too tough
Azezoc - Archosaur
Posts: 7 Arc User
I started this game a month ago and i jst have a weird feeling about it. is itme or is the dungeons here too tough for the lvl they are actually given to?
just asking this after playing because every boss quest that i get seems way way too hard for the level its given. For instance... few days ago i got this Jewelscalen. i tried to round up a similar level full team where everone had this quest. and w0w the wyrm jst one shotted every single player in the party in jst 1 hit aoe. so i asked a lvl 75 barb to help. he as well went down in the glory of battlefield and everyone left. it is at last that a lvl 90 barb helped when i suceeded. so my question is jst ... if the boss is simply not meant to be done by the lvl player its given to why give it at all at such low lvl? same thing with the dungeon instances. very very hard with similiar lvl peeps. worst of all the rewards arnt worth the effort as well.
just asking this after playing because every boss quest that i get seems way way too hard for the level its given. For instance... few days ago i got this Jewelscalen. i tried to round up a similar level full team where everone had this quest. and w0w the wyrm jst one shotted every single player in the party in jst 1 hit aoe. so i asked a lvl 75 barb to help. he as well went down in the glory of battlefield and everyone left. it is at last that a lvl 90 barb helped when i suceeded. so my question is jst ... if the boss is simply not meant to be done by the lvl player its given to why give it at all at such low lvl? same thing with the dungeon instances. very very hard with similiar lvl peeps. worst of all the rewards arnt worth the effort as well.
Post edited by Azezoc - Archosaur on
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Comments
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It's not too hard, just players don't know how to play their class most efficiently.0
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I always assumed that the instances were made difficult so that higher level players would be more pushed into a helping role. The fact that they got reputation from the tabs for the at-level player sort of reinforced that to me. However, thinking about it, I realized that many of the instances haven't been changed much at all since this game's release. How, then, did the first rounds of players finish their instances?
I believe that the answer is they tried each level as they went, and when they finally passed the benchmark, and beat the instance, it meant so much more to them. Now, anyone can call on a couple of level 100+ characters to come and finish any instance in less than 30 minutes.
My answer to your questions, then, would be that the instances and boss quests were always intended to be done by higher level characters. That is, in my opinion, the best explanation you will probably get.
And sorry about the mini-rant. b:mischievous0 -
Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »It's not too hard, just players don't know how to play their class most efficiently.
u seena buncha lvl 50s take down jewel? lol[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
when life gives you lemons
put them in a sack and beat your wife
with them b:victory0 -
@Ninja_Dagger in the old days, yes.
@KrittyKat yeah that was always my asumption as well, however, the game recent speed up in game changes should have made the devs realize that the old motives 2 do FB's and Bosses are no longer valid.
FB's generally gave rep and exp, now hypers and rep sales do that.
Bosses, euhm just 2 help out, but with the current cash shop orientated PWI, the helpfullness of players has decreased, ALOT!
This means, time for change....let bosses drop gears (Usefull ones, not 3* npc ****)
Introduce new collection quests where Rank gear can be matched with alternative gears. Make higher end bosses drop gems and sockets stones.
Increase the amount of options 2 obtain mysterious chips.
Well i could go on for about an hour, on how you could reformat the game's mechanics 2 a solid F2P game. Contact me if you want a more precise list on how I would reformat the game, instead of just adding useless new cash ****.b:victory Once you discover life is meaningless, you will see my point of view!! b:victory
Skills determine a good player, not a creditcard.b:flower0 -
Most of the instances can be done with a full squad of toons around the level of the instance. Think about what the first people on the server did... waited till 60 to run their fb39? lol no. It takes alot longer, and takes more preparation, but it can be done. Anyways if it were easy, how much fun would that be b:chuckle0
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A balanced full squad definitely. It even helps if they're not utterly clueless when it comes to what the boss has for special attacks. Also Jewelscalen is particularly nasty for the quest level.Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »Most of the instances can be done with a full squad of toons around the level of the instance.0 -
Most outside quest bosses arnt realy worth doing. The stash box has equal or better items than the quest reward.
