers and soldier on with those until Nirvana daggers.
Deicide build at 100 with gear I have waiting: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=2bf4832c28084f3a
Hitman Legend build with the same gear:http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=718638943e13e03c
Is Hitman not worth it without tome/nirvy pants?
It occurs to me that if I sold LG Weapon token, I could afford all the badges of bravery + some, and I have 220k rep already, so I'm wondering if it's worth it to just get the daggers and soldier on with those until Nirvana daggers.
Deicide build at 100 with gear I have waiting: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=2bf4832c28084f3a
Hitman Legend build with the same gear:http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=718638943e13e03c
Is Hitman not worth it without tome/nirvy pants?
Post edited by Firefeng - Dreamweaver on
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Comments
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Errrr go Nirvana daggers/or rank8????0
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If you are getting Nirvana anyways, getting sage daggers will be quite a waste. You might as well wait a bit and use claw for farming til 100.0
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Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »If you are getting Nirvana anyways, getting sage daggers will be quite a waste. You might as well wait a bit and use claw for farming til 100.
I wouldn't say they'd be a waste, but after seeing how annoying several of the badges are to get (Badge of Wisdom, primarily), I said **** it and opted for instant gratification.
My Deicides came out 2 socket. Now I just need 5 levels...0 -
Hitmans > Decides
Hitmans are actually -0.05 int, the calculator is wrong and says -0.1 you can correct it manually though. Don't forget about Dagger Devotion. At 99 you get 90% extra dagger damage with Sage, and 75% with Demon.
I've messed around comparing Hitmans to Decides before, and every time Hitman wins (with the same shards/refines 2 garnet gems and +5) even though decides gives extra APS.
I was having second thoughts before I made mine, and I hesitated because of stuff some people said. But afterwards I'm so glad I did it. AND I got them before this Badge of Bravery in packs **** lol. I paid a hell of alot more than they would cost you now. Still, I love them and it was totally worth it.
High APS is great, but you still need the DPH to back it up. You do more DPS hitting slower and harder with Hitmans than you do faster with Decides.0 -
Well obviously they are better than Lunar claws, but when he hits 100, they go to waste, where as he can resell his claws.0
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Firefeng - Dreamweaver wrote: »I'm stuck. I have a Lunar Glade Insignia - Weapon burning away in my bank. I've also been trying to sell a badge of bravery for 4-5M on Dreamweaver with no luck, with people PMing me asking to buy for 2M, which is insane to me...
It occurs to me that if I sold LG Weapon token, I could afford all the badges of bravery + some, and I have 220k rep already, so I'm wondering if it's worth it to just get the daggers and soldier on with those until Nirvana daggers.
Deicide build at 100 with gear I have waiting: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=2bf4832c28084f3a
Hitman Legend build with the same gear:http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=718638943e13e03c
Is Hitman not worth it without tome/nirvy pants?
Hitman is obviously better for a sin than Deicide but its still a waste of coins. At 100+ you will most likely try to get Nirvana Daggers anyway or you will use Rank8 til you have all Raptures. It will suck having a 50-80 mil weapon you cant even re-sell in your inventory. The badges for Sage weapons are really costly. Going from lvl 90-100 in Frost only takes a few weeks anyway - sins gets a lot of Frost invites lol.
I would honestly just use a 2 socket Hook and Thorn thats decently refined til lvl 100. You're gonna steal agro with that **** anyway. You can use the Decides to DPs om bosses and switch to H&T for skills, im guessing you're gonna reach 3.33 or something like that with CV-claws, to lazy look at pwcalc.0 -
Crypsis - Lost City wrote: »I would honestly just use a 2 socket Hook and Thorn thats decently refined til lvl 100. You're gonna steal agro with that **** anyway. You can use the Decides to DPs om bosses and switch to H&T for skills, im guessing you're gonna reach 3.33 or something like that with CV-claws, to lazy look at pwcalc.
