Who got more def n atk ??? Psy o Wiz

conganh21
conganh21 Posts: 1 Arc User
edited January 2011 in Wizard
Both pure magic, with same gears, etc... who gonna get more def n atk with their own buff? psy or wiz. I believe it Wiz but ppl keeping tell me it's psy, kinda confused
Post edited by conganh21 on
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  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Defense-wise:
    psy in sage white voodoo > psy in white voodoo >* wiz with demon stone barrier > wiz with stone barrier > psy in demon black voodoo > psy in black voodoo

    *debatable:
    better if pdef<7k against physical attacks,
    better if earth mdef <10k against earth attacks.
    better for the rest of attacks.

    (edit)
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Defense-wise:
    psy in sage white voodoo > psy in white voodoo >* wiz with sage stone barrier > wiz with stone barrier > psy in demon black voodoo > psy in black voodoo

    *debatable

    where is demon stone barrier?
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • conganh21
    conganh21 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    the demon stone barrier add 150% p.def is alot stronger than the sage white voodoo add 71 def lvl
  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    where is demon stone barrier?

    woops i meant demon stone barrier. fixed.
    can i get my 8jun top eeer oht top off now?
    conganh21 wrote: »
    the demon stone barrier add 150% p.def is alot stronger than the sage white voodoo add 71 def lvl

    that's why i put a little star that said "debatable"

    the barrier boosts only pdef (and earth def [lets not forgt diminishing returns though]).
    ofc i ur base pdef is low stone barrier would be better against pattacks.
    if ur base pdef is high (like >5k) i think that 71 def levels would be better.

    too bored to play with para's calc atm though.

    generally, stone barrier is a million times better than white voodoo cause it doesnt have it's drawbacks ofc
  • conganh21
    conganh21 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    woops i meant demon stone barrier. fixed.
    can i get my 8jun top eeer oht top off now?



    that's why i put a little star that said "debatable"

    the barrier boosts only pdef (and earth def [lets not forgt diminishing returns though]).
    ofc i ur base pdef is low stone barrier would be better against pattacks.
    if ur base pdef is high (like >5k) i think that 71 def levels would be better.

    too bored to play with para's calc atm though.

    generally, stone barrier is a million times better than white voodoo cause it doesnt have it's drawbacks ofc

    So if ur base is over 5k the stone barrier could be better, it may bring up ur p.def to 13k p.def that sound good :D
  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    conganh21 wrote: »
    So if ur base is over 5k the stone barrier could be better, it may bring up ur p.def to 13k p.def that sound good :D

    assuming 5k pdef, 5k hp, 9k mdef:
    to die with stone barrier the raw hit should be:
    16.5k physical
    12.4k magical
    22.7k earth magic

    white voodoo:
    17.5k physical
    24k magical

    so sage white voodoo is superior.
    even with 3k pdef it's still better, same with 1k pdef (kinda bored copying numbers)
    stone barrier gets better after ~7k base pdef (therefore my original assumption was wrong)
    for earth damage it is better after ~10k earth defense
  • Mrvate - Heavens Tear
    Mrvate - Heavens Tear Posts: 406 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    the barrier boosts only pdef (and earth def [lets not forgt diminishing returns though]).
    ofc i ur base pdef is low stone barrier would be better against pattacks.
    if ur base pdef is high (like >5k) i think that 71 def levels would be better.

    too bored to play with para's calc atm though.

    generally, stone barrier is a million times better than white voodoo cause it doesnt have it's drawbacks ofc

    Just to throw it out there, pdef doesn't suffer a true diminishing return. Def. lvl on the other hand does.
  • conganh21
    conganh21 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    assuming 5k pdef, 5k hp, 9k mdef:
    to die with stone barrier the raw hit should be:
    16.5k physical
    12.4k magical
    22.7k earth magic

    white voodoo:
    17.5k physical
    24k magical

    so sage white voodoo is superior.
    even with 3k pdef it's still better, same with 1k pdef (kinda bored copying numbers)
    stone barrier gets better after ~7k base pdef (therefore my original assumption was wrong)
    for earth damage it is better after ~10k earth defense

    but white voodoo reduce ur damage :O
  • conganh21
    conganh21 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Mrvate - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Just to throw it out there, pdef doesn't suffer a true diminishing return. Def. lvl on the other hand does.

    wat? p.def is useless, Def.lvl better :O >.<

    so at the end psy beat wiz?
  • Galox - Heavens Tear
    Galox - Heavens Tear Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Think of it this way:

    A Psychic can have more Defence than a Wizard, but will Sacrifice Attack Power in order to do so.