Having said that Jewels is a nice fight and relies upon 2 factors . A Barb with decent HP and healers who can purify . So yes it is possible to do Jewels with a group without a high lvl's just make sure to have 2, or better still 3 healers and pury . Any others in the group need to be ranged or stay back. Its not his attacks alone that kills the barb its his debuff which needs to be removed ASAP.
There is a bit more involved like keeping one healer outside his AE range, but thats the learning curve i think is best learnt by trying and dying if thats what it takes.
Learn to fight Jewels and you will learn the tactic for boss's you will get later on e.g Krimson is very similar but imho requires better group work .0 -
I always assumed that the instances were made difficult so that higher level players would be more pushed into a helping role. <snip>
I agree....
This is because later on, you really need to work together to get past even tougher dungeons. This is a very social game and these dungeons ensure that we do not spend the entire game soloing.
While I enjoy sololing, I often tend to shy away from squads but I had to admit that when I do squad up, I enjoy it ...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ninja_Dagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »u seena buncha lvl 50s take down jewel? lol
No, not during my days. But this is probably due to hyperoraclefcingbh that made leveling so quick players won't go for the best gears avaliable. Rarely do you see players below level 70 with a piece of refined armour.0 -
*glances at someone killing a Snowman and picking up a Celestone of Human*
I...I can see that ...Venomancers/Clerics rock![SIGPIC]http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/110/1/5/Schrodinger_plz_by_McMonster_Ridgeback.gif[/SIGPIC]
Alt main: Traydor_Styx - RT - 960 -
Ryiah - Heavens Tear wrote: »A balanced full squad definitely. It even helps if they're not utterly clueless when it comes to what the boss has for special attacks. Also Jewelscalen is particularly nasty for the quest level.
On several instances or rare chance on my low lv alt, i squad with a wonder full cleric, awesome bm, and smart archer. b:bye My self just a mere wizard. b:chuckle
BH39 these squad of 5x (max x = 7) can do it. (me myself surprised)
Other times before was in bh 29 squad full of assassin in total of 3 and 1 cleric. The 3x assassin and my self (assassin as well) switch tanking qingzi and thx to great cleric. (only have great weapon though her armor is . . b:chuckle)
There other but usually it because of wasting charm or smart higher lv caster than the instance or boss mob.
I think first round players just do it together in mas number even when not doing it as a squad . . just think something of jewel is just like how you handle world boss.b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...0 -
well many of u suggested it can be done with good clerics and stuffs. but i say it jst 1 hitted both the clerics that was there along with the bms and sins. the barb was left with 20% hp which it took away in the sucessive attack. the feeling was like many flies were trying to kill a giant and it jst swatted all of them with a newspaper. i can make ppls live if they can at least survive 3-4 hits. but that was simply insane. neither can i dodge the aoe. i have lvl 10 ih so i was at 26.5m away yet got hit. also i have max lvl of purify for me but it doesnt have that range so i do need to get closer. so i dont see any chance of my survivality or the fellow cleric. i really dont get it how can it be done with same lvl group.
same issue happened with the 75 lvl barb. i got 1 shotted at the max functionable range. i was lucky in the third go with the barb lvl 90. for some reason i lived with a lot of hp in first aoe and lived with 10% in the second aoe. but after that it went silent.
i also did general feng. it was no problem coz at 26.5m it cant hit u with aoe. but jewel was on a whole other level.0 -
[QUOTE=ChopChop - Raging Tide;11570562 Learn to fight Jewels and you will learn the tactic for boss's you will get later on e.g Krimson is very similar but imho requires better group work .[/QUOTE]
i have done krimson already. it was a total bs. 10k exp for that nasty ****. what kind of idiocy is that? i though admit it was a lvl 89 sin without whose help big eye of doom wouldnt be possible for us to kill.he made a good work of it really fast.