My Hook and Thorns are Satan Incarnate and refuse to refine past +5, but they do have two perfect garnets in them. Assuming comparable refine/shards on the Deicides, H&T actually appears to slightly out-DPS Deicides (5-7.5k p.atk @ 3.33 aps for Deicides, 8.6-10.8k p.atk @ 2.5 aps for H&T). Deicides attack 20% faster, but H&T deals 40%+ more damage. It's not like I need faster APS to stay perma-sparked, given sin's chi skills, so it looks like I'm just holding onto Deicides for the squads that nitpick over APS instead of actual DPS, for now.
I'm already main tank on bosses for just about anything I do save for the occasions when we have 99/100 Sins/BMs with higher APS than me. Helpful info for Sins that can't afford Deicides, though...they should save their money for LG cape/99 gold if they're forced to choose.0 -
Firefeng - Dreamweaver wrote: »I wouldn't say they'd be a waste, but after seeing how annoying several of the badges are to get (Badge of Wisdom, primarily), I said **** it and opted for instant gratification.
My Deicides came out 2 socket. Now I just need 5 levels...
wisdom is one of easiest badges to get, wtf, its jsut 5 copper orders each or 3 silver or 1 gold
its the bravery that drive the cost up along with coa ones str/courage0 -
im trying to fin a new sever my pries are outrageous 925k-1m each gold wing throphy LG goes for +10vit stone 27m-32.5m it took me a feew weeks but on my server i hev TT matts and everything on a new server id get baerly and help or should i just stick on myne0
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Hitman only has -0,05interval
if you get 5aps with deicides ok...are you prepared for aggro?i am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss0 -
LOL A sin is aggro? Ijs... don't need to prepare for it when we been living it since level 890
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Hitmans out DPS R8 daggers with the same shards/refines and some -int gear. ijs.
Call it a waste if you want, but I do far more damage than I would with Decides. Which cost 55-70mil. And with the price of Braveries having tanked you can get Hitmans for alot less than you could before. I have friends getting them now because of that.
I take aggro all the time, and I tank things well enough to survive for the most part.
Hook and Thorn don't stand a chance against Hitmans, even with max shards and +5 on the Hook and Thorns. You cannot compare the two.
And why would you switch to claws? Someone explain to me how doing less damage in a second is better just because you hit faster. You can't possibly be that desperate for more chi.
Even at 100-150mil, if you can afford Hitman's Legend I'd say go for it.0 -
LeiMai - Raging Tide wrote: »Hitmans out DPS R8 daggers with the same shards/refines and some -int gear. ijs.
That's only true if you assume that both setups have the R8 armor. If not, then you're comparing the following:
Hitman Legend:
G13
Interval -0.05
Maximum Physical Attack +284
Ocean Supreme Dagger:
G14
Interval -0.05
Maximum Physical Attack +370
Crit +4%
As you can see, Ocean Supreme Dagger comes out superior. Not to mention that the R8 armor has other good stats as well.Hook and Thorn don't stand a chance against Hitmans, even with max shards and +5 on the Hook and Thorns. You cannot compare the two.
Of course not, it's a ridiculous comparison, as Hitman Legends are obviously superior.And why would you switch to claws? Someone explain to me how doing less damage in a second is better just because you hit faster. You can't possibly be that desperate for more chi.
Probably has something to do with reaching permaspark. That makes it not only easier to get squads, since you're 5 aps, but it also makes playing the character easier as you only have to spark and attack, which you can put on a macro easily. So the difference is that you look like a really good candidate for a squad and you don't have to play your character.
There are two reasons why people would prefer the R8 weapon:
1. It's a stepping stone to easier 5 aps
2. It's easy to getI am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Ocean's Supreme Daggers don't have interval...0
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LeiMai - Raging Tide wrote: »Ocean's Supreme Daggers don't have interval...
Um, did you even read the post? I said that Rank 8 armor does. If you count that extra -0.05 as a mod on the R8 weapon, it's better. That is, if you compare R6 armor and Hitman Legend against R8 armor and R8 dagger, Hitman Legend loses. And that's the fairest comparison you can get.