    A Psychic can have more Attack than a Wizard, but will Sacrifice Defensive Power in order to do so.

    A common argument is, "If your in White Voodoo (Defensive) you don't do enough damage to kill me. If your in Black Voodoo (Offensive) you die in one shot."

    While I don't completely agree with the statement, it highlights the drawbacks of having massive defences or attacks.

    A Wizard has 3 barriers, mind you, not just Stone Barrier; although Stone Barrier is the most commonly used. A Wizards defences can be enhanced without any drawbacks.

    I don't care what people say about Black Voodoo,
    Wizards = More Damage per Hit, or Skill,
    Psychic = More Damage Per Second.

    For Psychics to get even NEAR the Damage Per Hit of a Wizard, it would be massively sacrificing Defence. However, Psychics will always out DPS Wizards, (Unless maybe you had like -69% Channelling or something Mad like that)

    Or Just roll a 5APS class. More Defence and Attack there hehe :P
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] b:victory
  • HexOmega - Dreamweaver
    HexOmega - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,342 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    conganh21 wrote: »
    So if ur base is over 5k the stone barrier could be better, it may bring up ur p.def to 13k p.def that sound good :D

    5k base def unbuffed xd?
    need some awesome gear there, or garnet sharding, meaning less HP or potential def lvl sharding

    personally i wouldnt go for more then 10k selfbuffedpdef, isnt it there where dimishing returns start? someone said that >:>
    thinking that ur mostly cleric buffed too and have a BM buff in TW
    i like potato
  • conganh21
    conganh21 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Galox - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Think of it this way:

    A Psychic can have more Defence than a Wizard, but will Sacrifice Attack Power in order to do so.

    A Psychic can have more Attack than a Wizard, but will Sacrifice Defensive Power in order to do so.

    A common argument is, "If your in White Voodoo (Defensive) you don't do enough damage to kill me. If your in Black Voodoo (Offensive) you die in one shot."

    While I don't completely agree with the statement, it highlights the drawbacks of having massive defences or attacks.

    A Wizard has 3 barriers, mind you, not just Stone Barrier; although Stone Barrier is the most commonly used. A Wizards defences can be enhanced without any drawbacks.

    I don't care what people say about Black Voodoo,
    Wizards = More Damage per Hit, or Skill,
    Psychic = More Damage Per Second.

    the thing about psy hit almost as hard as wiz sound good but i dont like the voodoo, if the psy damage is as good as wiz, im 100% for one thing psy'def is not even half of the wiz'def
  • conganh21
    conganh21 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Galox - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Think of it this way:

    A Psychic can have more Defence than a Wizard, but will Sacrifice Attack Power in order to do so.

    A Psychic can have more Attack than a Wizard, but will Sacrifice Defensive Power in order to do so.

    A common argument is, "If your in White Voodoo (Defensive) you don't do enough damage to kill me. If your in Black Voodoo (Offensive) you die in one shot."

    While I don't completely agree with the statement, it highlights the drawbacks of having massive defences or attacks.

    A Wizard has 3 barriers, mind you, not just Stone Barrier; although Stone Barrier is the most commonly used. A Wizards defences can be enhanced without any drawbacks.

    I don't care what people say about Black Voodoo,
    Wizards = More Damage per Hit, or Skill,
    Psychic = More Damage Per Second.

