Fox Form ! LA Vs HA

conganh21

For Fox form is better to wear LA or HA ? n y? wat is the purpose of fox form??b:victory

Evict - Harshlands

I'd say HA is better. Better survivability and stronger hits due to higher Str. The only reason I could see a Veno going LA would be for the crits.

tweakz

Evict - Harshlands wrote: »

I'd say HA is better. Better survivability and stronger hits due to higher Str. The only reason I could see a Veno going LA would be for the crits.

Or Deicides, but then probably not fox form. Crits from dex are no benefit.

Desdi - Sanctuary

In my opinion LA works great if you are able to achieve a high critical hit rate so that it can make up for the damage you lose (low magic attack, low physical attack). That's how old Venomancers did it before HA guides started appearing.
LA is a viable build but you have to use dex, which has not benefit for a Venomancer and that's why stacking critical hit equipment would be nice.

HA will have you use a lot of Str and that will make your attack in fox form stronger. You'll also be able to switch equipment (HA to AA, AA to HA). Of course that's possible with LA too but with HA and AA you can get max physical defence and max magical defence for your Venomancer. With HA you'll also have more HP, most likely, due to the refines. HA refines give more HP than AA refines. All that at the cost of your magical damage. Though, it will not be a huge difference but you'll certainly not reach some "insane" numbers.

Personally, I used LA on my second Venomancer ( Devayen )just to introduce myself in this melee-fox-form-world (because I went arcane with Desdi, aiming for magical spike damage). I restated to HA at lvl 70. It was a little sooner (recommended levels being 90+) but I did see a difference, for the best, just as I had expected.

Myrrmidonna - Dreamweaver

I'm LA mainly-humanform, but I do foxform from time to time, just for some versality of gameplay. LA is good for me, as I cast most of the time, and rely on my m-atk damage. If I were pure-fox, I'd go HA, or even better HA/AA hybrid, as it gives you best possible total defs and survivability. I plan to restat to that build in my 9x anyway.
HA/AA beats LA in every aspect stat-wise, hp-wise, def-wise and so on. You'd just need a lot of +mag equipment (other than your weapon) to be able to equip a higher-lvl weapon, though. I'm not sure if getting your mag high enogh to equip your level magi-sword is even possible...

tweakz

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

LA is a viable build but you have to use dex, which has not benefit for a Venomancer and that's why stacking critical hit equipment would be nice.

Do you understand that you get less dmg per crit than HA? There's only been 1 single justification I've seen for LA, and that's if you have multiple toons sharing equips.

Allynna_ - Dreamweaver

Always heard that people recomment LA for the earlier levels, then go HA/AA towards the later levels as HA isn't as viable at the lower levels. (harder to get +stat gear, or decent gear for what you can use)

Wouldn't LA hit harder with magic than a HA build, as the HA build would have minimal magic, or an outdated weapon? Of course HA would hit harder in fox form, but they would also have half the accuracy of a LA build (Veno actually get Acuracy/Evasion from Dex, unlike other Magic classes =o)

tweakz

Allynna_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wouldn't LA hit harder with magic than a HA build, as the HA build would have minimal magic, or an outdated weapon? Of course HA would hit harder in fox form, but they would also have half the accuracy of a LA build (Veno actually get Acuracy/Evasion from Dex, unlike other Magic classes =o)

There's no point in being mediocre at both matk and patk when you primarily use one or the other. There's also little point to LA in earlier levels when they fly by and you end up having to pay for resets.

Allynna_ - Dreamweaver

How low is low level though, and when is the best time to switch over? Not to mention I have a pile of extremely good LA to use for my Veno as I level.

Also, never found the lower levels to fly by as a Veno, only level 47 after like 3-4 monthes Dx

Aniella - Harshlands

I have tested LA,HA,AA on privat server as tt90 ...

well HA is good but u will not have good mag atk XD but u get more crit tho XD

La give low mag def and a bit higer Pdef then AA. so mag classes - and patk classes , can easy kill u . unless u have good gear. sad u need 2 use Hp in gear XD.
- Never like LA so much tho XD But im sure u can be pro w LA 2.

Laranda - Heavens Tear

Allynna_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How low is low level though, and when is the best time to switch over? Not to mention I have a pile of extremely good LA to use for my Veno as I level.