this in fact was my point. that whats the deal with needing 80+ peeps to do lvl 50 work. hard is ok. but this is simply insane difficulty. i say this for i have played many mmo to epic lvls but this game is sure pushing my skills to the limit. i almost felt like im playing epic lvl bosses from my other games jst for some pathetic exp.0 -
Azezoc - Archosaur wrote: »I started this game a month ago and i jst have a weird feeling about it. is itme or is the dungeons here too tough for the lvl they are actually given to?
just asking this after playing because every boss quest that i get seems way way too hard for the level its given. For instance... few days ago i got this Jewelscalen. i tried to round up a similar level full team where everone had this quest. and w0w the wyrm jst one shotted every single player in the party in jst 1 hit aoe. so i asked a lvl 75 barb to help. he as well went down in the glory of battlefield and everyone left. it is at last that a lvl 90 barb helped when i suceeded. so my question is jst ... if the boss is simply not meant to be done by the lvl player its given to why give it at all at such low lvl? same thing with the dungeon instances. very very hard with similiar lvl peeps. worst of all the rewards arnt worth the effort as well.
back before BH/packs/blahblah we would do jewels for guildies with a squad of high 6x. he really isnt that hard if you know what to do. heck I have watched a low 8x arcane cleric freakin solo Jewels (again before BH and the overabundance of mold gear).
also .......I want to hear what you say after your fb69 b:sin[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Obly - Dreamweaver wrote: »@Ninja_Dagger in the old days, yes.
@KrittyKat yeah that was always my asumption as well, however, the game recent speed up in game changes should have made the devs realize that the old motives 2 do FB's and Bosses are no longer valid.
FB's generally gave rep and exp, now hypers and rep sales do that.
Bosses, euhm just 2 help out, but with the current cash shop orientated PWI, the helpfullness of players has decreased, ALOT!
This means, time for change....let bosses drop gears (Usefull ones, not 3* npc ****)
Introduce new collection quests where Rank gear can be matched with alternative gears. Make higher end bosses drop gems and sockets stones.
Increase the amount of options 2 obtain mysterious chips.
Well i could go on for about an hour, on how you could reformat the game's mechanics 2 a solid F2P game. Contact me if you want a more precise list on how I would reformat the game, instead of just adding useless new cash ****.
This. Ive seen alot of good suggestions on ways they can improve the game. Hopefully pwi will see a few and implement them.0 -
Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »Most of the instances can be done with a full squad of toons around the level of the instance. Think about what the first people on the server did... waited till 60 to run their fb39? lol no. It takes alot longer, and takes more preparation, but it can be done. Anyways if it were easy, how much fun would that be b:chuckle
Yeah. But, It actually doesn't even take a full Squad. A level 50 Barbarian and Cleric can handle they're own FB 51 with just the two of them, The Barbarian can actually handle the elites themselves. It's just a bit difficult depending on your Class and what is it that you're killing. I've always been able to do my 20.20.20 myself, And if needed, Earthflame to lure mobs if you can't handle more then one at at time. But, An Arcane Class trying to an Instance alone if the mobs are physical will be really tough, Elemental mobs however, They can general handle alone. Anyways, I don't really feel Instances are too tough for the level given, It just depends on your Class and what mobs or Instance and gear you're currently using. 3-Star Gear has always been enough for me by the way.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Azezoc - Archosaur wrote: »i have done krimson already. it was a total bs. 10k exp for that nasty ****. what kind of idiocy is that? i though admit it was a lvl 89 sin without whose help big eye of doom wouldnt be possible for us to kill.he made a good work of it really fast.
this in fact was my point. that whats the deal with needing 80+ peeps to do lvl 50 work. hard is ok. but this is simply insane difficulty. i say this for i have played many mmo to epic lvls but this game is sure pushing my skills to the limit. i almost felt like im playing epic lvl bosses from my other games jst for some pathetic exp.
Actually, one of the funny moments in PWI was seeing a high level BM trying to tank Krimson, every time he was killed, he was asking for a new buff and after the buff was given the cycle repeated over and over. LOL
Many of those bosses are not worth doing, you try to explain that to the person with the quest and they don't want to believe you (I was one of them LOL).