    For Psychics to get even NEAR the Damage Per Hit of a Wizard, it would be massively sacrificing Defence. However, Psychics will always out DPS Wizards, (Unless maybe you had like -69% Channelling or something Mad like that)

    Or Just roll a 5APS class. More Defence and Attack there hehe :P

    Im 100% for sure that with black voodoo, psy's def is not even half of the wiz's def, n their damage is just almost as good as wiz. Sry Psyb:bye
  • Sirrobert - Dreamweaver
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,395 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Funny how the psy's go shout that in PvP, a psy with white vodoo beats a wizy with stone shield.

    I'd like to see you kill someone with white vodoo on

    PSY: "You noob wizzy, when i want to kill someone I put black vodoo on"
    Rest of the world: "But than you will have lost your defences, and get 1shot from gush"
    9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris
  • conganh21
    conganh21 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Funny how the psy's go shout that in PvP, a psy with white vodoo beats a wizy with stone shield.

    I'd like to see you kill someone with white vodoo on

    PSY: "You noob wizzy, when i want to kill someone I put black vodoo on"
    Rest of the world: "But than you will have lost your defences, and get 1shot from gush"

    How do u kill some1 with -99 Atk lvl ???
  • toliman
    toliman Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    conganh21 wrote: »
    Galox - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Think of it this way:

    A Psychic can have more Defence than a Wizard, but will Sacrifice Attack Power in order to do so.

    A Psychic can have more Attack than a Wizard, but will Sacrifice Defensive Power in order to do so.

    A common argument is, "If your in White Voodoo (Defensive) you don't do enough damage to kill me. If your in Black Voodoo (Offensive) you die in one shot."

    While I don't completely agree with the statement, it highlights the drawbacks of having massive defences or attacks.

    A Wizard has 3 barriers, mind you, not just Stone Barrier; although Stone Barrier is the most commonly used. A Wizards defences can be enhanced without any drawbacks.

    I don't care what people say about Black Voodoo,
    Wizards = More Damage per Hit, or Skill,
    Psychic = More Damage Per Second.

    the thing about psy hit almost as hard as wiz sound good but i dont like the voodoo, if the psy damage is as good as wiz, im 100% for one thing psy'def is not even half of the wiz'def

    Im 100% for sure that with black voodoo, psy's def is not even half of the wiz's def, n their damage is just almost as good as wiz. Sry Psy

    When was your Wizard in squad with Psychic ?

    I saw how fast can Psyhic get agro of boss, how fast he can kill mobs near me.

    My only hope was good knowledge of Wizard's skills and best possible equipment.

    Please, calculate yourself, what damage can inflict Psychic per hit and what damage can inflict Wizard per hit.

    Don't forget, that Psychic has same masteries as Wizard.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Funny how the psy's go shout that in PvP, a psy with white vodoo beats a wizy with stone shield.

    I'd like to see you kill someone with white vodoo on

    PSY: "You noob wizzy, when i want to kill someone I put black vodoo on"
    Rest of the world: "But than you will have lost your defences, and get 1shot from gush"

    good thing psys dont have some kinda of long stun with a lowish spark cost...b:chuckle
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    i never said that psy in white voodoo > wiz in stone barrier.
    i said that for certain values of pdef (<7k) the defense of white voodoo is better than the defense of stone barrier.
    meaning that if tank dies the psy will have a better chance of keeping the boss busy instead of the wizzie.

    both pdef and defense levels have diminishing returns.

    conganh21 wrote: »
    How do u kill some1 with -69 Atk lvl ???

    jones blessing
    i heard that soulburn works quite nice on those 5aps and IHing clerics b:avoid
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    good thing psys dont have some kinda of long stun with a lowish spark cost...b:chuckle

    i also heard that they removed the physical immunity buff b:avoid
  • Galox - Heavens Tear
    Galox - Heavens Tear Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Hm, another thing to mention is:

    Psychics "White Voodoo" affects ALL there defences, since it increases Defence Level directly. (Unless I am mistaken, I'm assuming that say a defence level of 10 means that all damage will be reduced by 10%). A Wizards "Stone Barrier" only boosts it's Earth and Physical resistances, but has absolutely no drawbacks.