Comparing Hitman Legend and R8 weapon as they are is silly, since they have different pre-requisites. Using R8 armor with Hitman Legend gives Hitman Legend an edge that it doesn't naturally have.
What I'm saying, is that if you already have the 200,000 reputation and level 100, why would you get Hitman Legend? As far as I can see, the best advantages of Hitman Legend over other weapons are the lower level requirement and 2 sockets, which means that pre-100, it's vastly superior to anything else. At 100, it's still a good weapon, but not amazing.
Personally, I bought enough rep for Rank 6 with the rep sale. Even before that, I was considering Hitman Legend as a prospective weapon simply because it came with the pre-requisite of Rank 6. Rank 6 armor has defenses that are comparable to TT99. So Hitman Legend would come with the additional bonus of having a great armor. Similarly, Rank 8 comes with a really cheap -0.05, and a decent weapon as well. In fact, if you count the -0.05 to the Rank 8's advantage, then it places among the best weapons for endgame.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Sorry, i didn't realize you couldn't wear the R8 chest with the Hitman's Legend daggers. My bad.0
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LeiMai - Raging Tide wrote: »Sorry, i didn't realize you couldn't wear the R8 chest with the Hitman's Legend daggers. My bad.
Really now...? I'd expect a bit better of an attitude when I wasn't even taking a side at all.
Obviously, if you had Hitman Legend before the rep sale and bought Rank 8, it's the better option. If have Rank 8 already, getting Hitman Legend isn't the best option you have. If you have neither, then Rank 8 is the better option of the two.
Basically, if you have to choose either Rank 8 or Hitman Legend, Rank 8 wins, as the combined mods of the armor and the weapon are better than Rank 6 and Hitman Legend. If you already have Hitman Legend, getting Rank 8 is a valid option, as it's one of the cheaper -intervals you can get. If you already have Rank 8, getting Hitman Legend is a bit silly, as you'd have better options, such as Barrier Thorn: Nirvana or second cast Nirvana.
Also, you cannot really just compare the stats and say which one is better. Rank 8 shines to some people because it's easier to get than Hitman Legend. On the other hand, to some people Hitman Legend is better because you can get it 10 levels earlier and you can actually farm most of it.
Rank 8 also has the option of going with claws for an easy 5 aps.
Just like Rank 8 inherently comes with the armor, Hitman Legend comes with Rank 6 armor. Since I've personally gone through the process, I have no doubt that there are people to whom Hitman Legend was a choice because of the Rank 6 armor that comes as a pre-requisite. Similarly, Rank 8 weapon itself might be ****, but if you consider the Rank 8 armor, it's actually a good endgame weapon.
Personally, I'd rank the endgame weapons in the following order:
Barrier Thorn: Nirvana > Dark Death Thorn > Ocean Supreme Dagger > Hitman Legend
If all of the setups had the same armors (e.g. R8 on all), then I'd say:
Barrier Thorn: Nirvana > Dark Death Thorn > Hitman Legend > Ocean Supreme Dagger
If you were to take costs into account, then I'd say the following:
Ocean Supreme Dagger > Hitman Legend > Barrier Thorn: Nirvana > Dark Death Thorn
However yes, I am of the opinion that with the rep sale and Rank 8 being cheap as heck, Hitman Legend has risen up to be a proper endgame weapon, as it can now reach 5 aps without costing extreme amounts. Previously, there were people who were of the opinion that Hitman Legend was **** because you needed Rank 8 to get 5 aps with it, but now that argument has crumbled down, as the most expensive -interval item is Barrier Thorn: Nirvana, followed by Pan Gu Creator and finally Shadow Ashura Greaves.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