If memory serves, it's around Lv90 to switch to HA. Switching at Lv80 would be fine too. It was in that general range. Depends upon what gear you have to boost stats.

Allynna_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wouldn't LA hit harder with magic than a HA build, as the HA build would have minimal magic, or an outdated weapon? Of course HA would hit harder in fox form, but they would also have half the accuracy of a LA build (Veno actually get Acuracy/Evasion from Dex, unlike other Magic classes =o)

Yes and no. In order to equip HA and a Magic Weapon without +stat gear, one has to use armor 2 ranks below current gear or a magic weapon 2 ranks below current. Which one is below current decides if HA's spells are weaker than Light's.

tweakz wrote:

There's also little point to LA in earlier levels when they fly by and you end up having to pay for resets.

Pretty much only Arcane doesn't have to worry about resetting stats. If someone wants to level with something other than Arcane, this is pretty much a moot point.

gelnd

Laranda - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes and no. In order to equip HA and a Magic Weapon without +stat gear, one has to use armor 2 ranks below current gear or a magic weapon 2 ranks below current. Which one is below current decides if HA's spells are weaker than Light's.

I was under the impression that with suitable +stat gear, it's possible to wield current levels for both? I may be wrong tho, because I'm not HA/AA myself, and only level 61... so I ask out of curiosity to clarify, not certainty to correct.

Laranda wrote:

Pretty much only Arcane doesn't have to worry about resetting stats. If someone wants to level with something other than Arcane, this is pretty much a moot point.

Though some may choose to stat vit into mag, once they get more HP refines... or so I've heard. ^_^ And why would LA need to restat, unless using LA as transitional build to go HA later?

Laranda - Heavens Tear

gelnd wrote: »

I was under the impression that with suitable +stat gear, it's possible to wield current levels for both? I may be wrong tho, because I'm not HA/AA myself, and only level 61... so I ask out of curiosity to clarify, not certainty to correct.

Yes.

What I wrote was without those boosts. For leveling, it's pretty hard to get enough stat boosts to support heavy until endgame. o.o

gelnd wrote: »

Though some may choose to stat vit into mag, once they get more HP refines... or so I've heard. ^_^ And why would LA need to restat, unless using LA as transitional build to go HA later?

Either to go to HA or to shift points from one stat into another for better performance. LA doesn't need to restat for gear.

gelnd

Ah, my bad. I was skimming several threads at once, at missed the "without" in your text. Thanks for clarifying. ^_^

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

conganh21 wrote: »

For Fox form is better to wear LA or HA ? n y? wat is the purpose of fox form??b:victory

It depends on your play style and depends on the gear/defenses/attacks you prefer, as well as how much you plan on spending, as well as if you already have another character on the same account with stuff you can easily transfer over.

I've had my veno on her own account for over a year and a half and she was a vit AA build until 90 then switched to HA. HA is initially expensive to switch to but it's actually not very expensive to maintain once you're this level. Additionally, since you need to use a magic weapon you can still do a decent amount of magic damage, and can switch into arcane.

On the other hand, the approach one should have beforehand is geared toward both damage and survivability, as well as cutting costs to help save up money. A simple pure magic AA or vit AA build should suffice until later, provided you are on a PVE server. PVP servers have a little more to worry about so it's pretty popular for them to be LA early on.

They both have their own benefits.

I'm making a second veno once farming for my sin is complete, and she will be on the same account as my sin, and will be a LA build (sharing most gear with the sin). I've already statted her out for a lazy fox/human build:

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=617462cb55e55af3

She won't have an insane amount of channeling (can switch to channeling rings/orns if need be) but will do a very good amount of physical and magic damage, supplemented by sage fox form/melee mastery/wood mastery) a good crit rate, and 2.22 base APS (good combo w/frenzy or windshield). Just something to think about.

Tuli - Raging Tide

This is my HA build atm. http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=359bc517671cb52c

i do nice damage as a caster and nice damage as a mellee.

my channeling is enough to keep herc alive in most cases, but don't expect to tank hard bosses (wb, tt3-x).

My Pdef is awsome and grinding cost me 0 pots when i spam leech/Consume spirit.

i am currently working on getting enough stat points to ditch the belt and go for tt99 Mdef belt and Nirvana sword, not sure if it can be done without a higher tome tho.

Edit: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=e77fb6faa38e1f95 gonna need at least a lvl 5 tome