    Just to throw something else in there, Distance Shrink. I've found it much more useful in a PvP/Duel situation, but it is an incredibly effective Offensive AND Defensive skill against Physical attackers (Probably excluding Assassins; but we all know they don't exist, anyways)

    I've left mine at level 9 purely because the range on my level 7 Glacial Snare matches the distance you gain from Shrink almost perfectly; I don't want to have to run closer to use a skill. It shoots you out of danger, and majority of the time, lets you cast at least a Gush. Don't neglect Distance Shrink as a Defensive skill.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] b:victory
  • Regenbogen - Lost City
    Regenbogen - Lost City Posts: 1,559 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    you forgot wizards elemental shell which adds 1000% magdef for 4sec b:laugh
    i am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss
  • Sirrobert - Dreamweaver
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,395 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Galox - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Hm, another thing to mention is:

    Psychics "White Voodoo" affects ALL there defences, since it increases Defence Level directly. (Unless I am mistaken, I'm assuming that say a defence level of 10 means that all damage will be reduced by 10%). A Wizards "Stone Barrier" only boosts it's Earth and Physical resistances, but has absolutely no drawbacks.

    Just to throw something else in there, Distance Shrink. I've found it much more useful in a PvP/Duel situation, but it is an incredibly effective Offensive AND Defensive skill against Physical attackers (Probably excluding Assassins; but we all know they don't exist, anyways)

    I've left mine at level 9 purely because the range on my level 7 Glacial Snare matches the distance you gain from Shrink almost perfectly; I don't want to have to run closer to use a skill. It shoots you out of danger, and majority of the time, lets you cast at least a Gush. Don't neglect Distance Shrink as a Defensive skill.

    It's also perfect to break a stunlock
    9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris
  • HexOmega - Dreamweaver
    HexOmega - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,342 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »
    you forgot wizards elemental shell which adds 1000% magdef for 4sec b:laugh

    imo a good starter to buff urself with that before attacking a buffed psy


    oh and im pretty sure psy can kill others in white voodoo, with the special tricks

    aka kill yourself
    i like potato
  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »
    you forgot wizards elemental shell which adds 1000% magdef for 4sec b:laugh

    then i would have to take psychic will which adds immunity to physical attacks for 10sec into consideration as well xD
  • prof
    prof Posts: 1,111
    edited December 2010
    I've never fought a psychic that does more damage to me than I do to them, voodoo or not. this may be because I refine my rings and use some vit stones, but who's to judge? in any case, a psychic compares closer to a cleric, in my opinion.

    I've said in another thread that a psychic compared to a mage would be an extremely defensive mage. honestly, if any class would actually add vit at end game, psychics would benefit from it the most. right next to tanks, of course. their damage feels almost unchanged by the addition of vit, and they have a significant amount of more hp to counter voodoo's lowering of defense.

    again, that's my opinion. i've never actually met a spectacular psychic and I doubt I will unless I stick around for another year.

    the chances are slim.
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    then i would have to take psychic will which adds immunity to physical attacks for 10sec into consideration as well xD

    b:cutethen I would have to say glacial snare crit one shots you as well
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Sirrobert - Dreamweaver
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,395 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    b:cutethen I would have to say glacial snare crit one shots you as well

    4k normal on an arcane without spark anyone? b:cute (we'r talking sage GS right?)
    9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris
  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    b:cutethen I would have to say gush crit one shots you as well

    fixed. wanna try? b:mischievous
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    prof wrote: »
    i've never actually met a spectacular psychic and I doubt I will unless I stick around for another year.

    the chances are slim.

    You must not have a character on Harshlands or Raging Tide then, because each of those servers has a psychic that wreaks havoc on everyone in PvP, the psychics being UrDian and LuciverV respectively
  • prof
    prof Posts: 1,111
    edited December 2010
    I've seen luciver, when I tried to roll a mage on that server with some friends. he's terrible. your standards are too low.
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    4k normal on an arcane without spark anyone? b:cute (we'r talking sage GS right?)
    sage/demon
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    fixed. wanna try? b:mischievous

    b:dirtyyou know it baby
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
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