Some are just plain stupid. For instance in FB69, I forgot which boss is it but you have to stay far away in your own FB since you cant take the AOE. Saying that, people are more FB educated these days thanks to the BH.
After FB69, everything is way easier than before.0 -
Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »Actually, one of the funny moments in PWI was seeing a high level BM trying to tank Krimson, every time he was killed, he was asking for a new buff and after the buff was given the cycle repeated over and over. LOL
Many of those bosses are not worth doing, you try to explain that to the person with the quest and they don't want to believe you (I was one of them LOL).
Some are just plain stupid. For instance in FB69, I forgot which boss is it but you have to stay far away in your own FB since you cant take the AOE. Saying that, people are more FB educated these days thanks to the BH.
After FB69, everything is way easier than before.
Polearm, Gaurnob,And Noxtouch Culler aoe. But Noxtouch Culler isn't so bad lol just wood damage over-time. Yeah most aren't worth doing, Lots of effort and not enough reward for it. Sometimes though, I have nothing else to do. So I might get a quick boss quest done anyways for the small reward but usually no. Actually, I don't do FB anymore either. FBs don't give much, It's actually the Call to Duty Tokens that give the most, And most players won't help with an FB unless the quest holder is going to tab so they can get a reward. So, I just do my Cultivation then maybe get new skills. Unless the skills just aren't useful for me.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Azezoc - Archosaur wrote: »well many of u suggested it can be done with good clerics and stuffs. but i say it jst 1 hitted both the clerics that was there along with the bms and sins. the barb was left with 20% hp which it took away in the sucessive attack. the feeling was like many flies were trying to kill a giant and it jst swatted all of them with a newspaper. i can make ppls live if they can at least survive 3-4 hits. but that was simply insane. neither can i dodge the aoe. i have lvl 10 ih so i was at 26.5m away yet got hit. also i have max lvl of purify for me but it doesnt have that range so i do need to get closer. so i dont see any chance of my survivality or the fellow cleric. i really dont get it how can it be done with same lvl group.
same issue happened with the 75 lvl barb. i got 1 shotted at the max functionable range. i was lucky in the third go with the barb lvl 90. for some reason i lived with a lot of hp in first aoe and lived with 10% in the second aoe. but after that it went silent.
i also did general feng. it was no problem coz at 26.5m it cant hit u with aoe. but jewel was on a whole other level.
The old arrangement for jewel is usually with the main cleric healing/purifying the tank, and a second cleric healing the main cleric. However it would be a problem since you're getting one-shotted. A well-timed plume shell or apothecary powder may help.0 -
Clandore - Lost City wrote: »The old arrangement for jewel is usually with the main cleric healing/purifying the tank, and a second cleric healing the main cleric. However it would be a problem since you're getting one-shotted. A well-timed plume shell or apothecary powder may help.
Plume Shell only works for Physical Attacks though a lot of players don't seem to realize that. I've found Dew of Rival Protection to work good for my Cleric though. But, Level 75 Barbarian? I've seen Level 75 Barbarian's solo it. As well as Slitt and a couple other bosses. A Level 70 Blademaster can solo General Feng if has a couple remedies or charm. Well, At least mine did. http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=60521 [The pictures were deleted it seems.][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
They really aren't tough at all. In fact, I remember running non-stop FB19s from level 20 to 24 back when the game was only a month or two old. It was a very fast way to level at the time because virtually the entire server was doing it all in one week or so.XauroraRAIN - Dreamweaver wrote: »I don't really feel Instances are too tough for the level given, It just depends on your Class and what mobs or Instance and gear you're currently using. 3-Star Gear has always been enough for me by the way.
Anyways, we just randomly formed groups. There wasn't even necessarily a cleric or a dedicated tank. Some cases we had two or more venomancers trying to heal a magmite (herc wasn't available at the time) through the boss. And I guarantee you none of us were properly geared. I'd be surprised if anyone had even 3-stars.