b:surrender Don't go claws, I restat so I could say 5aps sin for nirvana.. but there's no benefit... can't pvp, waste of my sage dagger mastery, I outdd myself with 2.5aps r8 dags compared to 5aps lunar claws.. but such is the stupidity of people ingame they don't understand... so i r trick dem with fake 5aps >:D[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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StretchIt - Harshlands wrote: »b:surrender Don't go claws, I restat so I could say 5aps sin for nirvana.. but there's no benefit... can't pvp, waste of my sage dagger mastery, I outdd myself with 2.5aps r8 dags compared to 5aps lunar claws.. but such is the stupidity of people ingame they don't understand... so i r trick dem with fake 5aps >:D
Yeah. Gonna use Deicides on bosses until I get every Sign I need but bravery, then sell or trade for a sign of bravery. I was dumb and didn't research how to get some of the badges and thought it would be harder than it was.0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
Personally, I'd rank the endgame weapons in the following order:
Barrier Thorn: Nirvana > Dark Death Thorn > Ocean Supreme Dagger > Hitman Legend
If we are talking endgame, then I would include tome, and there's no reason why G15 dags will be behind G13. There are quite a few pairs of G15 dags with interval and zerk on my server, and those vastly out DPS G13 dags.StretchIt - Harshlands wrote: »b:surrender Don't go claws, I restat so I could say 5aps sin for nirvana.. but there's no benefit... can't pvp, waste of my sage dagger mastery, I outdd myself with 2.5aps r8 dags compared to 5aps lunar claws.. but such is the stupidity of people ingame they don't understand... so i r trick dem with fake 5aps >:D
I call bullsht. I restated HA for farming, but it turned out to be ok for PvP. As for out DPS claws at 5 APS with dags at 2.5, it depends on the build. If you are min STR claws then it's quite possible.
Sage daggers are not a bad pair, but lack of savage value compare to the claws make them an inferior choice, since OP is already going for Nirvana.0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »If we are talking endgame, then I would include tome, and there's no reason why G15 dags will be behind G13. There are quite a few pairs of G15 dags with interval and zerk on my server, and those vastly out DPS G13 dags.
But that was kinda my point of ranking Dark Death Thorn below Barrier Thorn: Nirvana. You have to be extremely lucky to get the -0.05 interval and God of Frenzy.
With Rank 8 being cheap as dirt, Barrier Thorn: Nirvana shines even better as you can achieve 5 aps without Lionheart Ornaments, which means you can use a Puzzle Cube Badge and a Warsong Belt, which would provide massive defenses and more life.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Well, PvE wise, you don't really need the def from event ornaments, and even if just G15 with only interval add and 3% crit is much better at 5 APS than G13. Normal zerk with one interval isn't too hard to get. GoF... yeah... that's a different story. I have yet to get it on axes in the past 24 rolls b:cry.
PvP wise, even if both players use event ornaments. 2.86 APS with zerk (and higher refine rate) is still much better than 3.33 APS without.0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »I call bullsht. I restated HA for farming, but it turned out to be ok for PvP. As for out DPS claws at 5 APS with dags at 2.5, it depends on the build. If you are min STR claws then it's quite possible.
Sage daggers are not a bad pair, but lack of savage value compare to the claws make them an inferior choice, since OP is already going for Nirvana.
You do fine in PVP because your Nirvana HA gear actually gave you the defense and hp needed for fists sir >_> Or maybe I'm just not used to the build, seemed like I managed better with my old pure build b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »That's only true if you assume that both setups have the R8 armor. If not, then you're comparing the following:
Hitman Legend:
G13
Interval -0.05
Maximum Physical Attack +284
Ocean Supreme Dagger:
G14
Interval -0.05
Maximum Physical Attack +370
Crit +4%LeiMai - Raging Tide wrote: »Ocean's Supreme Daggers don't have interval...Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »Um, did you even read the post? I said that Rank 8 armor does. If you count that extra -0.05 as a mod on the R8 weapon, it's better. That is, if you compare R6 armor and Hitman Legend against R8 armor and R8 dagger, Hitman Legend loses. And that's the fairest comparison you can get.