My FB39 was solo tanked by a level 60 blademaster. He might have had 3-stars with TT60 axes, but I doubt any of it was overly refined. Maybe to +1 or +2, but definitely not to the degree available now. And certainly not with expensive gems.0 -
Sorry wrong Quote. I can't edit.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Awesome. I remember a Level 30 Cleric doing an FB19 for Human. =]Ryiah - Heavens Tear wrote: »They really aren't tough at all. In fact, I remember running non-stop FB19s from level 20 to 24 back when the game was only a month or two old. It was a very fast way to level at the time because virtually the entire server was doing it all in one week or so.
Anyways, we just randomly formed groups. There wasn't even necessarily a cleric or a dedicated tank. Some cases we had two or more venomancers trying to heal a magmite (herc wasn't available at the time) through the boss. And I guarantee you none of us were properly geared. I'd be surprised if anyone had even 3-stars.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I know that Jewels can be done at level for one simple reason: I did it. Everyone in the squad had the quest except the barb. 3 Clerics (2 on the barb and me healing those 2), one barb and one crazy bm.
As for getting oneshotted, you might want to look at your gear for that. Neither of the clerics that were in aoe range went down by more than half.0 -
XauroraRAIN - Dreamweaver wrote: »Plume Shell only works for Physical Attacks though a lot of players don't seem to realize that. I've found Dew of Rival Protection to work good for my Cleric though. But, Level 75 Barbarian? I've seen Level 75 Barbarian's solo it. As well as Slitt and a couple other bosses. A Level 70 Blademaster can solo General Feng if has a couple remedies or charm. Well, At least mine did. http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=60521 [The pictures were deleted it seems.]
Ugh I guess I never really looked up whether the AoE was magic or not. Although I hope that the cleric isn't being one shot by a magic AoE attack =.=0 -
Clandore - Lost City wrote: »Ugh I guess I never really looked up whether the AoE was magic or not. Although I hope that the cleric isn't being one shot by a magic AoE attack =.=
I never checked either. But I do know that boss is Metal Element so It's possible the aoe is too but not sure. I remember when my Cleric was level 65 healing a Barbarian for a friend, The aoe did do a lot of damage for my Cleric but not a one-hit kill lol. And I was just using armor from a Tailor with quest reward ornaments.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Bosses arent hard, ppl just badly geared. Back in the days when there were no packs, well, people likely werent even that well geared but not everything was asked to be handed on silverplate. Heck, anybody remember when flawless shards were OP? I should play on my archer on DW someday, I bet his 80ish behind isn`t geared too well. I remember 3k hp being some sort of limit for gamma, I hope it was unbuffed =/. Oh well, my point is, people just dont know how to play their toons, they have been rushed by high lvls trough everything and with current leveling speed, getting any armor pre lvl 70 feels a waste. In the old days it was expected ppl gather mats to craft armors/weps for them, nowdays they just hyper/oracle so fast trough lvls it`s pointless to waste any effort on gear pre 70.Trolling Sid since So Hot
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Jewel does physical damage only.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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I'm relatively sure that the aoe is physical. He also does a pdef reducing debuff that you might need to purify.
I do think that if you're being 1shot it's a gear problem. Make sure you're wearing pdef ornaments (you should always do that anyway) and up to level gear, if possible with +pdef modifiers (+HP or +vit works too). Plume shell doesn't do much except kill your mana if your base pdef sucks.
The barb should be wearing up to level gear as well. Sins need to use a bow if they want to attack at all. Possibly BMs too if they're squishy. Ranged classes stay at max range. Tell everyone who's not the tank they need to pot if they take damage because you won't have time to heal them too if you're the only cleric. If you have a second cleric, have them heal you from out of aoe range while you heal the tank.
All in all, if everyone knows what they're doing and has decent gear it should work with a same level squad. Jewel's one of the more challenging bosses though.0 -
You can definitely do everything up to at least lvl 80ish with just a Barbarian and Cleric of the same level you get the quest at. Don't be afraid to add some vit on your cleric so you can survive the nastier AoEs and take care of your gear (I'm not talking upgrading it, but at least something better than regular store bought stuff). Only didn't do fb 59 with just Cleric + Barb because it just took too frigging long b:surrender0
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