Scratches head maybe its the way you worded it but um sounded like you said the R8 daggers have an int bonus b:bye0 -
HamachiKama - Raging Tide wrote: »Scratches head maybe its the way you worded it but um sounded like you said the R8 daggers have an int bonus b:bye
In the quote of me, I clearly wrote the following:That's only true if you assume that both setups have the R8 armor. If not, then you're comparing the following:
After all, it's silly to assume that by default, you have both Hitman Legend and Rank 8.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »After all, it's silly to assume that by default, you have both Hitman Legend and Rank 8.
No, it's silly to assume that someone who could afford to make Hitman Legend did so at the cost of not buying rep for rank 8 during a month-long period when doing so was cheaper than Hitman Legend daggers.
Here in the real world, we have these things called "controls" and "variables" when one is testing something. We don't stuff a mishmash of random **** together and screech, "Eureka, my vacuum cleaner is faster than a Lamborghini so long as it's got a rocket attached to it, which must mean we should all be driving vacuums!"0 -
StretchIt - Harshlands wrote: »You do fine in PVP because your Nirvana HA gear actually gave you the defense and hp needed for fists sir >_> Or maybe I'm just not used to the build, seemed like I managed better with my old pure build b:chuckle
I should start rat you out on your fake 5 APS b:scorn.0 -
Firefeng - Dreamweaver wrote: »No, it's silly to assume that someone who could afford to make Hitman Legend did so at the cost of not buying rep for rank 8 during a month-long period when doing so was cheaper than Hitman Legend daggers.
That is the situation right now, but before the rep sale, Hitman Legend was much, much cheaper.
My point is that if you had to choose between Rank 8 or Hitman Legend, anyone sane would obviously pick Rank 8. The only situation where you'd have both Hitman Legend and Rank 8 is if you had Hitman Legend before the rep sale.
Also, just because someone has Hitman Legend, you cannot by default assume that they also have Rank 8, whereas you can assume that anyone who has Ocean Supreme Dagger also has Ocean Supreme Armor.
Right now, if a person had to choose between Rank 8 and Hitman Legend, they'd obviously choose Rank 8, because the combination of the armor and the weapon is basically a buffed version of Hitman Legend, not to mention that it's one of the cheaper -intervals you can get now.Here in the real world, we have these things called "controls" and "variables" when one is testing something. We don't stuff a mishmash of random **** together and screech, "Eureka, my vacuum cleaner is faster than a Lamborghini so long as it's got a rocket attached to it, which must mean we should all be driving vacuums!"
Um... I never claimed that Ocean Supreme Dagger is always superior to Hitman Legend.
Quite frankly, if you look at only the weapon, Ocean Supreme Dagger is pretty much ****. The only reason anyone uses it is because in combination with the armor, it's one of the better endgame choices, along with being the cheapest and easiest-to-acquire option by far.
This discussion is starting to seem like the Sage/Demon discussions, where people just go "5aps > sage".I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
hmm.. I never really looked into it but... isn't Rank 6 daggers like 100-200million or something like that w/ all those high priced badges? Better off using that money to guaranteed to have half your nirvana daggers already or to merchant with. Just Look at all those sins w/ r.6 daggers before they got their Nv Daggers. They no longer use it, look at it, & ouch, can't even sell it unless you want to npc it. That's just 100-200m coins worth of a weapon being useful for only a few months until you decide you want a better dagger. That's a lot of coins to re-farm, Ijs.0
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rank8 dagger is ok to pk with if you don't want spend to much i guess...
i got hitman +11 and and 5 aps with rank8 top and only time i didn't tank nirvana or tt was when a Zerk dagger user 5 aps was in team...rest of time..no matter what bm sin fist dagger was..i was tanking all the way...
if u want to pk u need daggers...fist is a joke really...are so many skills that sin use no matter what ppl say sin isnt just /return normal hit...
and best dagger would be a zerk dagger...rank9 or nirvana...rank9 if u are 23hours/day in west :Db:laugh0
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